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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
363
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Posted - 2012.08.30 05:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Well here are some more peanut gallery comments, from some real peanuts. Quote:CCP Soundwave showed some statistics about mining since the drone regions changed and Hulkageddon. Mining in high sec is slightly up, low sec is way up and null sec is way, way up based on volume of ore. That was all before mining buff as well. So probably factor in less hulks being used, but more macks to make up for that. I just think your gonna have to start thinking of spodumain like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scrfb7ec3qY
And all of this is being done by large corps in 0.0 as part of alliances.
Seriously, dude im gonna stop even replying to your drivel, you just don't have the experience to understand the complexity of what you're talking about.
Your comments are from an unrelated context.
Just because mining is up, doesn't mean problems are fixed.
If you think you have something reasonable to say, I'm all ears, but you are just copy-pasting a bunch of stuff that's unrelated.
You have no experience of what I'm talking about so why are you still posting here in a semi-serious thread about the issue ?
You are the dude in politics who stands up telling people that to fix the economy they will print more money.
I go back to my earlier utube - you have no idea what you're talking about, your answers have nothing to do with the question, may god have mercy on your soul. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
610
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Posted - 2012.08.30 07:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:rodyas wrote:Well here are some more peanut gallery comments, from some real peanuts. Quote:CCP Soundwave showed some statistics about mining since the drone regions changed and Hulkageddon. Mining in high sec is slightly up, low sec is way up and null sec is way, way up based on volume of ore. That was all before mining buff as well. So probably factor in less hulks being used, but more macks to make up for that. I just think your gonna have to start thinking of spodumain like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scrfb7ec3qY And all of this is being done by large corps in 0.0 as part of alliances. Seriously, dude im gonna stop even replying to your drivel, you just don't have the experience to understand the complexity of what you're talking about. Your comments are from an unrelated context. Just because mining is up, doesn't mean problems are fixed. If you think you have something reasonable to say, I'm all ears, but you are just copy-pasting a bunch of stuff that's unrelated. You have no experience of what I'm talking about so why are you still posting here in a semi-serious thread about the issue ? You are the dude in politics who stands up telling people that to fix the economy they will print more money. I go back to my earlier utube - you have no idea what you're talking about, your answers have nothing to do with the question, may god have mercy on your soul. Im sorry Rev you got it completely wrong
The correct phrase is "May BoB have mercy on your soul."
All praise BoB. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
364
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Posted - 2012.08.30 08:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Im sorry Rev you got it completely wrong
The correct phrase is "May BoB have mercy on your soul."
All praise BoB.
Never let it be said that I cannot admit when I'm wrong. CSM7 Skype Leak
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
685
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 09:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Already said it in another thread, but thought it fit here as well.
People have been on summer vacations and we've been looking at the ideas we have for the coming months and prioritizing the ones we like best and think we can complete in time. So news of upcoming features will start to emerge as soon as the devs have had time to arrange more of the details. And we'll bring you In Development videos with more info about the future real soon too ;). Ttue there's been little news, but that will change.
Hurry Rev, now is the time to strike, go convince the CCP to support your spodumain change. You have trained on spodumain and waited all your life for this moment. Don't let it pass by.
I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
madpsychc0killer
Air The Unthinkables
8
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Posted - 2012.08.30 15:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I always love how the PvP crowd claim that PvP is the driving force behind this game.
But if they ever got there way and the carebears went over to PvP, suddenly PvP would cost so much that most people couldn't afford a frigate, especially not the current PvP crowd as most of them are so poor.
.
You do realise that if there was no pvp, no one would need to replace ships and therefore no need to buy any from the industry crowd, it's a cycle, we need each others hi-sec alts as much as they need us. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2162
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Posted - 2012.08.30 18:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:rodyas wrote:Well wondering about a few things after reading that.
By pvp you mean small gang pvp, or conflict driver pvp?
Also wonder if you want low and null to be more industrial driven.
