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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
67
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Posted - 2012.08.29 23:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
First off i have read all these a.) Go read the threads asking for Arenas, so you can get an understanding of some of the issues they have: Deadspace Nullsec ArenasConsensual PvP Arenas Virtual Arenas Tourney Arenas Controlled Arenas Lowsec Arenas Dueling Arenas Ship Restricted Combat Zones Dueling Contracts PvP Arenas Colosseums Simulated PvP PvP Simulator Null and Lowsec Arenas Duel Mode The Thunderdome
The idea is to make a gate from the 4 trade hubs (amarr, jita, dodixie, rens) to a system once inside this system THERE IS NO WAY OUT, you will die there. You can bring in whatever fit you want faction, officer, deadspace whatever but you will lose it. There will be no stations, no moons, no planets just a few (maybe 4-6) celestial objects to warp to, thus finding fights. it will be 0.0 sec status, but it should not allow the anchoring of anything. You will be sent to a random location upon jumping into the system, then can warp to any celestial you want. Should there be local? first instinct says yes, but for the fun of pvp i vote NO.
Should/Could it be a Binary System that generates a different effect every downtime???
How is this good for PvP??? It gives solo pvpers a chance at pvp without jumping into a bubble camp 1 jump into null Why is this needed?? It is not Is instanced arena's the only real solution to whatever problem it is correcting?? Where will the fights happen? in a back hole system with no way out How will warp ins occur? standard warpins to any object Why does ranking mean anything (it doesn't!!)?? Only will to faction warfare How do you deal with fleet boosters & bonuses? They will die also, with no means of escape How do you enforce fitting limitations (number of asb's, faction/officer mods)? you can bring whatever you are willing to lose Why does it have a time limit? No set time limit, live as long as you can Why are there arena boundaries? NA What prevents people from just warping off? they could only warp to another celestial What is the point of it?????????????and why does it belong in eve? FUN, PvP without bubble camps, capital escelation, and hot drops
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Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
77
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Posted - 2012.08.29 23:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
All that you listed works great, except you lost one important point... What will people choose between easy to get arena/battleground fights, or camping some gate for hours?
That would kill open world PVP.
However, if arenas gave no reward whatsoever and would be limited to maybe 5v5 or even 10v10, it might be acceptable. Fight over nullsec or WH resources would continue. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
67
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Posted - 2012.08.29 23:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gate camping can be looted this cannot, on a gate camp you could pop a 3 bill isk ship and grab 1bill in loot |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
33
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
1 this would be bad for open world pvp
2. the fact that you think this will be better for solo pvpers is very amusing. **** would be blobby as all hell. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
67
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I never said it would be better, I said it would give them a chance. I guess I don't understand what you mean by "open" pvp |
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
151
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would prefer a virtual reality device in station that copies your owned vessel of choosing, say it cost a million to use it. This way I can try different fits, get some quick pvp and see ships I would normally not see pvp. Sounds fun to me.
Would open world pvp suffer?some. Blobs would still blob for assets, but is gate camping really so fun? if some of those peeps choose not to do that anymore, maybe it was not that great to begin with, sounds as exciting and challenging as mining to me.
Really maybe more would actually go low sec as they would at least have some experience on how to fight properly. Experience breeds cockiness.
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
67
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jax Bederen wrote:I would prefer a virtual reality device in station that copies your owned vessel of choosing, say it cost a million to use it. This way I can try different fits, get some quick pvp and see ships I would normally not see pvp. Sounds fun to me.
Would open world pvp suffer?some. Blobs would still blob for assets, but is gate camping really so fun? if some of those peeps choose not to do that anymore, maybe it was not that great to begin with, sounds as exciting and challenging as mining to me.
Really maybe more would actually go low sec as they would at least have some experience on how to fight properly. Experience breeds cockiness.
Try Sisi I for cheap pvp, they added faction modules and ships over the summer, there is also 2 combat systems there and it will only cost you around 100k for each complete ship you try out. |
mxzf
Blackened Skies
2072
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
So ... 20 minutes after this went live an alliance would have a 50 man fleet inside said system owning anyone and everyone who showed up.
How does this promote small gang/solo PvP again?
PvP arenas in general are just a bad idea. This one is less bad than many others, but it's still a bad idea. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
68
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
They will run out of charges eventually, or get bored like some do and blow each other up, there is no docking so when you log you could login in the middle of someone else's fight. |
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
151
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Jax Bederen wrote:I would prefer a virtual reality device in station that copies your owned vessel of choosing, say it cost a million to use it. This way I can try different fits, get some quick pvp and see ships I would normally not see pvp. Sounds fun to me.
Would open world pvp suffer?some. Blobs would still blob for assets, but is gate camping really so fun? if some of those peeps choose not to do that anymore, maybe it was not that great to begin with, sounds as exciting and challenging as mining to me.
