Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
DHB WildCat
Flash Over.
|
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:39:00 -
[1]
Alright as much as I hate to say it.... its time to bring back the nano ships and webs.
Lets face it. This is game is ever changing and tbh its one of its best qualities. So in light of the game as it is today I really believe we need to bring about the nano age part2.
Why?
Capitals Online... Its fact folks. Everyone has a capital... the best strategy these days for a small gang is hot drop them! Im not even close to kidding about that.
So nano ships would give the pilots the ability to get away from ships they have zero hope of killing, and pls dont say just to counter hot drop, that rediculous and I know most of you are thinking that, stop for a second and think about that!
So if you bring back the nanos, then obviously you have to have a way to catch them.... thus the webs would come back....
Zomg with the webs back, gallente would then be usefull again! Well its an idea to bring back small gang warfare and the gallente race as a whole!
Wild
|
Industrialist12
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Industrialist12 on 01/03/2011 00:03:39 If i could support this, i would. Interceptor fights already take the most skill(1 mistake and you die), and the nano age was that, but for more ship classes.
:Thumbs up:
Edit - i should clarify, when i said skill, i meant player skill, not skill points.
|
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:12:00 -
[3]
For me, more speed in the battlefield = more fun
Games can be balanced in numerous ways, there's no "one and only solution". The current balance is simply not as fun as it could be.
However, emphasizing speed in combat means emphasizing player skill, to the point that character skill and ship fittings become a little less important. Many people don't like that. And if some guy manages to successfully engage and escape "the blob", the people of the blob get really ****ed and whine on the forums.
To please the majority, you gotta ensure that the biggest blob always wins. And for that we need slow moving targets that can be bashed at your heart's content. Jump, lock primary, F1 F2 F3 rinse, repeat
|
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:15:00 -
[4]
Huginn and Vagabond are by far my favourite ships and have been for years. Let me say this:
Hell no, the game is much better off today. The nano age was terrible gameplay all around.
|
Tony SoXai
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tony SoXai on 01/03/2011 00:26:35 It's a lot harsher these days for the lone wolf. The majority of people who want it to stay how it is are no doubt people who gate and station camp in fleets all the time.
But a second nano age is not the answer. Perhaps it needs to be more balanced somehow, but this is not the way.
Better the way it is now than a second nano age.
|
R'adeh
Gallente Storm Solutions
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 01:00:00 -
[6]
OMG YES PLS!! Would also help to boost blasters a bit :) _______________________________________________
<Random sig with a hot chick> |
Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 01:20:00 -
[7]
For someone with a reputation as an elite PVPer, you sure do whine for your instant win buttons awfully hard.
Nano age was terrible and everybody knows it but you.
Cry more. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
|
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 01:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Terianna Eri For someone with a reputation as an elite PVPer, you sure do whine for your instant win buttons awfully hard.
Nano age was terrible and everybody knows it but you.
Cry more.
Anyone who throws the term "win button" around is an idiot that doesn't understand the game. Everything dies in EVE, no matter how good and overpowered it is - it always dies eventually. There has never been a real "iWin" button in EVE. Things have always been unbalanced one way or another, but never enough for something to be invulnerable or unbeatable.
|
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 01/03/2011 02:11:02 Let me pose this question: what happens to all ships that don't nano well and are best heavily tanked? Oh right, might as well delete from game because there is no way that abaddon doing 600m/s is going to take out that shield tanked phoon doing 6km/s. The nano age was broken. If you want nano, you can still have it. There are many ships in the game that still nano effectively: vagabonds, cynabals, rapiers, curses, machariels, hurricanes and the list just keeps going. If you want to be a nano*** that bails from anything that shoots back, go do it. You have all the tools already in game, use them! But know that you aren't totally invulnerable, if you mess up. You will be scrammed, webbed and killed very quickly. I think you just want easy kills made easier.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Skexcorp
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:18:00 -
[10]
Everything in EVE is too slow in general. The space shuttle could easily outrun 90% of the ships in EVE.
a typical BS's top speed of 120m/s is a ***ping 268mph about half the speed of a passenger airliner on earth. At 2000m/s an ABing Dramiel can just about keep up with the X-15, With a overheated MWD at 9000m/s it could keep up with the space shuttle. That's just atmospheric craft. Our actual spacecraft are far faster than that. The fastest man made object the Helios satelite hit 150,000mph 67,100m/s.
I understand it's a style choice but it just seems wrong that "space craft" are that slow.
|
|
Pr1ncess Alia
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Skex Relbore Everything in EVE is too slow in general. The space shuttle could easily outrun 90% of the ships in EVE.
a typical BS's top speed of 120m/s is a ***ping 268mph about half the speed of a passenger airliner on earth. At 2000m/s an ABing Dramiel can just about keep up with the X-15, With a overheated MWD at 9000m/s it could keep up with the space shuttle. That's just atmospheric craft. Our actual spacecraft are far faster than that. The fastest man made object the Helios satelite hit 150,000mph 67,100m/s.
I understand it's a style choice but it just seems wrong that "space craft" are that slow.
Ah yes, this is a typical misconception.
New Eden meters are about 80x larger than our meters.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:39:00 -
[12]
I wouldn't mind seeing some increased speed, the nano nerf was a bit heavy handed. and a bit of a web boost, but neither to previous levels. maybe throw a bit of an agility boost to gallente ships.
|
oldmanst4r
Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:57:00 -
[13]
Edited by: oldmanst4r on 01/03/2011 02:58:44 Only if I can nano my Nyx. 1000MN microwarpdrives plz.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
|
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 03:08:00 -
[14]
The nano age isn't dead, it is easier to mantain range control and employ kiting tactics than before. Its just not the LOLOLimmuneLOLOLOLOL 9000 m/s days you dream back on. Also
:: Solution to hotdrops ::
Don't fly things that can get tackled by bait tackle, and even better.. avoid said bait tackle in the first place.