Also wondering if you ran ISK numbers yet, and seeing how much ISK you would be making in low/null industrial paradise. Especially with all the paperwork taken care of. It would be fun though them setting those up, but would free up alot more time for ISK.
You also quoted Seleene in an early post, about the three things he wanted to do with #3 being industry revamp. I always took it as the third thing following the other revamps then the industry one would happen. (As in after low and null revamps) You sound tired of waiting for an industry revamp or so, but what are your thoughts on that ranking? tbh, I think we've seen 9 years of sov/0.0/pvp revamps. Not that that's a bad thing. PVP is the main driver of the game, absolutely. However, it's definitely time for an actual industry release I would've thought. Upon saying that, the amount of work to "redo industry" could be devastating ;) They are fixing industry queues up - for t2 production etc, this winter I believe. Also redoing corporate page, with security etc. Also redoing the contract system into the new treaty system. This is all related to what I'm talking about, awesome stuff all of it. However, things seem to fall between the cracks because they are "small changes" which could have huge impact. Like the spodumain thing. You consider it. A small corp decides to rent space from a larger entity somewhere in say, Kalevala expanse. They rent space, put up pos, then they have to install and upgrade an IHUB. Overall the payments for all this are in the billions per month, easily. The amount of isk to put the POS and IHUB up are also harsh even though they aren't ongoing. Not to mention the amount of work in logistics. But in order to upgrade the ihub they have to mine, and mine and mine. Every Day. However, what they get to mine is predominately spodumain - the worst ore in the game. WTF do people expect a mining corp to pay this seriously? to mine spodumain ? This **** is supposed to be fun. And lets say they don't actually own a rorqual just yet.... 75% refining - even at max skills. These guys need to fix some of this stuff... It's not even in the same realm as a PVP corp. I don't see how they can possibly justify any of this - and it has been this way for YEARS. When they had some perceived problem with the titan blob, mittani had it hotfixed within a month because of the qqing. So now we vote in this CSM and a few of us put a fair bit of energy into doing that... and still waiting for some of these "text modifications" to go through which would change peoples' gameplay significantly. This stuff isn't "reworking POS" or some tremendous amount of work for CCP, it's a few text mods, maybe some small graphical changes in the size of the rocks in the belt or some such. To answer your question - I think industry should constantly be looked at, but if we had an industry expansion once per 10 years, that's ok. PVP is the main driver and always will be, but I think we're overdue to check out some of these small problems and get rid of them.
So since I ran pretty much on seeing that mining and industry get some love I'll share my perspective. The miners and industrialists can expect some long overdue attention in the next 24 months (which I know seems like a long time and also provides CCP with enough runway to totally change their minds so consider this with an adult sized portion of skepticism.)
The good for mining in plan at this moment: 1. We got the barge buff and a new mining barge is in queue. Nice start. 2. Ring mining is coming in a year or so (crossing my fingers on that). When that gets here a lot will change. 3. We have new asteroids bring developed that will contain multiple "ores". No ETA but interesting development. 4. Moon minerals will be available to be mined in some form (as part of ring mining?) 5. Crime Watch has the potential to improve the safety of high sec miners. 6. I'm going to also add the new POS plans because since they will be anchorable anyplace they could make supporting low sec or small null operations more practical.
OK, so all good, but since this in plan all the CSM can do is watch to see how it ends up being implemented and make sure these plans stay in place. Getting any of that sooner seems unlikely. And honestly this could drag out for years.
For industry the big change is the very very cool automated build machine being planned. This will be huge! Again the only frustration is it isn't a near term thing.
Overall, the current CSM seems to have a few folks that want the mining and industry changes and we saw that a lot of cool stuff is in plan. Short term however, our barges and the upcoming new frigate is all we can expect for a while.
I'd like to see Technetium addressed sooner, either by changes in its use or introduction of alternatives. For example make more ways to build nano transistors using other moon materials or even high end normal minerals. (my dad designed materials for transistors for Motorola for most of his life and had something like 200+ patents on the process so I can tell you in the RL world there are many many different ways to make semiconductors.)
