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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.03.31 19:47:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 31/03/2011 19:49:54
Originally by: Hexxx , the equity the company gains from that will be directed towards two things. The first is an insurance reserve fund (basically it's still company equity, but earmarked to help pay for potential liabilities), the second will be to pay down debts.
Now, if all we do is break even then we are going to take on a very large amount of potential liabilities, I'd have to question the long term viability of the project. The only mitigation would be more data which would help us quantify our risk, or to be more specific, the average probability of a claim on a type of policy.
Start small, grow slow, and get data. That's the basic plan, if we need to tap public financing we may, but it's really too early to say for sure until we get more data.
Thanks for your reply - I'll make this my last post as I don't want to become boring. First, I just want to say that the project is undoubtedly an interesting one - I can see why you're attracted to it and I of course harbor no personal ill-will against you. Personally, I hope you pull it off - although I foresee major difficulties I just hope you will take those responsibilities onto your own shoulders and not expose your investors to excessive risk.
Originally by: Hexxx If the model works, and we turn a profit
Just want to raise a warning on this statement - just because you make a profit, doesn't mean that your model is working. You may or may not already know that, but you should make far more cautious statements about your model and its success so as to convey an understanding of the risks involved.
For example, you could make a profit for ten months consistently, but this may only be a sign that you are building a bigger and bigger time-bomb for yourselves by building up liabilities. This is a particular danger that, aside from scamming, this operation is going to be particularly vulnerable to. In some respects you are entering a minefield and turning a profit may conceal the dangers from the risks you're exposed to in your underwriting and finance.
Finally, I don't think Sencnes has demonstrated the personal credibility to act as an insurance underwriter. People change of course, but as things currently stand you should protect your investors/policy-holders by moving your underwriting funds to a trusted third-party such as Chribba.
Edit: typo
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2011.03.31 20:19:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal Finally, I don't think Sencnes has demonstrated the personal credibility to act as an insurance underwriter. People change of course, but as things currently stand you should protect your investors/policy-holders by moving your underwriting funds to a trusted third-party such as Chribba.
Apart from any funds that are being injected by people purchasing insurance policies, the "underwriter" funds are mine. I'm providing my own ISK. Unless I intend to scam myself there is no need to move my ISK to Chribba. The funds being deposited are going into the in-game corporation, which I am not a part of yet. Hexxx can certainly manage the corp and it's funds for as long as he likes without me having access.
In order to protect Hexxx/EI from my running off with my own ISK leaving him high and dry, destroying the friendship we have, I will gladly deposit 2B into Chribba to have available on Hexxx's request. But I'm sure Chribba will get a real laugh out of it
Amarr for Life |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2011.04.01 09:46:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Hexxx
You really have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?
Your lack of situational awareness is disturbing, the fact that you've spent 2 years coding it is amusing.
Black Sun Empire |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 10:44:00 -
[94]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Originally by: Hexxx
You really have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?
Your lack of situational awareness is disturbing, the fact that you've spent 2 years coding it is amusing.
Ah, excellent point. =)
The designs for Insurance came well before any code was written (about 2 and a half years ago), but I did indeed start coding roughly 2 years ago. Initially I was using ASP.NET WebForms, the same tech I used to create EBANK...but then someone turned me on to MVC and suddenly I realized that it was much better suited to what I was doing. I threw away all the WebForm code and decided to start over, but there was one problem.
I didn't know how to program within the MVC pattern, I'd never even heard of Object Relational Model or LINQ, and didn't have the foggiest what Dependency Injection/Inversion of Control was. So I taught myself. That took about a year before I was proficient enough to really get things how I wanted them...then I started over again, because the initial MVC code I had written was so poorly designed thanks to my lack of understanding.
The code I have running today I started roughly 6 months ago, but I've been coding for 2 years and designing for longer than that.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.01 11:22:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Originally by: Hexxx
You really have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?
Your lack of situational awareness is disturbing, the fact that you've spent 2 years coding it is amusing.
Ah, excellent point. =)
The designs for Insurance came well before any code was written (about 2 and a half years ago), but I did indeed start coding roughly 2 years ago. Initially I was using ASP.NET WebForms, the same tech I used to create EBANK...but then someone turned me on to MVC and suddenly I realized that it was much better suited to what I was doing. I threw away all the WebForm code and decided to start over, but there was one problem.
I didn't know how to program within the MVC pattern, I'd never even heard of Object Relational Model or LINQ, and didn't have the foggiest what Dependency Injection/Inversion of Control was. So I taught myself. That took about a year before I was proficient enough to really get things how I wanted them...then I started over again, because the initial MVC code I had written was so poorly designed thanks to my lack of understanding.
The code I have running today I started roughly 6 months ago, but I've been coding for 2 years and designing for longer than that.
