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Jazlina
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know there are a lot of different opinions about this, but the changes that I have seen are not good and in the end I feel I came out the loser by far.
I own a Hulk and have been using it for a while. With the changes the only thing that lets the hulk stand out is having 3 strip miners. Thats it. In every respect the mack or sciff are better now. Be it carrying capacity, speed, cargo hold etc...
Before the patch I had a hold of 13.5km3, now my hold is 8.. Cargo expanders no longer work on ore cargo holds, only general cargo. This means I have to make 33% more trips back to base than I did before which in my reckoning is a net LOSS in isk/hour than before.
On top of this, I apparantly am not the only one to think so. In the markets the value of a hulk is plummeting and the value of the mack and skiff is skyrocketing. As of today the Mack is selling for more than the hulk in amarr space and the skiff is very close. The hulk is selling for about 30% less than it was pre-patch.
Can anyone else justify these changes? I feel like I was just mugged and then told it was all for my good.... |
Frostys Virpio
Profit's Prophets Strategic Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Gizan wrote:I want my damn cargo space back so i can put more then 9 freaking crystals inside its cargo! having to warp back to station while jetcan mining to swap crystals is BS... The hulk is a fleet ship. Work in a fleet of change ship. How damn hard is it to understand?
Quoting myself cuz fitting. |
Equus
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
37
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
When will people stop with this BS, the hulk is fine, they gave ships a role now. You want to mine by yourself and run to a station when your hold is full? Use a Mack. You want to mine in a fleet, especially an Orca boosted fleet with people/alts to haul ore? Hulk is still king.
Hulk = max yield. Mack = max ore bay. Skiff = max tankage.
You have to make a choice on what ship is best for your given situation, there is no longer one exhumer to rule them all. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2591
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
The purpose of the change was to make all mining ships good at something. From what you describe it seems to be a huge success. The problem seems to be, that the Hulk isn't the best at everything anymore and you're having trouble adjusting to this new reality. It's ok to fly other ships, if you think they're better at what you want to do. You just need to ask yourself what it is, that you value the most in your mining ship. Make that choice and what ship to use will become obvious. |
CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
154
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jazlina wrote:Same invalid complaints as numerous other threads.
The exhumers and barges are balanced. Each has a niche and role to fill. Just because the HULK is no longer king of the hill, lots of folk who can't adapt seem to be crying. These changes were made public long enough to allow miners to plan ahead, build up their new fleets as needed, and carry on smartly.
Obviously not everyone was able to adhere to the 'smartly' part. The short bus is coming and will pick you up eventually.
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Malsavias Toralen
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
18
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.
The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.
But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.
So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus. |
Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative
60
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Feel lucky. You should see what they did to my Tormentor! |
Frostys Virpio
Profit's Prophets Strategic Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malsavias Toralen wrote:Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.
The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.
But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.
So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus.
It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1957
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm totally in favor of people fitting up no tank max yield hulks. They either get ganked or they drive the price of minerals down. Either way I win.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Malsavias Toralen
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
18
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Malsavias Toralen wrote:Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.
The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.
But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.
So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus. It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield.
It is IF it can be decently defended, so it can fit 2 MLU II's if not it has to be tanked or you risk losing a 200 million ISK ship. But with the hassle of getting a fleet op together when I can take my three accounts load up three retrievers with 3 MLU II"s and only lose 2% yield compared to the tanked hulk, which is the easier, simpler and faster option?
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Metal Icarus
Endless Destruction
251
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
I tried out the new t1 barges and I still say that the hulk is fine. Now it is not a SOLO miner. If you are used using it as such and are still using it that way, you are doing it wrong.
Hulk is best used with orca support (boosting and ore hold) hell, it is still best if you have a hauler going back and forth. But when a barge is by itself, or has no hauler supporting the op, the hulk is not the best choice. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
324
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Feel lucky. You should see what they did to my Tormentor!
Have you seen what the plan to do to the inquisitor? My amarr missile frigs will be a turret logi!
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Frostys Virpio
Profit's Prophets Strategic Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malsavias Toralen wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Malsavias Toralen wrote:Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.
The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.
But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.
So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus. It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield. It is IF it can be decently defended, so it can fit 2 MLU II's if not it has to be tanked or you risk losing a 200 million ISK ship. But with the hassle of getting a fleet op together when I can take my three accounts load up three retrievers with 3 MLU II"s and only lose 2% yield compared to the tanked hulk, which is the easier, simpler and faster option?
So the hulk need to be tanked but not the retriever? Why? |
Malsavias Toralen
Kleinrock Heavy Industries Kleinrock Group
18
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Malsavias Toralen wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Malsavias Toralen wrote:Actually with my new 3 retriever set up i'm pulling in 3 times the ISK I was with hulks.
The hulks bonus is yield 25% more at max level.
But if you look at the other barges they all get a bonus to mining laser yield to make it near equive to the hulk.
