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AresShadow
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Posted - 2011.02.09 00:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: AresShadow on 09/02/2011 00:06:33 0.0 and blobs, FW, and piracy don't seem to have it.
I've been playing for 5+ years and the idea of small gangs having fun and surviving is a constant fleeting notion. So I pose the question, how do you think small 2-5 man gangs can best enjoy shooting other players without waiting for hours for alliance blobs to form, dealing with alliance politics, losing sec status for noob pillaging, FW drama or dealing with pve boredom?
Or am I wrong and the mechanics of Eve have not lost the small gang mentality?
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.02.09 00:11:00 -
[2]
Originally by: AresShadow Edited by: AresShadow on 09/02/2011 00:06:33 0.0 and blobs, FW, and piracy don't seem to have it.
I've been playing for 5+ years and the idea of small gangs having fun and surviving is a constant fleeting notion. So I pose the question, how do you think small 2-5 man gangs can best enjoy shooting other players without waiting for hours for alliance blobs to form, dealing with alliance politics, losing sec status for noob pillaging, FW drama or dealing with pve boredom?
Or am I wrong and the mechanics of Eve have not lost the small gang mentality?
The punch line should be Fun. But then you had to go tossing in surviving, which leads me to believe that you are not pleased with the ease of finding yourself safe targets lately.. and too concerned with the safety of your ships, and a whole lot of everything else.. to really take you seriously. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Aric Nahl
Caldari Special Services LTD
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Posted - 2011.02.09 00:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Umega
The punch line should be Fun. But then you had to go tossing in surviving, which leads me to believe that you are not pleased with the ease of finding yourself safe targets lately.. and too concerned with the safety of your ships, and a whole lot of everything else.. to really take you seriously.
Sometimes a silly **** will dribble forth some mindless prattle. This is one of those times.
Having flown with you upon occasion, I realize the quoted Mensa candidate above has no idea what she is talking about. Allow me if you will, to attempt to clarify for her.
Being neither a pirate, gate-camper, or 0.0 uber-blob drone, there seems to be little chance for a small group of friends to partake in PVP. Are there any realistic alternatives?
To those that jump to conclusions without any facts, I hope the two simple sentances above clarify for you the original poster's intent.
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Mikalya
Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.02.09 00:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: AresShadow Edited by: AresShadow on 09/02/2011 00:06:33 0.0 and blobs, FW, and piracy don't seem to have it.
I've been playing for 5+ years and the idea of small gangs having fun and surviving is a constant fleeting notion. So I pose the question, how do you think small 2-5 man gangs can best enjoy shooting other players without waiting for hours for alliance blobs to form, dealing with alliance politics, losing sec status for noob pillaging, FW drama or dealing with pve boredom?
Or am I wrong and the mechanics of Eve have not lost the small gang mentality?
You can always join us!
Sure, you can camp Jita 4,4 and farm alliance haulers all day. There is a certain amount of fun in reading CAOD about how "insignificant" you are when they are emo-raging about you in the same breathe
But we also have a pilots that just run around singly or in small gangs looking for targets in High, Low AND 0.0. Where do you want to go today? Plus no politics, no sec status problems, access to all the slave girls or brawny brutes High Sec has to offer.
A game is supposed to be fun, look around its still out there.... - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work |
Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.02.09 00:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aric Nahl
Originally by: Umega
The punch line should be Fun. But then you had to go tossing in surviving, which leads me to believe that you are not pleased with the ease of finding yourself safe targets lately.. and too concerned with the safety of your ships, and a whole lot of everything else.. to really take you seriously.
Sometimes a silly **** will dribble forth some mindless prattle. This is one of those times.
Having flown with you upon occasion, I realize the quoted Mensa candidate above has no idea what she is talking about. Allow me if you will, to attempt to clarify for her.
Being neither a pirate, gate-camper, or 0.0 uber-blob drone, there seems to be little chance for a small group of friends to partake in PVP. Are there any realistic alternatives?