You could have checked something MVC decent and in free PHP like i.e. Yii and by this time you'd be done and with a way faster implementation than whatever you are using now.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 12:11:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
You could have checked something MVC decent and in free PHP like i.e. Yii and by this time you'd be done and with a way faster implementation than whatever you are using now.
Different strokes for different folks, I turned my back on PHP years ago (about 7 years ago). I used to develop with it but it was clunky and obtuse. I'm sure it's better now then it was, but as a consequence I have significant time invested in C# and .NET and unless there's a massive leap forward (there's not, yet) I'll be sticking with the MS technologies.
That said, I'm happy to advise people on how I designed everything. Logically you could do the same thing in Yii and if it's faster, maybe they could beat me to market.
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Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.04.01 14:03:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
How much will you be paying for capital?
I imagine Sencnes got his ISK through station trading. He's good at it.
How is a high cost of capital an argument in your favor?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 14:17:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 01/04/2011 14:09:11
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
How much will you be paying for capital?
I imagine Sencnes got his ISK through station trading. He's good at it.
How is a high cost of capital an argument in your favor?
edit: I don't see why people get so worked up about this. Just let Hexxx do his thing, it won't hurt you or the "health" of MD either way. Chances are this business will never launch and if it does it will probably find very little customers (due to trust issues and a huge marketing burden). That being said I would never touch a business SencneS was involved in during the planning stage.
High cost of capital? This is cash that Sencnes already has. Not sure what you mean?
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Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.04.01 14:19:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 01/04/2011 14:26:18
Originally by: Hexxx High cost of capital? This is cash that Sencnes already has. Not sure what you mean?
oh... money you have earned yourself is free, I see.
If she is good at trading using money for anything but trading carries a high opportunity cost.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.01 14:27:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Hexxx High cost of capital? This is cash that Sencnes already has. Not sure what you mean?
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein oh... money you have earned yourself is free, I see.
Two options: - Put your foot in your mouth and simply trying to cover that up or....
- Arguing what is probably a non-applicable point.
Start up costs for any business or project inherently comes with opportunity losses at the risk (or chance) of greater opportunity gains. So, thus, ergo, your point is? Yup, relevant only to you.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 14:29:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein edit: I don't see why people get so worked up about this. Just let Hexxx do his thing, it won't hurt you or the "health" of MD either way.
I couldn't care less about the business. I just want the people who don't know the whole EBank story to have all the information before they consider putting their time, energy, and reputation on the line with these jokers.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.04.01 14:49:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Shar Tegral So, thus, ergo, your point is?
Dont invest in ANYTHING that has been touched by those two, it will end like Ebank.
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flakeys
The Great cornholio's
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:04:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar I just want the people who don't know the whole EBank story ...
This species exists?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:25:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein edit: I don't see why people get so worked up about this. Just let Hexxx do his thing, it won't hurt you or the "health" of MD either way.
I couldn't care less about the business. I just want the people who don't know the whole EBank story to have all the information before they consider putting their time, energy, and reputation on the line with these jokers.
I don't think there's a single person who knows the whole story...
Investor Relation | IPO Doc |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:26:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 01/04/2011 14:26:18
Originally by: Hexxx High cost of capital? This is cash that Sencnes already has. Not sure what you mean?
oh... money you have earned yourself is free, I see.
If she is good at trading using money for anything but trading carries a high opportunity cost.
Yes it does, but it's there and ready to use. What's the problem?
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:35:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Brock Nelson I don't think there's a single person who knows the whole story...
Fair enough. Poor wording on my part. I just want people to have available to them what I consider to be the most accurate and relevant narrative of the events.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:45:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
Originally by: Brock Nelson I don't think there's a single person who knows the whole story...
Fair enough. Poor wording on my part. I just want people to have available to them what I consider to be the most accurate and relevant narrative of the events.
That's why I included the resignation thread in the OP.
Touching on what you said earlier though, your involvement in the thread seems intellectually dishonest. You weren't interested in the business plan but eluded that you were and that it would fail because of my lack of self-reflection, nevermind the actual details of the plan...
You just wanted to talk about EBANK though.
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:51:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Hexxx That's why I included the resignation thread in the OP
Yes, the resignation thread which in no way acknowledges the ultimate sources of failure, sources which are extremely relevant to the state of this project for those considering joining.
Originally by: Hexxx Touching on what you said earlier though, your involvement in the thread seems intellectually dishonest. You weren't interested in the business plan but eluded that you were and that it would fail because of my lack of self-reflection, nevermind the actual details of the plan...
You just wanted to talk about EBANK though.
I won't repeat myself for the 12th time. If you don't at least understand what I'm saying by now, regardless of whether you agree or not, then you never will.
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Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.04.01 15:56:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
I won't repeat myself for the 12th time.
