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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
186
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the current technology available in the cluster, would it be possible to, say, warp a freighter full on anti-matter in containment into a sun's core and let said freighter blow up, in turn causing the sun to react rather....violently?
I've seen it as a recurring theme in a few sci-fi novels I've read (Jack McDevitt and Alastair Reynolds) and was wondering if, lore wise, this would be a possibility?.. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1090
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
sure, go SD a freighter in a system's star and see what happens |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:sure, go SD a freighter in a system's star and see what happens
This is not an in-game function, I am aware of that. If you read what I said, I was speaking in terms of lore. If you think all my posts are shiptoasting, simply do not answer them. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
131
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 21:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Note: I am neither a physicist nor a mathematician.
I threw together some rough numbers just for fun, taking into account the above disclaimer it's very possible I made a mistake or two. Anyone with any real knowledge on this sort thing feel free to correct and shame me.
Assume:
1 Charon with 785,000 m3 of cargo space filled with antimatter.
Now, antimatter could come in all types of densities depending on what you make it out of, this is practically back of the napkin so I just assumed one cubic meter would contain one ton of antimatter.
I used a calculator to do the antimatter reaction energy output as I do not trust myself to do it but at 785,000 tons of antimatter I got an explosive output of 30,646,400,000 megatons. Converting into joules (again, with a calculator made by someone smarter than I) I got 1.2822454 x 10^26 joules. Wikipedia says that the energy output of the sun (a smallish star) per second is 3.8 x 10^26. So we're looking at an explosion that (let's say happened in a single second which is unlikely but simplifies the problem) would increase the energy output of a star of the same size and type as ours by almost exactly 1/3 for one second. This effect diminishes quickly if the time for the explosion to occur increases. A ten second explosion would (I'm guessing) result in ten seconds where the energy output of the star was increased by only a little over 3%.
So, after this cursory examination, I would advise the OP to find a very small star or a very large number of freighters. Alternatively, figure out Sansha wormhole technology and open one directly into or through a star. That's bound to cause problems. |
Bifordus Maximus
MissoCorp
8
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Posted - 2012.08.22 01:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Please not that I know very little about this subject.
I was thinking as to how large stars go supernova. What makes them explode is that after they run out of the light elements they start to fuse heavier elements like iron and that's what makes them collapse then explode almost immediately. Perhaps instead of antimatter it should be maybe a freighter or two full of Veldspar or Tritanium (iron?). I believe that such a sudden change in density of the core of the star would make it explode suddenly. |
Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
27
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Posted - 2012.08.22 01:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
That's assuming that anything you send even MAKES IT to the surface of a star. Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home. -Cold Wind |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 04:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Imagine if wormholes worked like Portal portals. Fire orange into center of sun, fire blue into space - differential pressure gradient causes the space portal to squirt out a beam of hyper-dense star guts at relativistic velocities, as the star with the orange portal in it begins to contract, crushing its insides out through the hole in its core.
Use all-destroying star beam to wipe out planets you dislike, etc... |
Quinc4623
Borg Mining Collective Unimatrix 01 D E M O N S Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.08.22 04:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stars are so incredibly massive that even a freighter full of ANYTHING would fail to upset them. Remember than the sun has over 99% of the solar system's mass. Launching Jupiter into the sun would barely cause a solar burp. I suppose if you launched jupiter into the sun at light speed that could cause problems though. However if you have access to that kind of energy, perhaps you should just build a giant laser and shoot the guy, instead of messing with his sun.
Though yes, sun killers are a staple of science fiction. |
Myxx
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
554
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 04:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Imagine if wormholes worked like Portal portals. Fire orange into center of sun, fire blue into space - differential pressure gradient causes the space portal to squirt out a beam of hyper-dense star guts at relativistic velocities, as the star with the orange portal in it begins to contract, crushing its insides out through the hole in its core.
Use all-destroying star beam to wipe out planets you dislike, etc... I now hope that the portal gun never becomes real and that if it does, interstellar travel is heavily limited. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
192
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 12:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
So the above mentioned comments would be for the actual sun for the Sol System. NOW....what about an Eve sun? Say...the sun of Amarr Prime or some such. |
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kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 12:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pump some iron in to that sucker. insta kill :)
^^ im not joking btw Iron is the way to go. Delivery is the problem. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
193
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 14:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:Pump some iron in to that sucker. insta kill :)
^^ im not joking btw Iron is the way to go. Delivery is the problem.