I'd also like to see the ore on low sec SERIOUSLY improved to the point that we see miners trying out their new skiffs in less safe areas to make some better rewards for taking those higher risks.
So as a CSM that ran on making mining better I can't say my work is done but I see a lot of what I hoped for already inplan, so now I think its all about making sure CCP delivers.
Issler |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
364
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 23:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
So your comment on the specifics I pointed out is "No comment" followed by a quick rehash of the CSM minutes??
Thanks for that. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
625
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Posted - 2012.08.31 00:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
madpsychc0killer wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I always love how the PvP crowd claim that PvP is the driving force behind this game.
But if they ever got there way and the carebears went over to PvP, suddenly PvP would cost so much that most people couldn't afford a frigate, especially not the current PvP crowd as most of them are so poor.
. You do realise that if there was no pvp, no one would need to replace ships and therefore no need to buy any from the industry crowd, it's a cycle, we need each others hi-sec alts as much as they need us. I have never said PvP should be removed, only that it is just one part of this game and not the be all and end all of it. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
625
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Posted - 2012.08.31 00:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:So your comment on the specifics I pointed out is "No comment" followed by a quick rehash of the CSM minutes??
Thanks for that. TBH I am happy with that at least we got a response, better than we have gotten so far in on these forums. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Actually, the spod problem is quite significant, as well as representing an opportunity to solve the low end minerals supply problem in low/0.0
Yes a huge issue.... Old posts on it:
Quote:Quote:Veldspar is rare in nullsec? Last time I checked, I see multiple gigantic 100K units + Velspar roids. What are you smoking? Yet you have the option to mine veldspar and make some money or mine the nullsec roids and make way more. Guess what miners do.
So... The lower end roids are there - in mass but the miners don't want to "waste the time" mining that stuff vs getting the high-value ores. So... They not only want the high value ores but also even more of the lower end ores for doing nothing extra.
Greed is good! -- the ores are there in the appropriate types of roids and those roids are available in low and nullsec. If you don't get off your lazy ass and mine the stuff that holds what you are after, don't whine about how others are getting value from it.
Messing the ore market up to make life easier on null types is not something most players are all that interested in anymore - not after the moon goo stunts and stagnant world it shows. There is little tolerance by both PvE and PvP types for "nullbears" wanting to bloat their wallets with even LESS effort.
As for tools that can help an industrial firm cut costs and manage better - no problems. Just not this "gimmie more wealth with no trade-offs" bunk that many null type miners spew. That's bunk. |
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
695
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 06:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:So your comment on the specifics I pointed out is "No comment" followed by a quick rehash of the CSM minutes??
Thanks for that.
She is not gonna take you seriously rev, because you didn't use any youtube links in your reply post. She is gonna sit there confused until you link some more billy madison or punch drunk love youtube clips, to help her to understand better.
But she did say this though: "I'd also like to see the ore on low sec SERIOUSLY improved to the point that we see miners trying out their new skiffs in less safe areas to make some better rewards for taking those higher risks (except for spodumain)"
Which is what ya wanted. But she is just saying this with no back up or serious promise ability I suppose, so its hard to accept her statement. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
638
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 06:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:So your comment on the specifics I pointed out is "No comment" followed by a quick rehash of the CSM minutes??
Thanks for that. She is not gonna take you seriously rev, because you didn't use any youtube links in your reply post. She is gonna sit there confused until you link some more billy madison or punch drunk love youtube clips, to help her to understand better. But she did say this though: "I'd also like to see the ore on low sec SERIOUSLY improved to the point that we see miners trying out their new skiffs in less safe areas to make some better rewards for taking those higher risks (except for spodumain)" Which is what ya wanted. But she is just saying this with no back up or serious promise ability I suppose, so its hard to accept her statement. Well as the statement was a 'I'd also like to see" so it was more a personal comment than a statement of fact. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
695
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 07:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
^ Yeah better way of putting it.
