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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4502
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 18:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Eternal Error wrote:A few things, in no particular order:
1. Stop pretending like people are proposing this change for newbies. Everyone understands it's for nullsec guys.
+3 implants are 40m, nobody besides new players cares about that amount of money.
A couple of +4s cost that much and it works if you're remapped to train a specific set of skills. They're fairly cheap at the individual level for anybody who isn't new/poor. please leave |
Kunming
CyberShield Inc ROMANIAN-LEGION
70
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 19:34:00 -
[152] - Quote
Who cares about skillpoints... nerf the ISK flux in empire, inflation pisses off null dwellers, seriously who cares how many skillpoints anyone has ffs. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
298
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 19:46:00 -
[153] - Quote
rodyas wrote:^ Wouldn't that mostly affect new players, or incursion runners, or not incursion runners.
I recall CCP Soundwave wanting Sansha Incursion NPC's to POD but it was shot down as a bad idea =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
298
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 19:48:00 -
[154] - Quote
Kunming wrote:Who cares about skillpoints... nerf the ISK flux in NULL & fix the TECH moons too, passive mega moon farming riches pisses off HI dwellers, seriously who cares how many skillpoints anyone has ffs when T2 mods & ships are inflating due to the OTEC cartels.
FIXED =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Sirane Elrek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 21:06:00 -
[155] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Kunming wrote:Who cares about skillpoints... nerf the ISK flux in NULL & fix the TECH moons too, passive mega moon farming riches pisses off HI dwellers, seriously who cares how many skillpoints anyone has ffs when T2 mods & ships are inflating due to the OTEC cartels.
FIXED Guess what, "OTEC" is currently shooting each other. You would know that if you had any clue about what happens in Nullsec at all. Or looked at Dotlan. Or Kugutsumen. Or EN24. Or anywhere outside of your tiny little missioning/market hub. This isn't a new thing either.
Alternatively you could start reacting PT from Cobalt, but I guess that's more effort than just buying the stuff off the market. Easier to just forums warrior. |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
198
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 21:49:00 -
[156] - Quote
You're also talking about removing a tradeoff. In null sec there are benefits such as higher bounties, free pvp, ship replacement funds, moon harvesting, capital and super capital ships, etc. None of which are available in high sec. It's one of those inequalities that CCP Soundwave loves so much. Empire gets faster training times, null gets other fun things in its place. There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
714
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 22:07:00 -
[157] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I still think that allowing people to clone jump within the same station without a timer would be a better way of taking care of the "risk averse PVPer" problem. A sensible proposal. +1
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Ivory Kantenu
Sons of The Forge SpaceMonkey's Alliance
35
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Posted - 2012.08.30 22:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
Kunming wrote:Who cares about skillpoints... nerf the ISK flux in empire, inflation pisses off null dwellers, seriously who cares how many skillpoints anyone has ffs.
The only way to really stop the 'flux' is to remove Incursions. Missions are actually in a decent place, and loot is much better than it used to be, especially since the removal of meta 0.
I wouls say, though, that before any changes that are this potentially disrupting to the market, CCP should wait to see how the alchemy changes effect it Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread
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Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
44
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Posted - 2012.08.31 02:09:00 -
[159] - Quote
So get rid of learning implants. Keep the faction implants with ship bonuses minus the attribute bonuses. Add learning boosting programs: -Purchased for LP and isk. -Give +1 to +5 bonus to some or all attributes -Only work for a month or so. -Keep working after being podded.
This would keep or improve the isk sink, and removes the penalty for certain kinds of PvP. Rich people who play more can afford better ones but that's how it should be.
I would also implement this with a change to clone costs that are dramatically reduced and with the option upon being podded to auto buy the clone you need to cover your current skill points. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
148
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 02:38:00 -
[160] - Quote
Ivy Romanova wrote:well the thing is CCP is trying to split the gamer population.. giving it a more defined definition. High sec : Safe zone for the anti-social and timid nerds Low sec : Low life that gets bullied in school and now is trying to make up for it, and incursion runners too. Null sec : For the gladiators and intellectuals of the society , trying to make a name for themselves by exploring the riches of the unknown.
So... EVEN if people buys your argument, the very aim of it alone would make the chances of it actually being implemented VERY slim
Do you believe the crap you are shoveling? Or do you get a personal high out of servicing those you idolize? It is the greatest inequality to try to make unequal things equal. |
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Orzo Torasson
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 02:39:00 -
[161] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Andski wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote: That's horseshit from start to finish.
