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Saleen Lee
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Posted - 2011.03.06 00:36:00 -
[1]
Just looking to have some questions answered to it's best
I'm looking to put up a POS in a 0.5-0.6 system as I plan to do R&D (I have the skills already and will grind for the NPC datacores) I was thinking of putting labs and buy a BPO, make copies and sell it in contracts/market
I.E How profitable can this be? how long does it take to make the money sting go away
And does having a medium POS offer less tedious care taking of fuel? but much cost? I heard you literally have to spend 10m per week for a small POS but how about a medium POS for 50m a month
Thx I'm lost =S |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.03.06 01:11:00 -
[2]
fuel cost way more than that. go search a bit you'll easily find some pos fuel spreadsheets. from last update i had it was by month : 100m for small, 160m for med, 280m for large
and no one will tell you his secret to make money here, but what you need to be is to search. search for the good choice of blueprints to use. try to find what seems to sell well on contracts... or what you would be alone selling. it's like any market on the game, you have to search for the good opportunity. ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Bis Andreya
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Posted - 2011.03.06 01:12:00 -
[3]
Your view on the value of POS fuel is way wrong. The value of the fuel required for having a small tower online for a month is well over 50m. |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2011.03.06 01:36:00 -
[4]
A small tower used to cost about 50 million a month, but that was before planetary interaction. Since all the non-ice products required for tower fuel are no longer sold by NPC corporations, they've gone up in price quite a lot. Look at the stats on a tower; let's use a Caldari Small as an example, since the Caldari towers are pretty popular for lab setups. Each day, the tower needs:
24 enriched uranium 48 coolant 168 oxygen 24 robotics 48 mechanical parts 2712 nitrogen isotopes
plus heavy water and liquid ozone in proportion to the amount of CPU and power grid used against the total amount of the tower. So, figure out your setup, calculate the amount of heavy water and ozone you need per day, then look on the market for the items. That's what it will cost per day.
Don't put up a tower to make money. Put up a tower because you need it, and figure it as a cost of an existing business. ______________________________________________________ PVP is a question that has no one right answer but a lot of wrong ones. - Aelana Anais
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Revolution Rising
R I S E Industries Last-Light
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Posted - 2011.03.06 05:36:00 -
[5]
Wait, you can run a small pos for 10m a month ? :)
You WISH!
270m was my last pos fuel bill (delivered) in empire. 1/4th of that would be about the cost for a small pos ;)
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Guilliman R
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.03.06 06:52:00 -
[6]
My last calculations put my large pos at 400m a month in fuel + office cost.
It's possible to be profitable, but you need to be smart, have alts and have large capital to invest. ------
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Wilddragon25
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Posted - 2011.03.06 07:15:00 -
[7]
In all honesty you can run a med tower for next to nothing, I have 3 toons running PI, and I make enough fuel to run a large tower day to day. Keep your bps in the labs, train up remote science skill and mine the ice. Basicly I can sit in my mackinaw mining, remotely start and deliver jobs, remotely start and move PI stuff. It's all how your skilled and such. Pos consumes a great load of fuel but anybody who turns a pretty decent profit off copy's and such pretty much has 3-4 slave Alta doing jobs around the clock.
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Keiko Shizuka
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Posted - 2011.03.06 09:48:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Keiko Shizuka on 06/03/2011 09:48:39
Originally by: Wilddragon25 In all honesty you can run a med tower for next to nothing, I have 3 toons running PI, and I make enough fuel to run a large tower day to day. Keep your bps in the labs, train up remote science skill and mine the ice. Basicly I can sit in my mackinaw mining, remotely start and deliver jobs, remotely start and move PI stuff. It's all how your skilled and such. Pos consumes a great load of fuel but anybody who turns a pretty decent profit off copy's and such pretty much has 3-4 slave Alta doing jobs around the clock.