To those that jump to conclusions without any facts, I hope the two simple sentances above clarify for you the original poster's intent.
So what you basicly told everyone.. is that you and your friends are a bunch of lazy folk that want the PvP handed to them, but safe PvP that doesn't risk your precious ships. That's honestly what it looks like.
If you truly want to PvP.. then go get it. I mean.. I know it sucks, man.. that people actually have to do something, to get something they want. That's some pretty twisted logic, dude.. right there with ya...
If you and your friends fail at getting the fights and PvP you want, then it really is you and your friends that failed. Why pin it on something else? The options are out there to PvP in varies forms.
The only thing either of you have stated that you want.. is small gang. So.. why don't you form a small gang and go fight? Just do it. It's pretty easy to form fleet, just right click someone.. and form fleet with them. Do this 2-4 times to achieve your desired 2-5 man small gang. Ta-da..
But no.. its more than that, just say what it is exactly. Safer, hand it to me on a plate PvP is what this is really about. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.02.09 00:44:00 -
[6]
Hard to do small gang roaming unless you are in cloakys or fast frigs.
Otherwise set up your home in a semi busy area and scout out targets with-in short distance from your home, to allow the ability to better pre-select the ships for the engagement.
You could also look around in WH's but personally I find that far too time consuming.
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AresShadow
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Posted - 2011.02.09 01:32:00 -
[7]
True. Survivable to a lesser degree, with fun being the prime motivation. I would still argue that small gang ops with out pirating for noobs has become a thing of the past. Small gang fights are less prevailant than they once were. Using bate to lure pirates, scanning/probing dozens of low sec and null sec only to find a potential ratter /pvp group cloaked safed or docked, or running into organized gate camps or blobs, has been an evolution of the game. Yes players have become smarter, but only because of the mechanics. It is not about being lazy. I agree that covops/recon gangs is one tactic. Target selection and patience is crucial.
My intent was to pose an open ended discussion as to where you encounter fun (first) and survivability (optional) in the world of eve. Because I'm just not seing it anymore.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.02.09 02:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AresShadow Edited by: AresShadow on 09/02/2011 01:47:41 True. Survivable to a lesser degree, with fun being the prime motivation. I would still argue that small gang ops with out pirating for noobs has become a thing of the past. Small gang fights are less prevailant than they once were. Using bate to lure pirates, scanning/probing dozens of low sec and null sec only to find a potential ratter /pvp group cloaked safed or docked, or running into organized gate camps or blobs, has been an evolution of the game. Yes players have become smarter, but only because of the mechanics. It is not about being lazy. I agree that covops/recon gangs is one tactic. Target selection and patience is crucial.
My intent was to pose an open ended discussion as to where you encounter fun (first) and survivability (optional) working in a small gang in the world of eve. Because I'm just not seing it anymore.
Now you make it sound like you have far better understanding than before.
Perhaps you just need to adapt. Maybe still using old methods to find your small vs decent to good success ratio? As was previously stated.. wormholes are a good source for finding smaller fleet number success. Simple, small, employed merc groups. Creating your own stints previously unthought, or sparingly used.. like, taking inspiration from Sansha.. raid highsec, raid a sem-populated/organized lowsec system with a coordinated effort. And the harder targets should obviously take more work.. but what comes with that when success happens, is greater sense of accomplishment. The options exist to make the game your way.. some ways going to take more effort than others.
I disagree more people have become smarter.. there is plenty of stupid out there. But the smart ones tend to cattle the lesser into organized groups.. there is more experinced vets than before, having learned from past mistakes and implementing their knowledge into the new masses. It's not like there are less targets than before.. maybe per a particular portion of space, but as a whole.. the options have increased.
The only thing off top of head CCP could do to help/encourage small fleet warfare, without breaking something else.. implement delayed wh-like local. Provides too much on spot intel when such should be earned.. allowing quicker, and easier moblizing of forces and counters.
