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Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.03.28 10:55:00 -
[1]
Ok. Im making this post because i'd like to hear some constructive feedback about your opinion on mining. I know that 3/4 of the replies will be from ******s calling me a carebear etc...since most people on here do nothing but troll and post useless ****. And yes, im posting from a noob alt.
With the price of megacyte, zydrine and morphite as low as it is, mining in 0.0 just doesnt seem viable anymore unless you have multiple hulk pilots. Why cant CCP crack down on the botters in empire and the drone lands to help bring the prices back up to a natural level...or change the mineral requirement for capitals?
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
/end rant
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.28 10:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:01:53
Depends what you mean by "viable". A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway. Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:03:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19
Carebear.
Also reported for evading the profanity filter.
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
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Neamus
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:24:00 -
[4]
Botting is bad m'kay, but honestly this has been discussed to death already. CCP are already well aware that we want it stopped, lets just give them a bit of space and see what they come up with. Apparently they recently hired a couple of security specialists just for this purpose, so no doubt they're working hard to impress their new overlords (us, indirectly...).
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BlackSparrowHawk
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Londo Cebb Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19
Carebear.
Also reported for evading the profanity filter.
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
OP could have meant afking and just missed out the a. I use that term all the time.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.28 11:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: BlackSparrowHawk OP could have meant afking and just missed out the a. I use that term all the time.
No, there's just one SPACE too many _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Grimpak on 28/03/2011 13:03:04
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:31:07
Depends what you mean by "viable".
A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway. Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much.
P.S. But yeah, you have a point, there's something out of whack there. However, I think the solution is to tweak what ores refine into rather than change ship build requirements.
mining ops in empire aren't really that profitable either. They do excellent gatherings for new and old people alike tho, so it's good for socialization. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Kacer Xenro
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kacer Xenro on 28/03/2011 13:10:29 -derp, ignore-
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:17:00 -
[9]
People still mine? Honestly?
Isn't it still slightly more profitable isk/h wise to buy the mins you need instead of mining? And use that time running missions or market trading.
Only reason I can see for mining is if your mining ABC ore in 0.0 or its a logistical issue. Granted I haven't been following Indy for quite some time now.
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Alty McExpendable
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:22:00 -
[10]
I really wish I could get a refund for the SP I invested in training a Hulk pilot. Mining is worthless and under the current system will continue to be worthless.
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Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai People still mine? Honestly?
Yeah, bots. Then they wonder why prices are so flat. There is really only one way left to make isk in this game, ...scam ;) But meh to high volume isk making imo.
Pilot's Journal |
Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:27:00 -
[12]
mining is a profession for alts (i'm not going to mention bots...) anymore since it can be done while really playing on your main. its good for added income if you can afford the extra accounts, or can make enough to pay via plex (i.e. can afford the time). if you dont have the time or the money... then dont do mining. missions, ratting, production... everything else int he game is a better isk earner.
further, IMO mining should be a low yield activity since it takes no understanding, skill or even attention to do it.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 28/03/2011 13:30:01
Originally by: Omega Sunset
Originally by: Brooks Puuntai People still mine? Honestly?
Yeah, bots. Then they wonder why prices are so flat. There is really only one way left to make isk in this game, ...scam ;) But meh to high volume isk making imo.
Scamming is to hit or miss. Also after awile you need to cycle alts due to people catching on. Not the best consistent way of making isk imo.
Really the best way is through market trading granted you have the initial isk to invest and the will to search the market abit. You do have to compete some with the 0.01 isk "bots" but its not that bad.
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Dani Nardieu
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:33:00 -
[14]
It's pretty much my impression that CCP intentionally tried to destroy the mining profession with the introduction of the drone regions because the macroing problem seemed unsalvageable with their resources at the time. Combat characters simply have no business producing more minerals than miners do that's like putting damage modifiers on strip miners (hey, why the hell not ? )
Which of course created an even greater rating bot problem .
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Dr Larry Goldstein
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:35:00 -
[15]
I wish CCP could refund me the skills I spent on Exhumers V. This stuff is absolutely absurd. No profit is ever made.
I still haven't even paid off my Hulk. I don't see it a boring profession as often I read. No, I'm not a carebear at all, I wanted the ultimate passive income while I read caselaw.
Now while I get some profit... the 2 months of training give or take has been an absolute waste because of the botting.
Destroy more AFK miners.
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Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Londo Cebb Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19
Carebear.
Also reported for evading the profanity filter.
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
^^ Sigh...this is exactly the kind of person that shouldnt even be on the forums. All they do is post useless replies that are off topic. Thanks to the rest of you though. Its given me some good insight into the feelings of my fellow capsuleers.
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Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:31:07
Depends what you mean by "viable".
A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway. Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much.
P.S. But yeah, you have a point, there's something out of whack there. However, I think the solution is to tweak what ores refine into rather than change ship build requirements.
I make 270 mil per hour running nullsec missions in an unscannable ship, solo, where there is actually a smaller chance of being ganked then in high sec.
And professional wormhole clowns make several times more then me.
So no, I would say mining is NOT viable unless you are attempting to roleplay a character living in constant poverty.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.03.28 13:54:00 -
[18]
Some would say that mining rocks and can be an ice way to pass the time.
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Dr Larry Goldstein
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Some would say that mining rocks and can be an ice way to pass the time.
Especially if you love reading and have multiple monitors. It's terrible income though as stated due to the excessive botting in Empire.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:09:00 -
[20]
I wouldn't say it was unprofitable, but it's certainly not profitable in relative terms (relative to almost everything else you can do in Eve). I've currently got 200m of trit, 100m of Pye, 130m of Nocx, 80m of Isogen, 65m of Mexallon and under 10k of Zyd in my hanger (a little zyd from mining high sec anoms). So you know, I've made over half a bill from 9 or 10 mining sessions, around 3 - 4 hours each time, with 3 characters (2 x Hulk and 1 Orca). Of course it bores me to death, which is why I have one eye on the op and the other on Liz Hurley upskirt photos .
The problems with mineral supply are obvious:
(1) You can reprocess loot into minerals (2) Drone region ratting (3) Mining bots
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Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:20:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 14:24:33
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
^^ Sigh...this is exactly the kind of person that shouldn't even be on the forums. All they do is post useless replies that are off topic. Thanks to the rest of you though. Its given me some good insight into the feelings of my fellow capsuleers.
Your absolutely right I should not be allowed on the forums, but since CCP has allowed to keep posting I will give a serious response to your thinly veiled "I want more ISK whine thread"
Bots are a serious issue, but they are not the only problem with the mining profession. The entire mechanic needs to be re-thought from the ground up. I have seen many suggestions for doing this and I do not claim know the right one. Some have mentioned hiding all belts, so probing would be required to find them.
My ideal solution would be one that requires skill points, AND player skill to get significantly higher mining yields. Something like the current PI mechanic perhaps, where you had to target specific parts of a asteroid to get any results, or some other ACTIVE player involvement, other than target, activate laser, get ore. Maybe add tracking to mining lasers and make roids move.
I really don't claim to have the answer, but something along those lines would not only make botting much more difficult, but also add some entertainment value to the act of mining itself, and provide much more income to those who spent the time training and put work in to get good at their craft. (I am sure many of you would hate this type of idea as you can no longer mine and look at "Liz Hurley upskirt photos" but then again not paying attention to what your doing should not be rewarded in my opinion.)
Of course this does not take care of other sources of minerals, but perhaps if balanced across the board very carefully.......never mind (I love you CCP)
Just the opinion of a useless troll.
[Edit] They're/their/there
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QU0RRA
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Posted - 2011.03.28 14:36:00 -
[22]
I would like to add my views on the matter.
The MAIN problem with mining as being a "horrible profession" is down to 1 problem, bots. Bots lower the price of minerals via the drone regions and due to empire bots selling low to get "quick" ISK.
The problem could be solved with 2 actions;
1, Nuke ALL bots, I have seen some folks rage against RMT bots but say that it is ok for "little bobby" to run a bot to make ISK to fund his eve career (either PvP or Empirebearpirate). BOTH are a bane, all the "little Bobbies" out there sell low to get the quick ISK. They don't care, they didn't work for the minerals.
