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Alesiana Valtarro Delsearro
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Posted - 2011.03.27 16:24:00 -
[1]
So I wasn't able to watch the fanfest feeds, but all I see is massive rage against CCP. So I am out of the loop and have no clue whats going on. What did they do now?
And why is everyone hating on Greyscale?
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Ivor Reganold Biggen
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.27 16:24:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ivor Reganold Biggen on 27/03/2011 16:25:32
Originally by: Alesiana Valtarro Delsearro So I wasn't able to watch the fanfest feeds, but all I see is massive rage against CCP. So I am out of the loop and have no clue whats going on. What did they do now?
And why is everyone hating on Greyscale?
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=883
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.03.27 16:36:00 -
[3]
Excluding the trolls and the normal nitpicking that goes around people seem to be actually very excited about what we saw in the fanfest feed. Interesting things are coming to EVE, assuming we get half of what we saw.
The Greyscale hate is because his name is in the devblog, that nerfs significant parts of 0.0 areas as far as anomalies gained through infrastructure upgrade are conserned and compnsates that by boosting areas that are already controlled by the big alliances. All in the name of helping the new guys to get a foothold in 0.0 and creating differences between areas based on system truesec level. Let's just say people aren't very impressed with his method of trying to achieve some of those goals.
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Mors Magne
Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.27 17:34:00 -
[4]
My 'hate' is because the biggest improvement gains are to be had with Incarna (a 'new frontier'). Greyscale is spending too much time on areas subject to the law of diminishing returns.
In other words, more time should be spend on 'game-changers' rather than under-the-bonnet' details.
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Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:11:00 -
[5]
The "hate" comes from the vocal minority of cry babies who can't live with the fact they're playing an MMO where someone else than them are making the rules and is controlling the course of certain events.
-)Peace through supreme firepower(- |
Internetz Spaceship
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:48:00 -
[6]
Every tiny change they make is followed by a massive rage from one tiny minority of scared drama queens. Say new forum, say new UI, say new portrait, say fixed broken old mechanics or even a video on youtube may let flow their rage. True story.
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Dulcia Anduin
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mors Magne My 'hate' is because the biggest improvement gains are to be had with Incarna (a 'new frontier'). Greyscale is spending too much time on areas subject to the law of diminishing returns.
In other words, more time should be spend on 'game-changers' rather than under-the-bonnet' details.
I'd say the 0.0 work is a game-changer. Espcially for all the NC members who are going to end up in craptacular space ready to invade their BFF's.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.03.27 18:59:00 -
[8]
Fanfest was better than ever. An awesome production. It reinvigorated me and got me excited all over again. There's always the "EVE IS DYING!" and "CCP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT EVE ANY MORE!" people out there, but CCP consistently makes it clear that they are looking at EVE being a fifty year game and that they put their heart and soul into the game as much as anyone playing it.
A lot of people wanted incredible new stuff to be introduced, too, and felt disappointed that there wasn't anything earth shattering. Of course, they're still working on making the promise of the last several years (ambulation and planet interactions and warfare) a reality and that's going to be a heavy long-term project. If they HAD rolled out some insane new goal right now, I would have been worried they're taking on too much.
It also seems that they're putting some more effort into refactoring and iteration. UI work, config stuff, etc.
The forums are also whiny and hate filled and depressing, though.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.27 19:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aderata Nonkin The "hate" comes from the vocal minority of cry babies who can't live with the fact they're playing an MMO where someone else than them are making the rules and is controlling the course of certain events.
This tbh. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Mors Magne
Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:20:00 -
[10]
Really - no hate? So everyone's happy that CCP still hasn't delivered on ambulation yet - I think not.
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Mors Magne
Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.27 21:47:00 -
[11]
What I hate most about Eve Online are mindless fanboys who love Eve just as it is -
They love the status-quo, mediocrity, sameness...
Eve should be about reaching for the stars, progress, evolution...
You've got to have ambition and follow it through. That's why Incarna can't happen quickly enough.
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Lise Kahel
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:07:00 -
[12]
Carebears and botters are crying. The 'hate' is extremely relative.
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Joran Dravius
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.03.27 22:56:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Joran Dravius on 27/03/2011 23:03:53
Originally by: Alesiana Valtarro Delsearro So I wasn't able to watch the fanfest feeds, but all I see is massive rage against CCP. So I am out of the loop and have no clue whats going on. What did they do now?
And why is everyone hating on Greyscale?
Complacent 0.0 carebear blobs might actually have to fight over space.