No, keep your BPs in your office at a station in the same system. Never have your BPs in the labs. The PoS can automagically use them given the proper skill.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.03.06 10:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Saleen Lee Just looking to have some questions answered to it's best
I'm looking to put up a POS in a 0.5-0.6 system as I plan to do R&D (I have the skills already and will grind for the NPC datacores) I was thinking of putting labs and buy a BPO, make copies and sell it in contracts/market
I.E How profitable can this be? how long does it take to make the money sting go away
In very simple general terms :
* If you don't have > 1 alt to maximize research potential, it's not really a for profit venture. * With 3 research alts, a faction medium POS will just break even and make a little profit if you go into the right market. However, ultimately, it's also not really a for profit venture - it's just there for your own personal ME/PE research. * Large POS do make profits but as your sole for profit venture, more trouble than it's worth imo. You obviously need to scale your number of alts OR rent out the slots. DG faction large will pay for itself in no time (when compared to other large towers), so it's preferable to start with it even with the higher capital cost.
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Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.03.06 10:28:00 -
[10]
I find the best moneymaker at a POS to be those tasty invention slots. Beware, you'll ned to do a lot of market research before you decide what to invent.
Renting ME slots to my alliance is just a bonus.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
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The Labdude
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Posted - 2011.03.06 11:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: The Labdude on 06/03/2011 11:15:41
Originally by: Wilddragon25 In all honesty you can run a med tower for next to nothing, I have 3 toons running PI. Basicly I can sit in my mackinaw mining, remotely start and deliver jobs, remotely start and move PI stuff.
The stuff you mine/produce is not free. You supply your POS yourself, but it still costs you the equivalent of the market price of the materials. The difference is that logistics may be easier.
Originally by: Sturmwolke
* With 3 research alts, a faction medium POS will just break even and make a little profit if you go into the right market. However, ultimately, it's also not really a for profit venture - it's just there for your own personal ME/PE research.
Huh? With a faction tower and 3 alts you should be making billions with the correct choices which are very easy to make. If you only break even then you fail horribly
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.03.06 14:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wilddragon25 In all honesty you can run a med tower for next to nothing, I have 3 toons running PI, and I make enough fuel to run a large tower day to day. Keep your bps in the labs, train up remote science skill and mine the ice. Basicly I can sit in my mackinaw mining, remotely start and deliver jobs, remotely start and move PI stuff. It's all how your skilled and such. Pos consumes a great load of fuel but anybody who turns a pretty decent profit off copy's and such pretty much has 3-4 slave Alta doing jobs around the clock.
Wow man, thanks to your helpful hints I spent 10 hours ratting and now my alliance runs all its towers for next to nothing!!! Sure I'm out about 500m, but who cares, it's free, right??
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.03.06 15:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: The Labdude
Originally by: Sturmwolke
* With 3 research alts, a faction medium POS will just break even and make a little profit if you go into the right market. However, ultimately, it's also not really a for profit venture - it's just there for your own personal ME/PE research.
Huh? With a faction tower and 3 alts you should be making billions with the correct choices which are very easy to make. If you only break even then you fail horribly
Why am I not surprised this got a response? Context. Context. Context. Context. |
Zraktoras
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Posted - 2011.03.07 13:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: The Labdude Edited by: The Labdude on 06/03/2011 11:15:41
The stuff you mine/produce is not free. You supply your POS yourself, but it still costs you the equivalent of the market price of the materials. The difference is that logistics may be easier.
My head just WTF bombed, i produce alot of t1 ships at lower than mineral cost because i mine the minerals for FREE..............................what your saying is MADNESS!
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.03.07 15:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zraktoras crazy talk
so where are you selling your ships from again?
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Edart eno
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Posted - 2011.03.07 17:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Edart eno on 07/03/2011 17:02:59
Originally by: Zraktoras
Originally by: The Labdude Edited by: The Labdude on 06/03/2011 11:15:41
The stuff you mine/produce is not free. You supply your POS yourself, but it still costs you the equivalent of the market price of the materials. The difference is that logistics may be easier.