2. Change the drops from Drones, nuke it like they did for LvL4 missions. A change would effect the minerals market "Big time".
Changing these 2 things would fundamentally change the minerals market forever. Of course this brings in the change that more profit brings in more players which lowers price which makes some miners leave which rises the price but thats a different story
BTW, not everyone AFK mines. In particular multiboxers whom have those accounts to manage. I have never seen any multiboxers run cargoexpanding hulks AFK. The majority run in Hulk gangs with Orca support, hulks which are fitted for either max yeild (or max tank during Hulkageddon). Any that do, well we have Helicity to sort those out. These multiboxers, love them or loathe them bring in extra revenue to CCP WITHIN the TOS and EULA, well those multis who do it all manually and not via synergy etc.
So hopefully CCP will take these into account when dealing with mining. Captcha, Recaptcha, mining minigames etc will affect these legal accounts. Or if CCP bring about one of these that they allow people to respec their other accounts or these become inactive, lowering revenue etc. Whatever, its all speculation from here.
Two things I would like to see CCP bring in would be to bring in scannable asteroid belts, wether they replace "normal" belts or are secondary is fine by me but I would be more in favour to have them scannable to hinder bots. Another one is to bring in the comets as a source of ice but that sort of steps on the toes of the scannable belts system which could include icebelts.
Well thats enough of my ramblings but I wanted to get this out there since I seen that CCP does read the threads and takes views into account. Especially threads that Akita T posts in.
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Bane Necran on 28/03/2011 15:21:34
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Some would say that mining rocks and can be an ice way to pass the time.
I do it now and then just to relax, not really for isk. I often liken it to fishing. One time someone kept stealing from my can and i just kept mining. They probably thought i was a bot.
Would be nice if they did something to increase the value of minerals, getting rid of bots is always a good idea, but it's not desperately needed. It's still good isk for new pilots compared to their alternatives.
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Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: QU0RRA
2. Change the drops from Drones, nuke it like they did for LvL4 missions. A change would effect the minerals market "Big time".
They already nuked drones at the same time as they did lvl4 missions, people just got more bots.
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Seul Manus
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Seul Manus on 28/03/2011 15:45:06 Without miners, everything in Eve would come to a stop.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Seul Manus Edited by: Seul Manus on 28/03/2011 15:45:06 Without miners bots, everything in Eve would come to a stop.
FYP
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.28 15:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Londo Cebb Edited by: Londo Cebb on 28/03/2011 11:05:19
Carebear.
Also reported for evading the profanity filter.
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
GOSH DARN IT. ok report me bish.
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Mella Elcus
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Posted - 2011.03.28 16:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Londo Cebb Also reported for evading the profanity filter.
Thanks for keeping those immoral swear words of the forums. See you in church on Sunday.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.03.28 16:25:00 -
[29]
I mine in high sec. If I just use one account and sold the minerals I'd get around 6 mil an hour. But I use the minerals to make stuff I sell with about a 50% markup, so 9 mil an hour. But I rarely use just one account. Add an orca and (after manufacturing and selling) the profit goes to 15 mil an hour. That can be done with low attention, while watching TV, reading, trolling forums, etc.
Add the third account, a second Hulk, and I go to 30 million an hour. That usually increases the effort to the point that its hard to do alot of reading. TV watching still works. 30 mil an hour is hardly poverty. An hour a day or a little more pays for PLEXs for all accounts.
If the present CCP anti-bot effort works, we should see mineral prices rise, along with all stuff made from minerals. But we should also see PLEX prices drop as the botters stop supporting multiple accounts with their bot income. The result: hours of mining needed to buy a PLEX will go down.
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Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
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Posted - 2011.03.28 16:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Joe Skellington
GOSH DARN IT. ok report me bish.
Done.
Originally by: Mella Elcus Thanks for keeping those immoral swear words of the forums. See you in church on Sunday.
You are very welcome, but I am Jewish.
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BlackSparrowHawk
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Posted - 2011.03.28 18:47:00 -
[31]
OP has a point thats been mentioned several times in the past. The great thing about eve is that theres so much to do. No pointing in dumbing down the game with just pve and pvp... may as well rename the game WOW in Space. I'm mostly plexing but if ever iwant a change of pace, something to do whilst hanging out on a lively chat channell i go mine.
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Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.04.02 05:29:00 -
[32]
Sigh...the sad thing is I doubt CCP will do anything about it. It takes them years to do anything. As someone said previously, this topic has been discussed to death. Well perhaps that is what's needed to get something done????
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.04.02 05:40:00 -
[33]
If mining was a waste of time, then people wouldn't do it so much. That would drive up the ore prices, which would make mining worthwhile.
It doesn't matter what your limited view can see, it's a simple fact that somebody mines and they like doing that. If you don't like doing it then don't do it, just buy your minerals and pay the people who do it for you. -- "[Reaver Glitterstim] I will make your war look like a schoolyard scuffle, FATHER."
-Lyra Belacquae telling what my avatar is probably thinking |
JitaBUGz TheGreat
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Posted - 2011.04.02 05:55:00 -
[34]
Edited by: JitaBUGz TheGreat on 02/04/2011 05:59:51 Edited by: JitaBUGz TheGreat on 02/04/2011 05:58:44
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Ok. Im making this post because i'd like to hear some constructive feedback about your opinion on mining. I know that 3/4 of the replies will be from ******s calling me a carebear etc...since most people on here do nothing but troll and post useless ****. And yes, im posting from a noob alt.
With the price of megacyte, zydrine and morphite as low as it is, mining in 0.0 just doesnt seem viable anymore unless you have multiple hulk pilots. Why cant CCP crack down on the botters in empire and the drone lands to help bring the prices back up to a natural level...or change the mineral requirement for capitals?
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
/end rant
Remove 80% of mining in high sec. I hate mining, but I fund my ganker with it. And have to say Empire mining needs a huge nurf.
And yes my miner lives in Empire, and the odd wormhole. But coming from what I can do with it,(no risk-mega isk) I think mining, needs a huge revamp.
And so the new players can have a good source on income still, Any, convetor/hulk or the likes of them. In anything .7 or above. Concord the roid slayers!!!
About 80-90% of the miners i gank are afk/macro. So I get to come back and pop a doodle do there little pod!! (After the stupid 15 min timer of course )
Triple the capitol ship costs!!!!!!!!!!! I need my isk's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also Orca's in low or null only!!!!!!!!!!
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.04.02 06:21:00 -
[35]
Mining should be more fun. Efficient mining should be more interactive and require more brains. Mining should have more variety. Mining should..... oh well, who am I kidding, it's not going to change anyways. --------
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mantis prime
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Posted - 2011.04.02 07:39:00 -
[36]
I'm just curious.
Since mining is a BOT haven and there is no stopping bots, ever, would it make more sense to release a HOW TO for botting?
A video on how to setup your very own botting program without paying a dime?
How many people would actually be interested in this instructional "not for profit" video?
In other words I will not charge you anything not even a penny, it would however open up botting to EVERYONE in the game. step by step....
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Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
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Posted - 2011.04.02 07:45:00 -
[37]
Mining was awesome during my school days.
- Park in a belt.
- Turn lasers on.
- Start doing homework.
- Drag and drop a little box every 3 minutes.
- PROFIT!
Two billion ISK later, I graduated and found myself with enough money to buy some shiny new battleships!
Unfortunately I can't mine anymore since if I even dare to switch to a Navitas, the bot police tears down my door and holds me at gunpoint throughout my entire session. __________________________________
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.02 08:14:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 02/04/2011 08:14:41 Mining is perhaps one of the lowest entry barrier professions and apparently the crappiest. It has a profit factor that few other professions do so well and that factor is why you won't see mining stopping anytime soon.
The factor is under your eyes, you just have to open them.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Arcathra
Minmatar Technodyne Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.04.02 08:17:00 -
[39]
I don't think mining is worthless.