Originally by: Mors Magne What I hate most about Eve Online are mindless fanboys who love Eve just as it is -
They love the status-quo, mediocrity, sameness...
Eve should be about reaching for the stars, progress, evolution...
You've got to have ambition and follow it through. That's why Incarna can't happen quickly enough.
Because obviously Second Life in space is going to have a meaningful impact on our gameplay...
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Lubomir Penev
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.03.27 23:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Excluding the trolls and the normal nitpicking that goes around people seem to be actually very excited about what we saw in the fanfest feed. Interesting things are coming to EVE, assuming we get half of what we saw.
That would be getting a lot more than the usual shown/delivered ratio. People should look back at previous fanfests and what really came of it.. There are no macrominers in EVE |
Mors Magne
Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.28 01:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Joran Dravius Edited by: Joran Dravius on 27/03/2011 23:03:53
Because obviously Second Life in space is going to have a meaningful impact on our gameplay...
Let me correct that for you:
Because obviously fanfest is going to have a meaningful impact on our gameplay...
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Heinreiche Neitzche
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Posted - 2011.03.28 02:18:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Heinreiche Neitzche on 28/03/2011 02:18:25 I came back to the EVE-verse after a hiatus of several months. I was initially excited by the new changes that Incursion promised but that excitement soon faded as I found the same scatum...Just a different day. Skills training, especially to level 5, still takes waaaaayyyy too long. Game play is still too heavily oriented to mega-corp membership and griefers. So with no compelling reason to continue pouring money and time into this money and time sink, I'll go back to reading books for entertainment. |
Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Interesting things are coming to EVE, assuming we get half of what we saw.
I think it is very safe to assume that we will get (at most) half of what we saw.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2011.03.28 16:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 28/03/2011 16:25:45 Possible reasons for disappointment include:
"Talk is cheap" Next feature: Re-post of 2006 ideas (ambulation.) The old "new content every six months"-approach to keeping EVE interesting (and profitable,) is out the window. Enter era of vaporware-talks PLEX-centric game design.
Massive changes to EULA - specifically in areas that allow CCP to increase 'monitoring' of memory space in the name of 'looking or bots.' Even if audience accepts argument, CCP will cross the line into 'monitoring you'-land. Experience shows non-cheaters initially suffer disproportionally compared to the targets (cheaters) when they are forced to run additional software. See: Steam, DRM-software and PC games copy protection for examples. Though supportive, I worry CCP have underestimated the work and that a handful of talented guys is less than enough (and that, by underestimating, they incur a debt in 'lines-of-code' that could haunt us for years.)
Another area is the 'obvious design flaw' surrounding Nocxium. "Nothing wrong" says their economist professor. His conclusions come from the same mathematical theories that failed and continue to fail in RL. This leaves some to conclude "he's full of intestinal discharge!" Argument may be: (No high sec ore sources yields Nocxium) + (0.0/lowsec mining unrewarding compared to other activities in the area) + (must-take-all nature of upgrade-belts gives same composition in yield) all equals scarcity of nocxium when compared to all other types of minerals.
There are many problematic areas in EVE and most CCP most players do not have the brainpower to understand them. Most of those either post "people are whiners" or attend Annual drinking games to help them forget.
If you are truly in interested in "what is up with the rage," you would need to separate valid criticism from the invalid. You also have to by-pass the CSM entirely, as that have been linked to massive voter fraud (just look at the numbers if they have not already been 'edited out.')
Summary: top reasons to complain: Talk-is-cheap, where's the ambulation Lebowski?! / Wait, wait! Changes to the EULA to allow client side monitoring / Concerns about CSM voter fraud not addressed as some 30K voters turn out to be 'very new' and possibly linked to 'hours-for-plex'-account able to vote / clueless 'anomalies cause stagnation in 0.0 warfare'-team leads to 'Nerfing anomaly upgrades' and claiming that will make 0.0 warfare interesting.
So you can take a pick. I might have missed some of the oldies, but you get the picture. To some, these are not problems. To some the mere mention fills them with urges to post off topic (see genetic waste above.) In my view there are one or two REAL problems above.
1. CCP MUST account for the voting irregularities and provide community access so we can audit the elections.
2. CCP MUST Reign in anomaly-nerf-team. Not because they propose to change anomalies, but because their arguments for doing so are wrong. Their presumptions are wrong and that makes their solution wrong.
Before you cry 'mad 0.0 carebear is mad." My chars. have benefited GREATLY from upgrade-anomalies. Honestly my first thought was "this is SO broken and will ruin the game if left unchecked." So I DO agree they skew the game. But reading the "those anomaly changes"-dev blog, it is clear the people changing it do not understand what is broken. So I am perhap worried they break it even more.