Really maybe more would actually go low sec as they would at least have some experience on how to fight properly. Experience breeds cockiness.
Try Sisi I for cheap pvp, they added faction modules and ships over the summer, there is also 2 combat systems there and it will only cost you around 100k for each complete ship you try out.
Thanks for the suggestion. Is it easier to find some solo fights out there rather then the 10 vs 1?
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
68
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Blobs will always happen, it is the eve works. There are generally less people on Sisi though |
mxzf
Blackened Skies
2073
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:They will run out of charges eventually, or get bored like some do and blow each other up, there is no docking so when you log you could login in the middle of someone else's fight.
If an alliance can organize a large fleet in said system, it's really not too far a stretch for them to jump in a hauler full of ammo -_-
And it's statistically impossible to log off from a safespot and accidentally log on into someone else's fight. Space is REALLY big. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
69
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Posted - 2012.08.30 00:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Think of it this way also, if the blobs are in this "arena" then there are not on some gate, giving small gangs pvp another place |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
34
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Posted - 2012.08.30 01:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Think of it this way also, if the blobs are in this "arena" then there are not on some gate, giving small gangs pvp another place
It would only take one blob to ruin this system for solo/small gang people
Leaving lots of blobs to go around for the rest of us.
I really can't see how anyone would think this is a good idea, it makes absolutely no sense for the eve universe. |
Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
91
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Posted - 2012.08.30 01:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
"Open world" PvP is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. The way your "arena"-style PvP would affect the 'open world' PvP is by taking away the players that may generally roam or fight in the 'open world' and cram them into these instanced arenas. This has been a counter-point to every proposal involving instanced PvP in all the topics you listed.
There isn't an infinite pool of PvP players out there, in fact, there is probably a scarcity. This idea spreads an already drained resource in EvE pretty thin. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 01:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Is open pvp not deterred due to blobs, and closed pvp would be bad due to blobs, then it seems that all pvp in eve is blob or die. Also I never indicated that I thought this system was flawless, but rather than say that won't work could you not offer an idea to make it plausible? |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 01:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
How about if upon entering you were automatically placed into a squad that has less than 10 people, to a maxium of 10 people. |
Raven Fenx
Deadly Bunchak Hunts
1
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Posted - 2012.08.30 01:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bad Idea.... Sisi already covers the cheap, experimental PVP quite well.
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 01:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Who said anything about cheap experimental pvp regarding the OP? |
Akara Ito
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2012.08.30 02:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why would I want to go into this glorified arena?
Edit: Please remove "ship restricted combat zones" from the list of things that have been suggested. Those things exist in the form of FW plexes. |
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 02:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Akara Ito wrote:Why would I want to go into this glorified arena? And that is what is so cool, if you don't want to, then don't. |
A Soporific
Able Archer Solutions
38
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Posted - 2012.08.30 02:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't really know much about the specifics of the kinds of combat being suggested.
I just don't like the fact that it's irrelevant. I don't like the fact that it ignores industry, exploration, mining, hauling, or trading. One of the things that I think makes Eve great is that everything matters to everything else. I don't see how this connects.
If we are going to do something as big as create a new kind of environment, I would like it to matter. To add to the cohesive whole of Eve. I mean, Wormholes injected a sense of exploration that had been lost by the growing population in Eve, at the same time it added whole different kinds of play and resources for virtually all players. How would this idea do that? How would this enrich the gaming experience for players who don't engage in arenas?
I think that at it's base the idea was borrowed from games that need arenas. While I am not convinced that the idea is bad, I just want to see why Eve needs an arena more than "it'd be awesome". |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 02:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
A Soporific wrote:I don't really know much about the specifics of the kinds of combat being suggested.
I just don't like the fact that it's irrelevant. I don't like the fact that it ignores industry, exploration, mining, hauling, or trading. One of the things that I think makes Eve great is that everything matters to everything else. I don't see how this connects.
If we are going to do something as big as create a new kind of environment, I would like it to matter. To add to the cohesive whole of Eve. I mean, Wormholes injected a sense of exploration that had been lost by the growing population in Eve, at the same time it added whole different kinds of play and resources for virtually all players. How would this idea do that? How would this enrich the gaming experience for players who don't engage in arenas?
I think that at it's base the idea was borrowed from games that need arenas. While I am not convinced that the idea is bad, I just want to see why Eve needs an arena more than "it'd be awesome". I had no idea that ships being destroyed had no effect of the economy of eve... back to reality, there are plenty of people that go on roams for the purpose of destroying ships, no looting, no nothing |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 02:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
mxzf wrote:So ... 20 minutes after this went live an alliance would have a 50 man fleet inside said system owning anyone and everyone who showed up.
How does this promote small gang/solo PvP again?