Have to accept the fact tho.. that small gang is generally going to result in small rewards. More gets more.. less gets less. It's instinctive.. and so people band. That's something small corp/alli/fleet people are going have to accept.. want more, go get more. It's not going to fall from the sky into lap, I pray not. If such a thing takes place.. EVE wouldn't be the same harsh place, and wouldn't be EVE anymore. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Ephemeron
BeerTia Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.02.09 02:33:00 -
[9]
The only positive thing I can say: you can find small gang pvp by war dec'ing medium size alliances, fighting in empire. Medium sized groups usually have at least a few pvp'ers willing to fight, but not enough to create real blobs.
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Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
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Posted - 2011.02.09 02:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: AresShadow Edited by: AresShadow on 09/02/2011 00:06:33 0.0 and blobs, FW, and piracy don't seem to have it.
I've been playing for 5+ years and the idea of small gangs having fun and surviving is a constant fleeting notion. So I pose the question, how do you think small 2-5 man gangs can best enjoy shooting other players without waiting for hours for alliance blobs to form, dealing with alliance politics, losing sec status for noob pillaging, FW drama or dealing with pve boredom?
You can run small gangs in 0.0., FW and in piracy. You can also run them in hisec. I don't think you have been trying hard enough.
ps is this your main? 'cos I just checked Battle clinic to see what kind of PvP you've been doing in your 5 years in Eve and....damn!
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AresShadow
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Posted - 2011.02.09 02:58:00 -
[11]
Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone see other alternatives? This poor toon has seen the worst alliance pvp has to offer. So I would add, has Fleet ops in alliances evolved in the past 2 yrs? I clearly was tainted by inefficient Methods of gathering fleets in alliances, hours waisted gathering to roam with little luck, and poor FCing when blobs did engage.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.09 03:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Target Painter on 09/02/2011 03:29:09
Originally by: AresShadow Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone see other alternatives?
NPC 0.0. Usually get good fights, not always fair but usually not blobs.
Quote: So I would add, has Fleet ops in alliances evolved in the past 2 yrs?
Yes. Getting in system first, with the most, still counts for too much though.
As for why the increase in blobbing, death of solo and small gangs, EVE is much more populated than when I started playing and that probably has a lot to do with it.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.02.09 03:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Target Painter Edited by: Target Painter on 09/02/2011 03:29:09
Originally by: AresShadow Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone see other alternatives?
NPC 0.0. Usually get good fights, not always fair but usually not blobs.
This.
Go to Syndicate. It is the only NPC 0.0 with plenty of stations, services and systems. PvP to your harts content.
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Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente United Mining And Distribution
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Posted - 2011.02.09 05:49:00 -
[14]
Wspace is another alternative. You'll have to be willing to put some work into finding fights though. We've had great success and some very quality engagements
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Greg6
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.09 18:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: AresShadow Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone see other alternatives? ....
Come to Heyd or Nisuwa and ask for an arranged fight.
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SomeHardLovin
The Boondock Saints
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Posted - 2011.02.09 19:06:00 -
[16]
The Orphanage is doing it right. War dec a pile of small corps in high sec and let the phun begin ;) ---
Bring forth the Assault Frigate apocalypse! |
Mikalya
Amarr Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.02.09 20:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: SomeHardLovin The Orphanage is doing it right. War dec a pile of small corps in high sec and let the phun begin ;)
Not small corps; if they dont' have at least 100 active members we won't issue the war dec unless paid
We do on average have some 30k potential targets though. Sometimes hard to find them too. Its fascinating when the weekly war decs go out there are oranges EVERYWHERE and 24 hours later no one to be seen for a week.... - The PitBoss: AGREED .. getting paid to farm your alliance isn't real pvp/merc work |
BolsterBomb
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Posted - 2011.02.09 20:39:00 -
[18]
This notion of small gang fights are going away quick.
The reality is no one is willing to potntially lose and therefore they bring a blob so they win. I have gone roaming solo in Gallente FW space for the last 4 days. I have lost 5 drakes to try and get the mysteriously vanishing "1v1 fight" heck even 3v1 Ive been trying to get. The problem is no one truly wants a 1v1, its either a tarp and you go in and then get blobbed by 4 people or nothing at all.