Gut feeling is need to re-visit design idea behind now old 'changes to lvl. 4 missions.' All part of the old 'Here is the pure bounty payouts' vs. 'Your money/loot is in the wrecks'-discussion.
Maybe we need to move the rewards in anomalies away from bounties and into loot. Forcing supercap/cap ratters to work for their isk. Living in 0.0 should perhaps not be about just sitting in one system, not docking and still getting +1 million/minute into wallet.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2011.03.28 16:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Wall of text
Before replying, remember that 'I' do not think all of the above are real problems. I attempted to list some of the "complaints" I have been reading.
The last bit is meant seriously. Despite walls of text to the contrary, I might exhibit behaviour that could be construed as 'feelings.' Concluding that I 'care' may be a bit over the top, but I DO think there is something wrong when I use my carrier(s) + upgrades as a massive ISK-faucet and seeing the result (only eight useful ships left in sov warfare.)
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2011.03.28 17:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Another area is the 'obvious design flaw' surrounding Nocxium. "Nothing wrong" says their economist professor. His conclusions come from the same mathematical theories that failed and continue to fail in RL. This leaves some to conclude "he's full of intestinal discharge!" Argument may be: (No high sec ore sources yields Nocxium) + (0.0/lowsec mining unrewarding compared to other activities in the area) + (must-take-all nature of upgrade-belts gives same composition in yield) all equals scarcity of nocxium when compared to all other types of minerals.
Keep in mind that nocxium is exactly where they originally had it. Of course, there's going to be "nothing wrong" from CCP's point of view. Pyroxeres, drone poo, and rat loot yields nocx, so there are high sec sources.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2011.03.28 17:33:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 28/03/2011 17:33:17
Originally by: Tasko Pal Keep in mind that nocxium is exactly where they originally had it.
No it is not. 'Originally' the NPC base price was 256 isk/unit back in 2003 (or was it 128???). By focusing on the ISK value of Nocxium you are missing he point.
Originally by: Tasko Pal Of course, there's going to be "nothing wrong" from CCP's point of view. Pyroxeres, drone poo, and rat loot yields nocx, so there are high sec sources.
There is a difference between 500+ units of nocxium for every refine batch of ore and the 50 or so you get from refining a T1 module.
There are not signifigant high sec sources when taking consumption into account. Maybe CCP intend to use the nocxium-bottleneck as a limiter on the practicality of pouring all your nocx. into one ship? If that is the case, they are even more ******ed than I thought.
Also did the numbers. Drone poo wont ever give more than trace amounts of noxcium per mission. Some T1 (notably large guns) do have 300+ units of nocxium but that is hardly going to compare to 500+ per refine batch when mining the "proper ore." The problem is that people who mine arent mining that ore. The reason for that is that a) no high sec ore sources b) ore distribution in "upgrade-sites"
The "mine all before you get new site"-feature, results in a distribution of minerals from 0.0 mining that does not necessarily favour ship production. Sure 0.0 miners could mine regular belts and they certainly DO cherry pick whatever ore types are best at the time. But mining in sites is thought of as safer than belts. This results in 0.0 mining output being determined by the composition of the sites. Instead of miners being forced to choose a belt and ore type, they are focused on "emptying the site, so new 'good rocks' will spawn."
The clever miners will be mining nocxium rich ores in belts and possibly cherry pick that ore from ore-belt-upgrade sites. This will increase supply, stimulate demand and possibly shift the "good ore is..." to another type. nothing wrong there. The problem is, historically, that when the turn comes to nocxium, it tends to get out of hand because you cannot "sit comfortably and mine for that type" and there is no rich loot/drone source either.
People who have played long will know this and they laugh at the economy professor when he applies his real world mathematics and make the annual powerpoint-dance I am reminded of the 'The other guys' character David Ershon doing a spoof on Gordon Gekko's 'Greed is good'-speech.
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Turelus
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2011.03.29 08:54:00 -
[22]
I went to the fanfest previous to this one and it was great. Lots of information on the next expantion and what it would bring to the game, details about how they would develop that more.
This fanfest was disappointing because it seemed to focus more on "one day you will have this awesome feature!" and not much on what we would actually be getting in a few months. The server/code/tech talks were awesome for the tech heads that understood most of it, and Soundwaves talk about his changes might have actually been the best one imo.
I didn't rage on the forums but I didn't care tbh, nothing special was shown to how they are improving the game for me past making it look more immersive and how maybe next year I will have DUST and the rest of the station to walk in.
