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Cyaron wars
Gallente Fallen Angel's RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.24 11:25:00 -
[31]
Ace Frehley it's great that twinkey is not in NCDOT any more. He would've kicked u from alliance just coz of whining about blobs. As I remember that guy had perfect aproach for blob warfare. He thought that only way to fight blob is stay in system and reduce hostile numbers to 0, that's what he actually said once when we were in fleet. :D
every single poster here said removing JBs is stupid, but somehow you are the only one who thinks it's right idea. Perhaps you wanna have dedicated server just for you?
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.24 11:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: EOH Minigin
if you are waiting for ccp to fix lag, so that you can bring even more people on grid...
firstly you are literally pants on head stupid, secondly this problem will never be solved.
The single most important point has been made, everything else is just window dressing, sov mechanics can change, super caps may be dumped, and high end moons may migrate, none of which are for the moment likely but we can dream, but in the end you will never fix lag, systems can support more people, then the blobs bring more until it does lag, as for blobs I've been on both sides of that joy and it's fun when you do ok and a ***** when you're on the wrong end, suck it up and deal with it, nothing will change.
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lisa herrick
Minmatar 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.03.24 11:50:00 -
[33]
ffs people, sorry, but this has really grabbed my goat !
i will be fined for poasting here but f*** it !
read MY poast here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1478589
mechanics are not broken, game is not broken, lag will not fix this. it goes deeper, deep into our desire as humans and people to win.
read the damn poast ! people stopped poasting after i said it - it makes sense and if each of you reaches deep inside, you know it to be true.
i am so sick of listening to stories of lag this, lag that, ccp broke my game, blah blah.
as we say here in AUS....."GROW A SET !". ITS A FRICKIN SANDBOX, MAKE IT WHAT YOU WANT, IF YOU MAKE IT LAG, THEN PUT UP OR SHUT UP !
i am so gonna run for CSM next year !
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Psilocin
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.24 11:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cyaron wars Ace Frehley it's great that twinkey is not in NCDOT any more. He would've kicked u from alliance just coz of whining about blobs. As I remember that guy had perfect aproach for blob warfare. He thought that only way to fight blob is stay in system and reduce hostile numbers to 0, that's what he actually said once when we were in fleet. :D
every single poster here said removing JBs is stupid, but somehow you are the only one who thinks it's right idea. Perhaps you wanna have dedicated server just for you?
Ladies and pubbies, I give you the new EVE Region: Trammel
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Blackberry Bold
Caldari Pegasis Internecine Acquisition Of Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.24 15:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ace Frehley I will give you the simplest solution to fix the blob that has been mentioned 100 times
Remove JB, nerf titan bridge, reduce the jumprange on supercaps.
Wiola, see how fun people think it is to go 40-50 jumps from PB to Geminate for a fight. That alone will give you a hell of lot more smaller fights cuz this massive blobs cant move.
Make it happen CCP, get eve in to hardmode. I remember flying from empire down to Period Basis using instas that some poor bastad fixed... Now this warp to 0 ruins lowsec aswell...
GJ ccp
I tend to agree with some variation of this solution. Having the jump bridges is fine but but there should be distance restrictions (based on builders skill training), Construction time lag's (start with say a week then increase construction time based on distance potential and reduced based on skill training), and they should be a fixed structure like any other form of soveirn infrastructure. Jumping large forces long distance behind enemy lines is fine (ala paratroopers) but those should have limits based on reason. I mean if you were able, your not going to parachute an aircraft carrier the same easy that you would an Army Ranger! Javascript:insertsmilie('','WebPost','text'); Those who have stepped into the arena shall forever cherish a feeling the protected will never know. |
Heptameron
Gallente Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.24 17:22:00 -
[36]
Removing JB's won't solve s**t and in fact will take the deeper parts of 0.0 back to the almost uninhabitable days of years past.
Someone has already touched on the real reason for the blobfest we see in game at the moment... pure and simple human nature. You bring 5 to a fight and i'll take 6, then you come with 7 and I call in 8... this has been going on since waaaaay back in syndicate when the JQA were trampled by the first real alliance/coalition that became .5.
Everyone points at the NC... well yea, theres a lot of us but it's something that has been forced on us not by a need to care bear, or isk farm. But because over time bigger blobs than us have come to take us out so we had to grow to counter them. Unfortunately most of those superblobs failed and have disappeared leaving us as the single largest coalition. I don't think theres any doubt that will change in time, and all of the whiners will circle jerk over the corpse of a once great coalition :)
But back to the point... removing JB's won't do jack sh**, shortening jump drive distance for caps won't change sh** except pump up the price of fuel. This game will always be about territorial gain and either of those factors will just make it easier to hold space than take it.