So I went and traded in that pathetic 8k ore bay for a 25,700 m3 ore bay and disposable retrievers. No worry about gankers in the cheap flying jetcans and I only lost very tiny bit of yield since I don't need to worry about tanking my 10 mill isk ships throw 3 MLU II's and the hulk no longer has a profitable bonus. It does have a worthwhile bonus IF you use it in it's intended role. In a fleet op with hauler support, it's still king of yield. It is IF it can be decently defended, so it can fit 2 MLU II's if not it has to be tanked or you risk losing a 200 million ISK ship. But with the hassle of getting a fleet op together when I can take my three accounts load up three retrievers with 3 MLU II"s and only lose 2% yield compared to the tanked hulk, which is the easier, simpler and faster option? So the hulk need to be tanked but not the retriever? Why?
Because the hulk is still 200 mill in Jita. The retriever is 19 mill. THAT is why the hulk still needs to be tanked and the retriever doesn't. Lose a hulk it's a hefty whack top the wallet, lose a retriever "Hey I just made enough for 3 retrievers in the last hour. |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 21:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oh look. More Hulk tears.
Seriously though, every time something gets changed/nerfed there are people whining. Your Hulk isn't the mining 'I-win' button anymore. Deal with it. |
Warpshade
Warped Industries
18
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Posted - 2012.08.21 22:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hulk changes = Buffed default ore capacity Buffed Tank Still the best ship for yield
Yup that got nerfed alright
The only nerf it received was to it reputation as the only viable T2 Ore mining vessel. If the other vessel's are now better suited to your playstyle, simple sell your hulk, and buy a Mack/Skiff...Profit???
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
485
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Posted - 2012.08.21 22:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
give me all your stuff and isk.. you are too whiny and dumb to play eve. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Tassian Marrix
Spatial Interaction Ltd Sentinel Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.08.22 03:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
At this point i assume all threads about how the hulk was nerfed are just troll threads. |
Frostys Virpio
Profit's Prophets Strategic Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.08.22 05:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Warpshade wrote:Hulk changes = Buffed default ore capacity Buffed Tank Still the best ship for yield Yup that got nerfed alright The only nerf it received was to it reputation as the only viable T2 Ore mining vessel. If the other vessel's are now better suited to your playstyle, simple sell your hulk, and buy a Mack/Skiff...Profit???
They nerfed stupidity power on it tho. You need a much higher level of stupid now to think it's a good idea to fit a hulk with cargo expanders and cargo rigs. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
90
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Posted - 2012.08.22 06:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jazlina wrote:I know there are a lot of different opinions about this, but the changes that I have seen are not good and in the end I feel I came out the loser by far.
I own a Hulk and have been using it for a while. With the changes the only thing that lets the hulk stand out is having 3 strip miners. Thats it. In every respect the mack or sciff are better now. Be it tank, speed, cargo hold etc...
Before the patch I had a hold of 13.5km3, now my hold is 8.5... Cargo expanders no longer work on ore cargo holds, only general cargo. This means I have to make 33% more trips back to base than I did before which in my reckoning is a net LOSS in isk/hour than before.
On top of this, I apparantly am not the only one to think so. In the markets the value of a hulk is plummeting and the value of the mack and skiff is skyrocketing. As of today the Mack is selling for more than the hulk in amarr space and the skiff is very close. The hulk is selling for about 30% less than it was pre-patch.
Can anyone else justify these changes? I feel like I was just mugged and then told it was all for my good....
Well if you want an ore hold then get a mack. Much larger ore hold around 35km3 than what you used to have at13.5km3. And to top it off you can put a much larger tank on your new Mack than what you had on your Hulk and still have the huge ore bay. You will mine about 5% slower than a hulk but the large ore hold and fewer trips will more than offset that.
Quit being fixated on the hulk and adapt. You have a choice that is much better for your use than the hulk is. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
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Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
500
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 06:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
miners are the biggest fuking whiners and moaners anywhere ever... you just got the single biggest mining buff ever due to your constant bitching and now youre complaining about a minor nerf to cargo capacity on a ship that should be mining directly into a can/orca??? i mean are you for real?!??!
fk me sideways.... |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
152
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Posted - 2012.08.22 06:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:miners are the biggest fuking whiners and moaners anywhere ever... you just got the single biggest mining buff ever due to your constant bitching and now youre complaining about a minor nerf to cargo capacity on a ship that should be mining directly into a can/orca??? i mean are you for real?!??!
fk me sideways....
And we finally got "I can't gank defenseless ships anymore and make profit doing it" post.
Umad? Can I haz your stuffz? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4497
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Posted - 2012.08.22 08:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:miners are the biggest fuking whiners and moaners anywhere ever... you just got the single biggest mining buff ever due to your constant bitching and now youre complaining about a minor nerf to cargo capacity on a ship that should be mining directly into a can/orca??? i mean are you for real?!??!
fk me sideways.... And we finally got "I can't gank defenseless ships anymore and make profit doing it" post. Umad? Can I haz your stuffz?
And finally we got the "Jorma Morkiss making stuff up in a Hulk thread" post Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
18
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Posted - 2012.08.24 03:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
LOL it's hard to please miners, isn't it?
