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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.11 18:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 11/02/2011 19:05:13
OK ... what this is all about is me trying to determine if my problem is because one of my old machines is running Windows 2000 - in which case I'll have to deal with that - or if there is another reason - which might let me put off dealing with that for a while yet.
The machine is running Win2k because of an incompatibility with XP and a hardware device on that machine.
Up until this latest update - it was running EVE. It didn't run it well - but I could run two copies of the client without much of a problem.
Now - attempting to execute EVE gets me the error message:
"The procedure entry point GetSystemWow64DirectoryA could not be located in the dynamic link library KERNEL32.DLL."
Attempting to run the repair tool gets me the error message:
"Repair.exe Error message: See logfile ... etc."
The contents of the log file are:
"Traceback (most recent call last): File "repair.py", line 14, in <module> File "zipextimporter.pyc", line 82, in load_module File "wx\__init__.pyc", line 45, in <module> File "zipextimporter.pyc", line 82, in load_module File "wx\_core.pyc", line 4, in <module> File "zipextimporter.pyc", line 98, in load_module ImportError: MemoryLoadLibrary failed loading wx\_core_.pyd"
I deleted the EVE installation and reloaded from scratch - no difference.
I tried the VC++ Redistributable update and it made no difference.
Since I did locate a developer comment that they don't support Windows 2000 any more - I can't write a bug report. However - they stopped supporting Win2k some time back - and it's been working up until now.
I'm probably looking at making a choice between running EVE on this system (a nearly identical system, same MB etc runs fine) and using the hardware that conflicts with XP - but before I started tearing the system apart - I thought I'd ask if anyone else out there can still run EVE under Windows 2000 after the latest update. If so - then it's not Win2k. If not ... then I'll have to deal with that.
-Thanks
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2011.02.11 20:31:00 -
[2]
What are the specifications of the machine. ------------------------------------- The system issues man. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.11 20:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lork Niffle What are the specifications of the machine.
The spec's on the machine aren't the issue. It was running EVE before.
The graphic's card is soon to be obsolete - but it's not now.
A nearly identical machine, same motherboard, same cpu, same ram, but with a good video card AND Win XP works fine.
The only difference between that machine and this one - is that video card and the OS.
What I need to know - is if anyone else is able to get EVE to run with the current version of the program under Windows 2000.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Sonya Rayner
Unicorn Enterprise Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.02.11 23:59:00 -
[4]
Minimum OS requirements for EVE was changed a while ago (dominion, if my memory serves) to Windows XP SP2 or newer because of dependency requirements.
Quote: Currently the minimum system requirements are Windows XP but with Dominion they will become Windows XP Service Pack 2. This is due to Chromium's dependence on Windows HTTP Services version 5.1 (winhttp.dll).
Linky
Also apparently EVE uses some API calls that are not present in preXP systems (such as WOW64 call you posted).
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.12 04:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sonya Rayner Minimum OS requirements for EVE was changed a while ago (dominion, if my memory serves) to Windows XP SP2 or newer because of dependency requirements.
Quote: Currently the minimum system requirements are Windows XP but with Dominion they will become Windows XP Service Pack 2. This is due to Chromium's dependence on Windows HTTP Services version 5.1 (winhttp.dll).
Linky
Also apparently EVE uses some API calls that are not present in preXP systems (such as WOW64 call you posted).
Yeah, thanks for the link.
That link was from 2009 though - which said that XP had been their standard for some time and they were going to XP SP2 - but - I've been running Win2k right up until this update without a problem. So - it could well be that they've finally included some call that it choked on. That pretty much is what I expect the problem is. If you look at the way they talked about their SSE problem ... they were "Cleaning up their code" or something like that - and without noticing it - killed off all the machines that didn't support SSE 2. This same code cleaning - may well have killed off the last of the Win2k installations as well. I was just trying to confirm it.
Having lost one machine to the SSE 2 problem - and this one apparently to Win2k being to old - is all coming on top of having had to redo all my character portraits ... over a number of accounts ... and having to redo all my PI extractors as well.
So ... as I said ... before tearing my machine apart and spending a bunch MORE time just trying to get back to where I was before this update ... I wanted to confirm that I really needed to do that. If I could put that off for a while it would let me get back to actually playing the game instead of recovering from the update ...