I'm a very dedicated miner by myself and the income is okay for me. Maybe because I'm not trying to fund PLEX for 6 Accounts through mining. Mining in 0.0 and high-sec is very riskless (apart from the rare ganker ganking your ship) and for that, the payment is okay. With my Hulk I can make about 8-9 million ISK per hour, in a fleet about one million more and even more with Orca support. For me, as an high-sec and low-sec pilot, it is enough. Looking at the mineral prices of ABC ores, a 0.0 miner should make about 2 to 3.5 more ISK per hour than me. That would be roughly 16-28 million ISK per hour. Sounds pretty neat I would say.
Of course there is more ISK lieing around in missions and anomalies, but that is okay. There is more risk involved and depending on the missions you get, the income may not be steady. I guess I could make 1.5 to 3 times the money in level 4 missions per hour, depending what ship I use and if flying alone or with a small fleet. I don't know about the 0.0 anomalies.
The point of mining is, that the minerals are needed to build new ships and modules. Because of this fact, it will always be worthwhile. I understand that there are people who don't like mining, it can sometimes be boring. Mostly not, because to get a good yield you have to use your survey scanner and pay attention to the cycles of your strip miners. If you don't afk mine, you will get better payment at the end.
Don't get me wrong, the payment could be better and the mineral prices may be better without the bots and without mission loot and drone compounds giving too many minerals. But it could be worse. My point is: if you don't like mining and only doing it for the ISK, than do something else that is more worthwhile for you. EVE is big and there are many more ISK sources.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.04.02 08:34:00 -
[40]
Mining makes me go a big rubbery one. I honestly have no idea why you guys do it. I would rather give up my middle toe than ever have to mine. I'm not even kidding... it's a worthless toe anyway. I scam the markets and camp for haulers. It's 2 hours of boredom punctuated by an iteron mk V detonation. Collect a months worth of that guys loot and set up the next gank. Fun in the suns. Ninja looting in Tama (ie looting and salvaging wrecks you didn't kill in a T2 destroyer w/ 6 salvagers, cloak, and all stabs low) will average you 50-200+ mil per hr. There are so many things you can do that pay better than mining... I don't even bother killing miners because it's just not worth it. I feel sorry for you all. Truly. It's heartbreaking to see people mine... it's like watching a ******ed guy beg for change. Yah I got 12 cents dude... go buy some ramen. Enjoy. Don't starve. It's just sad sad sad. Let the bots mine I guess is my stance on it.
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2011.04.02 09:29:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gogela Mining makes me go a big rubbery one. I honestly have no idea why you guys do it. I would rather give up my middle toe than ever have to mine. I'm not even kidding... it's a worthless toe anyway. I scam the markets and camp for haulers. It's 2 hours of boredom punctuated by an iteron mk V detonation. Collect a months worth of that guys loot and set up the next gank. Fun in the suns. Ninja looting in Tama (ie looting and salvaging wrecks you didn't kill in a T2 destroyer w/ 6 salvagers, cloak, and all stabs low) will average you 50-200+ mil per hr. There are so many things you can do that pay better than mining... I don't even bother killing miners because it's just not worth it. I feel sorry for you all. Truly. It's heartbreaking to see people mine... it's like watching a ******ed guy beg for change. Yah I got 12 cents dude... go buy some ramen. Enjoy. Don't starve. It's just sad sad sad. Let the bots mine I guess is my stance on it.
What you said is all true. But let me ask you this: if you surf the internet for upskirt pictures of Liz Hurley, or go and get another beer from the fridge, or go to do big jobbies, or decide to hoover your lounge, or straighten the painting of Queen Elizabeth, or take a phone call from Pope Benedict, or argue about the true aims of the Illuminati with conspiracy theorists on The Telegraph website, well, you'll probably miss that hauler coming through the gate.
Mining allows you to play the game without really paying any attention to it, and that is why I sometimes enjoy doing it.
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Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
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Posted - 2011.04.02 11:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
1. Mine where it isn't a waste of time. 2. Haul to wherever you need the mins. 3. ??? 4.
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2011.04.02 14:11:00 -
[43]
1. They are working on the botters. Just because they don't make a new blog about every single account banned doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Whether they're doing enough is another story, given that most null empires are run by botters.
2. They could help mining out a lot by getting rid of all meta 0-2 loot from level 3, 4 and 5 missions. And don't replace it with metal scraps this time either. These are supposed to be the more powerful enemies, they wouldn't be using junk.
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Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.04.02 14:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
1. Mine where it isn't a waste of time. 2. Haul to wherever you need the mins. 3. ??? 4.
I have access to arkanor. how is that not a waste of time? my point is...0.0 mining isn't as profitable as running havens/sanctums in a carrier. Empire mining is a different story because you can do it virtually afk. Not to mention the amount of bots out there. I would also like to know why the gm's don't do anything about those of us who provide very significant evidence about bots that we come across. I understand that people who use a mining alt to fund their pvp toon can get good revenue, but how much time do u spend doing it...even if it requires minimal attention? basically, if the botting was taken care of, mining would benefit all of us...at least those of us who actually sit at our pc playing eve, not letting a program do the work for us, in empire or 0.0.
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Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
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Posted - 2011.04.02 14:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
1. Mine where it isn't a waste of time. 2. Haul to wherever you need the mins. 3. ??? 4.
I have access to arkanor. how is that not a waste of time? my point is...0.0 mining isn't as profitable as running havens/sanctums in a carrier. Empire mining is a different story because you can do it virtually afk. Not to mention the amount of bots out there. I would also like to know why the gm's don't do anything about those of us who provide very significant evidence about bots that we come across. I understand that people who use a mining alt to fund their pvp toon can get good revenue, but how much time do u spend doing it...even if it requires minimal attention? basically, if the botting was taken care of, mining would benefit all of us...at least those of us who actually sit at our pc playing eve, not letting a program do the work for us, in empire or 0.0.
I'm not sure how I can make it more clear to you...
Either you mine the minerals you want, where you want them, or you do something that produces more ISK and spend some of it on buying minerals and moving them to where you want them.
Mineral prices are balanced by supply and demand, if you think they are too cheap, you are wrong, because someone else thinks otherwise and won't stop selling cheap just because you are upset on the forum.
If you want the prices to rise, find a way to increase demand or decrease supply.
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IoWalker
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Posted - 2011.04.02 14:54:00 -
[46]
It's quite obvious that CCP has had to accept the big account botting as part of the effort to stabilize prices in the market.
They kind of take a view to market manipulation as necessary for consistency in consumer products. If suddenly all bots went away, there would be very significant dislocation in the markets, then suddenly all these real players would be ****ed for a whole new reason. "WHY IS MY HURRICANE $400m?!1one! ???"
But what puzzles me about CCP sheltering these major bot programs, and even the individuals who also run them, is that do they have so very very little confidence in human beings to supply the market with what it needs? And not only that, let's say humans somehow fail to do that, THAT would be an interesting game!!!
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Shandir
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.02 16:53:00 -
[47]
Originally by: QU0RRA These multiboxers, love them or loathe them bring in extra revenue to CCP WITHIN the TOS and EULA, well those multis who do it all manually and not via synergy etc.
I would just like to correct an error in your post - Synergy isn't a botting tool. All it is is a software KVM-switch (keyboard/video/mouse - except no video in synergy), you can control only one PC at a time, much like you let go of PC1's mouse and moved PC2's mouse. It doesn't mirror, it doesn't macro, it just lets you move your mouse from screen 1 to screen 2, and applies your keyboard input to whatever screen your mouse is on. It is a useful tool, in theory for people running EVE on multiple computers (I used to use it to browse forums on one crappy PC and run EVE on another), but it doesn't reduce the user input level in any way. Please don't mix up good, benign tools with those that hurt the game. Do your research. -
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Steele Balz
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Posted - 2011.04.02 17:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: With the price of megacyte, zydrine and morphite as low as it is, mining in 0.0 just doesnt seem viable anymore unless you have multiple hulk pilots. Why cant CCP crack down on the botters in empire and the drone lands [/quote
lol last i checked the megacyte you mine in the a,b,c doesnt come from alloys if so very little found in the drone region ive seen first hand macro miners in tenal venal and so on 25+ hulks insta warp to pos ive also seen botting tengu's ravens and the like no need for a hauler alt in those regions you want to ban macro miners mmkay open your map check development indices under industry look for the bright blue spots you'll see what im talking about
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.04.02 19:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Burnharder What you said is all true. But let me ask you this: if you surf the internet for upskirt pictures of Liz Hurley, or go and get another beer from the fridge, or go to do big jobbies, or decide to hoover your lounge, or straighten the painting of Queen Elizabeth, or take a phone call from Pope Benedict, or argue about the true aims of the Illuminati with conspiracy theorists on The Telegraph website, well, you'll probably miss that hauler coming through the gate.