In a personal way she supported you rev, but not in a factual way. That is mostly me as well. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
madpsychc0killer
Air The Unthinkables
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 08:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:madpsychc0killer wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I always love how the PvP crowd claim that PvP is the driving force behind this game.
But if they ever got there way and the carebears went over to PvP, suddenly PvP would cost so much that most people couldn't afford a frigate, especially not the current PvP crowd as most of them are so poor.
. You do realise that if there was no pvp, no one would need to replace ships and therefore no need to buy any from the industry crowd, it's a cycle, we need each others hi-sec alts as much as they need us. I have never said PvP should be removed, only that it is just one part of this game and not the be all and end all of it.
But it is the driving force fella, it's not a claim, a believe or a theory, it's a fact. EVE is a pvp driven game (ask a dev if you don't believe me), there are other aspects of course (that I myself also take part in) but without pvp none of the other parts would be on the scale they are, not even close. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
642
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 09:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
madpsychc0killer wrote:Frying Doom wrote:madpsychc0killer wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I always love how the PvP crowd claim that PvP is the driving force behind this game.
But if they ever got there way and the carebears went over to PvP, suddenly PvP would cost so much that most people couldn't afford a frigate, especially not the current PvP crowd as most of them are so poor.
. You do realise that if there was no pvp, no one would need to replace ships and therefore no need to buy any from the industry crowd, it's a cycle, we need each others hi-sec alts as much as they need us. I have never said PvP should be removed, only that it is just one part of this game and not the be all and end all of it. But it is the driving force fella, it's not a claim, a believe or a theory, it's a fact. EVE is a pvp driven game (ask a dev if you don't believe me), there are other aspects of course (that I myself also take part in) but without pvp none of the other parts would be on the scale they are, not even close. As I have said before in other posts if you remove PvP completely from eve, Industry and trade would slow down to a crawl. But if you remove industry or trade for the game there can be no PvP.
All elements of this game drive the others with no exceptions. If less people PvP then demand for ships and modules shrinks so it impacts whether the profits of mining and industry to the point of slave labour rates. If not enough people mine the prices of ships rise to high to be used in PvP and in the middle of this is the traders trying to make profits, but profits are made through volume, so no volume no need to trade. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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madpsychc0killer
Air The Unthinkables
9
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Posted - 2012.08.31 11:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
You seem to be making the statement about the "pvp crowd" in your original post.
I'm guessing most of the pvp crowd have the ability to build every ship/purchase every ship/mine the mins for everyship in game either on an alt / a corpies alt / an alliance members alt. I know I do, we would be ok, and we still get to explode stuff aswell.
PVP is still the driving force, whether you except it or not. We are not something to be sneered at.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
644
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Posted - 2012.08.31 11:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
madpsychc0killer wrote:You seem to be making the statement about the "pvp crowd" in your original post.
I'm guessing most of the pvp crowd have the ability to build every ship/purchase every ship/mine the mins for everyship in game either on an alt / a corpies alt / an alliance members alt. I know I do, we would be ok, and we still get to explode stuff aswell.
PVP is still the driving force, whether you except it or not. We are not something to be sneered at.
You are aware you just said that PvPers build ships, mine ect.. arnt you?
You do realize that was not the type of person I was talking about right?
I was talking about the PvPers who seem to believe industry is beneath them, you know like some people believe water comes out of a tap.
Anyway I am perfectly comfortable in sneering at the PvP crowd who give the carebears a hard time. The ones who sneer at carebears are not likely to go carebearing themselves and if they do and someone brings it up I would be happy to ridicule that person for a month of Sundays.
It requires all types of players to make EvE what it is, not just the PvPers who are mostly in the instant gratification crowd.
As to being the driving force again it requires all the types of players not just pvpers, you would not get much pvp done if there were no ships around to pvp in. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2162
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Posted - 2012.08.31 18:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:So your comment on the specifics I pointed out is "No comment" followed by a quick rehash of the CSM minutes??
Thanks for that.
