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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alotta Baggage
Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail
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Posted - 2011.03.15 22:49:00 -
[151]
Reactor has decided to kill the Japanese with fire so maybe they should leave Japan and go live on the moon
Originally by: Valkoinen Heteromies
I for one would love to be able to walk on stations and fly spaceships in the body of a little cute catgirl!
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Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:04:00 -
[152]
A karma nexus is a wild beast. What is worse it or the wrath that fuels it. Oh the manifestly false plaitudes of the parochial leaders of men. Kill it or grow up.
..................................................
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Alotta Baggage
Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail
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Posted - 2011.03.16 02:54:00 -
[153]
... and they're done
Originally by: Valkoinen Heteromies
I for one would love to be able to walk on stations and fly spaceships in the body of a little cute catgirl!
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.03.16 08:17:00 -
[154]
JAIF (Japan Atomic Industrial Forum) updates on the Daiichi/Daini Fukushima reactor. Very detailed for those who are interested.
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/ |
KNK
Mugen Industry Tricell Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.17 01:11:00 -
[155]
TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Company) announced yesterday that the neutron was found at No. 1 plant of Fukushima March 15, and that cause is unknown. This means that there is a possibility that nuclear fission happened outside a nuclear reactor or the plutonium which leaked discharged it.
On the other hand, the Ground Self-Defense Force started drainage to reactor of No.3 and No.4 by the CH-47. |
Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.03.17 04:25:00 -
[156]
Where are all the posters claiming that one of the worst nuclear disasters in history is a complete "non event"? Many countries seem to be taking it very seriously and advising both nationals and ex-pats to return home and the exclusion zone they are recommending is much larger than the one Japanese authorities recommend.
A Russian nuclear safety expert gave an interview to the BBC and he stated that the spent fuel rod pool was placed to close to the reactors and was an obvious cost cutting measure that made this incident much worse.
However this mess turns out once the immediate problem is solved and the reactors are under control there will be a lot of questions about the safety of the plants and asking if there was anything that could or should have been done that could have limited the damage or even have prevented it from happening in the first place.
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Hoya en Marland
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Posted - 2011.03.17 11:02:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Hoya en Marland on 17/03/2011 11:03:52
Originally by: Lady Skank Where are all the posters claiming that one of the worst nuclear disasters in history is a complete "non event"?
Nothing new there dude. Nay-sayers and arogant (self) proclaimed experts do that, always from the safe distance - everything is fine, under control and there's no danger until **** hits the fan. Then they talk about unprecedented series of unfortunate events which no one could foresee, blah blah.
Hell, half of Japan island could be abandoned in next few weeks because of the heavy contamination but I am sure there will be someone claiming that "impossible scenario" as well. Nothing is possible indeed... until it happens.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.03.17 13:43:00 -
[158]
from this it seems that it's serious, but I'm not seeing it reach chernobyl levels yet. ATM I would rate it somewhere at the same level (or a bit higher) than Three Mile.
SF Pools seem to be the most critical area atm tho. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Rand Derza
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Posted - 2011.03.17 14:08:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Hell, half of Japan island could be abandoned in next few weeks because of the heavy contamination but I am sure there will be someone claiming that "impossible scenario" as well. Nothing is possible indeed... until it happens.
Half of Japan abandoned? I wouldn't state such dumb things when you clearly have no clue.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.03.17 14:31:00 -
[160]
There's an interesting thread on ATP that talks about a California quake in the coming next few days. They're running some sort of an empirical experiment that tries to reports on animal behaviour.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread675320/pg1
P.S The mention of ATP will probably evoke some derision, so caveat emptor. Imo, at this point there's nothing to lose by being careful and prepared, just in case.
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Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2011.03.17 15:07:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Aldarica on 17/03/2011 15:07:56
Quote: Japan's Self-Defense Forces have sprayed water on the overheated No.3 reactor of the quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
The forces finished the 30-minute operation on Thursday evening. Five fire engines loaded with a total of 30 tons of water were used.
But the Defense Ministry says it has not confirmed whether the water reached the storage pool housing spent fuel rods, though it reached the inside of the building that houses it.
I hope, but also afraid that it won't be enough. What they need is team in the storage pool housing. Yes, it is very likely that those people would get lethal dose or radiation but someone will have to sacrifice and stop all this before it's too late. Russians did:
Quote: Twenty years after the disaster, he (Anatoli Zakharov, a fireman stationed in Chernobyl) claimed the firefighters from the Fire Station No. 2 were aware of the risks.