I've still got two other machines that will play the game so ... *shrug* ... I'll probably just use those until I can get this sorted.
Thanks to all who read the thread and to those who posted.
If anyone out there actually does have Win2k running EVE I'd still be interested to hear it but I'd not be surprised to see that no one does. I mean ... it did come out ten or eleven years ago ... that's easily the most use I've ever gotten out of an OS ... Ha! Ha!
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Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.12 06:41:00 -
[6]
Dual-boot if you don't need the W2K when Eve is running - either hot-swap or on the same drive.
If the reason you're still running W2K is due to legacy hardware dongles or whatnots, have you checked if a W2K VM can map successfully to it? |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.12 11:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Dual-boot if you don't need the W2K when Eve is running - either hot-swap or on the same drive.
If the reason you're still running W2K is due to legacy hardware dongles or whatnots, have you checked if a W2K VM can map successfully to it?
Actually ... the hard ware conflict was with the disk drives ...
So ... what I'm probably going to do - is take the drives out of the machine that had the SSE 2 problem and which is running XP - and put those in the system that has Win 2k on it. Since that box has an unfixable CPU problem I'll just use it with Win2k (and the TV Tuner video card) - while I put the new AGP Radeon HD 3850 video card that was in the that box in the other one - giving it the same OS/Video configuration as one of the two systems that is working fine now.
Since the system that had the SSE 2 problem would only run one copy of EVE without crashing - and the near duplicate that runs EVE can run 3 copies of EVE while the Win2k box it was almost identical to could only run 2 - I'll be even ... if it all works.
The problem with doing this - is that the system with the SSE2 problem - also will no longer talk to it's CDROM drive ... I mean - I can't access the drive from the CMOS settings ... so that may pose a problem in getting all the drivers setup. But I should be able to copy them onto the hard drives when I move them over - if I can do that. If not - I've got a zip drive I can put the drivers on.
I built that system out of old parts I had lying around a couple years ago ... plus a new video card and I got some use out of it before it became OBE ... but I'm not sure how much work I want to put into that old box. I was building another one ... and ... never finished putting it together. So ... these systems may just join my junk pile of old computers. The only reason I was putting them together was that they would run EVE ... but now they won't ... *shrug*
Before I retired ... I'd have just set them aside intact and ... let them sit there with all the other old systems I've got ... but now ... I've got a tighter budget and was hoping to get some use out of the 200gb of space on those hard drives with the XP compatibility problem - otherwise I'd just strip the video card out of the system with the SSE2 problem ... and maybe the RAM ... and let the rest go.
The problem with being retired is ... you've got more time ... but you've got less energy and less money ... so ... *shrug*
So anyway ... I can do something with this stuff ... it's just that fooling with old hardware can really reach a point of diminishing returns ... and if I could have just done some little fix like that C++ redistributable solution (which didn't work) and keep this thing going for a little while longer it would have helped me get back to making up some of the ISK I've already lost (i.e. - not made) because of all the other stuff I've had to fool with as a result of this update.
*shrug*
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Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2011.02.12 17:39:00 -
[8]
We stopped supporting Windows 2000 a number of years ago, even if EVE continued to work on Windows 2000.
We upgraded the video card requirements to Shader Model 2 in March 2009 (Apocrypha), the operating system requirements from Windows XP to Windows XP Service Pack 2 in September 2009 (Dominion) and the minimum hardware requirements SSE2 in January 2011 (Incursion).
Windows 2000 doesn't support SSE2. In addition there are now calls to IsWow64Process and GetSystemWow64Directory that are not supported by Windows 2000.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.12 19:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Explorer We stopped supporting Windows 2000 a number of years ago, even if EVE continued to work on Windows 2000.
We upgraded the video card requirements to Shader Model 2 in March 2009 (Apocrypha), the operating system requirements from Windows XP to Windows XP Service Pack 2 in September 2009 (Dominion) and the minimum hardware requirements SSE2 in January 2011 (Incursion).
Windows 2000 doesn't support SSE2. In addition there are now calls to IsWow64Process and GetSystemWow64Directory that are not supported by Windows 2000.
OK. Cool. Thanks for confirming that this was the problem. That's just what I wanted. Now that I know that Win2k was the reason I'll just deal with that. This saves me from wondering if it could have been anything else and wasting my time on issues that weren't relevant.