Mining allows you to play the game without really paying any attention to it, and that is why I sometimes enjoy doing it.
I don't understand I guess... you were asking a question? ...but you're quite right... the Pope is a chatterbox and I always seem to set him off on some rant with my hedonistic ways. Many a hauler has escaped my camp for a chatty pope. Fair enough though... I can sure appreciate the need to play EvE Lite If you enjoy it than have at it... you'll have nothing to worry about from me. My heart goes out to you...
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.04.02 19:32:00 -
[50]
Yeah, mining is pointless. The game evolved a completly different way than I assume the CCP devs planned. Being a miner or in a miner corp is putting yourself at a disadvantage in any PvP encounter, for something that makes less money than almost every other form of PvE in the game.
Unfortunately revamping it would have a huge potential to screw up EVE's economy, as it means also revamping minerals. So the status quo wil remain.
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Kitty Cantblock
Caldari Evil Monkey Asylum SoulWing Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.02 19:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Ok. Im making this post because i'd like to hear some constructive feedback about your opinion on mining. I know that 3/4 of the replies will be from ******s calling me a carebear etc...since most people on here do nothing but troll and post useless ****. And yes, im posting from a noob alt.
With the price of megacyte, zydrine and morphite as low as it is, mining in 0.0 just doesnt seem viable anymore unless you have multiple hulk pilots. Why cant CCP crack down on the botters in empire and the drone lands to help bring the prices back up to a natural level...or change the mineral requirement for capitals?
Right now, as i see it, mining in 0.0 is just a fking waste of time.
/end rant
If you think being a HULK pilot with a hauler or Orca alt is not a good way to make ISk, ud be talking out your ass. I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.
If your not making decent amounts of money mining. Your not doing it right. Simple as that tbfh
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2011.04.02 20:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.
you can make 150m per week for 4-5 hours per day? And you find this to be a good income? _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like. |
Khanya Trace
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Posted - 2011.04.02 23:05:00 -
[53]
The topic is all wrong, mining will always be profitable, because it is needed to produce everything. The real problem are all the bots that throw so many minerals into the market, that it isnt profitable for everyone else.
Finally nuking all the botters instead of holding their hand and asking them once every 6 months to please stop cheating is the only way to solve this
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IIIAsharakIII
Hostile Takeover.
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Posted - 2011.04.02 23:07:00 -
[54]
It seems the hardest part about fixing the mining profession is the choice in direction. Which solution would give us the best result?
I don't think adjusting quantities is the right direction, nor nerfbatting the other professions. The more and more I look into it, the more I feel that the profession itself was created broken, and as the game grew it continued to get worse.
So in my honest opinion, I think that the old ideas (aside from banning RMTers) aren't going to get us anywhere in the long run, and we should go for a more revolutionary solution.
Maybe we should focus on belt arrangements? Something like making the most out of each solar system. After all, in some ways eve diminishes the vastness of a solar system with our tech(we can zip right through it at warp speed), but it should still *feel* large enough to get lost in; How much fun would that be right?
Ok maybe not. Sorry to derail, I thought I'd leave my thoughts, since you left us yours
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Khanya Trace
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Posted - 2011.04.02 23:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: IIIAsharakIII It seems the hardest part about fixing the mining profession is the choice in direction. Which solution would give us the best result?
I don't think adjusting quantities is the right direction, nor nerfbatting the other professions. The more and more I look into it, the more I feel that the profession itself was created broken, and as the game grew it continued to get worse.
So in my honest opinion, I think that the old ideas (aside from banning RMTers) aren't going to get us anywhere in the long run, and we should go for a more revolutionary solution.
Maybe we should focus on belt arrangements? Something like making the most out of each solar system. After all, in some ways eve diminishes the vastness of a solar system with our tech(we can zip right through it at warp speed), but it should still *feel* large enough to get lost in; How much fun would that be right?
Ok maybe not. Sorry to derail, I thought I'd leave my thoughts, since you left us yours
you dont understand markets very well. Increasing mining gain in any way will not make mining any better, because there is now more ore, so it sells cheaper. Decreasing pve combat isk will not change anything, because there is now less money in eve, so prices deflate, including ore prices.
Just reduce the amount o people that mine not caring how much money it makes them compared to more involved stuff (bots) and things are fixed.
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Caghji
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Posted - 2011.04.03 00:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Londo Cebb
Bots are a serious issue, but they are not the only problem with the mining profession. The entire mechanic needs to be re-thought from the ground up. I have seen many suggestions for doing this and I do not claim know the right one. Some have mentioned hiding all belts, so probing would be required to find them.
My ideal solution would be one that requires skill points, AND player skill to get significantly higher mining yields. Something like the current PI mechanic perhaps, where you had to target specific parts of a asteroid to get any results, or some other ACTIVE player involvement, other than target, activate laser, get ore. Maybe add tracking to mining lasers and make roids move.
I really don't claim to have the answer, but something along those lines would not only make botting much more difficult, but also add some entertainment value to the act of mining itself, and provide much more income to those who spent the time training and put work in to get good at their craft. (I am sure many of you would hate this type of idea as you can no longer mine and look at "Liz Hurley upskirt photos" but then again not paying attention to what you're doing should not be rewarded in my opinion.)
Of course this does not take care of other sources of minerals, but perhaps if balanced across the board very carefully.......never mind (I love you CCP)
Just the opinion of a useless troll.
[Edit] They're/their/there
+1
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.03 00:57:00 -
[57]
Mining, as well as Research & Manufacturing, desperately needs to be more interactive.
I'm not an alt |
Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.04.03 01:07:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock If you think being a HULK pilot with a hauler or Orca alt is not a good way to make ISk, ud be talking out your ass. I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.
Ok...let me get this straight. Say your talking about a full week (7 days). If you mine 5 hrs each day thats 35 fking hours. And all you get is 150mil? I rest my case.
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Maken Cheese
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Posted - 2011.04.03 01:25:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock If you think being a HULK pilot with a hauler or Orca alt is not a good way to make ISk, ud be talking out your ass. I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.
If your not making decent amounts of money mining. Your not doing it right. Simple as that tbfh
This made me laugh. Mining 4 hours a day, 7 days a week and getting 150 million leaves you at around 5 million isk per hour. By comparison, a highsec L4 runner can pull 70-80 million per hour with a decent lineup of missions.
Mining is a horrible investment. Even in nullsec, mining is crap compared to the money you can make running anoms, missions, and/or plexes.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.04.03 02:20:00 -
[60]
Mining is currently a very AFK-friendly activity. Thus there are many people mining while AFK. It doesn't take a genius to realize that as long as mining produces any income at all, people will AFK mine with as many characters as they have access to.
You don't have to invent armies of bots to blame for the low prices of minerals, when the oversupply of minerals is easily enough explained by the number of "legitimate" players AFK mining because they believe that 2M ISK/hr is better than nothing.
If you have proof that someone is botting, you report them and gank their Hulk. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2011.04.03 02:40:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.
I think your math is off. I just emptied my system of Veld (9hrs) and ended up with about 60mil trit which is currently going for a bit over 171mil isk.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.04.03 02:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: T'Laar Bok I think your math is off. I just emptied my system of Veld (9hrs) and ended up with about 60mil trit which is currently going for a bit over 171mil isk.
How many characters were involved with that mining operation? -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.04.03 03:44:00 -
[63]
Originally by: T'Laar Bok
Originally by: Kitty Cantblock I can make at least 150mil a week doing 4-5 hours mining a day.
I think your math is off. I just emptied my system of Veld (9hrs) and ended up with about 60mil trit which is currently going for a bit over 171mil isk.