:: Not the solution to hotdrops ::
Crying on the forums ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 03:11:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 01/03/2011 03:14:16
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Terianna Eri For someone with a reputation as an elite PVPer, you sure do whine for your instant win buttons awfully hard.
Nano age was terrible and everybody knows it but you.
Cry more.
Anyone who throws the term "win button" around is an idiot that doesn't understand the game. Everything dies in EVE, no matter how good and overpowered it is - it always dies eventually. There has never been a real "iWin" button in EVE. Things have always been unbalanced one way or another, but never enough for something to be invulnerable or unbeatable.
It's a common expression and almost everyone knows that it doesn't actually mean "THIS SHIP IS UNBEATABLE AND KILLS EVERYTHING AND NEVER DIES. I say almost because there are apparently still people like you, who will happily latch onto a single phrase and spit out a typical knee-jerk reaction that makes no sense - "you said X, therefore you don't know anything about topic Y."
P.S. the old webs are already back in the game, just fly serpentis (& blood raider) ships. That shouldn't be a problem for a wealthy ELITE PVPER like yourself right?
P.P.S. OP should probably look at the angel cartel ships too, they fit nicely into the "oh dang I bit off more than I can chew, guess I better run away instead of being punished for my mistake" style that he seems to miss so much ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
|
VannyDaCruz
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 03:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: VannyDaCruz on 01/03/2011 03:30:03 Have you EVEN been to null-sec around Geminate recently? 95% of the gangs are nano. Its not like nanos are dead.
|
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 05:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: VannyDaCruz Edited by: VannyDaCruz on 01/03/2011 03:30:03 Have you EVEN been to null-sec around Geminate recently? 95% of the gangs are nano. Its not like nanos are dead.
It's not that they are true "nano", it's just that "speed" is an integral part of combat. It should not be fought against, it should be embraced
In any conflict, more speed = more power
|
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 05:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 01/03/2011 05:23:25
We'd better balance out cynoes and blobs in general (by, say, widening the gap in warp speeds, implementing some sort of simpliest penalties like of scan res and lock range). Spool-up period for cynoes is also a way to go. I'd say liting a cyno should also break and disable any lock.
Nano was just wrong. Speed should be a viable and valuable stat (and it still is), but having that much speed was just way too absurd. ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Target Painter
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 06:40:00 -
[19]
The nano age was godawful. Why would anyone want that back?
Quote: ...pls dont say just to counter hot drop, that rediculous and I know most of you are thinking that, stop for a second and think about that!
Ignoring for a second that capitals are actually horrible at tackling subcaps, I think this is why it's referred to as a "capital escalation." Side A does something to bother/annoy/stymie Side B, Side B raises the stacks by bringing in carriers. Either it's worth it for Side A to escalate at that point or it's not.
|
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 07:08:00 -
[20]
The Nano Age can make a comeback if there is a webifier that can threaten pilots using long points.
Stasis Webifier I: 18 km optimal, 40% velocity reduction. High cap cost. Significantly more CPU requirements. Stasis Webifier II: 22 km/40%
Skirmish Webifier I: 9 km optimal, 80% velocity reduction. Low cap cost. Skirmish Webifier II: 11 km optimal, 80% velocity reduction. Low cap cost.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
|
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 07:21:00 -
[21]
How about no. The current game is, ignoring the situation with capitals, so much better than in the age of nano*happy lads*. Also, why do you whine about hot dropping, but then ignore it in your solution. If hot dropping capitals is an issue to be fixed, then solution is to whack hot dropping with a nerfbat instead of intentionally breaking the game even more.
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 07:58:00 -
[22]
I thought the angel cartel ships were ccps concession to old school nano whooring?
Otherwise you can still nano up just fine with an lg snake set and some errmm nanos. You won't go lol25kms anymore but your still faster than anything else chasing you so the effect is the same without the gheyness of olde.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
|
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 08:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ephemeron It's not that they are true "nano", it's just that "speed" is an integral part of combat. It should not be fought against, it should be embraced
In any conflict, more speed = more power
"True Nano" being the invincibility code of the pre-QR times.
Range control is as important as it ever has been, and its still 100% viable tactic to employ. You just don't have the LOLOLOLOLimmuneLOLOLOLOL speeds you had in the past.
It may have been your game and you may have profited greatly for it, but the game has changed and its much more balanced now ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 09:05:00 -
[24]
pretty sure the increase in capitals is bot related so I'm not sure game mechanics should be altered for something that might get removed if ccp pulls thier thumbs out.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 09:06:00 -
[25]
The problem that the OP describes is capitals. It doesn't take a genius to work out that the solution might involve them too.
Anyway, what the hell is "nano"? Apart from some buzzword that people flash about as part of some dewy-eyed nostalgia?
Is "nano" range control? Because we still have that. Is "nano" giving a few ships the ability to go 3x the speed of their classmates? But reducing the diversity of ships flown is self-evidently bad. Is "nano" about reducing the importance of range and giving pilots the ability to make up for errors in piloting or positioning simply with sheer speed? Or is "nano" simply about making whiners' ships more powerful by tripling their speed without any commensurate decrease in agility, EHP or DPS at range?
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 09:32:00 -
[26]
I too wish for the days when missiles ment to take out frigates couldn't even keep up with cruiser hulls let alone hit them...
|
Jimmy Doe
POS Consultants Group LLC
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 09:44:00 -
[27]
I too miss the days when my crow orbiting at 20km couldnt hit a bs with light missiles because the trajectory arc for their flight was ridiculous due to my speed
"The tree of liberty is nurtured with the blood of patriots." |
Crabs Collector
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:18:00 -
[28]
It is silly to bring back the nanos as they were 2 years ago.The nano'ing made ships pretty much invincible and it looks like you just want easy kills.