I agree completely the article was horseshit from start to finish. The Null bears really should stop calling hi-sec dwellers risk adverse when they are more risk adverse than the Null sec dwellers. the "nullbears" risk expensive ships far more often than anybody else And Large Null sec alliances have a ship replacement program. So does this not make the members of those Alliances more risk adverse than those in alliances without this type of program? After all it is only a risk to the player if he had to actually afford the "expensive ships" he was getting destroyed. Were as I don't see Alliances having an implant replacement program.
Actually, with the exception of Pandemic Legion, nullsec alliances will only reimburse certain ships fit a certain way on certain ops.
It's not like I can go and welp a deadspace fit Vargur and the alliance will be like "LOL GG nah but seriously here's 5 bil ISK for a new one." |
stoicfaux
1524
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 02:47:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mocam wrote: Many can afford what others consider a fortune in ships/fittings to fly and even lose them with no more than a shrug - we can buy more. What no one can buy is even 1 SP they didn't train and PvP players catch it in the short hairs the earlier they get into PvP vs those who "play it safe". I've always found these training benefits for PvP avoidance to be onerous. (if anything, PvP players should train skills *FASTER* than PvE players as a benefit - not slower.)
But, but... nullsec is where the big isk is, so nullsec players can buy characters with more skill points, thus gaining skill points at a rate higher than any set of +5s?
On a serious note,
If you're into empire building over mindless PvP, then you can nullbear with +5s if your corp/alliance can control the space.
If you're into mindless PvP, then what do you expect? Why should the rest of Eve listen to someone complain about skill point loss due to their suicidal tendency of actively trying to get their head blown off? It's like complaining about brain damage because you like to play "who can punch the other guy in the head the hardest" every day of your life.
If you're afraid of losing skill training time, roll/buy a combat alt, always pick fights you can win, stop PvP'ing, or quit thinking that a few extra skill points is more important than being well practiced at PvP.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Nikodiemus
Jokulhlaup
50
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:02:00 -
[163] - Quote
Why are you trying to curtail an issue where one does not yet exist. |
Ensign X
137
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:08:00 -
[164] - Quote
That article and this thread still haven't provided a single compelling argument to explain why there should be less risk involved in travelling, PVPing or living in Nullsec. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4505
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:37:00 -
[165] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:If you're afraid of losing skill training time, roll/buy a combat alt, always pick fights you can win, stop PvP'ing, or quit thinking that a few extra skill points is more important than being well practiced at PvP.
tell me why any given playstyle should be discouraged please leave |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4505
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:39:00 -
[166] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:That article and this thread still haven't provided a single compelling argument to explain why there should be less risk involved in travelling, PVPing or living in Nullsec.
how would this remove any risk
i don't understand pubbie logic but this doesn't eliminate risk by any means please leave |
Ensign X
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:47:00 -
[167] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ensign X wrote:That article and this thread still haven't provided a single compelling argument to explain why there should be less risk involved in travelling, PVPing or living in Nullsec. how would this remove any risk i don't understand pubbie logic but this doesn't eliminate risk by any means
Flying in nullsec with expensive implants is a risk.
Removing expensive implants from the game eliminates that risk.
Logic isn't hard.
edit: I would suggest you check your ad hominem at the door, but considering you're posting in a location where you can't use the threat of bans to support your arguments, you can continue with the insults as you wish. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4505
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:48:00 -
[168] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Andski wrote:Ensign X wrote:That article and this thread still haven't provided a single compelling argument to explain why there should be less risk involved in travelling, PVPing or living in Nullsec. how would this remove any risk i don't understand pubbie logic but this doesn't eliminate risk by any means Flying in nullsec with expensive implants is a risk. Removing expensive implants from the game eliminates that risk. Logic isn't hard.
because learning implants are the only implants in the game and this would remove all risk from the game and losses would be absolutely irrelevant
l0l please leave |
Ensign X
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:51:00 -
[169] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ensign X wrote:Andski wrote:Ensign X wrote:That article and this thread still haven't provided a single compelling argument to explain why there should be less risk involved in travelling, PVPing or living in Nullsec. how would this remove any risk i don't understand pubbie logic but this doesn't eliminate risk by any means Flying in nullsec with expensive implants is a risk. Removing expensive implants from the game eliminates that risk. Logic isn't hard. because learning implants are the only implants in the game and this would remove all risk from the game and losses would be absolutely irrelevant l0l
Cool strawman.
I guess I should have been more specific for you.
Flying in nullsec with expensive learning implants is an added risk.