Sounds to me like youve used a few hulk toons...and you weren't fully afk. The effort that you probably used wouldn't of been worth the 171 mil after 9 hrs of eye bleeding mining.
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.03 08:17:00 -
[64]
People whine and complain about botting but they don't know what they are in for if CCP actually rids the game of it.
Wait and see how loud the cries get when ships and modules triple or quadruple in price.
It. Will. Be. Epic.
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Bellac
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Posted - 2011.04.03 10:26:00 -
[65]
Mining needs an overhaul - simple as that.
Botting problems are going nowhere fast because mining is soo mind numbingly boring. People who mine alot (for what ever reason) at some point will use some sort of AFK feature to enable them to mine better while they are in the lavvy or making a brew simply because mining for long peroids is like pouring hot sand in your eyes.
Make mining more engaging. Make it more difficult to automate. Balance the fact that people will ahve to sit at their puters to mine by having better tech to improve mining and hauling rates. And most importantly give any new ideas time to work.
While any new methods of mining are introduced there is bound to be spikes in mineral prices which will affect everything, but the Devs are in a position to seed minerals to keep the prices stable while things even themselves out - anyone with long memories will remember that this used to happen in the distant past so there is precident.
Either way - the worst possible thing that can happen in the world of mining is to do nothing
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.04.03 10:52:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Wait and see how loud the cries get when ships and modules triple or quadruple in price.
It. Will. Be. Epic.
There will be no epic wailing and gnashing of teeth. There are already humans who actively mine because they like mining as an accompaniment to their recreational drug of choice (eg: alcohol). There are already humans who semi-AFK mine due to the income they get being better than nothing.
As the value of the ore goes up, more hulk fleets will be dusted off.
There will be ample opportunity for arbitrage traders to profit from the market between bots being banned en masse (which is not going to happen, CCP Sreegs told us so) and the market stabilising once new sources of ores/minerals become active.
The price of minerals and ice will rise to a maximum of about 2x previous market stable value (as witnessed by ice prices during Hulkageddon), then return close to current levels as the market stabilizes and the previously dusted-off hulk fleets are returned to mothballs.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Dazram Two
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Posted - 2011.04.03 10:56:00 -
[67]
I've pretty much abaondoned mining as a profession.
It's gotten to a point where CCP could remove it from the game and nothing would change. Sad really.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.03 13:35:00 -
[68]
if you have to have multiple accounts to make a profession worth the time, then something be ****ed up with that profession. Needs fixing.
Confirming that I mined solo for a while in a hulk, the income was pathetic.
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.03 18:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mara Rinn The price of minerals and ice will rise to a maximum of about 2x previous market stable value (as witnessed by ice prices during Hulkageddon), then return close to current levels as the market stabilizes and the previously dusted-off hulk fleets are returned to mothballs.
The number of Hulks killed during Hulkageddon is a tiny fraction of the number of Hulks actively operating in the game and the prices rebound quickly because it's rarely bots that are getting killed.
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Frozen Anya
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Posted - 2011.04.03 18:34:00 -
[70]
Why not take away the greatest advantage bots have.... Automation.
Make it just like PI. You go and drop some assets on roids and come back hours days or weeks later to haul. The skills would boost the extraction rates, allow more mining drones or whatever to be deployed at one time.
This makes every player capable of what bots can do and takes their current unfair advantage away. We all still have minerals and ships become even cheaper. Miners can go do other things and we have more people in incursions, pve and pvp.
In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.
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Frozen Anya
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Posted - 2011.04.03 18:38:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Frozen Anya on 03/04/2011 18:39:10 Sorry double post
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.04.03 18:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Frozen Anya
In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.
you're underestimating the portion of the eve playerbase that actually enjoys mining. They exist. I do not understand, but more power to them.
I'm more for the idea of making mining like a minigame or somehow more in-depth than point laser, click, and wait, but for some reason a lot of people are against that (probably mostly because then they'd actually have to play the game..)
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Awesome Possum
Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2011.04.03 18:52:00 -
[73]
Quote: The Mining profession. It's a waste of time.
stop mining
/end thread ♥
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Frozen Anya
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Posted - 2011.04.03 18:57:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Frozen Anya
In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.
you're underestimating the portion of the eve playerbase that actually enjoys mining. They exist. I do not understand, but more power to them.
I'm more for the idea of making mining like a minigame or somehow more in-depth than point laser, click, and wait, but for some reason a lot of people are against that (probably mostly because then they'd actually have to play the game..)
You're right, I've had times I really enjoyed mining for sure. But I just don't see how many people looked at eve before playing and said, "I wanna be a miner!". They probabally started because they wanted ISK to build an industrial empire or fight or just buy pretty ships.
I'm just of the belief that if it becomes a mini game, it will be botted. Bots can read captchas, they will definitely be able to complete mini games that are easy enough for new EvE pilots. This being my belief, you still give the botters the advantage of time and resistance to boredom. My plan eliminates that advantage by removing it entirely. Sure you have to fly out and "fuel" your miners / collect your ore. But that sorta thing isn't a huge advantage for botters (even though they are capable) because you are limited to how much you can mine in the first place (in my vision of automated PI style miners).
This is a low hanging fruit strategy.. There is no easy way to truly rid eve of bots, so just take their advantages away and level the playing field..
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Awesome Possum
Original Sin. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
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Posted - 2011.04.03 19:13:00 -
[75]
Yes, mining is really fun and exciting when done in a fleet and everyone's drunk.
Miner #1: WHOO just took another shot, hot damn! Miner #2: OMFG Guys! I just accidentally mined some scordite! All: HAHAHAHAHAHA WTF Miner #1: You nub! Oh snap, rats! KILL THE RATS!
where do i sign up? ♥
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.04.03 19:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Frozen Anya
In the end nobody WANTS to mine. We mine so we can buy ships and fly or buy other assets. All the other big industries like moon mining and pi are fairly automated. This reduces things we don't want to do and maximizes our time doing what we want to do. Blow people up in spaceships.
you're underestimating the portion of the eve playerbase that actually enjoys mining. They exist. I do not understand, but more power to them.
I'm more for the idea of making mining like a minigame or somehow more in-depth than point laser, click, and wait, but for some reason a lot of people are against that (probably mostly because then they'd actually have to play the game..)
That is exactly it. They don't want the gameplay style they have grown to like to be nerfed out of existance and CCP shouldn't do that. Also a minigame that just increases yealds would propably just buff bots, since they are more likely than regular players to not get bored or tired of it and would propably end up being more efficient at it in the long run. On the other hand the minigame would have to be extrememly fun for the players to play or they wouldn't bother with it on a regular basis and fun minigames isn't something CCP does well. In such a system the bots could easily end up mining even a bigger part of all the ore than in the current system and end up making things worse for active miners in the process.
What mining needs is just new activities that reward active miners and are AFK unfriendlier. This way you can still AFK and gain some semi passive income while you do other things, but active miners can have a deeper system to play with, that also provides resources not available through normal mining. What exactly that activity should be or what extra resources they should get is somewhat irrelevant, but scannable comets with a mix of minerals/ice products/compounds/limited amounts of moon minerals are one possibility. Ofcourse you would get a better mix of those resources from comets that are found in more dangerous space, since that is how comets work.
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2011.04.03 19:47:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Celestis VanBuuren Sounds to me like youve used a few hulk toons...and you weren't fully afk. The effort that you probably used wouldn't of been worth the 171 mil after 9 hrs of eye bleeding mining.
LOL, my math is also off. I've mined with 2 hulks for so long I don't even think about it anymore. For me its not the isk anyway, its the quantity, eating everything in a system or having a few bil trit in the hanger makes me hard.
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Maverick2011
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Posted - 2011.04.03 20:08:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Maverick2011 on 03/04/2011 20:10:47 How many Destroyers or Frigates (T1) would be necessary to gank an average hulk?
There could be Corps to check afk miners. Like Police Mining Department. The corp would be made of frigates and other cheap ships roaming all game space for afk miners.
How to identify an AFK miner? Ask a simple question. No answer in 5 minutes, boom.
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2011.04.04 05:09:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Maverick2011 How many Destroyers or Frigates (T1) would be necessary to gank an average hulk?