My head just WTF bombed, i produce alot of t1 ships at lower than mineral cost because i mine the minerals for FREE..............................what your saying is MADNESS!
mmh?
From an economical view (with a perfect market, wich jita actually resembles pretty close to and not thinking about logistics) it is always a bad idea to focus on 2 different kinds of professions without using the market between them. For example it's stupid to mine and build ships with your mined minerals, just as it is stupid to build rigs with your own salvage or fuel your POS'es with your own PI. Why? Well if one of the 2 is more profitable than the other (wich always is the case) then you are wasting one of the profits on yourself.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.07 18:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Saleen Lee Just looking to have some questions answered to it's best
I have a large Caldari in hisec. It isn't always full on grid/CPU, but that depends on what I am doing, because of which assembly arrays I have online.
I do PI extraction and P1 processing in w-space on 3 accounts, and P2 processing in hisec on one account. This more than pays for the monthly fuel costs. I have about a year of fuel stockpiled. Recently I checked and fuel was about 272m/month.
A single assembly line earns me at least 100k-250k/hour. Much more is possible. That works out to 72m-180m/month per assembly line, so up to 720m-1.8b/month with a single manufacturing account. I currently use 3 accounts for industry, though 2 of them are part-time as they are usually located in w-space.
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VaMei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.07 18:05:00 -
[18]
Edited by: VaMei on 07/03/2011 18:05:51
Originally by: Gavin DeVries Don't put up a tower to make money. Put up a tower because you need it, and figure it as a cost of an existing business.
This. A POS is like a freighter; if you don't know how it's going to make you money, you don't need it.
Start small by getting your business running from one or more stations that are off the beaten path. You'll have lower start-up costs, less time and cash spent on maintaining things, and if you don't want to run the business for a few days there's no POS costing you money whether you use it or not.
Once you have a profitable business that you want to expand, but sharing the facilities of a quiet station is getting in the way of that expansion, you'll know how a POS is going to make you money. Only then should you consider investing the time & money it'll take to start-up and operate a POS.
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Charles Javeroux
Gallente INTERSTELLAR CREDIT
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Posted - 2011.03.08 09:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Charles Javeroux on 08/03/2011 09:06:24 Here's one possibility to make high-sec POS profitable: A large factional POS in high-sec, 8 advanced research labs, 2 subsystem arrays, 1 component array. Copying capital component and ship BPO's and producing T3 hulls and subs. Expansion possibility to T2 invention and T3 reverse engineering.
Investment return: 0.5-1 year
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Eastman Color
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Posted - 2011.03.08 12:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Saleen Lee pos's are cool
My guess is with maths, work out all the numbers to what you want to do, then if it doesn't make a profit, don't do it.
You want a pos to do research, on what? If it's T2 production then how much money do you make off the products you produce? Is this number more than the cost to build + the cost of the pos?
If it's just for BPO research, then why? What is it you're making? If it's just for corp use then wouldn't buying pre researched bpos be cheaper and easier? If it's for production, same applys.
basically... do the maths yourself and then find the profit.
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LT1
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Posted - 2011.03.08 23:16:00 -
[21]
I have to agree it's a bit of "if you have to ask, you're not ready" sort of thing.
I generate about 1.4B/month, net, from a medium hisec POS run by one account (3 toons). It takes about 10 hours work/week. Fuel costs are around $133M for a fully-utilized, non-faction tower. The toons do nothing other than run the pos - no mining, missioning, etc.
On the "free materials" front, I just always consider it as a trade of time for money - if you need to spend hours in a belt to make money on a sub-market sale price...IMHO, you're doing it wrong.
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Dragon's Nightmare
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Posted - 2011.03.09 00:56:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dragon''s Nightmare on 09/03/2011 00:56:04 Can any of you help me here then:
My PoS Thread
My main question is if it's possible to make more money off of anything a pos can do in a small or medium POS in .1-.7 space then the cost of fuel if your buying it all?
If yes can you list out what I could do assuming SP/isk/location was not a factor?
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