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Jestrick
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jestrick on 31/03/2011 01:17:00 So I'm a trader, that's how I make my isk, but I am also a hobby courier. I love running contracts in my blockade runner, but I've noticed that large volume runs can pay a lot more. So I've trained for a Charon.
My question is, how easy are they to suicide gank? I'll only be taking it into High Sec, but still, they are expensive so I would like to know of the risks before I buy one to add to my courier arsenal.
Thoughts and opinions would be great! Thanks!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 31/03/2011 01:26:34
Depends what system sec level you'd move through. Ballpark figure, call it 10-20 cheapo gank battleships to ensure a guaranteed kill, but it could probably be done with 5-10 more expensively fit ones if you time everything just right.
As long as you transport around 2-3 bil in cargo you should be mostly fine (unless somebody has a grudge on you). Really start worrying over 6 bil or thereabouts. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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sableye
principle of motion
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:20:00 -
[3]
not that easy anymore, its got 35k between shields and armour and 150k structure (with my skills anyway) someone earlier said it takes 6-7 battleships to kill you but I would depend sons ecurity status and its going to depend on value of what you carry if you assume its got 50/50 chance of cargo loss then you have to be carrying something probbaly 1.5 bil woth to make it worth it.
----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!! |
mkmin
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:22:00 -
[4]
Edited by: mkmin on 31/03/2011 01:23:18 Don't load it full of PLEXes and +5's and Halos, and you should be fine. Yes that's an exaggeration (that would be billions of items worth trillions of isk) but still. A freighter suicide gank requires a little bit of planning to make sure there are enough attackers, and that the potential for drops will be worth the number of losses it will take. You can reduce your exposure by having a web alt/corpie handy to get you away from the gate before you can get too much attention, and don't autopilot.
Edit: and always have insta-undock bookmarks on any station you plan to dock at.
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Good Lkn
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:39:00 -
[5]
It's ******ed easy to gank a freighter. I run 3 almost non stop when I am home every day and I lose on avg 2 a year to suicides. One year I lost 5.
You can literally take your suicide squad (4-6 gank fit insured bs's) and hit a freighter with an almost guaranteed kill. They usually take your freighter out before concord even responds. They just follow the freighter through a gate, have one of the bs's just fly right into the freighters path so it cant align and then they have virtually all the time in the world to setup their attack.
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HighwayMan DhD
Highwaymen
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:40:00 -
[6]
you cant gank it with 10 pilots in max dps BS with t2 drones/fits in a 0.5 with max skills and max implants. Gonna need a a good few more than that. Concord responce time is 13 secs. (this used to be 27 secs a few years ago, when frieghters didnt drop loot, it was changed shortly after they started dropping loot)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: HighwayMan DhD Concord responce time is 13 secs. (this used to be 27 secs a few years ago)
I thought it still can happen to get close to 30 seconds in 0.5 sometimes ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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HighwayMan DhD
Highwaymen
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Posted - 2011.03.31 01:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: HighwayMan DhD Concord responce time is 13 secs. (this used to be 27 secs a few years ago)
I thought it still can happen to get close to 30 seconds in 0.5 sometimes ?
Not for a few years. your lucky if you get 13secs
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.31 02:05:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 31/03/2011 02:06:58
I knew it was reduced, but I was under the impression it was more like from 30-60 seconds down to 15-30 seconds depending on system sec... a mere 13 sec in 0.5 sounds ludicrously low. If that is indeed true then I can only conclude that "Good Lkn" is lying through his teeth. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.03.31 02:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 31/03/2011 02:35:45 Confirming that CONCORD response time in a 0.5 system is at most 15 seconds, in my experience suicide ganking Orcas during Hulkageddon
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.31 02:40:00 -
[11]
And yet, people still have the audacity to complain after becoming victims of suicide ganks ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.03.31 02:54:00 -
[12]
Confirming that it is about 14 seconds in Niarja. Theoritically about 7-8 well fit ravens could do one over in ideal circumstances, although you will often want to bring more for certainty and lower skills. Raven with t2 Torps + Rage torps, 5x t2 BCUs, 2x t1/named 720mm artillery, and 3x garde I. Each raven will do about 20,000+ effective hitpoints of damage (initial torp volley, then 2x additional volleys for about 18,000 damage depending on skills, intial and a second volley from the 720mm for about 1,400 damage, then about 2000-2500 damage from the Garde Is.