Doesn't a ship tunnel a warp corridor through a planet? Couldn't it theoretically be done with a few freighters with cargo bays full of iron wall to wall? |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 15:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
When you state it like that, I don't see why not. However I think it isn't that easy otherwise we would surely see stars exploding on a regular basis. Considering that the formation or introduction of a single Iron molecule to the active process kills a star, but that is when it is synthesized, I think more might be needed to collapse a star artificially. I am sure someone would have tried it by now. Knowing minmatar ships, it would even be surprising it hasn't happened accidentally already. Especially since several of my ships have been prone to losing wingy bits. So something about warp technology must not allow for the exit out of warp within the sun. Either that or the quantity required |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
194
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yeah that is a weird bit of lore...we need a Dev or a Physicist. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 17:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:When you state it like that, I don't see why not. However I think it isn't that easy otherwise we would surely see stars exploding on a regular basis. Considering that the formation or introduction of a single Iron molecule to the active process kills a star, but that is when it is synthesized, I think more might be needed to collapse a star artificially. I am sure someone would have tried it by now. Knowing minmatar ships, it would even be surprising it hasn't happened accidentally already. Especially since several of my ships have been prone to losing wingy bits. So something about warp technology must not allow for the exit out of warp within the sun. Either that or the quantity required
I am quite certain that a single iron atom would have no effect on the processes of a star. Setting aside that any given star at stage in its life is bound to have a very large number of all types of elements either through its normal fusion process (while most of the fusion will be of the hydrogen and helium variety for a normal star for most its life over time randomness will result in the fusion of larger and more exotic elements, especially iron) or from leftovers of the previous stars that provided the mass to form the star. Our sun, for instance, is 0.16% iron.
All the heavier elements that make up things like planets (metals, gases, and even up to uranium and plutonium) are the product from past stellar fusion processes. Large and/or hot stars can continue fusion all the way up to silicon and at that point iron will make up a surprising amount of the star's mass.
There's no element/molecule that we know of that could be introduced in small amounts to a star to disrupt its process in any appreciable way. Unless we want to talk about exotic forms of matter, like strangelets or something, the only way destroying a star through the introduction of outside material will necessitate just a very, very large amount something (just about anything would probably do). We're talking about a lot though. I have no idea how much or how to calculate how much iron it would take to disrupt the sun's fusion process but if it were even only 1% of the sun's mass you're talking about a lot of iron.
Again, I did some math (probably badly) and what I calculated was that a block of iron equal to 1% of our sun's mass would weigh 22 trillion trillion short tons and would be 18.5 billion trillion cubed miles in volume. That's a cube of iron 26.45 million miles on each side. If anybody plans on trying this do tell so that I can invest in mining lasers now.
EDIT: I think the reason that the hypothetical block of iron is so much larger than the sun itself is because I did not (and could not even try) to account for how the block would collapse under its own gravity and reach a much higher density (and thus much smaller volume) than normal cast iron. The actual ball (you couldn't keep it in cube form) would likely be much smaller but the above still illustrates, I hope, the gargantuan amount of material we're talking about. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 17:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
David Forge wrote:kraiklyn Asatru wrote:When you state it like that, I don't see why not. However I think it isn't that easy otherwise we would surely see stars exploding on a regular basis. Considering that the formation or introduction of a single Iron molecule to the active process kills a star, but that is when it is synthesized, I think more might be needed to collapse a star artificially. I am sure someone would have tried it by now. Knowing minmatar ships, it would even be surprising it hasn't happened accidentally already. Especially since several of my ships have been prone to losing wingy bits. So something about warp technology must not allow for the exit out of warp within the sun. Either that or the quantity required I am quite certain that a single iron atom would have no effect on the processes of a star. Setting aside that any given star at stage in its life is bound to have a very large number of all types of elements either through its normal fusion process (while most of the fusion will be of the hydrogen and helium variety for a normal star for most its life over time randomness will result in the fusion of larger and more exotic elements, especially iron) or from leftovers of the previous stars that provided the mass to form the star. Our sun, for instance, is 0.16% iron. All the heavier elements that make up things like planets (metals, gases, and even up to uranium and plutonium) are the product from past stellar fusion processes. Large and/or hot stars can continue fusion all the way up to silicon and at that point iron will make up a surprising amount of the star's mass. There's no element/molecule that we know of that could be introduced in small amounts to a star to disrupt its process in any appreciable way. Unless we want to talk about exotic forms of matter, like strangelets or something, the only way destroying a star through the introduction of outside material will necessitate just a very, very large amount something (just about anything would probably do). We're talking about a lot though. I have no idea how much or how to calculate how much iron it would take to disrupt the sun's fusion process but if it were even only 1% of the sun's mass you're talking about a lot of iron. Again, I did some math (probably badly) and what I calculated was that a block of iron equal to 1% of our sun's mass would weigh 22 trillion trillion short tons and would be 18.5 billion trillion cubed miles in volume. That's a cube of iron 26.45 million miles on each side. If anybody plans on trying this do tell so that I can invest in mining lasers now. EDIT: I think the reason that the hypothetical block of iron is so much larger than the sun itself is because I did not (and could not even try) to account for how the block would collapse under its own gravity and reach a much higher density (and thus much smaller volume) than normal cast iron. The actual ball (you couldn't keep it in cube form) would likely be much smaller but the above still illustrates, I hope, the gargantuan amount of material we're talking about.