Currently there is a good paper-rock-scissor system, no need to change that.
|
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 10:26:00 -
[29]
Am I the only one who thinks there should be situations where you are basically screwed? I mean one shouldn't be able to get out of situation where the odds are that you really shouldn't get out of alive. I don't think there should be a way to always have a "fix".
No to, my ship can do everything and counter everything.
Yes to, I need fly with my friend who has a longrangeship and I have a shortrange ship.
My say is, remove dualwebs and only make it possible to fit one. If you need more, then you need to use webdrones. Make them useful so that you can close the range and apply the real web onto them. At the moment it's more modules than tactics.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
|
Poaw
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 11:57:00 -
[30]
Modules are tactics.
|
|
Mdtg'ifsg Gul'is
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 12:23:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mdtg''ifsg Gul''is on 01/03/2011 12:23:23
Originally by: Ephemeron There has never been a real "iWin" button in EVE. Things have always been unbalanced one way or another, but never enough for something to be invulnerable or unbeatable.
Spoken like a true new player.
2003-2004 cyclejamming anyone? I'd consider a being able to fight one guy versus five others in equal ships and winning without a scratch a iWin button.
|
VanNostrum
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 13:40:00 -
[32]
yes yes! give HAC fleets bigger edge over BS fleets!
|
DHB WildCat
Flash Over.
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 16:51:00 -
[33]
Edited by: DHB WildCat on 01/03/2011 16:54:23 Alright Im going to write some points out I think will help my ideas... In no way am I saying im right and you are wrong, I think they are relevent is all.
1) Back in the first nano age we didnt have all the gun boosts we do now. The nano ships would still need to be around 24km to point someone. Now, Minmatar and Amarr ships have short range guns, and ammo that can hit that range and track an MWD cruiser and above. No it cannot hit a frig, but it isnt supposed to, and with a frig you tank it as you go back to a gate or station.
2) Nano ships offer diversity, however if you catch them, they insta pop. No tank and since we have ships that tackle them..... Rapier, Huginn, Arazu, Hyena, any ship with command bonus.... in point range, they offer little threat.
3) I really like the idea someone posted about how a ship lighting a cyno will lose its lock, and a warm up period for the cyno itself. This would give people a chance to escape from capital hotdrops and even black op hot drops.
4) Caldari missiles cannot hit targets now as they are. Also to fix this problem I would implement a feature of how a missile continues to gain speed as it is fired. For example a cruise missile would start out at 5km/sec. then at 20km its doing 30km/sec.... 100km 80km/sec.... ect. Someone would have to do the exact math on this, but the point is to make missiles hit quicker. Obviously sig radius would still be a factor, but this way the missiles would catch the fast targets, and if they had their mwds on, it would do some damage. Not to mention this would bring it in line with the instant damage of guns... may have to lose a little dps to keep them balanced. However I would take near instant damage over dps that takes 45 seconds to get there. Please do not fear, torps would still be highly based on sig, so they wont omg pwn every cruiser. And yes your orbiting crow would hit the target before the missile loses flight time.
Anyways all these points are meant to promote pilot skill. This game is far too dependant on numbers. In call of duty give me 5 guys with years of experience against 20 guys that just started the game. The 5 guys would win, however in eve the 20 would win because they simply have more. I really think we need to bring back some changes that promote pilot skill and good teamwork.
WildCat
|
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 18:31:00 -
[34]
Or we can keep it as it is (because its better) and simply fix rails. Gal ships do not have many issues catching things unless you do something wrong.
|
To mare
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:16:00 -
[35]
wow i cant believe im actually agree wit dhb wildcat
bring back the old speed/mass values before the last nanonerf and most important of all make polycarbon and nanofiber to reduce mass again
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:18:00 -
[36]
Someone lost a bet and/or is drunk poasting.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
|
TrimethylChromiumdioxide
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Edited by: DHB WildCat on 01/03/2011 16:59:29 Alright Im going to write some points out I think will help my ideas... In no way am I saying im right and you are wrong, I think they are relevent is all.
1) Back in the first nano age we didnt have all the gun boosts we do now. The nano ships would still need to be around 24km to point someone. Now, Minmatar and Amarr ships have short range guns, and ammo that can hit that range and track an MWD cruiser and above. No it cannot hit a frig, but it isnt supposed to, and with a frig you tank it as you go back to a gate or station.
2) Nano ships offer diversity, however if you catch them, they insta pop. No tank and since we have ships that tackle them..... Rapier, Huginn, Arazu, Hyena, any ship with command bonus.... in point range, they offer little threat.
3) I really like the idea someone posted about how a ship lighting a cyno will lose its lock, and a warm up period for the cyno itself. This would give people a chance to escape from capital hotdrops and even black op hot drops.
4) Caldari missiles cannot hit targets now as they are. Also to fix this problem I would implement a feature of how a missile continues to gain speed as it is fired. For example a cruise missile would start out at 5km/sec. then at 20km its doing 30km/sec.... 100km 80km/sec.... ect. Someone would have to do the exact math on this, but the point is to make missiles hit quicker. Obviously sig radius would still be a factor, but this way the missiles would catch the fast targets, and if they had their mwds on, it would do some damage. Not to mention this would bring it in line with the instant damage of guns... may have to lose a little dps to keep them balanced. However I would take near instant damage over dps that takes 45 seconds to get there. Please do not fear, torps would still be highly based on sig, so they wont omg pwn every cruiser. And yes your orbiting crow would hit the target before the missile loses flight time.
5) With the nano change and a slight.... yes slight... agility boost to gallente, gallente would have a chance to get into range and actually be useful. Maybe even give them a slight web bonus to help hold targets.
6) With webs I agree going all the way back to 90% may be too much. However making them 75-80% wouldnt be too bad I think. Plus give gallente a small rnage bonus, not as large as a bhaalgorns per say but somewhere in between. Remember Gallente is gun boat race without gun range bonuses for most of their ships... even the rohk is better at hybrids for range than a mega.