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Caro Gash
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Posted - 2011.03.29 09:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Caro Gash on 29/03/2011 09:18:40
Originally by: Aderata Nonkin The "hate" comes from the vocal minority of cry babies who can't live with the fact they're playing an MMO where someone else than them are making the rules and is controlling the course of certain events.
While all the "love" comes from a vocal minority of arse licking sycophants who desperately want to curry some favor so that when they finally get the guts to post their CV to head office, they can highlight how much they love the game by showing all the defense they leveled on its behalf.
PS. Events? What the hell are you talking about.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.29 09:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue Excluding the trolls and the normal nitpicking that goes around people seem to be actually very excited about what we saw in the fanfest feed. Interesting things are coming to EVE, assuming we get half of what we saw.
The Greyscale hate is because his name is in the devblog, that nerfs significant parts of 0.0 areas as far as anomalies gained through infrastructure upgrade are conserned and compnsates that by boosting areas that are already controlled by the big alliances. All in the name of helping the new guys to get a foothold in 0.0 and creating differences between areas based on system truesec level. Let's just say people aren't very impressed with his method of trying to achieve some of those goals.
Those people are, of course, ignoring the fact that there are no areas of sov 0.0 that aren't already controlled by large alliances (regardless of who's name is actually on the sov map)
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mors Magne Really - no hate? So everyone's happy that CCP still hasn't delivered on ambulation yet - I think not.
You don't need to be a so-called "fanboy" to realize that it's better they take their time with it and make Ambulation as good as they can before releasing to the public.
-)Peace through supreme firepower(- |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Caro Gash While all the "love" comes from a vocal minority of arse licking sycophants who desperately want to curry some favor
That's one flawed way of putting it. On the other hand, if you didn't have any amount of "love" for the game you wouldn't even be here, much less devoting time on spouting your nonessential opinions on the forum.
Quote: PS. Events? What the hell are you talking about.
The developers are the ones that ultimately decide the course of events for EVE Online. Not you. Nor any other vocal hater. If they want to add PVE battles and call it an Incursion they do it, no matter what you already own and control in the game.
-)Peace through supreme firepower(- |
Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 10:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Joran Dravius Edited by: Joran Dravius on 27/03/2011 23:03:53
Originally by: Alesiana Valtarro Delsearro So I wasn't able to watch the fanfest feeds, but all I see is massive rage against CCP. So I am out of the loop and have no clue whats going on. What did they do now?
And why is everyone hating on Greyscale?
Complacent 0.0 carebear blobs might actually have to fight over space.
Originally by: Mors Magne What I hate most about Eve Online are mindless fanboys who love Eve just as it is -
They love the status-quo, mediocrity, sameness...
Eve should be about reaching for the stars, progress, evolution...
You've got to have ambition and follow it through. That's why Incarna can't happen quickly enough.
Because obviously Second Life in space is going to have a meaningful impact on our gameplay...
I approve this message both are to the point and correct.
Incarna will have no Impact on gameplay at leasst for another 2 years when something similar to what you see in future video is Live. Which will not happen because FTS folks are going to pick it up play for 6 months and leave. Remember CCP console only is a mistake. But even then it will not have game play impact on EvE as we have it. It will be just prettier.
And also correct about the 0.0 flames since folks are just bunch of 0.0 care bears now and this is going t shake things up a bit.
Pod |
Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.29 11:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pod Amarr And also correct about the 0.0 flames since folks are just bunch of 0.0 care bears now and this is going t shake things up a bit.
It's very easy to come to the forum and boast about how good you are and how many kills you've got in null. The fact of the matter is, lowsec is more or less dead and this shake up of null can only be for the good.
I applaud CCP for taking the decision.
-)Peace through supreme firepower(- |
Zirketch Kruug
Minmatar Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.03.29 12:53:00 -
[29]
Lol....
now that everyone has returned home from fanfest and has internets access again the CCP forum whine indicators are spiking...
Why is everyone hating on CCP Greyscale??... because they need to whine about something and they can remember his name. Maybe next week they will whine/hate on CCP Hellmar or CCP Oveur.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.03.29 13:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zirketch Kruug Why is everyone hating on CCP Greyscale??... because they need to whine about something and they can remember his name. Maybe next week they will whine/hate on CCP Hellmar or CCP Oveur.
It's time to Protect Income and Screw The Game if the latter threatens the former.
Really, anyone who's been around for a few years should clearly see that the effects of this change would lead in the general direction the blog predicts it will.
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