Of course we knew! If we'd followed regulations, we would never have gone near the reactor. But it was a moral obligationùour duty. We were like kamikaze.
Many of those men knew that they were going to almost certain death yet no one hesitated for a second. They were real heroes, and now Japan needs some too.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.17 15:53:00 -
[162]
And what are they going to do in that building besides comitting suicide? Why dont you book a flight and walk in there if you like it so much, but it is pretty sad you say from your nice and cozy home those people should commit suicide for no good reason at all. Btw i have this feeling in Chernobyl their choices were either going inside or being shot.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.18 01:47:00 -
[163]
The possibilities of a meltdown are looking more likely, they can't get near the place as much as they would like to and it seems the containment ponds aren't getting maintained either...they're air dropping water and trying to run power lines to the equipment providing water, but radiation levels have spiked in the last day forcing them to evacuate the workers. I guess the spent fuel is in danger of melting too at the moment. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.18 04:30:00 -
[164]
And I was called a tin-foil hat militia survivalist paranoid nutbar for having a geiger counter.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.18 05:04:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer And I was called a tin-foil hat militia survivalist paranoid nutbar for having a geiger counter.
It's ok. My friends think I'm a bit weird for having a bug out bag along with a .45 acp and an atac mini-14. All I know is that if worst comes to worse whatever the cause I'm ready and they are not.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Hoya en Marland
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Posted - 2011.03.18 08:36:00 -
[166]
They are considering an option to burry the reactors under the sand and concrete as a last resort to prevent catastrophic radiation leak. Also company said that they cannot rule out a possibility of the self-ignited fision to occur outside the containment vessels.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.19 12:11:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 19/03/2011 12:11:55 A partial meltdown has probably already happened. The fuel rods are also slowly cooling down with every hour because the chain reaction comes to a halt, so it will probably not become another chernobyl.
The danger is still very high with chances of further hydrogen explosions and holes in the reactors containment that might release additional radioactive material. So far I would say that Japan is safe.
About the US reactors. Some of them are dangerously close to the zone were a big earthquake is expected to happen. Building the reactors in such a zone strikes me as terminal stupidity. The only reasonable option would be shut down each plant in, or very close to such a natural disaster zone immediatly.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.03.19 14:40:00 -
[168]
The food supply is irradiated so dairy and agricultural farmers in the reactors area have been banned from selling produce, that area is probably polluted from decades at minimum if not millennia so those farmers livelihood is ruined forever.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2011.03.20 02:48:00 -
[169]
Edited by: digitalwanderer on 20/03/2011 02:50:57
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 19/03/2011 12:11:55 A partial meltdown has probably already happened. The fuel rods are also slowly cooling down with every hour because the chain reaction comes to a halt, so it will probably not become another chernobyl.
The danger is still very high with chances of further hydrogen explosions and holes in the reactors containment that might release additional radioactive material. So far I would say that Japan is safe.
The main problems are that those fuel rods need to be cooled for months....They don't cool down in a matter of days,and that applies to the spent fuel rods in the pools and the ones still in the reactors themselves.
It also remains to be seen if the water pumps within the power station, as well as all the pipes and all control systems are still in working order after having gone thru that massive earthquake and tsunami and several hydrogen explosions, so it's good that they've managed to get an emergency power line, but it's by no means a given that the equipement will work and the flyovers with helicopters are a hail mary pass that's only partially effective...Same for the water cannons from the fire trucks.
Even if the water pumps at the station itself do work and fill up the water pools and reactor cores, there's still going to be hydrogen build up as the rods are cooled down, and that hydrogen is radioactively charged, and the same goes for the reactor containment vessel if it's damaged and no longer insulates the reactor.....It'll basically still keep leaking radioactive particles even if the fuel rods are kept cool and avoid a complete meltdown, so a method has to be devised to re-seal it and that means people getting really close to it and suffering massive radiation exposure in the process.
This incident might not be a full blown meltdown like Chernobyl, but it'll still keep leaking radiation for weeks and maybe even months until the problem is fully solved, so what we're seeing right now is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.03.20 03:25:00 -
[170]
Originally by: digitalwanderer Edited by: digitalwanderer on 20/03/2011 02:50:57
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 19/03/2011 12:11:55 A partial meltdown has probably already happened. The fuel rods are also slowly cooling down with every hour because the chain reaction comes to a halt, so it will probably not become another chernobyl.