Anyways all these points are meant to promote pilot skill. This game is far too dependant on numbers. In call of duty give me 5 guys with years of experience against 20 guys that just started the game. The 5 guys would win, however in eve the 20 would win because they simply have more. I really think we need to bring back some changes that promote pilot skill and good teamwork.
WildCat
I don't know that I'd agree to much speed increase changes again; even with those changes to missile speed you proposed, high speeds would almost totally negate the damage even if they did manage to hit the target before they ran out of flight time. And that's just missiles.
As to your last point I do agree that experienced pilots should be able to use their knowledge of mechanics to overcome a larger group of inexperienced players, and this sometimes happens to some degree. I don't know if enhancing the speed mechanic again is the answer to that, however. I'd propose moving the minumim 'warp to gangmate' distance to 200-250k. Makes the blob less effective and your speed as it is now more effective; you gain room to manuever and possibly kill the poor fools that pull away from the main group. Probably would be about as popular as your suggestion .
|
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:34:00 -
[38]
I don't think we can "re-nano". After all Minmatar ships are still OP... But i do think it's kinda boring how effectively shear numbers counter actual piloting skills in EVE...
And yes, capitals are overpowered (aka i-win button) when hot-dropped vs. smaller stuff, and no, they don't need to be tackling for themselves to do that...they can easily have a couple of recons and RR the hell out of them.
Carriers are also over-powered when doing station games, Repping pirating BSs(or smaller stuff) that then brag for their BC ranking etc.
The cyno-mule limitations for ppl using them within their Sov regions, with cyno beacons and JBs is also non-existent.
My on-the-spot thinking for it? Caps - actually carriers and super carriers, but Titans too to some extend - are to effective outside their "siege/triage" modes, and that is too much for ships being immune to ewar etc (for the supercaps), but also unrealistic for carriers which can sit out of a POS or Station and Assign fighters etc...it's to risk free for the power those field.
So what is limiting Super Caps, or even regular Carriers? Very few stuff, unlike their 1st paradigm, the Dreads, which are now underutilized because of their un-sieged performance?
Only cost, right? So who is richer, has the i-win button, as it takes either way more peeps to kill under VERY special circumstances, and/or equally rich ppl under very special circumstances, involving Lag, traitors in the enemy lines etc...
Too boring and whichever skill is involved, is too meta-oriented...
Probable Solution: I would SERIOUSLY nerf the Fighter/Fighter bomber dmg just like RR abilities of carriers/moms that are NOT in some short of siege/triage mode.
It's too powerful to have the firepower of several BSs and the RR projection (range + amount) of several Logis. You can give the pain - but not from the other end of the system "hiding", you can heal like a Demi-God etc, but not all at the same time, while also fielding a massive local tank.
You would have to choose, and "pay" if you chose wrong.
|
To mare
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 19:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Diomidis I don't think we can "re-nano". After all Minmatar ships are still OP...
actually the last nano nerf made minmatar ship shine more because back in the days alot of HACs were used to nano nano-sac nano-zealot nano-ishtar were all commonly used in nanogangs now the only viable ships are the vagabond and the cynabal
|
Holdout
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:58:00 -
[40]
Nano-god, I'm nano-sick of the nano-word nano.
Nano?
Nano.
|
|
Aenachreon
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:02:00 -
[41]
There has never been a real "iWin" button in EVE. Things have always been unbalanced one way or another, but never enough for something to be invulnerable or unbeatable.
Oh, I dunno about that...carriers right after Red Moon Rising?
|
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: To mare
Originally by: Diomidis I don't think we can "re-nano". After all Minmatar ships are still OP...
actually the last nano nerf made minmatar ship shine more because back in the days alot of HACs were used to nano nano-sac nano-zealot nano-ishtar were all commonly used in nanogangs now the only viable ships are the vagabond and the cynabal
Well, yes...but remember that all that Vaga-whines where vs. a much weaker ship, dealing less than 200dps, as only your drones could hit reliably, and you had to slow down to half your speed (like 3,500 m/s lulz) to get some hits with your D180s and barrage :P...
Surely pulsing your MWD then was too easy tho, as each cycle could give you enough momentum for you to maintain several seconds with the MWD off :P
Now with TEs and ammo boosts, a 6-7km vaga would be crazy - maybe a 2.5-3km sec Cane even worse!
Even with Web being boosted and scrams at their current state, you still would need really fast (not nano, don't go emo on me) Rapiers / Huginns and maybe an Arazu / Lache at minimum to kill it...
So again, it's a minie vs. minie thing...at least now we have Drakes too... Don't get me wrong - i like fast drakes and i fly them in PVP as mych as i fly canes - if you boost HMLs enough to reliably (read "just as hard") hit Vagas and canes doing 1.5-2 times what they do now (and frigs respectfully) i would follow.
|
fkingfurious
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:51:00 -
[43]
Edited by: fkingfurious on 01/03/2011 22:52:01 I've never understood why people seem to think that 5 should be able to engage 20 and get anything other than completely ****ed.
The assumption appears to be that because a group has 20 pilots they are immediately less skilled than the group of 5 pilots. This is clearly bull****. The old "Nano Age" was one of the worst points in Eve's chequered past. It didn't offer diversity, nano was THE ONLY way to fly. Speed was all that mattered. There was no effective counter to speed except more speed. The standard of measurement for a ships quality was how fgast it could go. If it didn't do 4km/s it was a bad ship, end of argument.
If I have 20 experiecned pilots in a well balanced fleet of 20 why should 5 experienced pilots feel they have the right to be able to engage and win? The only way the 5 man group should get anywhere is if the group of 20 are stupid.