Removing learning implants eliminates that added risk.
Try again, Andy. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4505
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:55:00 -
[170] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Cool strawman.
I guess I should have been more specific for you.
Flying in nullsec with expensive learning implants is an added risk.
Removing learning implants eliminates that added risk.
Try again, Andy.
again, you're wrong, and you're accusing me of a strawman when you're the one saying that I want all risk removed from the game
why are you so intent on punishing players who take a different playstyle than you? not everyone likes saving the damsel for the nth time, tbh please leave |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
540
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:07:00 -
[171] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ensign X wrote:Andski wrote:Ensign X wrote:That article and this thread still haven't provided a single compelling argument to explain why there should be less risk involved in travelling, PVPing or living in Nullsec. how would this remove any risk i don't understand pubbie logic but this doesn't eliminate risk by any means Flying in nullsec with expensive implants is a risk. Removing expensive implants from the game eliminates that risk. Logic isn't hard. because learning implants are the only implants in the game and this would remove all risk from the game and losses would be absolutely irrelevant l0l
i agree but common goons! how much trillions of isk you guys have? did not the years of tech you got made it so losses dont really count?
personally dont get rid of learning implants but please do something about clone costs 40 million just to be podded is bull... either reduce the costs or just make it so i can build new clones with industry slots... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Ensign X
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:08:00 -
[172] - Quote
Andski wrote:again, you're wrong, and you're accusing me of a strawman when you're the one saying that I want all risk removed from the game
Show me where I said anything even remotely resembling this. You can't, because I didn't. My argument is that removing learning implants removes the risk of losing learning implants. It does, unequivocally. There's no debating that point. What is in debate is whether or not that risk should be removed from the game, and I'm doubting that you've provided a compelling argument for why they should. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
540
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:11:00 -
[173] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Andski wrote:again, you're wrong, and you're accusing me of a strawman when you're the one saying that I want all risk removed from the game Show me where I said anything even remotely resembling this. You can't, because I didn't. My argument is that removing learning implants removes the risk of losing learning implants. It does, unequivocally. There's no debating that point. What is in debate is whether or not that risk should be removed from the game, and I'm doubting that you've provided a compelling argument for why they should.
true there is still loosing ships and other hardware implants... those should count too...
but no dont get rid of learning implants thats just plain stupid. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
540
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:13:00 -
[174] - Quote
Orzo Torasson wrote:
It's not like I can go and welp a deadspace fit Vargur and the alliance will be like "LOL GG nah but seriously here's 5 bil ISK for a new one."
no but you can welp a welpcane or a drake or a logi all you want and get your isk back... thats the point you wanna make personal isk and use an expensive setup koodos to you... but for CTA **** you get your isk back...
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4505
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:23:00 -
[175] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Andski wrote:again, you're wrong, and you're accusing me of a strawman when you're the one saying that I want all risk removed from the game Show me where I said anything even remotely resembling this. You can't, because I didn't. My argument is that removing learning implants removes the risk of losing learning implants. It does, unequivocally. There's no debating that point. What is in debate is whether or not that risk should be removed from the game, and I'm doubting that you've provided a compelling argument for why they should.
The "risk" of losing them is zero when you're never flying with them. The reward is equal whether you fly with them or stay docked up. How is this true to the risk/reward aspect of the game? please leave |
stoicfaux
1526
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 04:25:00 -
[176] - Quote
Andski wrote:stoicfaux wrote:If you're afraid of losing skill training time, roll/buy a combat alt, always pick fights you can win, stop PvP'ing, or quit thinking that a few extra skill points is more important than being well practiced at PvP. tell me why any given playstyle should be discouraged Tell me about more about Hulkageddon, Mr. Goonswarm person.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 06:03:00 -
[177] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Mocam wrote: Many can afford what others consider a fortune in ships/fittings to fly and even lose them with no more than a shrug - we can buy more. What no one can buy is even 1 SP they didn't train and PvP players catch it in the short hairs the earlier they get into PvP vs those who "play it safe". I've always found these training benefits for PvP avoidance to be onerous. (if anything, PvP players should train skills *FASTER* than PvE players as a benefit - not slower.)
But, but... nullsec is where the big isk is, so nullsec players can buy characters with more skill points, thus gaining skill points at a rate higher than any set of +5s? On a serious note, If you're into empire building over mindless PvP, then you can nullbear with +5s if your corp/alliance can control the space. If you're into mindless PvP, then what do you expect? Why should the rest of Eve listen to someone complain about skill point loss due to their suicidal tendency of actively trying to get their head blown off? It's like complaining about brain damage because you like to play "who can punch the other guy in the head the hardest" every day of your life. If you're afraid of losing skill training time, roll/buy a combat alt, always pick fights you can win, stop PvP'ing, or quit thinking that a few extra skill points is more important than being well practiced at PvP.