So I looking at my corp miners I don't see the issues related to the scanned sites as serious as you make it out. I'm not aware that all activities in Eve are supposed to net the same isk per hour/effort. If you think you make more scanning down stuff to mine instead of stuff to shoot will make more isk then if isk is all the matters "mine away!".
As for my reply I'm basically saying there is a lot of mining/industry content already in plan. I don't think pushing CCP for a bunch more is going to succeed. I think we need to focus on the implementation of the stuff in plan and make sure CCP delivers the promise when they have promised it.
Issler |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
366
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 07:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
It's not about what you think or your miners think right now.
This is more to do with what people said would be changed during and even before voting week... I can understand there are mining changes underway. I can even understand that it might be difficult to get CCP to look at this stuff now.
However, I will point out that I was contacting present CSM's (at least 4 I can think of) and had agreement that these things needed fixing, and had assurances that they'd be looked at - before they were voted in.
And now... nothing but rhetoric and circular logic.
While the good relationship with CCP is important for the CSM to function, it is not the main goal (no matter how advantageous or nice it is) of the CSM.
I really disliked Mittani and he didn't even perceive the mining industry needed any changes at all, but at least he knew how to get stuff done.
BTW Seleene is in the chairman sticky above agreeing in theory that these things along with many others are "no brainers" and that's making u look silly Issler. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
656
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 08:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think the biggest problem is that mining and industry has suffered so long under the oppressive reign of Null sec CSMs that now we have people saying "These need some love", CCP has looked at the backlog of things it should have done in the last 9 years and let out a collective "Oh Crap"
There is just too much work for them to do and on the other side of the coin is the fact that if they do too much work on industry the PvP crowd will start screaming like its Incarna again.
But the biggest problem on the horizon is very simply the fact that with the CSM Elections due to start cranking up in 5-6 months from now, we will probably only get one shot at the entire backlog of Industry for the next 9 years.
So effectively it is now or never, the null sec blocks will again be back to trying to removing tech. This mostly as the big alliances have already made a fortune from this and it would allow them more flexibility not to be tied to moons. Personally I would like to see income removed from corps completely and placed into players hands, so a corp or alliance lives or dies by its members, rather that as it is at the moment corps making so much isk they can literally buy members.
So I will take what ever we can get and If Issler would be so kind as to push CCP as much as she is able, that would be great because after this we will be back to more WAR orientated expansions again *sigh*.
The meta gaming for CSM 8 has already started with attacks on CSM7 and the how they could do it better. This is going to be a bloody campaign. Hopefully next year we will get a Japanese candidate or 2 but I doubt it they do not seem organized enough yet. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
699
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Posted - 2012.09.01 08:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Do you speak japanese by chance?
Also they are pretty new to the game as well. Be hard to make it to CSM.
I am a bit older then the japanese, and look at how Rev was like when he learned how new I was. I doubt they would stand much chance at all. But then again, that was from Rev, so maybe they do stand a good chance. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
656
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 09:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Do you speak japanese by chance?
Also they are pretty new to the game as well. Be hard to make it to CSM.
I am a bit older then the japanese, and look at how Rev was like when he learned how new I was. I doubt they would stand much chance at all. But then again, that was from Rev, so maybe they do stand a good chance. It more comes into whether or not they form their own power block.
The current old and outdated voting system for the CSM makes it relatively easy for a small number of people to get someone on to the CSM so it is not out of the question we will have a japanese candidate or 2 next year.
Hell with the old system 1 guy and 32,000 USD buys a seat on the CSM or for that matter an alliance with 765,000,000,000 isk and 1 member. And if you were an alliance with some tech moons before the semi-nerf and 600+ members you could easily afford to rig the election so your candidate makes it into next years CSM. Excluding TEST as they are apparently broke.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
700
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 10:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Yeah well no goons are on CSM though.
Also the russians on the CSM, I heard helped to translate the minutes into russian. I imagine the japanese CSM would do the same. If you don't speak japanese, could be a bit boring.
Forgot about the blocks as well. Suppose they could get a person on ,who knows. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
667
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Yeah well no goons are on CSM though.