Prearranged fights are ******ed, yes you may get one but seriously I have to call the bat phone and ask for a 1v1.
Even Gallente militia people will sit in Hey and wait for something to come through intel channels then everyone gets up and rolls out. No one truly wants to 1v1 or small gang fight because that means they may lose.
I was even told by a close milita friend that they kicked a person because that person would go out looking for a fight and die because he was stupid. I asked further to explain stupid and his response was basically defined as looking for a 1v1, because in eve everything is a trap there is no 1v1 because people are to coward to do it. Or they try to gank you with a bigger ship.
Ex: Past couple nights I went in the belts looking for someone to fight and sure enough found someone. Im in a drake, I find a cane in one. Fighting the cane then what happens 2 more guys come in. No problem. But what happebns jammer comes in next. This happens 3 other times to me while looking for fights in similiar circumstances.
So eve...REALLY...do you REALLY want a 1v1.
If you cant afford the ship you're flying and you are scared of losing it...DONT FLY IT.....if you can truly afford the ship you're flying then who cares if it pops, go out there and get your small gang fight. The more people willing to embrace the lose and ignore the Kill Boards will be the day Eve gets back to small gangs and less blobs.
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Mara Abraham
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.09 21:46:00 -
[19]
Greetings:
In Minmatar FW, I'm either solo or in a small gang the majority of the time with a small gang being classified as <= 1 squad in a fleet.
Granted, finding fights where it is similar size vs. similar size is difficult.
Last night, our cruiser down small gang (6 of us) took down a similar sized Amarrian fleet -- http://www.minmatar-militia.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=177726 is just one of the kills -- only to have the Amarr ship up to command ships and Battle ships (which is typical of them).
Thank you.
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Chitsa Jason
Caldari Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.02.10 04:15:00 -
[20]
W-space...
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Mister Normal
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Posted - 2011.02.10 06:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: AresShadow Thanks for the suggestions. Anyone see other alternatives? This poor toon has seen the worst alliance pvp has to offer. So I would add, has Fleet ops in alliances evolved in the past 2 yrs? I clearly was tainted by inefficient Methods of gathering fleets in alliances, hours waisted gathering to roam with little luck, and poor FCing when blobs did engage.
I think large alliances are sometimes busy with sov warfare, this takes a huge amount of time and attention. Some alliances (like mine) are dedicated to a) fitting a Maelstrom b) scheduling the next sov op c) jewing hard to buy another maelstrom.
Test for one, has been very busy over the last several months with sov warfare, from CR to Fountain. The small fleets we do put together are home defense fleets.
Now for other alliances, big or small, i have seen numerous small gangs flying about... Ahac gangs, T1 frig gangs etc...
I also use to do a fair bit of small gang work when i was in high sec. For 0.0 alliances, i think small gangs do need to be promoted more when not in sov warfare, and get them to head to low sec for some fun shenannigans :)
Had one small gang high sec corp camp one of our stations in their T1 cruisers... so me and a mate undocked our Archons... didn't shoot any of them, just undocked them for a chuckle.
I think small gangs like that are awesome to the max.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.02.10 09:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mister Normal
I think large alliances are sometimes busy with sov warfare, this takes a huge amount of time and attention. Some alliances (like mine) are dedicated to a) fitting a Maelstrom b) scheduling the next sov op c) jewing hard to buy another maelstrom.
Test for one, has been very busy over the last several months with sov warfare, from CR to Fountain. The small fleets we do put together are home defense fleets.
Now for other alliances, big or small, i have seen numerous small gangs flying about... Ahac gangs, T1 frig gangs etc...
I also use to do a fair bit of small gang work when i was in high sec. For 0.0 alliances, i think small gangs do need to be promoted more when not in sov warfare, and get them to head to low sec for some fun shenannigans :)
Had one small gang high sec corp camp one of our stations in their T1 cruisers... so me and a mate undocked our Archons... didn't shoot any of them, just undocked them for a chuckle.