You probably will. You'll need your next drama hit in a few hours time.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 16:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Elise DarkStar
Originally by: Hexxx That's why I included the resignation thread in the OP
Yes, the resignation thread which in no way acknowledges the ultimate sources of failure, sources which are extremely relevant to the state of this project for those considering joining.
Originally by: Hexxx Touching on what you said earlier though, your involvement in the thread seems intellectually dishonest. You weren't interested in the business plan but eluded that you were and that it would fail because of my lack of self-reflection, nevermind the actual details of the plan...
You just wanted to talk about EBANK though.
I won't repeat myself for the 12th time. If you don't at least understand what I'm saying by now, regardless of whether you agree or not, then you never will.
You really hate actually reading through the threads that I link don't you?
The resignation thread addressed my failure, my responsibility, my forfeit of all my assets, the failure to do proper accounting, the loan default failures, Ricdic running off with the ISK and a number of other comments on even more things that went wrong. I could fill another page with all the other threads filled with even more criticism, conspiracy theories, all kinds of things....a simple EVE-Search will grant even the most casual homework exercise with hundreds of threads discussing all this and more.
You don't like repeating yourself? Well kid, neither do I.
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Elise DarkStar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 16:15:00 -
[111]
I will continue to post responses to comments or questions from the general public which I believe are in whole or part directed at me.
If by some miracle Hexxx or Sencnes, or one of their circle-jerk lackeys, can string together a relevant response to my argument that I feel it would be productive to, in turn, respond to, then I will do so. Nothing said so far qualifies, and I regret responding the one time I already have.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2011.04.01 20:25:00 -
[112]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 01/04/2011 20:26:43
Originally by: Hexxx
Yes it does, but it's there and ready to use. What's the problem?
I know you're trying hard to clean your reputation but, honestly, couldn't you find something more glamorous and less liable to cause a huge loss to the community in case your theories are proven to be incorrect?
Black Sun Empire |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.01 20:52:00 -
[113]
Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 01/04/2011 20:26:43
Originally by: Hexxx
Yes it does, but it's there and ready to use. What's the problem?
I know you're trying hard to clean your reputation but, honestly, couldn't you find something more glamorous and less liable to cause a huge loss to the community in case your theories are proven to be incorrect?
Yes, but those other projects I'd like to do I'd prefer to do after this gets rolling, assuming the theories work.
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Emywn Vanya
Caldari The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.04.02 06:52:00 -
[114]
Interesting but no time right now :~
Not sure why everyone jumping on Hexxx about e-fail, he was one of the few people I didn't blame the mess on. His ideas are good if anyone bothers to read the threads in the OP and just cause they'r three years old doesn't mean they suck..
----------------------- The answer is 42 |
Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2011.04.02 08:59:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Emywn Vanya Interesting but no time right now :~
Not sure why everyone jumping on Hexxx about e-fail, he was one of the few people I didn't blame the mess on. His ideas are good if anyone bothers to read the threads in the OP and just cause they'r three years old doesn't mean they suck..
This is such a provocative post........
However I've decided the horse is well and truly dead and I'm not going to flog it anymore.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.04.02 12:34:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Julius Rigel If that is true, why in the world am I having so much trouble finding participants and staff for my events? Am I paying too little? Are my avant-garde philosophies simply too far in front? Am I driving my regiment into the proverbial enemy with no artillery support?
The reason that you're having a hard time finding people willing to participate and operate your frigate races is that they are so intensely, mind-numbingly boring
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.02 15:10:00 -
[117]
Just wanted to say thanks to the people that expressed interest via the thread and evemail. I think we have enough people at this point.
I'll be sending out evemails to people tomorrow night, I think we've got some specific roles in mind for some while other will probably be asked to help test and see what they might be interested in doing.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.04.02 16:14:00 -
[118]
Well, if nothing else this thread has taught me the meaning of the Internet meme: "No, you."
Thanks
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Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
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Posted - 2011.04.02 21:00:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: Julius Rigel If that is true, why in the world am I having so much trouble finding participants and staff for my events? Am I paying too little? Are my avant-garde philosophies simply too far in front? Am I driving my regiment into the proverbial enemy with no artillery support?
The reason that you're having a hard time finding people willing to participate and operate your frigate races is that they are so intensely, mind-numbingly boring
Awww, that's cute, you're trolling because you came in last again.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.03 06:41:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: Julius Rigel If that is true, why in the world am I having so much trouble finding participants and staff for my events? Am I paying too little? Are my avant-garde philosophies simply too far in front? Am I driving my regiment into the proverbial enemy with no artillery support?
The reason that you're having a hard time finding people willing to participate and operate your frigate races is that they are so intensely, mind-numbingly boring
Awww, that's cute, you're trolling because you came in last again.
I have an idea for races: organize one in the middle of an ice / roids field. The participants must follow a path you made with cans that goes in between of the roids. The less skilled will bump in the roids and make people lol.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
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