I like that.. Seriously. "mindless PvP" - vs mindful? hehe
PvP is what keeps the economy flowing. Less PvP and the market bloats with low-cost products that generate virtually no profits to those into PvE -- low demand for items with a high supply due to lack of consumption.
As such, I tend to be "mindful" of issues that impact PvP - the more players willing and able to get into PvP, the better off the entire economy is and that helps the overall game.
"roll/buy a combat alt" - there we go again. "get past all penalties and limits in EVE by buying more accounts. It helps EVE and ..."
Yes, tossing RL money at multiple accounts (be that your own or via PLEX someone else paid RL money for) can buy you past most limits in this game and how most "dangerous space" players will insist you solve any problems in this game. "point scout", "cyno alt" "hauler alt", "indy alt", corp holder", etc. Just get enough accounts and your set.
THAT would be an interesting advertisement with EVE - "expect to get multiple accounts if you stay with this game." Not a good advert IMO but a lot more accurate based upon this communities attitudes these days.
"well practiced at PvP" - takes all of 2 weeks.
Whether you do that within the first couple of weeks or YEARS later -- climb into a cheap ship and go for it. There is no difference in how quickly or slowly you will figure out the hands-on side.
The big differences are the longer you wait, the more you have "caught up" to other players by being able to fit & fly ships far better than someone who just jumps in - and how big your bank is to afford to do so. How? Use higher end implants and avoid PvP to bank up and train faster.
Just avoid PvP...
PvP = consumption of goods in the game. More consumption = market turnover and demand for goods, which equates to a better PvE experience -and- far more active PvP for those who really enjoy it.
Oh, and yes - "a few more SP" -- I have a bit over 61 million SP across just under 3 years. With a perfect map & plan, staying as a station trader in highsec - you could have a bit over 70 million in the time I've been playing. I know players with less than 53 million who started around when I did and have been active in PvP since early on. That I find to be a problem.
Why the hell should someone who isn't involved in PvP be able to gain the skills to fit & fly better ships than someone who uses ships all the time?
Keeping up I can see but this situation really doesn't make sense for a game that supposedly is so focused on PvP to drive it. |
Lord Zim
1198
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 07:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Andski wrote:again, you're wrong, and you're accusing me of a strawman when you're the one saying that I want all risk removed from the game Show me where I said anything even remotely resembling this. You can't, because I didn't. My argument is that removing learning implants removes the risk of losing learning implants. It does, unequivocally. There's no debating that point. What is in debate is whether or not that risk should be removed from the game, and I'm doubting that you've provided a compelling argument for why they should. So you're going to completely ignore the fact that lots of people go "I don't think I'll go out PVPing today, I can't jumpclone out of this +5'd clone", or just avoid PVP in any way, shape or form because "they have implants", which leads to less PVP and a less exciting gameworld? |
Lord Zim
1198
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 07:53:00 -
[179] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Nope it was not that article Which one, then? I will try to find it for you as I cannot remember the title at the moment. I read a lot of articles. Hey, so, we're still waiting. We're still waiting. Which article were you talking about which didn't have the proper list of numbers of losses somewhere in the article? |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1119
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 07:58:00 -
[180] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Roime wrote:NPCs should pod. I support this 100%. But how many neg 10s will be drowning the forums in tears of anguish as their sole source of KMs (high sec miners) is shut off to them? Mr Epeen
That would naturally be accompanied by:
1) more hisec-lowsec gates and stations with medical and repair facilities 2) moving 4/10s L4s and Incursions to lowsec 3) revamping mission system for more random locations to prevent mission hub & system camping 4) revamping NPC AI to favour proper fits instead of shitfits 5) increasing resources in lowsec: - all DED 1-3/10 sites should appear in ls as well (why no content for new players in lowsec?) - more ladar sites 6) removing cynos and supers from lowsec 7) new pirate NPC starter corps and related new PVE content 8) fixing existing starter corps so that evernoobs can't contaminate the real new players with false ideas 9) improve NPE even further to allow nubs to take care of themselves outside CONCORD protectiob
For example. Not saying lowsec is broken, for me it's the second best sec after w-space, but I feel that this is the general direction EVE changes would take.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
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