1
Originally by: Maverick2011 There could be Corps to check afk miners. Like Police Mining Department. The corp would be made of frigates and other cheap ships roaming all game space for afk miners.
No
Originally by: Maverick2011 How to identify an AFK miner?
You cant
Originally by: Maverick2011 Ask a simple question. No answer in 5 minutes, boom.
Mummy told me never to talk to strangers, especially strangers with guns, lollies are ok.
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Elanor Vega
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Posted - 2011.04.04 21:08:00 -
[80]
The Mining profession. It's a waste of time.
well i must agree on that... but many ppl are stuck in it with many chars... :/
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.05 02:38:00 -
[81]
I don't think leaving boring, mindless gameplay in the game because some minority of people enjoy it is a good game design decision. CCP should strive to make all aspects of the game fun and interactive. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Sharon Anne
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.05 05:50:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Sharon Anne on 05/04/2011 05:50:31 Add a new mineral only to a new small low-sec roid that all Capital ships need for their jump engines to increase the jump by #%
Then sit back and watch the fun. popcorn ?
The general epidemic of rectal-cranial inversion |
Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.04.05 13:07:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet People whine and complain about botting but they don't know what they are in for if CCP actually rids the game of it.
Wait and see how loud the cries get when ships and modules triple or quadruple in price.
It. Will. Be. Epic.
I'd rather pay 3-4 times the price of ships/modules if it means we have a market that is supplied by people actually playing the game, not macros.
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Beki 250
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Posted - 2011.04.05 14:08:00 -
[84]
Mining isn't very profitable if you don't know what you are doing. After two years of watching other miners, I estimate that 75% fall into this category.
I have no problem affording the the things that I need, or even want, and it's only been a year since I lost a corp to an infiltrator.
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Leocadminone
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Posted - 2011.04.05 14:11:00 -
[85]
The biggest reason mineral pricing has dropped into the sink over the last year was the "Insurance revamp" removing the price support floor under mineral pricing (as a basket, I realise that Noc has gone UP in that time).
This was PREDICTED by a lot of us before that revamp went live, though I concede I expected mineral pricing to drop somewhat more than it did and a bit faster.
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Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.05 14:35:00 -
[86]
This is something everyone thinks and it has to be said: Mining is for the mindless idiots who are either too unintelligent or lazy to sink into the more complex aspects of the game. Fact.
The whole game mechanic suits botting perfectly well and it's a mystery to me nobody has realised that until now.
Nevermind PVP; All miners avoid the PVP aspects of EVE as much as possible, being the disgusting carebears that they are.
ĉIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Ĉ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.04.05 15:13:00 -
[87]
Lets see: I graduated from CalTech, I work as an aeronautical engineer, and I helped design and fly this.
But as I like mining, I must be a mindless idiot.
Why do I like mining? It lets me do other stuff while I watch the ISK roll in. Watch TV, talk to the wife, read, chat, etc.
That said, its rare that I mine for more than an hour or three. But with 2 hulks and an orca, and a manufacturing op running off the minerals, I make 20 to 30 mil an hour, so even short sessions are profitable.
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Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
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Posted - 2011.04.05 15:50:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aderata Nonkin This is something everyone thinks and it has to be said: Mining is for the mindless idiots who are either too unintelligent or lazy to sink into the more complex aspects of the game. Fact.
The whole game mechanic suits botting perfectly well and it's a mystery to me nobody has realised that until now.
Nevermind PVP; All miners avoid the PVP aspects of EVE as much as possible, being the disgusting carebears that they are.
I wholeheartedly agree, my fair lady. Let us embark on an epic quest to destroy any and all miners in all of outer space, so that their bots cease to contaminate our pure imperium and disturb the God Emperor!
SECURITY STATUS IS BUT A TRIVIAL DETAIL! __________________________________
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Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.05 17:24:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Sixtina KL SECURITY STATUS IS BUT A TRIVIAL DETAIL!
I'll put your suggestion on my todo list.
ĉIf you are not big enough to lose, then you are not big enough to win.Ĉ |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.05 19:55:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 05/04/2011 19:55:41 1: There is nothing wrong with making mining more enjoyable.
2: There is nothing wrong with leaving some aspects of mining as they are now, for the more casual players.
3: More people will not mine, even if it becomes more entertaining, because the isk/hour/effort ratio is so low compared to other professions.
4: The only way to make the isk/hour/effort ratio better (and make mining more attractive as a source of income) is to reduce the number of botting fleets currently flooding the market with cheap minerals.
5: Botting fleets of all types are a massive and widespread problem, this is easily verifiable by checking on any botting forum or by knowing what to look for as you fly through virtually any system in EVE.
6: Mining bots actually cause less economic carnage than other types of bots.
7: Bots of all types don't care if the money making activity they are doing is entertaining or not. They only care about how much isk they can make for the owner. Because they are tireless and require no effort from the operator, they do not care about the isk/hour/effort ratio that governs the rest of the EVE economy. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
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Deen Wispa
Gallente Roughneck Regulators
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Posted - 2011.04.05 20:03:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 28/03/2011 13:03:04
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/03/2011 11:31:07
Depends what you mean by "viable".
A maxed-out-everything mining op supported by Orca or deployed Rorqual can still yield almost 60 mil ISK per Hulk pilot (if you can find plenty of Ark, that is, if you're only going to go for Crok, then under 40 mil), then take out the cut of the booster, hauler, refinery and whatnot other taxes, tarrifs or interruptions, and you're still about on par with ratting, running anoms or whatnot other activities are there... you know, ballpark wise anyway. Plus, mining scales pretty well across multiple accounts, while the rest, not so much.
P.S. But yeah, you have a point, there's something out of whack there. However, I think the solution is to tweak what ores refine into rather than change ship build requirements.
mining ops in empire aren't really that profitable either. They do excellent gatherings for new and old people alike tho, so it's good for socialization.
Socialization. Nothing's creepier than guys who mine together, have a beer, and call that socialization. Get a life. -----------------
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Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
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Posted - 2011.04.05 20:08:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Deen Wispa Socialization. Nothing's creepier than guys who mine together, have a beer, and call that socialization. Get a life.
>implying EVE players have a life
lolin' __________________________________
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James Moroci
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Posted - 2011.04.05 21:13:00 -
[93]
how i do it.
i rat as i make 60 mill an hour NOT to mention the random officer,fraction and hauler drops. i make 50/60 mill in oure isk pr hour plus all the loot. i then refine the loot and sell what can be sold. i then buy mins much better as i can get mins AND new shiney ships very fast.. i do have mining 5 and all skills regarding mining at 5 but i would never go into a mining vesal as its simply not profitabl at all. and when it comes to it isk is what drives most of us.. u need isk to do what u really like.. mining and ratting is just a way to get it. and mining isent an option really! some said they make 150 mill mining 4 or 5 houres a day wow... in that period of time i make about 400 mill. if you include the loot. ccp defently should look into something like removing all mining from emperiel space. AND then make all belts scanable. not to mention make new ores or capital mining vesals. wich can suck a rock in it and process it.. and then make it so only one such vesal can be in a system a time. so it would be very dangorous o use etc... very slow... and it owuld take so much skills that botters wouldent consider using it.. like titan 5 in ore ship! drone region should change aswell. just make em drop less ore. and make em more lethal..
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.05 21:41:00 -
[94]
Dunno... don't really get why everything has to be calculated down to "isk per hour" before desiding whether something is waste of time or not.
Sometimes mining can be relaxing, sometimes missioning is something I want to do... some exploration now and then... building this and that... trading... chatting... having fun time...
...but perhaps fun factor shouldn't have any role in this game... ?
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Jaylaw Nadawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.05 22:18:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Dunno... don't really get why everything has to be calculated down to "isk per hour" before desiding whether something is waste of time or not.
Neither do I. The one who has the most isk wins Eve? "Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try ag |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.04.05 22:35:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Deen Wispa Socialization. Nothing's creepier than guys who mine together, have a beer, and call that socialization. Get a life.
Do you have better suggestions that don't involve international air travel and/or abandoning the spouse/children?