Also the russians on the CSM, I heard helped to translate the minutes into russian. I imagine the japanese CSM would do the same. If you don't speak japanese, could be a bit boring.
Forgot about the blocks as well. Suppose they could get a person on ,who knows. Would be nice especially given the complaints about the company handling the Japanese subscribers. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
366
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 12:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I think the biggest problem is that mining and industry has suffered so long under the oppressive reign of Null sec CSMs that now we have people saying "These need some love", CCP has looked at the backlog of things it should have done in the last 9 years and let out a collective "Oh Crap"
There is just too much work for them to do and on the other side of the coin is the fact that if they do too much work on industry the PvP crowd will start screaming like its Incarna again.
But the biggest problem on the horizon is very simply the fact that with the CSM Elections due to start cranking up in 5-6 months from now, we will probably only get one shot at the entire backlog of Industry for the next 9 years.
So effectively it is now or never, the null sec blocks will again be back to trying to removing tech. This mostly as the big alliances have already made a fortune from this and it would allow them more flexibility not to be tied to moons. Personally I would like to see income removed from corps completely and placed into players hands, so a corp or alliance lives or dies by its members, rather that as it is at the moment corps making so much isk they can literally buy members.
So I will take what ever we can get and If Issler would be so kind as to push CCP as much as she is able, that would be great because after this we will be back to more WAR orientated expansions again *sigh*.
The meta gaming for CSM 8 has already started with attacks on CSM7 and the how they could do it better. This is going to be a bloody campaign. Hopefully next year we will get a Japanese candidate or 2 but I doubt it they do not seem organized enough yet.
To be honest had Seleene said that instead of you, I would've been totally answered as far as my questions.
This makes more sense to me, rather than their poor attempts at politicking the situation.
Just for the sake of full disclosure, I will never be running for CSM as I don't feel it necessary.
However, I do think this is a bit of a debacle from my perspective. I guess we'll see what happens for CSM 8. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
672
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:
To be honest had Seleene said that instead of you, I would've been totally answered as far as my questions.
This makes more sense to me rather than their poor attempts at politicking the situation.
Just for the sake of full disclosure, I will never be running for CSM as I don't feel it necessary.
However, I do think this is a bit of a debacle from my perspective. I guess we'll see what happens for CSM 8.
This is stated with all due respect to current and former CSM members...
To answer you statement "Just for the sake of full disclosure, I will never be running for CSM as I don't feel it necessary."
Would anyone not better off in a mental institution actually run for the CSM, yeah sure give your name and where you live to a bunch of whack job, eve players. I would rather see if it is possible to fall out of a plane without a parachute at above 33,330 ft. At least that would have the possibility of a happy ending, not much but still better than giving out your details to a bunch of people with guaranteed nuts in it. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
366
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
Oh I don't know, I think people CAN get good things happening by being voted into the CSM. However, I also think that CCP is still leading them around by the nose.
I like most of the work CCP does, but I also understand that without people pointing out the "little inconsistencies" those inconsistencies will continue indefinitely.
This is what I count on the CSM to do. Noone on CSM should need to tell CCP that the POS need to be reworked or that barges needed some help. However, they should be looking for and offering ideas on the small details to ACTUALLY help the people that follow particular types of gameplay - whether it be t2 manufacturing, mining, bounty hunting or whatever.
Installing a system based solely on theoretical ideas of what those people are ACTUALLY doing in the game day to day, is only going to create MORE inconsistencies.
The Unified Inventory should've shown this with flying colours. The system was installed, but people couldn't work it the way they wanted because theory and practice didn't match up.
Similar problems exist in systems that perhaps have less users using them - but I would put to people that less people are using them because they are unworkable, not because people don't want to do those things.
Unlike the inventory, those systems haven't been seen to in a long long time. They have remained unworkable to many - but not everyone. So there are inconsistencies in peoples' perspectives. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
673
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Posted - 2012.09.01 13:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
The biggest hurdle CCP will face is not so much that the alterations that they do to the system to make it better but that because people have been doing things the old way for so long that they will perceive the new method to be worse.