As for the lag, I think what irks most people is the fact that having a 1200 pilot fight was possible with 'some' lag not so long ago. The tribute fights against Bobbits when the pink furry hat wearer lost 2 titans was a case in point. But the latest updates have made it worse, THATS the main issue imho.
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Marconus Orion
Amarr S.E.G.W.A.Y.
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Posted - 2011.03.24 17:32:00 -
[37]
There are dozens upon dozens of things in this game that contribute to The Issue. I call it The Issue because some view it as a problem and others don't. So it would be unfair to label it as such in consideration of everyone that is involved.
Unless you address all of these at the same time with real thought you will never find a solution that really works and everyone is happy with. It is simply too easy to just change one thing and walk away, but now you solved one problem and created another. Bottom line is every aspect needs to be looked at. We need a total and complete overhaul how null sec works.
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Heptameron
Gallente Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.24 17:48:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Heptameron on 24/03/2011 17:48:29
Originally by: Marconus Orion We need a total and complete overhaul how null sec works.
This tbqfh....
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Blackberry Bold
Caldari Pegasis Internecine Acquisition Of Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.24 17:58:00 -
[39]
Heptameron you miss read my post. I am not asking that jump bridges be removed. Simply nurfed. To think that reducing, not eliminating, an item will completely destroy null sec is without any EVE historical verisimilitude. Those who have stepped into the arena shall forever cherish a feeling the protected will never know. |
stranac
Amarr 3OO
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:07:00 -
[40]
Edited by: stranac on 24/03/2011 19:07:35 unnerf nano and some of us old player might came back to game for some 4-7man roaming gang fun like before:P
edit: and put only constalation local :P instead local local:)
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Heptameron
Gallente Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Blackberry Bold verisimilitude.
You know with that one word you have confused 98% of the eve population right? (nice word but you spoiled your level of erudition by misspelling nerfed :p)
There are a few pilots who advocate the removal of JB's though, and my reply was pointed at those rather than yourself :)
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Heptameron Removing JB's won't solve s**t and in fact will take the deeper parts of 0.0 back to the almost uninhabitable days of years past.
The truth tbfh, I've been playing long enough to know how bad the ass end of space was before caps and jump bridges.
Way back when I spent a small amount of time in Omist and I couldn't wait to get out of there simply because it was a major exercise to do any sort of logistics, logistics now that are common place because of JB's and capitals.
Tbh I don't know why people are flogging this dead horse, JB's are not the problem people are just convinced they are part of it, which they aren't, of course I'm bias, I like camping them but I digress, mob mentality is the problem if you want to call it that and people will always take whatever help they can get, as much as I hate being blobbed I can't complain, the last time I was in a fair fight I wanted to know who had ****ed up to get us there in the first place.
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EOH Minigin
Caldari Eve Online Hold'Em ISK Six
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:47:00 -
[43]
jump bridges do need to be removed, not because they actually form coalitions but because removing them is one more way to encourage players not to be in giant coalitions.
whatever you say about it not mattering and deep 0.0 being inaccesable, these factors DO influence gameplay and make it easier for more people to choose to be in these super coalitions rather than forging their own path.
so you need to put aside your own agendas whether you like camping bridges or using them, and think "what are good insentives for people to return to a more reasonable and managable scale of pvp"
if the cost is fewer people make it out to deep 0.0, then so be it. more conflict over the desirable regions is better for player driven content.
WANNA PLAY POKER IN EVE FOR ISK????
www.eohpoker.com |
CaptainCanuck
Caldari Edge Of Infinity True Reign
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Posted - 2011.03.24 19:52:00 -
[44]
Just thinking out loud here.... What about doing something similar to SISI. Create some (new) areas of space that limit size of ships and/or types of ships and/or total amount of ships that can enter the system. These new systems woudl be for those of us that want to do pvp on a scale that is not blob warfare. Create some kind of rewards, be that rights to a moon for some period of time, some nice officer drops, whatever. Point being when a gang of 20 or so goes for a roam the chances of a "good fight" are slim as smaller groups run, larger groups blob, and gate camping is just damn boring! Flame on!
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: EOH Minigin jump bridges do need to be removed, not because they actually form coalitions but because removing them is one more way to encourage players not to be in giant coalitions.
whatever you say about it not mattering and deep 0.0 being inaccesable, these factors DO influence gameplay and make it easier for more people to choose to be in these super coalitions rather than forging their own path.
so you need to put aside your own agendas whether you like camping bridges or using them, and think "what are good insentives for people to return to a more reasonable and managable scale of pvp"
if the cost is fewer people make it out to deep 0.0, then so be it. more conflict over the desirable regions is better for player driven content.