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Deen Wispa
Gallente Roughneck Regulators
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Posted - 2011.04.05 23:00:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Deen Wispa on 05/04/2011 23:03:22
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Deen Wispa Socialization. Nothing's creepier than guys who mine together, have a beer, and call that socialization. Get a life.
Do you have better suggestions that don't involve international air travel and/or abandoning the spouse/children?
Yeah. It's called going out and socializing with real people :)))
Btw- speaking as a recruiter and CEO, I stopped recruiting miners long ago because many of them were useless during wardecs. Not all. But many. Their skills weren't transferrable to combat, they wouldn't listen to intelligence reports and still mined afk in their hulks during war which resulted in bad efficiency on the KBs, and would generally just whine and leave during war.
Their value to the corp wallet was slim as well relative to mission runners. Having recruited many people and observed varying levels of intelligence, I honestly truly believe that the intelligence of a gamer who mined as a profession is lower than those of other professions such as PvPers, and PvErs. That's not an absolute by any means but merely a generalization based on my experience within the game.
I honestly could start an entire post about why CEOs of hisec empire corps shouldn't bother recruiting miners . Perhaps some other day
EDIT: You asked for a way to not abandon children/spouse so I guess going out is not an option -----------------
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.05 23:53:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Deen Wispa Their skills weren't transferrable to combat, they wouldn't listen to intelligence reports and still mined afk in their hulks during war which resulted in bad efficiency on the KBs, and would generally just whine and leave during war.
As an industrialist myself, killmail efficiency carries no weight at all with me. I can also understand why combat virgins might not want to participate either.
As a rookie combat pilot, the thing that made the most difference for me was a FC that didn't berate me for not knowing really basic things when I asked for clarification. Instead, he took the required time (all of 3 seconds) to explain them. Questions like: "What do you mean by `Top station'?", and "How do I tell if they are pirates?" when I was asked to be a scout are memorable moments for me.
Efficiency wasn't important. Participation and fun was. When fleets were called, the FC didn't care if you were in an Ibis.
A ship replacement program was nice too, even though in one case it was funded entirely out-of-pocket by one generous member.
The first page of an old military drill manual I memorized read: "Leadership is the art of getting somebody to do something you want done, because they want to do it."
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cyndrogen
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Posted - 2011.04.06 00:50:00 -
[99]
Edited by: cyndrogen on 06/04/2011 00:51:17 mining is a miserable experience if you are actually engaged in the game, however if you're doing other things then mining is semi passive income.
Corp mining is about as exciting as ZZZzzzzzz.....
If you want to drink beer and hang out go out and enjoy life with your friends and leave mining to the bots.
Mining is mind numbing!
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Darknilas
Chosen Frozen Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.06 01:07:00 -
[100]
Mining combined with manufacturing has been very profitable for me. As an older player(age wise)I mine during those early morning hours that I can't sleep. To me there is nothing more relaxing to me than to fire up the computers for a couple of hours roid therapy. I'm a multiple boxer with multiple accounts so I can keep busy when mining and true it will get boring if done too long. I am not afk miner(except when nature calls)and do not condone botting for any reason. My vote is to figure a way to make mining more interactive and more difficult to automate.
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Onkadis
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Posted - 2011.04.06 02:17:00 -
[101]
TL/DR: Prices are stable if you take the long-view. Game needs mineral sinks without creating isk sinks that affect PvPers. Miners/mission runners need more consumables to create more mineral demand. Up ammo min costs and greatly increase t1 crystal burnout rates. More low-sec manufacturing.
---
I pulled out some of my old notes of mineral prices. They're basically the same right now as they were in 2005/2006 back when there were far, far fewer hulks (and there weren't as many bots around, and few of them were in hulks making them far less influential), capitals were being built (but limited by players with the skills to fly them), and the drone regions hadn't been added yet. Shuttles were still NPC items and offered a cap on Trit prices and the old insurance rules were in place.
So, where's this dramatic price shift?
And do the common assumptions above about why the prices have dipped really hold given these prices are the same as in 2005/2006?
Anyways, I don't regard myself as a miner but I did mine all the minerals for all of my capital ships (and help out other brosefs do it). Mostly I made isk ratting in 0.0 when I needed to.
When I look at the mineral price state it seems obvious to me that it's a function of the relative lack of space combat compared to other times in Eve history. I would bet there's a lot less space violence going on, or at least a lower amount of minerals being blown up in the form of spaceboat hulls than is entering the system -- ie the ratio of minerals leaving the system is lower despite capacity to add minerals into the system.
Minerals follow roughly the same faucet-sink system as isk does. Minerals enter the economy "free" and are an unlimited resource -- restricted only by time and willingness to extract them. The only way they leave the system is if ships or ammo get blown up.
So, do you want to increase the amount of mineral faucets? As a first cut at it, it's pretty simple. Make ammo require more minerals. Have tech 1 mining and laser crystals burn out more frequently. Making Amarr buy ammo adds a good drain on the system.
If that gets implemented and doesn't cause enough changes in the system and you want to be more radical, have ships and modules wear out over time. Create and sell mineral-intensive refurbishing kits. I would NOT want to see ships and modules become more expensive. That's too penal on the pvp guys.
PvP folks are less affected by "wear and tear" because our stuff assplodes too frequently.
What the game needs is ongoing costs that affect people who otherwise are not affected by consumables -- I've had the same ratting ships for like three years and the same mission runners for longer.
Manufacturing failure is NOT a sink I would advocate for. In fact, I'd man the ramparts with the carebears in our hellokitty kestrals to keep that from happening.
You can also turn down the faucet a bit by making sure that loot drops are higher meta value and some faction stuff dropping (less people reprocessing mods into minerals). BPC drops are also a good idea (lewt that requires min consumption to realize). With lewt logging you can open up the spiggot a bit on good stuff from missions and other NPC events.
Incidentally, I would also want to see fewer factories in empire. More POS-based building would be good for the game (imo). More POS sinks are useful to keep ice mining moving for those who like AFK mining (work + ice mining is nice). POS-based building gets those empire builders running gates (yarr!). More ships going boom, more minerals need to be mined.
I dont think that will cause prices to get toooo CRAZY because I suspect there's plenty of surplus mining capability in the game and there are a lot of blokes like me who trained up mining skills on characters to provide passive income while pvping on other accounts. Prices will go up temporarily because careberries will not want to dip their toes into low-sec but...****'em. amirite?
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Beki 250
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Posted - 2011.04.06 06:06:00 -
[102]
I just realized that I'd rather mine than read this.
See you at the market.
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Celestis VanBuuren
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Posted - 2011.04.06 11:58:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Aderata Nonkin This is something everyone thinks and it has to be said: Mining is for the mindless idiots who are either too unintelligent or lazy to sink into the more complex aspects of the game. All miners avoid the PVP aspects of EVE as much as possible, being the disgusting carebears that they are.
Funny that. I own multiple capitals including a super and a pvp quite heavily with my main. You're one way view on miners is pathetic.
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Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire Cassiopeia.
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Posted - 2011.04.06 12:39:00 -
[104]
It becomes a waste of time because of numerous bots and overall low per hour income. Bots contribute most of all factors to low value of minerals.
Mining would be very fun if roids were hard to find, require scanning, WH-space and yielded a lot of ISK.
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.04.06 12:55:00 -
[105]
Originally by: QU0RRA
BTW, not everyone AFK mines. In particular multiboxers whom have those accounts to manage. I have never seen any multiboxers run cargoexpanding hulks AFK. The majority run in Hulk gangs with Orca support, hulks which are fitted for either max yeild (or max tank during Hulkageddon). Any that do, well we have Helicity to sort those out. These multiboxers, love them or loathe them bring in extra revenue to CCP WITHIN the TOS and EULA, well those multis who do it all manually and not via synergy etc.
what? pretty much everyone who runs an alt in the background while really playing does EXACTLY this. solo with a cargo expanded hulk. more cargo means less attention.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:35:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Arnakoz
Originally by: QU0RRA
BTW, not everyone AFK mines. In particular multiboxers whom have those accounts to manage. I have never seen any multiboxers run cargoexpanding hulks AFK. The majority run in Hulk gangs with Orca support, hulks which are fitted for either max yeild (or max tank during Hulkageddon). Any that do, well we have Helicity to sort those out. These multiboxers, love them or loathe them bring in extra revenue to CCP WITHIN the TOS and EULA, well those multis who do it all manually and not via synergy etc.
what? pretty much everyone who runs an alt in the background while really playing does EXACTLY this. solo with a cargo expanded hulk. more cargo means less attention.