But we're talking about the eve universe, not our universe. Do we have that capability? Hell do we have to use iron? Couldn't be some other material like a crap ton of anti matter? |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 17:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
David Forge wrote:Note: I am neither a physicist nor a mathematician.
I threw together some rough numbers just for fun, taking into account the above disclaimer it's very possible I made a mistake or two. Anyone with any real knowledge on this sort thing feel free to correct and shame me.
Assume:
1 Charon with 785,000 m3 of cargo space filled with antimatter.
Now, antimatter could come in all types of densities depending on what you make it out of, this is practically back of the napkin so I just assumed one cubic meter would contain one ton of antimatter.
I used a calculator to do the antimatter reaction energy output as I do not trust myself to do it but at 785,000 tons of antimatter I got an explosive output of 30,646,400,000 megatons. Converting into joules (again, with a calculator made by someone smarter than I) I got 1.2822454 x 10^26 joules. Wikipedia says that the energy output of the sun (a smallish star) per second is 3.8 x 10^26. So we're looking at an explosion that (let's say happened in a single second which is unlikely but simplifies the problem) would increase the energy output of a star of the same size and type as ours by almost exactly 1/3 for one second. This effect diminishes quickly if the time for the explosion to occur increases. A ten second explosion would (I'm guessing) result in ten seconds where the energy output of the star was increased by only a little over 3%.
So, after this cursory examination, I would advise the OP to find a very small star or a very large number of freighters. Alternatively, figure out Sansha wormhole technology and open one directly into or through a star. That's bound to cause problems.
|
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 17:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
David Forge wrote:David Forge wrote:Note: I am neither a physicist nor a mathematician.
I threw together some rough numbers just for fun, taking into account the above disclaimer it's very possible I made a mistake or two. Anyone with any real knowledge on this sort thing feel free to correct and shame me.
Assume:
1 Charon with 785,000 m3 of cargo space filled with antimatter.
Now, antimatter could come in all types of densities depending on what you make it out of, this is practically back of the napkin so I just assumed one cubic meter would contain one ton of antimatter.
I used a calculator to do the antimatter reaction energy output as I do not trust myself to do it but at 785,000 tons of antimatter I got an explosive output of 30,646,400,000 megatons. Converting into joules (again, with a calculator made by someone smarter than I) I got 1.2822454 x 10^26 joules. Wikipedia says that the energy output of the sun (a smallish star) per second is 3.8 x 10^26. So we're looking at an explosion that (let's say happened in a single second which is unlikely but simplifies the problem) would increase the energy output of a star of the same size and type as ours by almost exactly 1/3 for one second. This effect diminishes quickly if the time for the explosion to occur increases. A ten second explosion would (I'm guessing) result in ten seconds where the energy output of the star was increased by only a little over 3%.
So, after this cursory examination, I would advise the OP to find a very small star or a very large number of freighters. Alternatively, figure out Sansha wormhole technology and open one directly into or through a star. That's bound to cause problems.
Right...ok how about some other sci fi magical item? |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 18:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
You could use the Hand of Omega to turn a target star into a new Eye of Harmony. No more star plus you can power a TARDIS. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
David Forge wrote:You could use the Hand of Omega to turn a target star into a new Eye of Harmony. No more star plus you can power a TARDIS.
