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Alexi Komanov
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:04:00 -
[1]
Quite simply, is it worth it, or am I just better off getting an Oneiros?
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Cambarus
Thunderfury Blessed Blade of the Windseeker
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:16:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Alexi Komanov Quite simply, is it worth it, or am I just better off getting an Oneiros?
You're going to get laughed at for even suggesting flying an oneiros, let alone flying one rather than flying a guardian. |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:17:00 -
[3]
It's worth it if you have another guardian to fly with.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:44:00 -
[4]
Oneiros is worth flying for one reason:
If you're a cheap *** flying with an Incursion fleet, guardians always get primaried over an Oneiros.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:49:00 -
[5]
Oneiros and Guardians make good teams for small gang. Oneiros fit eccm casters and jamming isnt much of an issue, otherwise you are wide open to ecm drones. Bring one Oneiros for every two Guardians.
For large gang just bring all Guardians. Nobody cares if 4 of your 30 Guardians are jammed.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.23 23:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Aamrr Oneiros is worth flying for one reason:
If you're a cheap *** flying with an Incursion fleet, guardians always get primaried over an Oneiros.
The Ony isn't nearly as bad as people give it **** for. Yeah it could use a bit of help, but it isn't that bad.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.02.24 00:35:00 -
[7]
Fair point. It is worth noting that the scimitar lacks an equivalent of the remote repair augmentor, a rig which reduces cap on remote armor modules by 20 (!!!) percent.
As such, the oneiros has a little bit easier time being cap stable. In addition, the extra mid slots make using the oneiros's tracking link bonus much more viable.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.24 00:51:00 -
[8]
The Ony can reasonably fit and permanrun 4 RRs and an active tank. While being nanod.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:10:00 -
[9]
Guardians are total win if you have 2 or more of them working together with remote energy transfers to generate cap between them.
If you are just a single logistics ship, the Oneiros is better. also, as has already been said, Guardians get primaried and people tend to overlook Oneiros (at least for a while)
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Valea Silpha
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.02.24 13:10:00 -
[10]
Both Oneiros and Guardians are good ships and have their uses. The oneiros's use is much less obvious, but it still has a place.
Guardians are the workhorse or amour RR. So yeah, definitely train them. 90% of the time they are what people want you to fly.
On the other hand oneiros are a good back up to a squad of guardians. They don't need a cap chain to work, which makes them much less vulnerable to jamming (ie because you can shut down 2 guardians by jamming 1). I like to see an oneiros for every 3 guardians, or something like that. You don't want ALL oneiros, but having some is a good thing. They get the same reps (just about), have FAR better scope for local ECCM and projected stuff (ECCM and occasionally sebos if you lurk in low-sec), and as well as being easier to make difficult to jam, they are also need different jammers, which sucks for whoever is trying to fight you.
I dunno that I can make a good oneiros fit with 4 large reps perma-running, but you can get to 3 large with a cap booster to let you run 4 till your hold is dry and still be solid enough to go pvping.
Basically, the oneiros is underrated tbh. I love both my guardians, but I love my oneiroses just as much. The trick is knowing which to bring out.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.02.24 17:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Alexi Komanov Quite simply, is it worth it, or am I just better off getting an Oneiros?
You're going to get laughed at for even suggesting flying an oneiros, let alone flying one rather than flying a guardian.
You're going to get laughed at for not knowing one Oneiros is much better than one Guardian.
Yes, logistics are better the more you have but sometimes you only have/need one.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.02.24 19:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aamrr on 24/02/2011 19:36:59
Originally by: Valea Silpha They don't need a cap chain to work, which makes them much less vulnerable to jamming (ie because you can shut down 2 guardians by jamming 1).
If your guardians let this happen, they are fscking idiots. Hint: Fly them in triads, not pairs.
Edit: Wtf?! CCP's profanity filter is seriously overzealous.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aamrr Edited by: Aamrr on 24/02/2011 19:36:59
Originally by: Valea Silpha They don't need a cap chain to work, which makes them much less vulnerable to jamming (ie because you can shut down 2 guardians by jamming 1).
If your guardians let this happen, they are fscking idiots. Hint: Fly them in triads, not pairs.
Edit: Wtf?! CCP's profanity filter is seriously overzealous.
So now 3 of the 4 people in my gang need to fly Guardians.... got it.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Aamrr on 24/02/2011 20:25:10 Logistics is a force multiplier. It kinda helps if there's actually a force to multiply. In case this point hasn't been made painfully clear already, the guardian works better in large groups. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
The Oneiros is a nice way of circumventing that, but does not scale as well as guardians do, and is far less neut resistant.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 24/02/2011 20:37:50
Originally by: Aamrr
Logistics is a force multiplier. It kinda helps if there's actually a force to multiply. In case this point hasn't been made painfully clear already, the guardian works better in large groups. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
The Oneiros is a nice way of circumventing that, but does not scale as well as guardians do, and is far less neut resistant.
I guess it comes down to this question: if you are given 2 guys with logi 5 and well fit Ony/Guardians, would you tell them to fly the Ony or Guardian for your small gang? If they fly the Guardian, are they "fscking idiots" for both of them getting taken out of the fight when one gets jammed?
From my perspective...
The Ony: - Reps the same amount as a 4 RR Guardian (the most common one) - Is more mobile - Is less vulnerable to hostile ewar (mids for MWD/AB+ECCM+Cap Booster) - Has more drones for defense or offense
The Guardian: - Has more HP - Transfers cap beyond just cap buddies - Has more staying power in large fights
-Liang
Ed: My position here isn't to denigrate the Guardian.. I loves my Guardian. But I think the Ony is dramatically underutilized. :) -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.02.24 20:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aamrr on 24/02/2011 20:46:17 To be honest, Liang, I think I'm in agreement with you. We've just had different scales of engagement in mind.
If you have ONLY two pilots and are not anticipating heavy neut pressure, then I feel quite confident that an Oneiros pair is going to perform better. If you have the luxury of three logistics, then I'm going to prefer my guardian.
Is that a fair assessment?
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.24 21:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aamrr Edited by: Aamrr on 24/02/2011 20:46:17 To be honest, Liang, I think I'm in agreement with you. We've just had different scales of engagement in mind.
If you have ONLY two pilots and are not anticipating heavy neut pressure, then I feel quite confident that an Oneiros pair is going to perform better. If you have the luxury of three logistics, then I'm going to prefer my guardian.
Is that a fair assessment?
Sure, I can buy that.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.02.24 21:51:00 -
[18]
Ony + armour Minmatar = <3
Guardian + any other armour = <3 (cause THEY need cap to use their guns)
Nothing wrong with the Oneiros at all
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