I hear what you say but ultimately what will happen is ppl will blob the more desirable space more and the distant regions will become the realm of chancer's, what you're saying makes sense in general terms but blobbing/lag will still be an issue, just closer to empire.
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.24 20:10:00 -
[46]
Just as an aside to the general flow of argument here, anyone remember the downtime rush in the null sec/empire pipes, logistics back then were fun......
Add your own sarcasm...
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Dynast
Gallente Osirians Of Eve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:23:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Dynast on 24/03/2011 21:25:20
Originally by: Heptameron Removing JB's won't solve s**t and in fact will take the deeper parts of 0.0 back to the almost uninhabitable days of years past.
Someone has already touched on the real reason for the blobfest we see in game at the moment... pure and simple human nature. You bring 5 to a fight and i'll take 6, then you come with 7 and I call in 8... this has been going on since waaaaay back in syndicate when the JQA were trampled by the first real alliance/coalition that became .5.
...
But back to the point... removing JB's won't do jack sh**, shortening jump drive distance for caps won't change sh** except pump up the price of fuel. This game will always be about territorial gain and either of those factors will just make it easier to hold space than take it.
Spoken like an inveterate blobber.. "it's always been this way, it's the only way, nothing can change it."
Lying about how impossible it was to live in deep 0.0 before jumpbridges and jumpfreighters and the like is so sad. I made my first bil moving mods and ammo to YZ-LQL something like five years ago, and they didn't sell because nobody was living there. A couple regions over, ASCN had pretty much everything they needed available locally, something like 40 jumps from Empire. Of course, they weren't 3l33t pvperz and actually had some industry rather than buying everything in Jita.
Jump-everything encourages and empowers the blob.. makes it easier to blob anywhere at any time, and removes the tax on players of having to move their ships conventionally. Removing jump bridges and drives wouldn't make it go away, but it'd make it much harder to employ over multiple regions.. and it'd make the players who **** up the game with their blobbing have to pay a tax in time and effort to do so, rather than hopping from cyno to cyno moving faster than a pimp-fit dramiel.
It'd all encourage people to risk engagements more. Right now, one of the biggest dis-incentives to fight is the hotdrop.. the very real risk that despite having pretty good intel on the region you're in, you'll get blindsided by cap ships from who knows where. The only defense against which is metagaming.. and the end result is fewer fights.
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JerseyBOI 2
Gallente Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:30:00 -
[48]
Stop trying to involve the whole EVE community in your perceived "problem" with lag. Lag don't bother me and allot of other people, ergo for us, there is no lag. And they should remove jump bridges. If you won't fly for combat in numbers that invite anyone to participate in combat against you, then killing you while you struggle with logistics will do. [url=http://huzzahfed.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=22939] [/url] |
EOH Minigin
Caldari Eve Online Hold'Em ISK Six
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:32:00 -
[49]
im not saying remove jbs = remove blobs though.
i think its a lot more complicated than that and there is literally no way to remove blobs in eve (without ruining the game)
but i definatly think that it is a step in the right direction. the fewer insentives to blob and supporting mechanics the fewer blobs and super coalitions.
and i mean, personally i love the engagements caused by old style camps on gates - even though ccp said should they change things up they would include more backdoor entrys to 0.0 so this is a smaller problem if you view it as such.
really i just think its worth it, to say "ok you can still form these super coalitions if you want... but you wont find any pvp within reasonable distance and you wont all be able to live in good space"
these i feel are fair drawbacks to such a decision as to nap 28 different alliances and not too big a nerf to smaller entities making their way in 0.0.
WANNA PLAY POKER IN EVE FOR ISK????