Eve is already resplendent with ways to punish the stupid, we don't need to go back to ridiculous stone age nano ***gotry.
|
Industrialist12
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: fkingfurious Edited by: fkingfurious on 01/03/2011 22:52:01
The old "Nano Age" was one of the worst points in Eve's chequered past. It didn't offer diversity, nano was THE ONLY way to fly. Speed was all that mattered. There was no effective counter to speed except more speed.
Sounds an awful lot like eve now doesn't it? There's no diversity to eve now...Drake, Maelstrom and Scimitar is all you see. Blobbing is THE ONLY way to fly. Numbers is all that matters. There's no effective counter to a blob except a bigger blob.
I hope you see what i did there, and what i'm getting at...
|
fkingfurious
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Industrialist12
Originally by: fkingfurious Edited by: fkingfurious on 01/03/2011 22:52:01
The old "Nano Age" was one of the worst points in Eve's chequered past. It didn't offer diversity, nano was THE ONLY way to fly. Speed was all that mattered. There was no effective counter to speed except more speed.
Sounds an awful lot like eve now doesn't it? There's no diversity to eve now...Drake, Maelstrom and Scimitar is all you see. Blobbing is THE ONLY way to fly. Numbers is all that matters. There's no effective counter to a blob except a bigger blob.
I hope you see what i did there, and what i'm getting at...
What you did was avoid the point.
If you have 200 experienced pilots and I have 300 experienced pilots why on earth should you expect to win?
|
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar Heretic Army
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:58:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 01/03/2011 23:02:22
Originally by: To mare
actually the last nano nerf made minmatar ship shine more because back in the days alot of HACs were used to nano nano-sac nano-zealot nano-ishtar were all commonly used in nanogangs now the only viable ships are the vagabond and the cynabal
Nah, there are a lot of viable ships for fast skirmish gangs. It doesnt need to be insanely fast, as long as it can do around 2kms and has some ranged damage its fine.
Different people run them with different doctrines which obviously does impact ship selection, my personal preference is a solid mix of HACs and Recons. You do not necessarily need logistics but they obviously dont hurt either and enable you to fight under sentry fire better.
A combination of Lachesis', Curses, Huginns, Vagabonds or Cynabals, Ishtars or Gilas, Scimitars can be forged into a very effective group.
Range control is a big asset, good Curse/Huginn pilots will be able to shield your fleet with their ewar, Lachs keep your targets pointed from a safe distance while the damage dealers skip into range and back to safety to do their work.
Using that ewar and your fleets mobility to your advantage allows you to take on gangs with much more direct firepower than your own. Success varies depending on enemy composition though, the above example works excellent against turret based BC groups.
|
Industrialist12
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:04:00 -
[47]
Originally by: fkingfurious
Originally by: Industrialist12
Originally by: fkingfurious Edited by: fkingfurious on 01/03/2011 22:52:01
The old "Nano Age" was one of the worst points in Eve's chequered past. It didn't offer diversity, nano was THE ONLY way to fly. Speed was all that mattered. There was no effective counter to speed except more speed.
Sounds an awful lot like eve now doesn't it? There's no diversity to eve now...Drake, Maelstrom and Scimitar is all you see. Blobbing is THE ONLY way to fly. Numbers is all that matters. There's no effective counter to a blob except a bigger blob.
I hope you see what i did there, and what i'm getting at...
What you did was avoid the point.
If you have 200 experienced pilots and I have 300 experienced pilots why on earth should you expect to win?
Nobody does, however if you have 20 relative newbies vs 10 experienced players, the odds are heavily stacked. Right now, skill means almost nothing, just that you can fit full t2 to your drake, as opposed to best named, and then die a horrible death because they have more numbers. Nano allowed those with real skill to out-play others.
I'm not saying bring Nano ships back exactly as they were, but something needs to change.
BTW, when nanos were popular, i couldn't use them, and with all the recent changes, they would be a lot more vulnerable then they were then.
|
Umega
Solis Mensa
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Industrialist12
Originally by: fkingfurious Edited by: fkingfurious on 01/03/2011 22:52:01
The old "Nano Age" was one of the worst points in Eve's chequered past. It didn't offer diversity, nano was THE ONLY way to fly. Speed was all that mattered. There was no effective counter to speed except more speed.
Sounds an awful lot like eve now doesn't it? There's no diversity to eve now...Drake, Maelstrom and Scimitar is all you see. Blobbing is THE ONLY way to fly. Numbers is all that matters. There's no effective counter to a blob except a bigger blob.
I hope you see what i did there, and what i'm getting at...
There is plenty of diversity Now. You can't blame people being lemmings on the game.
Really.. how long has drakes, maels, and shield fleets been popular?
All it takes is a notable alliance raping someone with an army of brutix, used the right way with the right support in stunning winning fashion to create interest in such, and change. Its happened time and again in such manners.. having nothing to do with any huge patch/expansion dynamic.
Cause its not like there is EVER going to be some miracle Cormorant pulling off anything special.. cause it has this stigma tied to its name..
But.. **** happens because it can and people make it happen.
Nano-age is like this.. two way street. There is nothing inbetween being locked down dead.. or having everyones game mechanics broken to **** dps with higher ehp than before. It is one or the other way more often than not. Atleast now there is a chunky middle between such that creates exceptional diversity.. IF.. people imploy it properly. More fitting options and ship design choices than before.
And as far as I'm concerned.. as the Great One says, know your Role and Shut your mouth. In that being, if you're a small group/fleet/gang/corp/alliance.. no.. you are most likely not going to beat larger groups. Working as intended. Get more if you want More.
I'm sick of people trying to get CCP to penalize others for accomplishing what they have not. Bigger ships, Bigger fleets = Bigger sections of space and control. Sounds perfectly logical to me. ---------------------------------------- Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
fkingfurious
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:16:00 -
[49]
But here is the important point.