The danger is still very high with chances of further hydrogen explosions and holes in the reactors containment that might release additional radioactive material. So far I would say that Japan is safe.
The main problems are that those fuel rods need to be cooled for months....They don't cool down in a matter of days,and that applies to the spent fuel rods in the pools and the ones still in the reactors themselves.
It also remains to be seen if the water pumps within the power station, as well as all the pipes and all control systems are still in working order after having gone thru that massive earthquake and tsunami and several hydrogen explosions, so it's good that they've managed to get an emergency power line, but it's by no means a given that the equipement will work and the flyovers with helicopters are a hail mary pass that's only partially effective...Same for the water cannons from the fire trucks.
Even if the water pumps at the station itself do work and fill up the water pools and reactor cores, there's still going to be hydrogen build up as the rods are cooled down, and that hydrogen is radioactively charged, and the same goes for the reactor containment vessel if it's damaged and no longer insulates the reactor.....It'll basically still keep leaking radioactive particles even if the fuel rods are kept cool and avoid a complete meltdown, so a method has to be devised to re-seal it and that means people getting really close to it and suffering massive radiation exposure in the process.
This incident might not be a full blown meltdown like Chernobyl, but it'll still keep leaking radiation for weeks and maybe even months until the problem is fully solved, so what we're seeing right now is just the tip of the iceberg.
One of the reactors must be breached, the admitted one core may be exposed and the news footage showed them firing a water cannons into a damaged outer containment building.
They where not firing water at the cooling pond so it seems they are trying to cool exposed rods, it was the same reactor they tried water bombing from the air, that image was very reminiscent of Chernobyl and the radiation was so bad they had to abort the bombing because the helicopters where being exposed to dangerous levels of radiation.
It is very obvious the Japanese authorities are down playing the situation to avoid panic, it remains to be seen just how bad this really is but at the very least the area for several square miles around Fukushima will be heavily contaminated.
Here is an interesting report about how the workers being firmly asked (coerced maybe?) into keeping quiet about how bad it really is and how the power company attempting to discourage reporters from intervening the workers and their families at the main evacuation center.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 03:50:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Selinate
Let me make one thing clear. THERE NEVER WAS ANY CHANCE OF A RUNAWAY REACTOR. Never. Not at any point in time.
Oh I see. I am sure they are pouring seawater directly into the reactors, literally destroying them, just for the lulz.
Originally by: Selinate In addition to this, there never was a "meltdown". Not in any of the reactors.
Partial melting of the exposed fuel rods was officially confirmed for at least two reactors.
You're an idiot. They're dumping sea water on the reactors in order to cool the reactors from decay heat, not from fission reactions. They're putting boric acid into the water just for the sake of safety, not because there's some chance of a runaway reactor (which there isn't).
Also, there never was a full meltdown. Partial meltdown? please. None of this nuclear incident is even worth mentioning next to this monumental disaster that the Japanese people are experiencing, and yet people focus on the reactor because they don't understand the first thing about nuclear reactors and how they work.
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digitalwanderer
Gallente DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2011.03.20 04:05:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Lady Skank
One of the reactors must be breached, the admitted one core may be exposed and the news footage showed them firing a water cannons into a damaged outer containment building.
They where not firing water at the cooling pond so it seems they are trying to cool exposed rods, it was the same reactor they tried water bombing from the air, that image was very reminiscent of Chernobyl and the radiation was so bad they had to abort the bombing because the helicopters where being exposed to dangerous levels of radiation.
It is very obvious the Japanese authorities are down playing the situation to avoid panic, it remains to be seen just how bad this really is but at the very least the area for several square miles around Fukushima will be heavily contaminated.
Here is an interesting report about how the workers being firmly asked (coerced maybe?) into keeping quiet about how bad it really is and how the power company attempting to discourage reporters from intervening the workers and their families at the main evacuation center.
It's obvious they want to avoid a panic and try to reassure people, but the situation will stretch out for a long time until the situation is completely under control with the fuel rods completely cooled down and there's no more radioactive steam being released, and then sealing off the containment vessel around the reactor...Until that point,more radioactive particles will get released with the main variable being just how much will get released.
One thing is for sure,anything within a 50 mile area of that is off limits permanently even after the reactors are completely sealed off...Nobody in their right mind would want to live near that thing.
