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Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.02.28 18:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 18:17:06 I couldn't find an (unlocked) DEDICATED (hush) thread about the local channel but it's being discussed as a sideline in a number of threads and has been discussed in detail long ago in a galaxy far, far away... and our local still sucks.
Now: my copypasta'ed proposal. I have picked up elements from a few suggestions. No plagiarism intended. Also, fee free to share your own ideas and opinions, and, if you have the mental capacity, give reasons for disagreeing or point out the flaws with this suggestion.
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I think peoples appearance in local should be delayed. It's a very easy fix. The duration of the delay should inversely correlate to the systems sec. (10minutes - sec. x 10)
1.0 = 0 minutes 0.6 = 4 minutes 0.2 = 8 minutes 0.0 = 10 minutes before you show up in local automatically.
Of course the exact base delay is subject to debate, but there should be time to do something in a system and leave before you show up - depending on sec.
There should be additional means to get people to show up immediately, but it should take a bit of effort. You only see (in local): People you actually see or saw in system (you have their transponder code; visible till they leave system) People you scanned down (you have their transponder code; visible till they leave system) (details to be discussed) People who talk in local (they send their transponder code) Allies, corp mates & fleet members should, obviously, also be always visible.
The time delay alongside this is easy to explain: After tha many minutes your passive scanner should either have picked up their signal, or the infrastructure (like stations and gates) did.. but they take some time to spread this information in lower sec. systems.
This hopefully will: Irritate botters. Help pirates and carebears alike do their thing. Revitalize low-sec by not having your presence revealed instantly. Limit 'easy intelligence' and add more efficient covered modes of operation to 0.0 warfare.
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Nothing in this post is supposed to be set in stone. Please note that I'm not a specialist on the matter, so I don't address questions regarding cloaks and such here. I'm certain that will be a point of contention anyways.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.02.28 19:45:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 28/02/2011 19:47:04
10 minutes base delay is way way way too much for your idea imo.
Make it one minute, that still leaves you with 30sec or more in .5 and below which is plenty enough to foil deaggro games or insta-safespot isk botfarming.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:43:00 -
[3]
10 minutes is waaaayyyyy to long.... It basically makes local a tool for the attacker only then. 10m is too short to do any real PvE activity, and most PvP gangs spend much less than 10m in a system. What happens if you leave local within the 10 minute time frame.
A reasonable time would be about 10 seconds. With such a time, a quality tackler can use d-scan/probes to scan down belts/anomalies and be in warp if not on grid by the time they appear in local. Everyone would appear in local, as a 30s session change timer makes it impossible to leave system before appearing in local. Also, this would also allow a ship/gang a few extra key seconds of flee time between entering a system and being reported in system.
While this would make it harder on ratters, they could still take many steps to help insure their safety (Aligning to a celestial after landing at a belt/anomaly; Warping into the belts/anomalies at range; intel channels providing reports from nearby systems, etc).
Note: A 10 sec delay would be a significant boost to hunters, a 10 min delay would constitute unlubed anal rapage with a chainsaw!
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Fistme
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Posted - 2011.02.28 20:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Fistme on 28/02/2011 20:56:08 Edited by: Fistme on 28/02/2011 20:55:14 Not support even a little bit.
The solution to local has nothing to do with changing current local mechanics. The solution instead lies in the addition of a new scanning feature that would passively scan a sphere around your location and alert you when ships have entered or left this sphere. The range of this passive scanning sphere would be based on a combination of things, skill level, ship type, and additional modules. The range that you would be detected by another players passive scanning sphere would also be based on these factors.
I also believe that gate alerts indicating ship class (not tech level) would also be needed. These gate alerts would be restricted to those that have sov of system.
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Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:05:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 21:06:58 Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 21:05:41 Thanks for the replies.
First, regarding the 10 minutes. Probably too long, way too long maybe, but it shouldn't be less than a minute I think (which is 30 seconds in 0.5).
Please try to distance yourself a bit from the idea of local providing usable/obscure intelligence by itself within seconds. It's what the changes are supposed to rid us of, making scouts and scanning much more important.
Of course I don't want to see local ruined/deleted completely like some people advocate.
By 'there should be time to do something in a system and leave before you show up (in local)' I'm not referring to mission running or anything.. but a gank/flythrough should/could be possible.