20 newbies will already get owned by 10 experienced pilots. The very nature of Eve and the way every single bonus in the game works means that higher (relevant) SP pilots have an easily quantifiable advantage over newer pilots. Quite literally they have 10% more falloff, 5% more speed etc etc. Once you factor in pilot skill as well 2:1 or 3:! odds arent that daunting.
Back in the nano age SPEED WAS ALL THAT MATTERED. SP and experience was almost irrelevant as long as you had the fastest ship with the right mods and anyone that claims otherwise is just an embittered "Elite" PvPer who wont face up to the fact that maybe, just MAYBE the reason they can no longer run riot is because the knowledge and skilbase of the players is going up.
Look at Garmon. That guy still runs ramapant.
Maybe Wildcat and all the others begging for the return to nano stupidness should just face up to the fact that the aren't as good as they think they are.
|
DHB WildCat
Flash Over.
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:17:00 -
[50]
Please remeber that there are many more ways to counter them in todays game than the game of two years ago. It will not be the same, but would still offer variety.
|
|
Industrialist12
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: fkingfurious But here is the important point.
20 newbies will already get owned by 10 experienced pilots. The very nature of Eve and the way every single bonus in the game works means that higher (relevant) SP pilots have an easily quantifiable advantage over newer pilots. Quite literally they have 10% more falloff, 5% more speed etc etc. Once you factor in pilot skill as well 2:1 or 3:! odds arent that daunting.
Back in the nano age SPEED WAS ALL THAT MATTERED. SP and experience was almost irrelevant as long as you had the fastest ship with the right mods and anyone that claims otherwise is just an embittered "Elite" PvPer who wont face up to the fact that maybe, just MAYBE the reason they can no longer run riot is because the knowledge and skilbase of the players is going up.
Look at Garmon. That guy still runs ramapant.
Maybe Wildcat and all the others begging for the return to nano stupidness should just face up to the fact that the aren't as good as they think they are.
So your saying that the 8% Damage/RoF increase you get from having XXX Spec IV is enough to offset the fact that there's 2 ships shooting you? Really? As soon as they get a point/web on you, your going to die, regardless of what your in, No amount of skill can compare to just having more numbers. In a fleet fight, does the side that has Artillery Spec V win or does the side that has 100 more members?
As for Garmon, yes he does, and if you'll notice how he does it...Overly expensive ships(in the order of multi-billions) with a max skilled gang booster in a t3. Now how many people do you know that have that kind of isk to throw around on pvp?
Nobody wants nano to return exactly as it were, but speed and distance needs to play a more important role in pvp then it does now. What we have now is just a knife fight, and whoever brought more knives wins.
|
Target Painter
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Target Painter on 01/03/2011 23:39:05 Edited by: Target Painter on 01/03/2011 23:38:41
Originally by: Industrialist12 Sounds an awful lot like eve now doesn't it? There's no diversity to eve now...Drake, Maelstrom and Scimitar is all you see. Blobbing is THE ONLY way to fly. Numbers is all that matters. There's no effective counter to a blob except a bigger blob.
You also see Abaddon fleets with Guardians, Abaddon fleets supported by carriers, Zealot gangs (both snipe and afterburner variety), Muninn gangs, etc. People actually, on occasion, roam in armor tanked ships!
Originally by: Industrialist12 In a fleet fight, does the side that has Artillery Spec V win or does the side that has 100 more members?
Well the DRF won several battles against the NC, outnumbered, using Abaddons with capital support. PL beat the NC silly for literal months, in a variety of fleet comps, never having a numerical advantage. DarkSide routinely takes on 100+ with only 20 in gang and comes out on top, most times. Black Legion regularly holds all of Geminate hostage the same time every night in Muninns.
Quote: As for Garmon, yes he does, and if you'll notice how he does it...Overly expensive ships(in the order of multi-billions) with a max skilled gang booster in a t3. Now how many people do you know that have that kind of isk to throw around on pvp?
Max skilled booster alts get sold for as low as 7 or 8 billion. The T3 itself is (at absolutely most) 800 million. Neither are that expensive.
Given your comments, I'm lead to assume you fancy yourself as one of the high-skill/high SP PvPers who should be able to beat the blob, but can't because you are actually as bad as them at the game.
|
Industrialist12
|
Posted - 2011.03.01 23:44:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Target Painter
You also see Abaddon fleets with Guardians, Abaddon fleets supported by carriers, Zealot gangs (both snipe and afterburner variety), Muninn gangs, etc. People actually, on occasion, roam in armor tanked ships!
You might see them, but then you might also see a fleet of Bellicose and scythes. Drake/scimitar/maelstrom is the mainstay of any alliance fleet for a reason.
Quote: Well the DRF won several battles against the NC, outnumbered, using Abaddons with capital support. PL beat the NC silly for literal months, in a variety of fleet comps, never having a numerical advantage.
Out-numbered, but not out-gunned. PL very well could be the exception, since i've seen them get very creative with their fleets to great effect.
But ^^^^^^^^^^^ this seems like a discussion more suited for CAOD. Back to nanos!
Quote: Max skilled booster alts get sold for as low as 7 or 8 billion. The T3 itself is (at absolutely most) 800 million. Neither are that expensive.
Going by Eve-board(i know a vast majority of players don't have accs on there...), of the thousands of characters on there, only 117 have over 8b in their wallet(i know i know). So no, that's really not a low number for the vast majority of eve players.
|
Ticarus Hellbrandt
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 00:15:00 -
[54]
game is very much cookie cutter now, bring onm the nano age 2
|
Swynet
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 01:36:00 -
[55]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Alright as much as I hate to say it.... its time to bring back the nano ships and webs.
Lets face it. This is game is ever changing and tbh its one of its best qualities. So in light of the game as it is today I really believe we need to bring about the nano age part2.
Why?