This gives you a rough ballpark of 20,000+ damage with perfect skills, and with reasonable skills you should still hit above the 20,000 mark. A maxed out Charon (Freighter 5 and perfect HP skills, which doesn't happen all that frequently, although most would assume just to be sure) gives a Charon just over 180,000 hitpoints. So 10 Ravens would be able to take one down in ideal circumstances. Ravens cost about 45mil after insurance and fitting. So the attackers lose 450mil in best cases, for a loot split between 10 people.
Remember that organizing and getting 10 people ready in such fits is a time sink and requires organization, and also that the attackers will have to raise their security status as well eventually, if they wish to remain doing so. Also, The ship destruction mechanics mean that on average 50% of loot is lost to ship destruction.
Lets assume that 300-400mil pp is a good payout for someone, I solo suicide gank a lot and you can get a 100m profit quite easily, so need to get payment for being part of a group and organising such event. So each attacker will probably want to aim for 350m-450m pp to cover ship loss and payout.
Because of this, most people will only ever aim for 6b as a minimum, maybe they'll go lower if they don't find anything, but doubtful. Also, the majority of suicide team gank squads have already got pre-intel on freighter targets and often stalk frequent high value freighters rather than just chilling on a gate waiting for the random freighter with too much cargo.
Honestly, if you stick to below 5b you will be fine, unless you get ganked for revenge/boredom or by people who can't do maths properly, but its highly unlikely. ---
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.03.31 02:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T And yet, people still have the audacity to complain after becoming victims of suicide ganks ?
Wait, what? People...complain....when things don't go their way?
Pics or it didn't happen, I refuse to believe the upstanding citizens of New Eden would stoop to such levels
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.31 03:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: Akita T And yet, people still have the audacity to complain after becoming victims of suicide ganks ?
Wait, what? People...complain....when things don't go their way? Pics or it didn't happen, I refuse to believe the upstanding citizens of New Eden would stoop to such levels
Oh, don't get me wrong, that's totally expected... I was just surprised to see that I was actually being TOO MILD whenever I laughed at some random sod that came to the forums crying about his destroyed ship full of goodies. I shall be even more caustic in the future.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.03.31 03:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T I shall be even more caustic in the future.
Splendid
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.03.31 03:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Suitonia snip
welp you hit that one outta the park
and yea, concord has been way boosted, but hey if their response time was 30sec+ that would make ganking almost too easy, hell you fit a faction mod to your ship and someone would probably gank you.
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Jonathon Silence
Thorny Rose Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.03.31 03:46:00 -
[17]
8 Ravens with T2 fittings can do it, but 10 -12 with a more moderate (read cheap) fit is more likely.
If you really need to move your stuff there are a couple of tricks that help protect you in these circustances.
Courier Contracts... Place all your valuable items in a courier contract to another character and transport the courier package inside a Freight container.
Also have 100 small stacks of 'junk' (like cheap ammo) in your hold. The Cargo scanner only returns 100 items in the list, if you flood it with junk items it makes your good items harder to see, giving you more time as teh ganker needs more time to figure out if you are a viable target.
If you also have an alt with Command ship skills put him in a fleet (best is an Amarrian or Caldari command with the remote boosts to shield/armour hardening, nothing like an extra 10% shield/Armour hardness that the gankers did not count on) run the Gang assist modules like the "Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence" or "Seige Warfare Link - Shjeld Harmonizing".
For tough gates you can pre-summon Concord (last I heard this was still allowable and still worked, have not tried it recently so not 100% sure). Take your alt in a shuttle to the needed gate, gank him in an expendable ship so that Concord turns up. They used to stay on the gate for a couple of hours and respond almost instantainuously to an act of agression.
There are a couple of other techniques, but need to Check with CCP Explorer before I discuss those. :) NDA and stuff ...
I have been shipping stuff in freighters for many years, while ganking is possible, a bit of forethought and planning reduces the risk 'Significantly'. Jonathon Silence
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1472967 Vote for Me |
Jestrick
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Posted - 2011.03.31 03:50:00 -
[18]
And just to clarify, I'm only planning on running in high sec.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.31 03:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jestrick And just to clarify, I'm only planning on running in high sec.
And so far most of the answers have assumed so. Though TBH, thats why I bought a Rhea. Not only is it slightly more gank resistant, you can jump past Niarja or Uedema. Then again alot of my shipments end up in low/null sec so I might be heavily biased and further more why do i even need a sig? |
syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.03.31 05:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jonathon Silence For tough gates you can pre-summon Concord (last I heard this was still allowable and still worked, have not tried it recently so not 100% sure).
A new Concord Spawn is created on each gank, so this is a waste of time. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.03.31 07:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T And yet, people still have the audacity to complain after becoming victims of suicide ganks ?