Originally by: Fistme The solution to local has nothing to do with changing current local mechanics. The solution instead lies in the addition of a new scanning feature that would passively scan a sphere around your location and alert you when ships have entered or left this sphere. The range of this passive scanning sphere would be based on a combination of things, skill level, ship type, and additional modules. The range that you would be detected by another players passive scanning sphere would also be based on these factors.
This isn't a long shot from 'my' idea, is it? If you added in modules/skills to what has been mentioned in the OP this will amount to pretty much the same sans the 'scan range' sphere around your ship.
The point of changing local isn't to give people with 150M SP even more of an advantage - it's supposed to address the 'abuse' of the local channel (really, currently it abuses itself, mostly since it's passive). In that regard it's your suggestion that blows.. but of course it could be 2x skills or so.. don't think we need more of those, tho. The whole point is to make it more difficult to judge the current situation/danger immediately without player-input simply by looking at a damn channel.
Try to figure out what's good for the game and gameplay. Not what you want.
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Br41n
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:43:00 -
[6]
bull****, if you want local delayed or removed make it the same everywhere and make wardecs interesting. highsec isnt safe space and it should never be. same restrictions everywhere ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 28/02/2011 21:53:08
Originally by: Br41n bull****, if you want local delayed or removed make it the same everywhere and make wardecs interesting. highsec isnt safe space and it should never be. same restrictions everywhere
It's not intended to make highsec more safe. It makes highsec less safe.. and highsec is supposed to be more safe than lowsec and 0.0 - I just try to continue along those lines. I also figured that the whole sensorium in high sec would be more sophisticated. Something that's probably true.
However, the tiered delay isn't necessary - a constant one would work just as well so don't get all worked up. I just figured it would make more sense this way.. with Concord and Navy ships everywhere, not to mention capsuleers. Information is bound to flow more quickly in Empire.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.02.28 22:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa
Originally by: Br41n bull****, if you want local delayed or removed make it the same everywhere and make wardecs interesting. highsec isnt safe space and it should never be. same restrictions everywhere
It's not intended to make highsec more safe. It makes highsec less safe.. and highsec is supposed to be more safe than lowsec and 0.0 - I just try to continue along those lines.
It wouldnt even necessarily mean it is more safe with a shorter delay. Highsec systems are lot more populated, that means going through the local channel to spot hostiles usually involves a lot more effort than in a nullsec or lowsec system.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.02.28 22:55:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 28/02/2011 22:55:56 I think really need local nerf but as CCP dev said before (somewhere) they won't be making changes without providing proper intel tools.
I would like see something like:
1) reduce all solar system size so all celestial is within d-scan range of sun (or increase d-scan range)
2) Change d-scan so it shows ship type, pilot name and corp/alliance ticker (not red/blue so people actually have to think/check, and as anti-bot measure so they can't just check for red pixel in d-scan ui).
3) Delayed local like wormhole...sov upgrades to introduce a timer that can make people appear 1min after entering solar system.
4) NPC sov has local based on faction standings, so with a high faction standing you either will have a delay before appearing in local and/or you will see others in local after delay.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.28 22:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Fistme Edited by: Fistme on 28/02/2011 20:56:08 Edited by: Fistme on 28/02/2011 20:55:14 Not support even a little bit.
The solution to local has nothing to do with changing current local mechanics. The solution instead lies in the addition of a new scanning feature that would passively scan a sphere around your location and alert you when ships have entered or left this sphere. The range of this passive scanning sphere would be based on a combination of things, skill level, ship type, and additional modules. The range that you would be detected by another players passive scanning sphere would also be based on these factors.
I also believe that gate alerts indicating ship class (not tech level) would also be needed. These gate alerts would be restricted to those that have sov of system.
What he said...^^^...this is along the right track of thinking. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND! |
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William Loire
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.02.28 23:59:00 -
[11]
Supported simply for the gist of the idea. 10 minutes for 0.0 is too long but you should have the proper amount of time for a trained scanner to locate a target, warp in and make an attempt at scramming the target.
Unfortunately, even though they could use other methods of gathering intel, or at least maintain alignment with a warp off point, there would be a lot of upset carebears if local were to be nerfed so the idea will probably fall on deaf ears.
How ever some sort of local nerf with the addition of manual intel gathering tools is a great idea.
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Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.03.01 00:12:00 -
[12]
I'll update the OP a bit with suggestions regarding other methods of gathering intel like skills, modules or changes/additions to the scanners, both probes and directional.
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Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.03.01 14:31:00 -
[13]
shameless selfbump
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