Capitals Online... Its fact folks. Everyone has a capital... the best strategy these days for a small gang is hot drop them! Im not even close to kidding about that.
So nano ships would give the pilots the ability to get away from ships they have zero hope of killing, and pls dont say just to counter hot drop, that rediculous and I know most of you are thinking that, stop for a second and think about that!
So if you bring back the nanos, then obviously you have to have a way to catch them.... thus the webs would come back....
Zomg with the webs back, gallente would then be usefull again! Well its an idea to bring back small gang warfare and the gallente race as a whole!
Wild
The entire "universe" of "EVE" conceived around 4 races, whenever one of those is overpowerd (minmatar) or one is underpowerd (gallente) there is no equilibrium.
Look at the killmails ranks, ships destroyed. Ships mostly used etc etc.
There is a huge symptom of very bad choices to keep this equilibrium and I have my own idea has any one can(and pretty sure has a fact). Shouldn't the difficulty grow whenever you progress? whenever you get stronger? whenever it gets expensive?
Search the error, search the mistakes, search for the single interests and you'l find the answer.. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
|
Target Painter
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 07:38:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Industrialist12 You might see them, but then you might also see a fleet of Bellicose and scythes. Drake/scimitar/maelstrom is the mainstay of any alliance fleet for a reason.
Half of all the 0.0 alliances run AHACs and/or armor BS. Drake is a dead/dying doctrine because BSes tear them apart.
Quote: Out-numbered, but not out-gunned.
Triage carriers are not a "gun" and they don't make up for being solidly outnumbered by 2 to 1 in battleships.
Quote: But ^^^^^^^^^^^ this seems like a discussion more suited for CAOD. Back to nanos!
I'm discussing viable, non-nano comps that are battle-tested against the blob.
Quote: Going by Eve-board(i know a vast majority of players don't have accs on there...), of the thousands of characters on there, only 117 have over 8b in their wallet(i know i know). So no, that's really not a low number for the vast majority of eve players.
I'm not sure how common a practice it is, but I have a isk-holder toon. Keeps me from getting scammed out of billions and billions from clicking the wrong contract. I've made about 6B this month from briefly milking a C5 WH, 0.0 mission running and incursions. Admittedly, I've been carebearing my ass off, but it's doable as long as you know where the isk fountains are.
Any serious corp (and by serious, I mean self-sufficient isk wise) shouldn't have a problem scraping together 10B in the same timeframe and getting the CEO or the most active director a leadership toon and T3 to go along with it. At this point, there is just no excuse for not having it.
|
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 10:59:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 02/03/2011 11:01:40
Originally by: Industrialist12
As for Garmon, yes he does, and if you'll notice how he does it...Overly expensive ships(in the order of multi-billions) with a max skilled gang booster in a t3. Now how many people do you know that have that kind of isk to throw around on pvp?
People use expensive gear just to have more fun than they could with plain tech2. At least I do it solely for this reason. It's very stupid to think they can't win otherwise or that isk alone can let you engage 1 vs 10-15. Go ahead - through in some isk and do it yourself then. Earning isk has never been that easy as it is now, there are more multibillionaires then ever (hint: check supercaps number and the amount of farmers being suicide ganked in hi-sec), yet there are very few daring to field regular expensive ships which supposedly guarantee success.
The skill always comes first in this regard, don't fool yourself. ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 11:11:00 -
[58]
In the nano era you had to use loads of ISK to be competetive in solo/small gang pvp. I started solo pvp'ing in that time without too much isk, and there was no diversity if you remove the suicide gangs, nano was the only thing happening. If you werent in a nano'd ship yourself you died. There were no counters on small gang/solo scale to nano besides more nano (rapiers/curses were also nanod, kinda like they still are but without the snake sets) and their stupidity (I killed two rapiers in dual rep myrms when they somehow decided being within 10km of their target was the place to be in a rapier). Now speed is fine, it reduces incoming damage, it gives gtfo ability, but it does not give invulnerability to everything except faster nanos/nano blobs.
And isnt the NC/DC like only entity focussing on the maelstroms? If you think they are the only ones used (with drakes) you really should check other areas. I know from several groups that use regular abaddons as their normal fleet ships, and then of course you also got artie abaddons, hacs, etc.
|
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 18:34:00 -
[59]
Well as I remember I had to read crap like this.
Originally by: CCP Nozh Close range tracking, blasters, webbies, etc.
- Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier. This of course only applies to MWD targets. Afterburner targets will be less vulnerable to close range damage dealing ships, but that's part of the change, the verity. Smaller faster moving targets will have a better chance of evading death, but I'm sure drones on blaster boats will come in handy here.
We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers, but that really comes down to testing.
We'll keep a close eye on this when it hits SISI.
The last comment is actually funny since since everything Nozh did was trolling us(nobody can be this stupid) about med gun BS and putting ECM in your mids after hundreds of pages where tons of blaster pilots told him he is ******ed and should try to play the ****ing game he was in charge to balance.
Sure, go ahead. Remove the mwd off effect from scrams to.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 18:42:00 -
[60]
Not this nonsense again. Please stop
-THC Rabidcat
? |
|
Skex Relbore
Gallente Skexcorp
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 19:27:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Industrialist12
Originally by: Target Painter
Quote: Max skilled booster alts get sold for as low as 7 or 8 billion. The T3 itself is (at absolutely most) 800 million. Neither are that expensive.
Going by Eve-board(i know a vast majority of players don't have accs on there...), of the thousands of characters on there, only 117 have over 8b in their wallet(i know i know). So no, that's really not a low number for the vast majority of eve players.
Ok this is just a silly assertion.
I suspect that most of us hide our isk to some extent. Personally I keep most my isk in a holder corp with a bit spread across my various tunes. I've got access to a bit over a billion liquid at any given time, Most my wealth however is in hard assets. Last time I checked I was looking at about 10 bil in assets and that was when I was doing the RVB thing burning through isk at a fairly high rate.