www.eohpoker.com |
JerseyBOI 2
Gallente Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:41:00 -
[50]
I don't have a problem with blobs. I have have a problem with people who blob and then turn around and cry when they have reached the limits of what the game can support. What number would you be happy with 25k vs 25k? where does it stop? meanwhile people who don't play this game for that have to suffer though CCP devoting resources and planning to alleviate this no win situation style of play instead of concentrating on other content. [url=http://huzzahfed.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=22939] [/url] |
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JerseyBOI 2
Gallente Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.03.24 21:51:00 -
[51]
This thread might have seemed like a good idea at the time. EVE-O forums aren't the playpen confines of your alliance or coalition forum, where I'm sure this "problem" is clucked about endlessly giving you the false impression that the whole game community felt the same way, or cared. [url=http://huzzahfed.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=22939] [/url] |
Katcaeks
Caldari SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:34:00 -
[52]
Changing JB's in anyway, shape or form will not reduce blobbing. JB's or cap jump range has nothing to do with blobbing in the slightest. Blobbing is simply a side effect of having X people in nullsec on each side, it's purely down to numbers and is a tactic based on numbers. It's a legit RL war tactic too, gather your navy into one large force that your enemy cannot defeat with his numbers and pummel his forces as you encounter. While jump bridges assist in force projection somewhat, removing those only ensures the same number of people focus into a smaller, more valuable area. The effect of this is that to take such an area, you have only one real option and that is to bring in enough numbers to ensure you have a chance of winning encounters with your opponent.
An enemy with the same number of forces and a smaller area to defend is a lot more difficult to engage than an enemy with a much larger area to hold and cover. Removing JB's just makes these coalitions hold a smaller area and harder to engage in a theatre of combat. Why anyone would think changing jump bridges would help the situation is beyond me.
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Dynast
Gallente Osirians Of Eve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Katcaeks Changing JB's in anyway, shape or form will not reduce blobbing. JB's or cap jump range has nothing to do with blobbing in the slightest. Blobbing is simply a side effect of having X people in nullsec on each side, it's purely down to numbers and is a tactic based on numbers.
Blobber: No, no, that won't do anything, JBs are not the droids you're looking for! Blobber takes jumpbridges to blobfight, gets podded, reships, takes jump bridges back to blobfight.
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Katcaeks
Caldari SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:50:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dynast
Blobber: No, no, that won't do anything, JBs are not the droids you're looking for! Blobber takes jumpbridges to blobfight, gets podded, reships, takes jump bridges back to blobfight.
Did you actually read what I said? Or are you just some bitter CVA guy who wants to blame something, ANYTHING for the "issues" in nullsec war?
Blobbing will happen, regardless if JB's are nerfed, improved, removed or totally changed to make them super radical or useless. The fact that you don't see that suggests your concept of strategy and warfare are rather limited. The only result you'll have of this is to further focus the "blobbing" forces, allowing them to hold valuable systems and easily fend off any "offense" by "honourable space ship pilots".
Seriously, if I see my enemy is bringing a force of 300 strong to a battle, I'm not going to think "Oh hum, I should be honourable and only take 300 as well so that I gain the respect of my e-spaceship pilot fellows.". Screw that, I'd be thinking "300? I'll bring a few hundred more just to be safe, keep some more in reserve and totally kick this guy's teeth in.". People do not play games to be honourable and lose, people play games to have fun and win. If you're not "winning" (Charlie Sheen, bless you) then you're "losing". No one wants to lose.
Changing JB's just changes the range the blob can strike, it does not remove the blob itself as a viable tactic. Perhaps it's not as fun as other tactics, but it gets results. And results are really what matters in the end, not some imaginary sense of "e-honour". I'll take victory over chivalry anyday.
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boliano
Caldari Forced aggressions Lawful Insanity
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Posted - 2011.03.24 22:51:00 -
[55]
Edited by: boliano on 24/03/2011 22:55:23 Bottom line ccp has done extremely well with boosting performance in the last few years...And the sad truth that will never change is no matter how far they boost the amount of players they can handle in a single fight,The two sides will just keep bringing more.That will never change..
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Captain Thunk
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.24 23:25:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Katcaeks Blobbing will happen, regardless if JB's are nerfed, improved, removed or totally changed to make them super radical or useless. The fact that you don't see that suggests your concept of strategy and warfare are rather limited. The only result you'll have of this is to further focus the "blobbing" forces, allowing them to hold valuable systems and easily fend off any "offense" by "honourable space ship pilots".
Seriously, if I see my enemy is bringing a force of 300 strong to a battle, I'm not going to think "Oh hum, I should be honourable and only take 300 as well so that I gain the respect of my e-spaceship pilot fellows.". Screw that, I'd be thinking "300? I'll bring a few hundred more just to be safe, keep some more in reserve and totally kick this guy's teeth in.". People do not play games to be honourable and lose, people play games to have fun and win. If you're not "winning" (Charlie Sheen, bless you) then you're "losing". No one wants to lose.
Changing JB's just changes the range the blob can strike, it does not remove the blob itself as a viable tactic. Perhaps it's not as fun as other tactics, but it gets results. And results are really what matters in the end, not some imaginary sense of "e-honour". I'll take victory over chivalry anyday.
Exactly.