I never got to a hulk with my alt, got bored of mining before training it. But I did run my Retriever with cargo rigs and expanders in lows...while main did combat.
But if everyone did the more lucrative things in Eve, what would the ships be built with? Obviously quite many must be mining.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:40:00 -
[107]
One has to wonder why CCP still includes a mining laser on the rookie ships. Is it some sort of joke?
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Minmatar Whack-A-Mole
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:40:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis on 06/04/2011 13:41:39 Ive mined in eve since I started playing and not with this toon over 7 years ago. Ive mined BS in moas way back when to sell on market long before the advent of hulks or barges of any type.
Mining has gone down the drain quite a bit imo. Not just from the bots. When I finished mining I was running 4 accounts. 3 hulks an an orca for support all in high sec. Most people, seeing as I dont have to work, always think Im a bot as I can play the same amount of time that other ppl work plus gaming time. I hated it. Ive mined in every area in Eve minus WHs simply because I havent gotten there yet.
I enjoyed it. I got to work out, read, watch movies or just chat to people and surf the web. I was almost always semi afk doing it. But I was always there to change everything. I hated that a bot could mine the same 8 or sometimes, lol 12 or more hours a day Id mine and not have to do a single thing. I got a lot of other **** done mind you in the meantime and you get to study a lot.
Make stuff BREAK!! Bots will never use drones. Ever. There is NO keystroke for deploying drones. You can set it up where you can clone the mouse clicks fair enough. Make stuff break only after most people that do play the game for fun will start to wear down. IE 1-2 hours game time. Your mining head bust. Deploy your repair drone to fix it. Fix time takes 30, 45 or maybe 60 secs. Your repair drone doesnt exist. But comes standard on all mining vessels. It doesnt come in the drone overview but a seperate one that you have to open through the UI of your ship. And randomly spawns in an area of your screen so you cannot clone mouse clicks in any way. You gotta BE there or eventually youll have no more lasers or whatever left.
You technically can do this for all weapon platforms based on time used. PvP engagements wouldnt last long enough for things to break. Anything done normally in the game wont be on long enough in a row to engage it and if engaged so what if your there. You can deploy your drone and fix it.
Mining like PI is also a great idea I already put forth here.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1483354
And if the cycles are long enough even a guy like me that can mine for hours and days on end if I want to without getting bored. Can still play the game but bots cant.
Scannable fields only please. I dont mind at all.
*********************************************** Where do we go from here? When theres no up and no down anymore...onward....eve
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.04.06 14:14:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Eternus8lux8lucis Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis on 06/04/2011 13:41:39 Ive mined in eve since I started playing and not with this toon over 7 years ago. Ive mined BS in moas way back when to sell on market long before the advent of hulks or barges of any type.
Mining has gone down the drain quite a bit imo. Not just from the bots. When I finished mining I was running 4 accounts. 3 hulks an an orca for support all in high sec. Most people, seeing as I dont have to work, always think Im a bot as I can play the same amount of time that other ppl work plus gaming time. I hated it. Ive mined in every area in Eve minus WHs simply because I havent gotten there yet.
I enjoyed it. I got to work out, read, watch movies or just chat to people and surf the web. I was almost always semi afk doing it. But I was always there to change everything. I hated that a bot could mine the same 8 or sometimes, lol 12 or more hours a day Id mine and not have to do a single thing. I got a lot of other **** done mind you in the meantime and you get to study a lot.
Make stuff BREAK!! Bots will never use drones. Ever. There is NO keystroke for deploying drones. You can set it up where you can clone the mouse clicks fair enough. Make stuff break only after most people that do play the game for fun will start to wear down. IE 1-2 hours game time. Your mining head bust. Deploy your repair drone to fix it. Fix time takes 30, 45 or maybe 60 secs. Your repair drone doesnt exist. But comes standard on all mining vessels. It doesnt come in the drone overview but a seperate one that you have to open through the UI of your ship. And randomly spawns in an area of your screen so you cannot clone mouse clicks in any way. You gotta BE there or eventually youll have no more lasers or whatever left.
You technically can do this for all weapon platforms based on time used. PvP engagements wouldnt last long enough for things to break. Anything done normally in the game wont be on long enough in a row to engage it and if engaged so what if your there. You can deploy your drone and fix it.
Mining like PI is also a great idea I already put forth here.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1483354
And if the cycles are long enough even a guy like me that can mine for hours and days on end if I want to without getting bored. Can still play the game but bots cant.
Scannable fields only please. I dont mind at all.
what? macro's control the mouse and keyboard. if a user can deploy the drones than so can the macro....
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Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.04.06 14:38:00 -
[110]
Well, I enjoy the relaxing aspect of mining, especially in a group where some degree of co-operation is required. It's a social activity in that regard. Solo mining-grind for many hours is boring but necessary at times, tho I'd rather be mining in a relaxed group than solo.
I'd be well happy if CCP manage at some point to make it more interactive, like a PI-type scanner and mining laser targeting linked there somehow, but as noted before a few cycles per-scan before depletion could still allow the relaxing aspect to exist while nerfing the botters. Some scan-slaving of lasers to an Orca scanner might be good too, perhaps.
I'd hate to see the semi-afk usefulness of mining get killed by a too-intensive mini-game, some balance of interests would need to be examined in any change made, 1 cycle-depletion would simply kill the afk-ability.
Much of the problem a miner/indy guy faces is due to other folks that sell T1 stuff at mineral price with little or no profit margin. A good example is freighter (if u have to buy a BPC set) if building for sale then most of the profit margin over and above the mineral worth goes to the seller of the blueprints, with very little margin for the miner/producer. I believe that is largely due to botter-mentality of shifting the large amount of minerals in one shot. Why else would someone pay most of their margins to blueprint makers?
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Minmatar Whack-A-Mole
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:11:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Arnakoz
what? macro's control the mouse and keyboard. if a user can deploy the drones than so can the macro....
No. Have it a two step process. And only when the pop up occurs. Just make the first step, having to click on an icon to get the overview popup to occur and then have it randomly come up somewhere on the screen so its never the same spot.
But macros cannot simply because its from a drop down menu on a right click on a location. So unless they can scroll through the list each time, certainly will be able to some day for sure. Its not possible to do.
So if you have actual proof Id love to hear it if not I really dont care much.
*********************************************** Where do we go from here? When theres no up and no down anymore...onward....eve
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Hot Vherokior
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Posted - 2011.04.06 17:49:00 -
[112]
It's sad everyone plays for ISK.
And ISK is used to pay next PLEX and keep playing for ISK ---> dude: WTF?
IMHO people should play for enjoy. i.e. Bobby likes mining, then take your Hulk and mine. Meanwhile Tommy loves ratting. Good, then go and kill rats.
Is it so hard to understand? this is a GAME, not a job. |
Holdout
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Posted - 2011.04.06 18:24:00 -
[113]
If you don't like mining, don't do it.
If you do like mining, do it.
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Onkadis
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Posted - 2011.04.06 18:25:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Hot Vherokior It's sad everyone plays for ISK.
And ISK is used to pay next PLEX and keep playing for ISK ---> dude: WTF?
IMHO people should play for enjoy. i.e. Bobby likes mining, then take your Hulk and mine. Meanwhile Tommy loves ratting. Good, then go and kill rats.
Is it so hard to understand? this is a GAME, not a job.
You understand that most MMOs have a grind. The purpose of the grind is to use time wasting as a content provider since MMOs can't provide unlimited content.
Most games use the grind as a way of skilling-up your player to do more uber things in game. CCP uses money for the grind to buy more toys to use to kill people with, content as emergent player activity, namely through PvP.
So, yeah, your silly moralizing on game verses job is awesome, but it's completely naive about how MMOs work.
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