Brilliant. |
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kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 23:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
@davis you're right normally the start off iron production ours the start of the end. When the weight becomes to great it can collapse. However the iron ours only produced at the end when other reactions are no longer ppossible.. Introduction of iron won't change this. Guess we will have to use the arse of jamyl sarum, bet it's big enough. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
205
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 13:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:@davis you're right normally the start off iron production ours the start of the end. When the weight becomes to great it can collapse. However the iron ours only produced at the end when other reactions are no longer ppossible.. Introduction of iron won't change this. Guess we will have to use the arse of jamyl sarum, bet it's big enough.
She does NOT have "dat ass" in any way....at least I don't think she does. |
Phugoid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 15:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Didnt Tolian Soran from ST Generations (the movie) do something similar? Heck, mayby even Guinan (Whoopie Goldberg) knows! :) Flugzeugf++hrer |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
206
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 15:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Phugoid wrote:Didnt Tolian Soran from ST Generations (the movie) do something similar? Heck, mayby even Guinan (Whoopie Goldberg) knows! :)
Soran didn't really blow up a sun, he sort of made it send out a pulse? Still, it's just as destructive...how did he do it again? |
Phugoid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 16:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Phugoid wrote:Didnt Tolian Soran from ST Generations (the movie) do something similar? Heck, mayby even Guinan (Whoopie Goldberg) knows! :) Soran didn't really blow up a sun, he sort of made it send out a pulse? Still, it's just as destructive...how did he do it again?
Hmmm, if I remember correctly, Soran launched a missle towards the sun (of the planet he was on) which caused the sun to explode, which changed the course of the NEXUS string, which swallowed up Soran and sent him to blissfull heaven, but the unfortunate affect of that was the total destruction of an inhabited planet and the survivors of the crash landed Enterprise.....
of course, it was all fixed by going back in time :) Flugzeugf++hrer |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
207
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 16:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Phugoid wrote:Anslo wrote:Phugoid wrote:Didnt Tolian Soran from ST Generations (the movie) do something similar? Heck, mayby even Guinan (Whoopie Goldberg) knows! :) Soran didn't really blow up a sun, he sort of made it send out a pulse? Still, it's just as destructive...how did he do it again? Hmmm, if I remember correctly, Soran launched a missle towards the sun (of the planet he was on) which caused the sun to explode, which changed the course of the NEXUS string, which swallowed up Soran and sent him to blissfull heaven, but the unfortunate affect of that was the total destruction of an inhabited planet and the survivors of the crash landed Enterprise..... of course, it was all fixed by going back in time :)
Did the movie even mention the material he used? I can't believe a missile could get through the sun's corona, let alone to it's core, to allow it to blow up. |
Phugoid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 18:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Phugoid wrote:Anslo wrote:Phugoid wrote:Didnt Tolian Soran from ST Generations (the movie) do something similar? Heck, mayby even Guinan (Whoopie Goldberg) knows! :) Soran didn't really blow up a sun, he sort of made it send out a pulse? Still, it's just as destructive...how did he do it again? Hmmm, if I remember correctly, Soran launched a missle towards the sun (of the planet he was on) which caused the sun to explode, which changed the course of the NEXUS string, which swallowed up Soran and sent him to blissfull heaven, but the unfortunate affect of that was the total destruction of an inhabited planet and the survivors of the crash landed Enterprise..... of course, it was all fixed by going back in time :) Did the movie even mention the material he used? I can't believe a missile could get through the sun's corona, let alone to it's core, to allow it to blow up.
Nope. It was actually a bit far-fetched to believe. Was a small missle, probs 10 ft long, and it reached the sun in about a minute, which is kind of impossible to begin with time-wise. Of course tho, it's sci-fi, some laws of physics can be forgotten. Flugzeugf++hrer |
Marcion Cravik
Phoibe Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 18:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Did the movie even mention the material he used? I can't believe a missile could get through the sun's corona, let alone to it's core, to allow it to blow up.
There you go. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 18:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Marcion Cravik wrote:Anslo wrote:Did the movie even mention the material he used? I can't believe a missile could get through the sun's corona, let alone to it's core, to allow it to blow up. There you go.
Thank ya kindly sir! |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
355
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 19:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Put jump bridges all around it? Surely activating those things has some sort of effect on the physics of the local area.
Speaking of New Eden physics (as opposed to our universe's physics), what effect of the 'fluid dynamics model' oily goo that New Eden space is made of? (Not sure if the stuff is actually a part of the lore, though). |
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