Much obliged.
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Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.12 20:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Actually ... the hard ware conflict was with the disk drives ...
Tbh, I have a hard time wrapping up my head around problems with the fundamental drive hardware that made them OS dependant (?!?). W2K was an XP pre-cursor (by about 1 year), if anything, it should be more compatible. I had an old Celeron 300A (circa 1998) that was handed off to my siblings - no parts replaced. It is currently running XP.
I'm aware that there may be exceptions, however rare they may be. Getting around solving these exceptions are honestly very trivial, given the options available nowadays.
P.S I'm still a bit miffed at CCP for screwing the 128MB 7300GT. At this point in time, I'm just amusedly waiting to see how long they'll take to fix the shader memory issue (see my thread in the Test forum ). I've got a spare 256Mb card lying around in the worse case scenario, and just like you, I'm loath to touch this machine's innards. When the time comes however, it's just a matter of setting your mind to it ... no biggie.
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Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente United Mining And Distribution
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Posted - 2011.02.12 20:07:00 -
[11]
Eve runs on Win2k with some tweaking. You're going to have to get yourself some proxy DLLs to fake the missing calls though.
1. Download the OCW Wrapper pack (forum post)
2. Extract the zip to a temporary location (save paths)
3. Go to the directory you extracted, navigate to subdirectory "install". There is a batch file here called INSTALL_WRAPPER.bat. Run it (note that this is a plain-text file, you can have a look through it if you like). It will create a directory under C: called XPDLL and copy several original DLLs from your system32 directory to XPDLL directory, and rename them with _ORG.dll (ex kernel32.dll becomes kernel32_ORG.dll). It also adds an environment variable which will allow EXEs and other DLLS to look in this folder when looking for a DLL.
4. After the files have copied, the wrapper will also modify some registry settings so that certain 'known' DLLs which would normally only be looked for in C:\WINNT\system32 can now also be found in other directories (specifically, the directory just created in 3.)
5. Go back to the temporary directory where you extracted the wrapper pack, and go to the bin subdirectory. There are a number of DLLs here named kernel32 etc, plus a new one called uxtheme.dll. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PUT THESE IN SYSTEM32 FOLDER EVER. Navigate to your eve installation and find the subdirectory called win. There will be lots of DLLs in here. Copy and paste all the DLLs wrapper's bin directory into this folder (ini file isn't necessary). I also suggest copying these somewhere else safe, as every time the repair tool is run your proxy DLLs will get wiped out
6. Try running eve now. If it crashes, shows for only a second or you only get the splash screen, download Dependency Walker and profile the exefile.exe to find out if you're missing anything else
Please note though that, on my machine at least, char creator doesn't work which may or may not be a result of using win2k.
V
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.12 22:46:00 -
[12]
Vmir, thanks for the tip and the detailed post. It's good to know such options are available. Always good to have another trick up your sleeve. I'll keep that in mind.
Sturmwolke, my original plan - was to put that 3850 in the machine Win2k is on and install XP to run it - but when I tried to load XP on the hard drives - it couldn't see them. I had the driver on a floppy, loaded the driver - but it didn't work. They're SATA drives and this was an early SATA controller. I tried to get updated drivers for the controller and couldn't find any.
Originally, I had two identical hard drives in two different machines - to get the other to work - I put both the drives XP wouldn't talk to in the Win2k machine and used ATA drives in the one I put XP on to use that 3850 card.
So - the incompatibility may really be with the SATA controller on the Motherboard rather than with the drives themselves. If I put these drives in a different machine - that machine might run XP ... who knows.
One of the biggest problems I've had with working with old systems is that you really start having trouble getting updated drivers and such if some part is out of support.
Thanks for the info guys.
. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.13 01:40:00 -
[13]
Oh that issue. Yes, SATAs were definitely a pain in the ass for XP. Disabling SATA native mode/AHCI/RAID in the BIOS will make things a lot easier .. if you haven't already.
Rambling on, if I'm forced to do some plumbing, I'd take the opportunity to put W7 if the machine can run it (which should not have issues with SATA drives). When CCP releases Incarna ... I have no idea how they will be handling the duality where lower spec machines that runs Eve fine, then player entering fps mode where it'll either kill it or make it un-playable. I'm expecting another episode of griefing - CCP vs players' GPU (and possibly CPU).