As to the CSMs role, I think they are heading in the right direction as they become more integrated into the development process, this is both good and very scary.
The current CSM seems to know what will happen if they drop the ball on this but what about the next CSM, if we get more performance artists the CSM will once again become only a PR tool for CCP and we the players will be back to only being heard when we are unsubbing. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
367
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Posted - 2012.09.01 13:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The biggest hurdle CCP will face is not so much that the alterations that they do to the system to make it better but that because people have been doing things the old way for so long that they will perceive the new method to be worse.
As to the CSMs role, I think they are heading in the right direction as they become more integrated into the development process, this is both good and very scary.
The current CSM seems to know what will happen if they drop the ball on this but what about the next CSM, if we get more performance artists the CSM will once again become only a PR tool for CCP and we the players will be back to only being heard when we are unsubbing.
Totally agree, I mean just LOOK at Issler's comments above.
No mention is made of whether it's a large or small mining corp. No mention is made of whether it's an empire, wormhole, 0.0 or lowsec corp. No mention is made about the skillpoints of those miners or if they actually DO scan sites down or use a POS refinery.
Instead a stupidass comment is made "my miners say there is no such problem" therefore there must be no such problem.
This is the kind of dumb politicking and linear thinking I'm talking about.
Now take into account that if I run a corp only a couple of jumps into lowsec that allows miners with low SP to join. How do I pay them and still do logistics and perhaps even make a buck on the side?
-25% refinery and a 5% tax means -30% to the newb pilots that might join - not exactly a great start to the profession.
And keep in mind that 5% isn't worth 1) the logistics/risk of moving several peoples ore in lowsec or 2) POS fuel.
Also that if in 0.0 in a rented system your only advantage is that you have high end ores in grav sites - however something like 75% (by m3) of the total ore in the grav site is spodumain. Which you're wonderfully paying the rent/Pos Fuel and risk to mine.
Increasing the number of miners of course (which might be one way of increasing the profit to pay for that POS fuel) increases things like contracts by miners to the corp each day, which then goes into the management of those contract - hopefully fixed in the new "treaty system" but I notice this isn't specified in the minutes. Managing 50 contracts a day and having to manually do the arithmetic takes HOURS.
It might be great sitting in empire running such a corp, because u don't need ALL of these systems functioning at the same time together to be working.
However, I do put to Issler that this is what makes lowsec so empty these days. One of the platforms many people in the current CSM got voted in on.
Not to mention just "mining in general" that she herself got voted in on.
This whole thing enters into all kinds of subjects from running a corp to new player experience, but now after they have been voted in - it cannot find a champion to fix it despite the many champions that said they WOULD before and during voting week last time.
All in all a pretty sad state of affairs. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
674
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Posted - 2012.09.01 13:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
As to Issler hers is a Large Hi-sec mining corp that used to live on a high sec island surrounded by lo-sec, I am not sure if this is still the case.
As to the refining thing that is being proposed to lower the income of Hi-sec miners and make more people go to lo-sec, personally I think that will just back fire into a lot of rage and unsubs as the hi-sec miners mostly just want to be left alone.
I myself years ago worked 6 days a week, 12 days a week with a 2 hour round trip commute time, so on my day off I liked to sit there and read a book or whatch a movie while I made isk mining. I did not want to be ganked or lose loads of it in the refineries that is why the first thing I did when I started was get my refining skills and standings up. Now if there had been a huge loss on what I was doing, I probably would have left and found another relaxing game where I could feel I had achieved something without having much time.
That was what drew me to this game I could work all the time and still get some where, I used to call it "the workers game". Now it is becoming the lazy, need to sit at home all the time game. Rather a downer.
On the spodumain personally I do Gravs in a WH so we just mine what we want and it buggers off in a couple of days anyway, so i can't really comment on that one or the long term effects of causing them to disappear faster in lo-sec. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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