Besides,those reactors are scrapped for good since they used sea water at one point to cool them down, wich is extremely corrosive to the containment vessel,even though it's made of 6 inch thick stainless steel,so the plant will never be rebuilt...
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 04:23:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Selinate on 20/03/2011 04:24:08 Edited by: Selinate on 20/03/2011 04:23:34
Originally by: Grimpak
Chernobyl reactors used graphite rods to stop fission yes. That and a badly trained personnel and a multitude of human errors, bad maintenance and obsolete equipment (graphite rods were considered very obsolete even for the date of the Chernobyl accident), made the issue escalate into what it's known today, afaik. Atm if I'm not mistaken, the damaged reactor is still on fire inside the concrete sarcophagus that was built at the cost of the life of pretty much all the ones that went there to cover it up.
Also, there are reports that the concrete sarcophagus is starting to display some cracks.
This is false. The chernobyl reactors did not use graphite rods to "stop fission". Graphite is used as a moderator and reflector, not a control material (and yes, it is still used today in reactors).
The easy part to explain what happened with Chernobyl is the fact that no senior engineering staff were there at the time of the test that needed to take place, and the fact that they essentially shut down all safety systems. The hard part is explaining how poorly the reactor was designed, and really contributed to it more than those running the reactor.
The reason that there isn't a chance of a runaway reactor, or any disaster like Chernobyl happening in this reactor, is because the reactor in Japan lacks positive feedback coefficients that the Chernobyl reactor had. Hot tip of the day: the reactor at Chernobyl were actually going down in power before the power shot up. What happened had to do with the fact that when they cut off cooling, which was what the test required them to do, boiling happened. Reactor has positive void coefficient. Reactor go boom. Guess what the BWR in Japan doesn't have? A positive void coefficient. All reactors designed today are designed SPECIFICALLY so that they do not have these kinds of positive feedback coefficients. If the reactor goes up in temperature, guess what happens? That's right, the fission rate decreases. What happens if boiling occurs? Again, the fission rate decreases. Better yet, what happens when the control rods are pulled out to allow for a higher power level? Power increases, but the negative power coefficient balances out the applied reactivity. Of course, the fission rate doesn't decrease, but the reactor doesn't get out of control because it literally balances itself out without any outside help.
So please, if anything, compare this incident to 3 mile island if any of you want to. Just don't compare it to Chernobyl, as it's completely asinine, and just spreads pointless fear about these reactors. There are plenty of ways to receive a higher dose of ionizing radiation right now than being near the reactors that seem far too common to most of you.
But still, what you should be really worried about is the real devastation the local people are facing, i.e. the fact that their homes are gone, thousands are dead, and their infrastructure is pretty much all but gone. The nuclear reactor problems should just be a side-note and nothing to get overwhelmed about.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 04:34:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Selinate on 20/03/2011 04:34:30
Originally by: Lady Skank
However this mess turns out once the immediate problem is solved and the reactors are under control there will be a lot of questions about the safety of the plants and asking if there was anything that could or should have been done that could have limited the damage or even have prevented it from happening in the first place.
The answer to this is: They should have built a wall that was 3 feet higher so that it could have blocked a tsunami that was 3 feet too high. (so the diesel generators wouldn't have been mucked up).
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.20 11:14:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Grimpak on 20/03/2011 11:14:47
Originally by: Selinate stuff
my mistake then.
I do agree with you on people crying end of the world about this tho. Radiation was released yes, but this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below the levels of chernobyl. Maybe a bit higher than Three Mile, but not much of a difference.
also no deaths reported till now, and cases of human radiation poisoning are mild afaik? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 12:13:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Selinate on 20/03/2011 12:14:52
Originally by: Grimpak
my mistake then.
I do agree with you on people crying end of the world about this tho. Radiation was released yes, but this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below the levels of chernobyl. Maybe a bit higher than Three Mile, but not much of a difference.
also no deaths reported till now, and cases of human radiation poisoning are mild afaik?
radiation poisoning? I haven't even heard of any radiation levels high enough to produce radiation poisoning. The biggest problem with radiation so far is the contaminated food, even though it wasn't that high and the Japanese government was considering stopping shipments from the contaminated farmland.
The reason why this is by far the biggest problem (even though it's not that big of a problem at all, really, since the radiation level is so low and would only take a few days to break down to unnoticeable levels) is that your GI tract is generally much more susceptible to radiation damage. But they're acting like a responsible government, and how the nuclear industry always reacts to any level of contamination (no matter how minuscule), and taking every step possible to prevent any problems due to radiation from happening.