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.13 03:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Oh that issue. Yes, SATAs were definitely a pain in the ass for XP. Disabling SATA native mode/AHCI/RAID in the BIOS will make things a lot easier .. if you haven't already.
Rambling on, if I'm forced to do some plumbing, I'd take the opportunity to put W7 if the machine can run it (which should not have issues with SATA drives). When CCP releases Incarna ... I have no idea how they will be handling the duality where lower spec machines that runs Eve fine, then player entering fps mode where it'll either kill it or make it un-playable. I'm expecting another episode of griefing - CCP vs players' GPU (and possibly CPU).
Yeah. Thanks I might just try that. I'll still have to move that graphics card though or go through this again when they go to Shader 3 as the card in there now won't support it.
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Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Aderata Nonkin
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Posted - 2011.02.14 11:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk The spec's on the machine aren't the issue.
ROFLMAO.
Listen bud, if you want any sort of help from us you should at least post the specs. The issue might be your crappy attitude, at least the specs might help someone else with similar problem.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.02.14 19:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 14/02/2011 19:15:08
Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk The spec's on the machine aren't the issue.
ROFLMAO.
Listen bud, if you want any sort of help from us you should at least post the specs. The issue might be your crappy attitude, at least the specs might help someone else with similar problem.
Now you listen bud. You don't know jack **** about this.
I had a simple question I needed answered.
I'd already figured out that the problem was PROBABLY Win2k from the nature of the error message - which I DID post. The error message was relevant - to someone who knew what they were talking about - since it showed what system call the thing choked on. The hardware the system was running on WAS ****ING IRRELEVANT. Are you to stupid to see that - smart guy?
I just needed someone to confirm whether or not they could run the latest release under Win2k. I had figured out the problem the second I saw that error - but - my experience has shown me that if you THINK you know the problem - it doesn't hurt to check with someone else - and I got that confirmation.
Once I got that confirmed - I could solve the problem.
Where the God Damn Hell is it written that you can't ask a simple question? Hunh? Where?
Where is it written that every single, solitary question must be accompanies by a full read out of every piece of hardware and software that is loaded on the system?
The ISSUE here - was - Win2k, despite the fact that CCP had ceased supporting it years ago - still ran EVE up until the last update. Now - because of modifications to the code - Win2k - without help mentioned above - will not run it.
THAT is what a new person would get out of this.
A clear, concise answer to that question was all that was needed.
Now ... myself and others had some technical discussions about other issues related to HOW I would solve the problem - and - there was some relevance to the specs for the machine at that time. But there was no need for the specs to answer the basic question of this thread.
Maybe it's YOU who needs to adjust their attitude. You seem to think that everyone who asks a question here is stupid. Well I can tell you what is stupid - and that is ignoring the question that was asked and automatically asking for specs - instead of just answering the question - or keeping quiet.
Nobody knows everything. I worked on computers for over twenty years and have built hundreds of systems - and I don't know everything - so - if I've got a question - I'm going to ask other people who might have the answer. But - just because I have a question - doesn't mean I need to post all the specs for the machine in question.
Just because you've helped people solve computer problems - doesn't automatically mean you're smarter than they are - it means you have a different job. When I provided technical support for people - the first thing I did - was show them some respect. If I found out they didn't know something - I explained it to them. I did not start out assuming they were an idiot who needed to follow my mindless procedures to solve the problem.
If you're in a job like that - you may want to think about the attitude YOU convey to your users. They'll be a lot more open with you and a lot less hesitant to ask for help when they need it - if you don't try and intimidate them. If you work in technical support - YOUR JOB - is to assist THEM. THEY are the ones who are doing the real work - you're just there as technical SUPPORT. Keep that in mind the next time you start feeling superior to a user who asks a simple question.
I have worked with some truly brilliant human beings - who could ask some seemingly dumb questions - but that was just because they didn't happen to know something I did.
So - NO. If I want help - I'll ask for it - and I will provide RELEVANT information. But the next time some some self appointed expert needlessly asks for my specs - he's going to get about the same answer.
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Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Epic Commander
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Posted - 2011.02.14 22:16:00 -
[17]
I wonder if Wine is working on windows 2000 server XD
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