Miners: "We want to punish people that steal from us!!!" CCP: "Can flagging" Miners: "WAAAAAA CAN FLIPPING GRIEFING BASTARDS!!!!!"
Miners: "We want more ships for mining stuff" CCP: "ORCA" Miners: "WAAAAAA THE GRIEFERS THOUGHT OF A WAY TO USE IT AGAINST US!!!!"
Miners: "Please buff our mining ships so they can't be suicide ganked!" CCP: "Barge rebalance" Miners: "WAAAAAAAAAA MY HULK IS NO LONGER THE BEST AND ONLY SHIP FOR MINING!!GÇ£
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Tub Chil
Heretic University Heretic Nation
22
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Posted - 2012.08.24 07:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:The purpose of the change was to make all mining ships good at something. From what you describe it seems to be a huge success. The problem seems to be, that the Hulk isn't the best at everything anymore and you're having trouble adjusting to this new reality. It's ok to fly other ships, if you think they're better at what you want to do. You just need to ask yourself what it is, that you value the most in your mining ship. Make that choice and what ship to use will become obvious.
No, purpose of this change was to shut greed miners up, who were permanently whining on forums "Muh hulk ganked" because they didn't find it reasonable to tank their ship |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
511
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Posted - 2012.08.24 07:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Jack Miton wrote:miners are the biggest fuking whiners and moaners anywhere ever... you just got the single biggest mining buff ever due to your constant bitching and now youre complaining about a minor nerf to cargo capacity on a ship that should be mining directly into a can/orca??? i mean are you for real?!??!
fk me sideways.... And we finally got "I can't gank defenseless ships anymore and make profit doing it" post. Umad? Can I haz your stuffz?
im not a for profit ganker, im a for the lols ganker. mining barges are rarely my targets.
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Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2012.08.24 09:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jazlina wrote:Before the patch I had a hold of 13.5km3, now my hold is 8.5... Cargo expanders no longer work on ore cargo holds, only general cargo. This means I have to make 33% more trips back to base than I did before which in my reckoning is a net LOSS in isk/hour than before.
Pre-1.2 maximum ore capacity on a tanked hulk was 8km3. Post-1.2 maximum ore capacity on a tanked hulk is 8.85km3. That's nearly an 11% buff.
I'm not seeing the nerf.
Oh, yes, and cargo expanders never worked on ore holds. Flying an orca or a rorqual teaches that pretty fast.
Jazlina wrote:In the markets the value of a hulk is plummeting and the value of the mack and skiff is skyrocketing. As of today the Mack is selling for more than the hulk in amarr space and the skiff is very close. The hulk is selling for about 30% less than it was pre-patch.
Given that the skiff was around 170k pre-1.2 and the mackinaw at around 230k pre-1.2 and they're now both back at that price or lower and given that the hulk has gone down approximately 28.5% in price I'm not seeing where the bad thing is. Skiff and mackinaw prices have dropped slightly and hulk prices have dropped in a major way making the ships easier to replace, and if you're fitting a hulk for maximum cargo I'm presuming you need to replace it on a regular basis.
I sincerely hope you post the exact same type, and quality, of comments when PvP'ers and mission runners, as they inevitably do, do the exact same thing. |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
20
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Posted - 2012.08.24 10:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shereza wrote:I sincerely hope you post the exact same type, and quality, of comments when PvP'ers and mission runners, as they inevitably do, do the exact same thing.
I do, actually. What's strikes me as funny, is that historically, a lot of miners carebears don't really know what they're asking for, or are too shortsighted/stupid/ignorant to see the implications of what would happen if what they asked for got implemented. For example, miners asked for the above 3 things, and yet the whining continues unabated.
Another example would be the sentry gun changes 'spitballing' that was the topic of quite a few threads last week.
As I mentioned, I also poke fun at lousy PVPers who take the same attitude as the aforementioned carebears, don't you worry :) |
My Postman
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.08.24 10:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
OP, you are doing it wrong.
Get a Mack, you can fit 3 (!) MLU II on it! Now your yield will be 200m3 (mining crystal I) less than with your hulk. As the Mack has a ore hold of 35k m3 you can now stay in belt aproximatly 3 times longer than in your hulk, which will save you at least 6 mins (3 times back and forth, 2 mins for unloading), which is 2 cycles of your strip miners.
The Mack aligns faster as the Hulk, is much more agile, and now even has a better tank.
There is no downside for a single miner, beside the fact that your Hulk is worthless now, and you will have to pay ridiculous 290m for the Mack atm.
Long story short, you will yield more ore faster than in your Hulk, watch mineral prices plummet in a few days/weeks/months.
And an extra lulz for those who have a Hulk BPO, which is worthless now as well. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.08.24 11:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
My Postman wrote:Get a Mack, you can fit 3 (!) MLU II on it! Now your yield will be 200m3 (mining crystal I) less than with your hulk.
600m3...
But I wouldn't fit Mack for max yield though. |
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