PvP arenas in general are just a bad idea. This one is less bad than many others, but it's still a bad idea. ok then to promote small gang pvp, only squads are allowed in, the squad leader activates the gate and the squad goes through, once in side (the system would be much smaller) there would be a 30 second delay before auto pilote warped them tto the staging area. The winner of the battle fights the next squad that jumps in. |
A Soporific
Able Archer Solutions
38
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Posted - 2012.08.30 03:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:A Soporific wrote:I don't really know much about the specifics of the kinds of combat being suggested.
I just don't like the fact that it's irrelevant. I don't like the fact that it ignores industry, exploration, mining, hauling, or trading. One of the things that I think makes Eve great is that everything matters to everything else. I don't see how this connects.
If we are going to do something as big as create a new kind of environment, I would like it to matter. To add to the cohesive whole of Eve. I mean, Wormholes injected a sense of exploration that had been lost by the growing population in Eve, at the same time it added whole different kinds of play and resources for virtually all players. How would this idea do that? How would this enrich the gaming experience for players who don't engage in arenas?
I think that at it's base the idea was borrowed from games that need arenas. While I am not convinced that the idea is bad, I just want to see why Eve needs an arena more than "it'd be awesome". I had no idea that ships being destroyed had no effect of the economy of eve... back to reality, there are plenty of people that go on roams for the purpose of destroying ships, no looting, no nothing
It's not that it doesn't have an effect. But entry is destruction, is it not? The cost of defeat and reward for victory are one and the same.
While many people go out just to destroy ships, the ships they destroy haven't already been written off. Many of them aren't combat ships, but haulers, explorers, or miners. Even if they don't intend to loot, they do have a powerful effect on the loot of others.
This will create a separate system unto itself. That runs counter to what I believe is a major design philosophy. If arenas exist, I do believe that victory will have to matter, and the mechanism itself must at least add something in the way of play style or resource to the rest of Eve if not be fully integrated throughout.
Remember, Arenas exist in many games to segregate PVP from the rest of the game where PVP is not allowed. That's not a benefit to Eve. That's something that threatens what makes Eve special. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 03:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
The ones that i know and have fought along side destroy any ships that come into there roam, most of which are combat ships doing the same, after all ships are destroyed from the opposing side the wrecks are destroyed also with the loot in them. Thus removing many modules from the game. But i suppose your fiinal statement is correct, and well worded. I will let this thread die now. |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
191
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Posted - 2012.08.30 03:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
I am suffering from ADD right now so I have not read the who string
I like the X go in and only Y comes out idea.
Just find a way to arrange the original assests to be deicated to the battles so one side can not bring in extras. then they can jump off to this secrite locations only reachable via worm hole. Then have the odd random worm hole reach the area to spice things up
But have a set arena with lots of cameras broadcasting and Defencss vs un invited guests. Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
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Posted - 2012.08.30 03:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:I am suffering from ADD right now so I have not read the who string
I like the X go in and only Y comes out idea.
Just find a way to arrange the original assests to be deicated to the battles so one side can not bring in extras. then they can jump off to this secrite locations only reachable via worm hole. Then have the odd random worm hole reach the area to spice things up
But have a set arena with lots of cameras broadcasting and Defencss vs un invited guests. Only thing about this idea is Y cannot leave, Z comes in to fight Y. |
Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
93
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Posted - 2012.08.30 04:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Is open pvp not deterred due to blobs, and closed pvp would be bad due to blobs, then it seems that all pvp in eve is blob or die.
Not to troll... but welcome to EvE. Not the best state of affairs or one that I endorse - but there are sensible ways to address this issue; instanced arenas are not it.
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Also I never indicated that I thought this system was flawless, but rather than say that won't work could you not offer an idea to make it plausible?
I don't think you quite understand. Your proposal, as a concept in itself (i.e. arena combat), will in all likelihood deter open-world PvP (which is what EvE PvP is all about) not promote it. Therefore there is nothing I can add or subtract to make your idea plausible. I completely disagree with the premise behind it. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
78
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Posted - 2012.08.30 05:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Is open pvp not deterred due to blobs, and closed pvp would be bad due to blobs, then it seems that all pvp in eve is blob or die. Not to troll... but welcome to EvE. Not the best state of affairs or one that I endorse - but there are sensible ways to address this issue; instanced arenas are not it. Omnathious Deninard wrote:Also I never indicated that I thought this system was flawless, but rather than say that won't work could you not offer an idea to make it plausible? I don't think you quite understand. Your proposal, as a concept in itself (i.e. arena combat), will in all likelihood deter open-world PvP (which is what EvE PvP is all about) not promote it. Therefore there is nothing I can add or subtract to make your idea plausible. I completely disagree with the premise behind it.
Actually I could argue that 'arenas' or 'battlegrounds' exist in EVE right now, and that theyre called... wormholes.
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