As far as radiation outside of the GI tract? Hi, I've held a small ball of cesium-137 in my hand before. Cancer free for 2 years now.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:20:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Lady Skank on 20/03/2011 13:20:07
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 20/03/2011 12:14:52
Originally by: Grimpak
my mistake then.
I do agree with you on people crying end of the world about this tho. Radiation was released yes, but this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below the levels of chernobyl. Maybe a bit higher than Three Mile, but not much of a difference.
also no deaths reported till now, and cases of human radiation poisoning are mild afaik?
radiation poisoning? I haven't even heard of any radiation levels high enough to produce radiation poisoning. The biggest problem with radiation so far is the contaminated food, even though it wasn't that high and the Japanese government was considering stopping shipments from the contaminated farmland.
The reason why this is by far the biggest problem (even though it's not that big of a problem at all, really, since the radiation level is so low and would only take a few days to break down to unnoticeable levels) is that your GI tract is generally much more susceptible to radiation damage. But they're acting like a responsible government, and how the nuclear industry always reacts to any level of contamination (no matter how minuscule), and taking every step possible to prevent any problems due to radiation from happening.
As far as radiation outside of the GI tract? Hi, I've held a small ball of cesium-137 in my hand before. Cancer free for 2 years now.
Have you actually been to Japan and measured the amount of radiation yourself? please post the results and make some vids and take some pics because I'm sure many here would like to see them.
The British embassy has begun giving anti radiating meds to nationals and expats that live in Tokyo so radiation there must be higher than the official "barely above background levels" the Japanese authorities claim.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:26:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Lady Skank
Have you actually been to Japan and measured the amount of radiation yourself? please post the results and make some vids and take some pics because I'm sure many here would like to see them.
The British embassy has begun giving anti radiating meds to nationals and expats that live in Tokyo so radiation there must be higher than the official "barely above background levels" the Japanese authorities claim.
Hi, would you like your tinfoil hat now or later?
Also, inferring what radiation levels are from what folks are doing as preventative measures isn't that intelligent. There are morons in California stocking up on Iodine right now, does that mean that the radiation levels in California are enough to be worried about?
not even ****ing close
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Hoya en Marland
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:26:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Selinate You're an idiot. They're dumping sea water on the reactors in order to cool the reactors from decay heat, not from fission reactions.
No apparently you are, and your pitiful agenda is easily recognizable. You know very well what I've meant, yet you are taking my words out of the context. Pathetic. Anyway, why don't you step down from your high horse for a moment and tell us why this decay heat is dangerous in this situation? Company already said that the melted fuel leaked out of the damaged containers could become critical and start spontaneous fision *outside* of the reactors housing. Even if this doesn't happen (which won't, hopefully) no one knows for sure, especially not you, how badly those structures are damaged and for how long would they leak radiation into the atmosphere. And in what scale. But knowing that they are seriously considering complete demolishing of the powerplant, and/or burying it under the thick layers of sand and concrete might tell you something about the grave danger it poses to whole Japan - not only right now but in years to come as well.
I said it before and I'll repeat it once again - I don't care about the causes and the event mechanics, all I care is final impact on environment and health of the people. Chernobyl explosion released vast ammount of radiation that spread all over the Europe in very short time. Fukushima on the other hand might be slowly leaking radiation for months and that would lead to same -if not much worse- results.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.20 13:31:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Selinate on 20/03/2011 13:35:32
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Selinate You're an idiot. They're dumping sea water on the reactors in order to cool the reactors from decay heat, not from fission reactions.
No apparently you are, and your pitiful agenda is easily recognizable. You know very well what I've meant, yet you are taking my words out of the context. Pathetic. Anyway, why don't you step down from your high horse for a moment and tell us why this decay heat is dangerous in this situation?
No, I didn't take it out of context, I answered to what you said correctly. The fact that you don't realize this shows your overwhelming ignorance to the situation and nuclear reactors in general.
Look up decay heat for yourself for once and figure it out.
ALSO, EDIT: Uranium spontaneously fissions on it's own all the time, you moron. It's natural. So do other elements aside from Uranium. So please, stop pretending like you actually have any idea of what you're talking about, and try actually doing some in-depth research for yourself. Nuclear reactor physics isn't something you can learn from a news report.
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