Since I've taken a break to Carebear I've made well over a billion in just over a month(though I've spent a substantial amount on logistics and skills lately) And that's just kind of piddling along an hour or two a night.
I still wouldn't show up on Eveboard as a billionaire because I don't keep most my wealth in my wallet.
And to be frank I suck at making money. A corp with a couple dozen active members should have no problem raising 8-10 bil for a leadership alt. Not to mention most probably have members with such alts for their own purpose already .
And I know lots of guys floating around with leadership alts like that. Not like you need all that much in the way of support skills after all you aren't going to actually put it into a fight it's just going to sit afk in an unscannable T3 after all.
|
Kepakh
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 21:19:00 -
[62]
Originally by: The Djego
The last comment is actually funny since since everything Nozh did was trolling us(nobody can be this stupid)
I still remember him saying in live dev blog how he is going to use Mega with an afterburner
Scary is that this person is still around and messing with the game... ( projectile buff )
|
freshspree
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 21:22:00 -
[63]
Edited by: freshspree on 02/03/2011 21:22:05 Meh... this is one hell of a debate and as someone who wasn't here during the nano age i think it's best if i grab my chair and watch how all these things unfold.
|
Stuart Price
Caldari FLA5HY RED The Defenders of Pen Island
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:01:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Stuart Price on 02/03/2011 22:04:26 1. Spool up time on cyno's and disallow the cyno ship to receive remote reps during cyno timers. Cyno's should be strategic, not tactical, for best usage.
2. Increase the agility on most Gallente blaster ships by a LOT. They should accelerate faster than Matari, at the expense of lower top speed. Get too close and POW you're caught - as it should be. You want to kite them? Better start practicing your manual piloting.
3. Increase blaster tracking by a LOT. They should have the absolute best tracking, bar none. Got caught by a blasterboat? Yeah, you're in trouble.
4. Increase the optimal hybrid bonus on Caldari gunboats. Their current niche is rubbish. Nobody should outperform them as snipers, if this means they get to sling high-damage ammo out to sniper range then so be it. Everyone else will still get to outperform them as ranges get closer (after all, Aurora -> Faction MF is a big increase in damage, but where would a Caldari sniper go from faction AM? He's already doing max damage and now you can screw with his tracking and take advantage of his lower speed).
5. Increase the optimal and falloff of sensor damps.
6. Stack penalise leaderships and gangmod bonuses based on the amount of pilots benefiting from them. You want full (or near full) bonuses for massive fleets? Bring more CS/t3's and set up your fleet structure accordingly. You already have strength in numbers, adding full gang bonuses on top just widens the gap.
7. Remove e-war drones. Yes really. Only the ECM ones get used and they're ridiculous, to the point where it's the decision to take them is a no brainer - combat drones are added AFTER you take a flight of ECM's.
8. Increase web strength to around 80% base (for t2), reduce range (to about 6km or so for t2) but then add loads of falloff (10km for t2) - with effective strength decreasing out to optimal+falloff at a rate similar to the curve for turret hit quality. Keep the overheat function on optimal. EDIT FOR BONUS THOUGHT: sig radius becomes a mitigating factor on webs - smaller targets get less speed reduction - to prevent larger ships from utterly annihilating smaller ones too easily.
9. Give the 'Warp to Gang Member' command an accuracy penalty depending on the amount of people in the gang (handwaved by 'safety regulations for mass ship warps' or 'inherent inaccuracy of warping to a relatively small, mobile target with lots of other warp activity going on nearby' or whatever) - the larger the gang the more inaccurate your warp. Warping to celestials remains 100% accurate regardless (they are known, static targets).
Presto. Big fleets stay good at what big fleets do but you no longer get to utterly steamroll solo pilots or small gangs with bait+blob or hotdrops - they probably won't get any kills on you but they'll have a decent chance of getting away. A chance you can reduce by actively thinking instead of 'align to target, get gangwarped, turn mods on' and a chance they can increase by thinking fast.
There should also be some serious incentive to get people away from gates and stations, in lowsec in particular, but that's a much bigger and harder conversation. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Stuart Price There should also be some serious incentive to get people away from gates and stations, in lowsec in particular, but that's a much bigger and harder conversation.
Supported, except web falloff. Webs should be a close range tool, but powerful. Preventing people leaving/migrating damage, not preventing people to reach this range. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
TrimethylChromiumdioxide
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 09:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Please remeber that there are many more ways to counter them in todays game than the game of two years ago. It will not be the same, but would still offer variety.
I still maintain that increasing the min warp to object range to 200-250k would accomplish the same result, that is, if you really want to use your superior skills to kill off part of a blob before they kill you. Having been in the nano age myself, I know the frustration of getting out one of the 'many counters' to high speed battleships only to see them say 'later suckers! We're outta here.' That was one of the problems of nano. The proponents would not lose. If they anticipated the slightest chance of loss, they bailed.
Speed should not be enhanced whatsoever.
|
Rortim
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 12:00:00 -
[67]
Instant cynoin for first capital to jump through. save me triage carrier. Then add 30s per capital after the first with a max 'waiting to jump through' deployment time of 2minutes or something. Would probably boost the little guy with single/dual carrier usage that dosent have 5 sc and dreads at the back to gank any single capital deployed. supercarriers should start at a 2 minute timer to avoid 'haha, you agressed on station and got kabonkersdropped! ' or 'haha, you dropped triage with your small gang taking on our already bigger gang we just drop 5 sc and gank it instantly rather then fight because we are afraid of actual fighting.' on that note, increase station docktimer ^^
|
Sandrestal
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:21:00 -
[68]
Originally by: fkingfurious
If you have 200 experienced pilots and I have 300 experienced pilots why on earth should you expect to win?
You haven't been in many large fleet battles have you. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |