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Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.02.26 11:33:00 -
[61]
Theological and political debates aside....
Congratulations on your temporary success.
I hope you will defend it as well as you gloated about it.
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Kahar Dex
Amarr
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.26 15:53:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
Originally by: Rytha Main
...It is difficult arguing with a simpleton like Mr. Ixiris. He can not understand a society where reality is grounded in absolutes. The relativstic concept of "justice" to a Gallentean changes day to day and in accordance with their own agendas.
I suppose eventually he will stop basing his beliefs on what he hears from the Federal Bureau of Make-Believe.
At least I hope so.
You have high hopes indeed Lord Mokk. The more Mr. Ixiris speaks, that much larger of a fool he seems. Should he ever be captured by loyalist forces, we ought to decide on a suitable internment for him.The slave populace which I hold tend to be more educated than he, so he might not be such a suitable fit.
Would KPV be able to put him to work out in Querious? I can imagine you might have need of additions to your labor force given the successful nature of your recent campaigns in that region. 
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Devok Jumarin
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Posted - 2011.02.27 04:35:00 -
[63]
When I was a youth, there was an old Minmatar storyteller. He was a former pilot who had become horribly addicted to boosters. During one of his less lucid moments he claimed to have visited by an avatar of a great and powerful spirit. The spirit took the form of his favorite Minmatar dish, long Torqual with ground up chunks of Korba meat. He claimed that this was the One True God of all people, and was responsible for all of the wondrous doings in the universe.
To this day :
Originally by: Rytha Main
Even the most intelligent of the non-believers would admit that none have come close to disproving the existence of the One True God, and would thus never come close to such ignorant talk.
Your argument yields a horribly imperfect result, as even the small Minmatar children used to laugh about the 'magic god of Torqual with Korba' that the crazy old man worshiped. But I am loath to discount the possibility that Minmatar children have a better grasp of the universe than your blinded minds are capable of.
Long live the Tribe!
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.02.27 05:54:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kahar Dex
You have high hopes indeed Lord Mokk. The more Mr. Ixiris speaks, that much larger of a fool he seems. Should he ever be captured by loyalist forces, we ought to decide on a suitable internment for him.The slave populace which I hold tend to be more educated than he, so he might not be such a suitable fit.
Would KPV be able to put him to work out in Querious? I can imagine you might have need of additions to your labor force given the successful nature of your recent campaigns in that region.
I don't see him as being especially foolish, just blinded by Federation propaganda.
I would actually consider inviting him to visit my world, speak with my slaves and visit my ancestral lands. There are great cultural differences between our two people, but I think if he saw for himself how things are, he might view Khanid and eventually the Empire in a different light.
Sadly, out current state of war means I could not guarantee his safety or prevent his immediate arrest. But in the fullness of time, it would not be impossible to host a Federal diplomatic delegation. In the meantime, we can pray for his corrupted soul and through our words and actions, show him that the Empire is far different than what he has been lead to believe. If he should die beforehand`well, that would be GodFs Will.
Serving the Dark Amarr |
Major JSilva
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:04:00 -
[65]
So another system falls in the stalemate war. They tend to change hands every couple weeks if I'm not mistaken and I remember the Amarr Militia taking 5 systems in a couple days once and not announcing like its the turn of the tide.
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:36:00 -
[66]
It is not a stalemate war. And it's not without importance. If you play some ball-games the ball will not lie forever on one side. And it is not of no importance if one side wins or not. It will never be the last game, yes. It is of no importance if you do not care about, yeah. Ignorance is bliss? Not how I see it. There are people down there. People that deserve freedom.
Many loyalists do care. Many freedom fighters. Is the claiming of a station or a system in zerosec "forever"? Is it of any real earth shattering importance? I doubt that. It's more like: "Haha, we got your station, dudes". Nobody cares who is not part of that. Systems switch there on a daily base. So just drop this **** about "it's of no importance", I can't hear it anymore because it's really stupid. Idiocracy is coming. It is important for the people who care. And you have to care about something or you should better put a bullet through your head and give yourself and all of us some silence. Nothing worse than people that don't care about anything but themselves and still are allowed to breathe. And if you don't care for something show at least the respect that there might be other people around than your own ego and other causes worth fighting for than your own. There is no last truth. There is no final cause. There is no god.
And the reason that the tides are in favor of Minmatar at the moment are first of all some very dedicated pilots who earn all the respect for that. Second the breakdown of two major factors who did care about the plexes and the occupation of systems on Amarr side. Two very important factors that were putting most of the presence on the field that are required after the infamous "hour of prayers".
The Tribal Militia is dominating this important time at the moment. And there are people fighting hard for this. So the system will fall. And this will go on for a while.
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FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Shria Unegen
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:47:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Shria Unegen on 27/02/2011 12:47:39
All that war and bickering makes my heart bleed.
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Nicoletta Mithra
Amarr
Ordo Novus Mul-Zatah
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Posted - 2011.02.27 12:50:00 -
[68]
At first I'd like to follow Marshal Mintor and extend my congratulations to the TLF.
Having done this, I'd like to adress Cpt. Wildfire:
Certainly this war is not without importance. Even if it is a stalemate war. Though I'd like to remind you that war is not a game. This is not about on which side the ball comes to lie: Your comparsion is ill picked, exactly because the importance of a war is so great because it is not a game.
Your name fits you well: You seem to be swept away by the emotions of the moment, cheering for your team as if war were a game. I understand that and it's not easy to resist this urge. In a war though, it would be wise if both parties keep their calm. Not only because that's a good strategy, but also because the civilian populace on both sides benefit from it. They are the ones that make the war important. And thus the final cause of war is clear: "We make war, so that we may live in peace." Peace is the end of war.
Certainly: The dedicated pilots that made the momentary dominance of the TLF in these hours real, deserve respect for that. And they'd get this deserved respect if they'd show an understanding for why war is waged and the resolve and ability to bring this war to an end: that is, bring peace. Their call for blood though cast doubt on their ability to live peacefully, though. Thus respect is withhold.
So, while there is importance in the fact who's dominating and which systems fall to whom. But all this importance fails to be realized if this isn't in service to the end of war. Whoever brings peace - lasting peace - is the one who deserves praise. So why should anyone respect people who wage war to wage even more war or being able to slaughter others for their blood?
Fly safe, Captain Wildfire.
Kind regards,
N. Mithra
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.02.27 14:19:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 27/02/2011 14:27:28
I think you misunderstood my statement. I know perfectly well that there is no game going on and that this is a bloody war. I have been fighting about Lantorn and other systems. And I'm not a captain, but a Valklear General. And this rank I didn't gain by flying missions for money but by fighting for systems. I did it together with General Sasawong and others.
So there is no need to tell me what's going on out there.
But a lot of capsuleers seem to see it like a game. "Stalemate" and in their ignorance of the truth of our freedom fight against the war that brought the "Reclaiming" of Jamyl Sarum over us they do not see nothing but a game in that. Capsuleers often put themselves above the people. See in the people not the cause for which we exist but see them as tools to play with.
This is contrary to the conviction I stand for.
For me a war is never a game. But I try to keep the thing "fair" when I can. I try to keep honor and if it is just my own honor up. Fairness is something that has no place in a real war. It is just about extinction some say. But if we do not see the human in our enemy are we still able to see the human in ourself?
So I deal with my enemy how I like that they deal with me. This in fact is not about war. This is humanism. And with accepting rules you might see a game in it. Without going to neglect the truth: it's a war. And with accepting certain rules it is both.
Games are not for fun. They are serious. There is a purpose they serve in the construction of our existence. A cat does play with a mouse? Just look a second time. She's not playing games at all. She's training for the next. Games are serious business and not a thing for kids. A thing gets aspects of a game when you accept that there are rules. If you are not doing everything that is possible.
And with this we respect our enemies we in the end respect ourself.
War is no game. But I'd prefer a war that is kept on a level of honor and where rules apply to the carnage. I am a follower of idea of the goddess Athena, not of Ares, well of cause the Matari pendant, but you Amarr and Caldari will understand better "Athena", I guess. I follow the idea -the spirit- does not mean I believe in her existence. Before someone is going to try to split this hair. I'm an atheist.
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FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Pax Thar
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.02.27 14:56:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Certainly: The dedicated pilots that made the momentary dominance of the TLF in these hours real, deserve respect for that. And they'd get this deserved respect if they'd show an understanding for why war is waged and the resolve and ability to bring this war to an end: that is, bring peace. Their call for blood though cast doubt on their ability to live peacefully, though. Thus respect is withhold.
So, while there is importance in the fact who's dominating and which systems fall to whom. But all this importance fails to be realized if this isn't in service to the end of war. Whoever brings peace - lasting peace - is the one who deserves praise. So why should anyone respect people who wage war to wage even more war or being able to slaughter others for their blood?
There can be no peace except through Matari victory. You speak of peace, yet you know that is not possible without the release of all Minmatar being held under the horrors of bondage. Blood is life, and through this war we seek an exchange of blood, yours for my brothers and sisters you hold. I will gladly spill the blood of ANY Amarr if it brings me closer to my only goal.
To end this war your Empress must free our kind once and for all, so do not lecture on bringing peace, for your peace is one where all Minmatar wear chains. I have faced the honest a brutal truth that we are indeed blood enemies and that this war can not end without the capitulation of one side or another. So while I do respect the Amarr for their ability, they are but a roadblock that must be destroyed for the survival of my people.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:38:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kahar Dex
Should he ever be captured by loyalist forces, we ought to decide on a suitable internment for him.The slave populace which I hold tend to be more educated than he, so he might not be such a suitable fit.
Would KPV be able to put him to work out in Querious? I can imagine you might have need of additions to your labor force given the successful nature of your recent campaigns in that region.
These fantasies you people are having about me are hilarious whenever they aren't marginally creepy.
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Andreus Ixiris
CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Nicoletta Mithra
Amarr
Ordo Novus Mul-Zatah
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Posted - 2011.02.27 21:17:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra on 27/02/2011 21:22:19
Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra on 27/02/2011 21:17:17
Valklear General Wildfire,
hopefully you will accept my apologies that I didn't adress you by your full and correct title. I wasn't aiming at demonstrating a lack of knowledge about what's going on in the warzone. I merely was pointing out that I think that likening war to a game is nothing one should do when comparing one or the other.
And I stand by that. For the 'games' a cat plays are no games, we only name them that because they seem to be. As you say: "She's not playing games at all. She's training for the next." Humans on the other hand play games. And they do it mainly for fun. That's part of what it means to be able to live peacefully: Being able to spend time with pleasurable activities to relax yourself.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
But a lot of capsuleers seem to see it like a game. "Stalemate" and in their ignorance of the truth of our freedom fight against the war that brought the "Reclaiming" of Jamyl Sarum over us they do not see nothing but a game in that. Capsuleers often put themselves above the people. See in the people not the cause for which we exist but see them as tools to play with.
Here I have to agree: And it's something that is done on both sides of the fence. There not only what you hold to be the truth of your freedom fight is ignored. Ignorance is also found on both sides. Unfortunately capsuleers forget all too often that they themselves are merely people.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
(...) But if we do not see the human in our enemy are we still able to see the human in ourself?
So I deal with my enemy how I like that they deal with me. This in fact is not about war. This is humanism. (...)
And with this we respect our enemies we in the end respect ourself.
Though I wouldn't say it's a question of something complex as 'humanism' but simply of acting justly, I have to say you put this into quite the right perspective. I'm happy to see that you're seeing it like that: I have to admit I had my doubts, as you seemed to support those that make it very clear that they don't go by the same standards.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
War is no game. But I'd prefer a war that is kept on a level of honor and where rules apply to the carnage.
And I think that is just accomplished by staying calm, listening to your emotions but not allow yourself to be led by them, but instead use reason in discerning what to do and what not to do. That also implies not to give rationality the lead: You can organize a carnage in quite a rational manner, but I don't see how that could happen reasonably - there is no reasonable carnage.
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
I am a follower of idea of the goddess Athena, (...) Before someone is going to try to split this hair. I'm an atheist.
But I'm not just an atheist but also a Matari girl. (...) (Frigg) is a nasty goddess that doesn't obey anyone, (...) she's the one that's leading me, that's sending me into battle. And returning with the frozen corpses of the slain over my saddle, I mean in my hangar. (...)
By the way our "friday" is Frigg's day. It's obtained in "freien", which means asking for marriage and many more. Suck that Amarr. Where is your god? Not in our language and not in our minds and spirits, that's for sure.
Interesting: A Matari starting to debate the existence of god(s). Do you believe idea(l)s exist? - Well, it's your decision what to believe and to follow whatever idea you want. I wouldn't pick a nasty idea(l), though. Anyway: Your "friday" is my "para\tuj".
Regards,
N. Mithra
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.02.28 04:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nicoletta Mithra
Interesting: A Matari starting to debate the existence of god(s). Do you believe idea(l)s exist? - Well, it's your decision what to believe and to follow whatever idea you want. I wouldn't pick a nasty idea(l), though. Anyway: Your "friday" is my "para\tuj".
I think there is a basic misunderstanding. I do not talk about the existence of gods, nor do I believe in the existence of idols or ideals.
It is something completely different to live by certain standards and to starting to believe that those standards are actually running around and patting on your shoulder when you did right.
I never said that I do not have a spiritual component in my personality. I just said that I'm an atheist. I do not believe in any god or other form of higher being. I do not believe in and form of personification and also don't believe that there is something that is listening to prayers. There is no higher force that is swinging mystical around and that has given birth to all of us. No gods. Just us.
This is very important.
But of cause I do believe in the truth of certain mindsets that are actually not existing at all like an atom is existing (which is something some physicist also start debating about, by the way). We can talk about the true nature of existence, which is not totally clear, yes. But even if I believe in mindsets like honor and pride and justice you won't find those things even if you disassemble the whole universe on a subatomar level. It is not existent. But of cause this does not mean that they do not make any sense.
See it like software. Software is not existent. It's just a form of configuration. It's a mindset. Some people believe that they can package certain mindsets and sell them and I believe that is a very stupid idea, but that's an other issue. Maybe it's not. But I won't talk about that here.
It's about mindsets that people begin to personify. People have the irritating ability to give certain states a name. Like DEATH. And in the moment they give something a name some people actually start to believe that this thing has to exist. It has a name. It must be a thing. Or a person. Of cause! So they begin to worship that thing. Or deal with them as if they were real. Unicorns for example. Or the great spaghetti monster from Abudban asteroid belts. (There is something real about that in fact, if you ask some local miners`)
So just the fact that you can name a thing doesn't make it real. But still some mindsets, some concepts do actually make sense. They are in alignment with reality. They are concepts of survival, of social structure. We are fighting for freedom and for justice. Those are very real values. Which does not mean that I can cut you a slice of them. Mindsets are packages of values. Values are ways to deal with each other and with yourself which are logical, which follow a certain aspect of personality and are "True" in the way that there is logic in them and that there is wisdom in them.
Now back to our "gods", to my ideals. The concept of goddess Frigg for example can be found in many religions. It is a certain way of living that is incorporated in that. A way of living that I try to do. If I say I follow Frigg I do not mean that I believe in the existence of a goddess as a higher being. There is no god. But following a certain path is hard to describe. And to make it plausible to other people this idols are made for.
And when we tell stories about what happened to these idols and how idols interacted in our ancient tales this actually tells a story how certain mindsets can begin to come in conflict.
There is a big conflict between Athena and Ares for example. Or Frigg and Thor or Wotan. The conflict is better to see, I think, between Athena and Ares. Athena the girl-warrior is fighting the war of defense. She's smart and cunning. Ares is the god of war and carnage. The god of bloodshed, rape and madness.
--cont--
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FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar
Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.02.28 04:34:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 28/02/2011 04:36:42
--cont--
This conflict of mindsets can be seen everywhere. The reason to fight a war. Why do we fight and how to we fight. So these gods are "true" in their wisdom. But not "true" in their existence of beings. They are valid. It makes sense to act according to them. To make them an example.
Most warriors -really most- follow Ares or Thor. The Reclaiming is a war that is started in his name. It's madness.
But our stories always tell us that those conflicts only know one outcome. Frigg will win. And this is also true not because I like to see this happen. It is true because such things have happened so often and always ended this way. Frigg always wins. She never lost a war. Hers are halve of the dead bodies of the fight. Odin gets the rest.
But all heros hope that their dead bodies will collected by the Valkyries, who are riding on the battlefields to collect the best and bring them to Frigg. Why? Because her cause is justice and it's the greatest value to serve her. This is why we girls of F.I.A. collect the bodies of the fallen. We carry them home. In her name. Ask Prety Zinta about that and about pods.
To serve the idea behind that. To give your life for this. Give your life for freedom, for love, for community, for justice and peace. Because Frigg is a defender.
But do not take the Valkyries as some flower power girls that come and play harps and sing for the slain. They ride and they slay, they are warrior girls and they are awesome. They are beauty, they are wild, they are daring and dashing.
Many people think of Valkyries as fat women with horned helms, actually I have no idea why. Pathetic. Take a look at their mistress, take a look at Frigg and Athena, which is basically the same. No man could resist them. They are girl-warriors. And there is nothing that can stop them.
Do you begin to understand how those ideals work? Why I follow this path? It is a spiritual path of concepts. Where the concepts itself are not real they are indeed true. Unlike the god of the Amarr, which claims to exist.
He doesn't. And he is even weaker than our gods. Why? Because the only concept for which he is standing for is justify for a hierarchical society where one leads and only one. Not the symbol of a community. He is the ultimate master and everybody else is just his slave. There is no freedom under this tyrant. He's in a way a very mad and out of control of Ares. With all his cruelty with slavery as a tool, with all the deaths of our kind and the blood of my kin dripping from his clothes.
And we will bring him down. Like always. Heyato! Heyato! Heyato!
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FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Nicoletta Mithra
Amarr
Ordo Novus Mul-Zatah
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Posted - 2011.03.01 02:06:00 -
[75]
General Wildfire,
first of all many thanks for the effort you put in your lengthy reply. I understood fairly well, though, that you don't believe in the existence of gods, that you're a reductionist in that regard that subscribes to a theory of archetypes. You could have spared your breath in that regard, also regarding your statements pertaining to your pretty overgeneralizing opinions of equating one god to the other and the monotheistic god to the "Ares/Mars/Thor"-archetype. I think you miss that the concept of a monotheistic god is a critique of such archetypal conceptions. But I don't want to discuss that with you as you made your opinion on all that pretty clear. You talk about the non-existence of gods, while at the same time proposing that they're explained by archetypes. Thus you're debating in how far "gods" exist or not, have reality or not, etc. There wasn't much space that you've left for misunderstandings of your answers to these questions - even in your first response to me here. Though, honestly, I don't know why you brought the topic of god(s) up at all. But I have to admit that I was intrigued by that.
Now you tell me, that idea(l)s also don't exist: Just as software. Still ideals can be true, you say, can make sense or all the like. But what is making sense there? What is true? If that which is true - the idea(l) - does not exist then there is nothing that is true! Not even configurations of matter are existing if you really think that software doesn't exist, because as you say, software is a configuration of matter.
You have very weird metaphysics and ontology going on there, if I may say so. How can something that does not exist, that is nothing have a truth value - or anything else for the matter? Also: If Software doesn't exist, that is configurations of matter, than it follows that you don't exist (as person or individuum). All that exists is, according to such a concept of existence, pure matter.
Very weird indeed. But certainly spiffy.
Still, you have to do better than that if you want to discredit the monotheistic god and make a cause for your psychologistic conception of gods as archetypes. Which seems to be what you aim at. But I'm not really sure about your aims.
Anyways, as I said: I don't care much for what your gods are - or aren't.
To get back to the point of this thread: Someone who doesn't achieve victories in a war to achieve peace, doesn't deserve much respect for that. Captain Thar made pretty clear that he doesn't wish peace with Amarr. Thus, nobody should complain about a lack of respect for him, his accomplishments and especially for his words here.
Kindly,
N. Mithra
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