Nerfing JBs limits the range of the blob, which is key. No-one is pretending blobs will ever go away, but having a system in place that allows them to move large distances rapidly, easily and efficiently is a serious problem. As you've said, there are many entities that are so laughably bad that the blob is their only option available to them. So it makes sense to accept that they will blob where they can, theres no reason to stop them even if it were possible (its not btw) but removing their ability to travel so rapidly via a static network makes a lot of sense - even with the hidden cost of losing a number of motherships and titans in the name of having the highway available to all doesn't justify why such things should exist. Limiting to alliance owners only would be a sufficient nerf and wouldn't interfere with those living in the boondocks and needing logistics.
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0ca
Gallente ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:40:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Razzor Death Reading the amazing level of pubbie in this thread it really is truly remarkable half of you made it past the tutorial
don't sign your posts.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.03.25 01:52:00 -
[58]
except getting rid of JB's wouldnt do that
'Omg guys our buddies getting hit 20 jumps away' 'Well sh*t we arent going cause its to far....' *Would never happen* More like 'Alright we will form up 30 minutes before they start forming up to meet at their staging point'
Removing JBs would only stop the re shipping, and returning quickly.
But if i bring 200 to your 50 its not gonna matter.
Also you assume Coalitions help their allies cause its easy or cause its close. When we would fly as far as needed to help an ally jb's or not. Its naive to say that removing Jbs or titan bridges would mean people didnt wanna help their friends.
Also its Naive to think that just cause you bring 100, your opponent will only bring 100 cause its the 'nice' or 'honorable' thing to do.
Wanna reduce the blob? Increase space twice its size so that player base is diluted in 0.0 so that there is no way to hold all of it with the current number of pilots in 0.0 . Add 3 or 4 regions and 2 or 3 NPC regions. How will this fix the blob? it might or it might not but it would mean that the 0.0 entitys would spread out more and that would mean less concentrated coalitions.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Bobbeh except getting rid of JB's wouldnt do that
'Omg guys our buddies getting hit 20 jumps away' 'Well sh*t we arent going cause its to far....' *Would never happen* More like 'Alright we will form up 30 minutes before they start forming up to meet at their staging point'
Removing JBs would only stop the re shipping, and returning quickly.
But if i bring 200 to your 50 its not gonna matter.
Also you assume Coalitions help their allies cause its easy or cause its close. When we would fly as far as needed to help an ally jb's or not. Its naive to say that removing Jbs or titan bridges would mean people didnt wanna help their friends.
Also its Naive to think that just cause you bring 100, your opponent will only bring 100 cause its the 'nice' or 'honorable' thing to do.
Wanna reduce the blob? Increase space twice its size so that player base is diluted in 0.0 so that there is no way to hold all of it with the current number of pilots in 0.0 . Add 3 or 4 regions and 2 or 3 NPC regions. How will this fix the blob? it might or it might not but it would mean that the 0.0 entitys would spread out more and that would mean less concentrated coalitions.
Man, this post is a steaming pile of **** if I've ever seen one.
Newsflash:
Humans are lazy. That is a factual statement. All humans, everywhere, are lazy. If you make a task tedious, they will either not do it, or try to find a shortcut around it, and if they can't find a shortcut, they revert to not doing it or procrastinating.
Your post is full of speculation about "expanding space". If you expand space, and still keep jump bridges in it, the same coalitions that are around and in control now will simply expand and consume that space, linking it with a jump bridge network that allows them to enforce their will from 4 regions away.
If you tell people in these massive coalitions that they have to go help somebody in fountain, and they live in Geminate, they'll form early, but the truth is that the lazy ones will just stay in Geminate and run sanctums instead of making the hour long trip down there with a huge fleet that lags on every gate.
I'm not sure what land you live in, but when we watch the NC have participation problems from low morale, thinking those same guys will go an hour ride in a huge fleet every day is laughable in the extreme.
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Kayl Breinhar
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.25 02:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Bobbeh Wanna reduce the blob? Increase space twice its size
So fix PvP by making it too annoying to go anywhere. Gotcha.
Space doesn't need to be bigger. If anything, since they're running into problems with resources, it needs to be smaller.
- Eliminate completely unused systems. - Add more gates - everywhere. The goal would be to make it so it's a rarity to ever have to go more than 20 jumps to get from A to B. - Make jump bridges tied to outposts and conquerable stations. Conqs should have longer range than outposts. Outposts aren't the super-expensive items they once were, and should be accessible to any *sane* group of new players wanting to start out in 0.0.
Traveling 50 jumps one way to a fight is not made more fun by making it 75-100.
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