I think small gangs like that are awesome to the max.
The problem with null sec guys and their ideas of "small" gang roams to low sec, is small to them is 30 or 40 ships. In low sec that's just something to be avoided for most residents.
There is a real lack of alternatives for 2 to 5 man gangs in which I believe the OP is looking for, when he says small gang PVP. In gangs like that it's much more challenging IMO, as every member typically holds a vital role in the success or failure of a fight.
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Bengal Bob
Minmatar Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:01:00 -
[23]
Small gangs are regularly out in the Amarr/Minnie FW zone. Generally cruisers down 2-5 people. As an outsider though you will generally get ignored unless you are in something shiny worth going gcc for. We still need to regularly go hi sec and so going flashy is a pain.
Can't think of the last time I logged on and there was no small gang up to join and look for some fun.
Can't speak for the gallente/caldari guys, but the Amarr are good fun and generally there is good natured banter - with the exception of CryLoud who cries loud and nourishes both amarr and minmatar with his juicy tears.
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Bluejacket CT
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:02:00 -
[24]
All I hear in this thread is "QQ"
Just because you're too big of a coward to FC, or your blob group can't fight without 40 people doesn't mean that small gang PvP doesn't exist.
Don't like the blob? Take your own damn fleet out and stop complaining.
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:21:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Lain Umi on 10/02/2011 13:25:48 there's no need to talk trash in a perfectly civil thread. nobody was crying about anything. and his stats arent even that bad. he seems like a guy whos out trying to get some small gang pvp. the issue is, small gangs are antagonized by the game's mechanics that cater to cowardice.
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Wensley
Minmatar Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.02.10 13:40:00 -
[26]
Find blob, fight blob, run away from blob. Win.
Lots of small gang fun to be had as long as you don't expect the other party to be in a small gang. Use speed, logistics, skill, and a well-composed gang and there's plenty of fun to be had. Look at what the smaller roaming corps are doing and follow suit.
Pure Blind and Geminate are good places for small gangs to get fights. Quit complaining and get out there.
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yopparai
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Posted - 2011.02.12 02:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: yopparai on 12/02/2011 02:23:39 Curse region - plenty of stations, plenty of chances for hit & run gangs, with balls.
balls not included
Yopp
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Karl Planck
Walt Disney Productions
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Posted - 2011.02.14 13:54:00 -
[28]
So, it depends what you mean by small gangs and what you are trying to fight.
Small gangs of 2-5 means that you are either looking for ppl to gank or other small gangs I assume. Ganking is easy, find a high traffic low sec and gank away. Stay away from Caldari/Gall FW space (blobs ahoy!) There is a lot of other low secs that are not so much filled with blobs.
Other option, use HACs. With the right setup you can take on gangs much larger than you, but get ready for the possibility of expensive losses.
Fly Something expensive for bait. The more expensive it is the quicker response you will get, if it takes too much time move on because a blob is forming.
If you really want fun pvp remove the small gang aspect. You are trying to fly safe and people recongnize that. Fly something cheap instead, like a t1 frig, and go get a fight. A lot more people will be willing to fight a T1 frig, and you will be able to narrow down numbers because not everyone will sit around waiting for YOU to let the pvp start. Even fly a couple of t1 frigs, people will engage you all the time, everyone thinks they are easy to kill. 5 frigs costs less than a drake and the kill is even more tasty -------------------------------------------------
Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. |
Amberle Shannara
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Chitsa Jason W-space...
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2011.02.14 19:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: AresShadow FW drama
Faction Warfare drama is a state of mind. If you want to do some pew pew with your friends then join FW and ignore all the drama. Turn blink off on the militia channel and go about your merry way. You'll find the entire experience to be MUCH more enjoyable once you ignore the militia and all the "omg ur a spai" BS.
FW was a great idea but the players have ruined it for themselves.
- "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
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