No tank no sympathy.
There's no such thing as overkill, only degrees of effectiveness. |
FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
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Posted - 2011.03.31 08:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 31/03/2011 02:06:58
I knew it was reduced, but I was under the impression it was more like from 30-60 seconds down to 15-30 seconds depending on system sec... a mere 13 sec in 0.5 sounds ludicrously low. If that is indeed true then I can only conclude that "Good Lkn" is lying through his teeth.
That is why 8-turret BS with 1400 artillery is suiciding FOTM now Sure, you only get one shot, but with arty it's quite a lot of damage Also, whoever says it is not doable with 10 BS is wrong, it sometimes is as low as 8(but that seems to be the limit unless freighter is damaged already)
Originally by: CCP Manifest Imploding servers are not a part of our business model.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.31 09:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 31/03/2011 02:06:58
I knew it was reduced, but I was under the impression it was more like from 30-60 seconds down to 15-30 seconds depending on system sec... a mere 13 sec in 0.5 sounds ludicrously low. If that is indeed true then I can only conclude that "Good Lkn" is lying through his teeth.
That is why 8-turret BS with 1400 artillery is suiciding FOTM now Sure, you only get one shot, but with arty it's quite a lot of damage Also, whoever says it is not doable with 10 BS is wrong, it sometimes is as low as 8(but that seems to be the limit unless freighter is damaged already)
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd really love to see a legit killmail from Tranq to show that just 8 or even 10 Pests can suicide a Freighter.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.31 09:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aiwha
Originally by: Akita T And yet, people still have the audacity to complain after becoming victims of suicide ganks ?
No tank no sympathy.
Disclaimer : honour tanks do not qualify _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
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Posted - 2011.03.31 09:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 31/03/2011 02:06:58
I knew it was reduced, but I was under the impression it was more like from 30-60 seconds down to 15-30 seconds depending on system sec... a mere 13 sec in 0.5 sounds ludicrously low. If that is indeed true then I can only conclude that "Good Lkn" is lying through his teeth.
That is why 8-turret BS with 1400 artillery is suiciding FOTM now Sure, you only get one shot, but with arty it's quite a lot of damage Also, whoever says it is not doable with 10 BS is wrong, it sometimes is as low as 8(but that seems to be the limit unless freighter is damaged already)
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd really love to see a legit killmail from Tranq to show that just 8 or even 10 Pests can suicide a Freighter.
Here http://killboard.gypsyband.ru/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=110953 http://killboard.gypsyband.ru/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=110121 9 here http://killboard.gypsyband.ru/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=109103 |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.31 21:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: FlameGlow
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 31/03/2011 02:06:58
I knew it was reduced, but I was under the impression it was more like from 30-60 seconds down to 15-30 seconds depending on system sec... a mere 13 sec in 0.5 sounds ludicrously low. If that is indeed true then I can only conclude that "Good Lkn" is lying through his teeth.
That is why 8-turret BS with 1400 artillery is suiciding FOTM now Sure, you only get one shot, but with arty it's quite a lot of damage Also, whoever says it is not doable with 10 BS is wrong, it sometimes is as low as 8(but that seems to be the limit unless freighter is damaged already)
I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd really love to see a legit killmail from Tranq to show that just 8 or even 10 Pests can suicide a Freighter.
Here http://killboard.gypsyband.ru/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=110953 http://killboard.gypsyband.ru/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=110121 9 here http://killboard.gypsyband.ru/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=109103
Awsome. Keep it up!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.31 23:25:00 -
[27]
Whenever I look at a hisec freighter killmail, I wonder how the pilot didn't expect to be ganked.
When I'm carrying 2b ISK or more I use an out-of-corp scout, and I never AFK with cargo. None of my Charons have ever been attacked in hisec.
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Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.04.01 01:24:00 -
[28]
As other people said don't carry 10 bajillion worth of stuff and you should be fine. Avoid autopilot also because that gives them too much time to pull an attack together. And if you ever find yourself with 10+ bill worth of loot in the cargo and a suspicious amount of battleships on the grid don't forget you can always log off to force warp (a lot of people forget this when they see hull damage and start panicking).
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation
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Posted - 2011.04.01 03:12:00 -
[29]
Seriously, don't carry more than 4B or so worth of cargo and don't afk. I suicide occasionally and let me tell you, most suicide-gankers aren't interested in people like you. They are interested in the auto-piloting idiots with 10B in cargo. (of which there are many) If you take reasonable precautions you decrease the already small chance of being ganked tenfold.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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