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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 26 post(s) |
Guitonkagya
Minmatar The Ouroboros Partnership
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Posted - 2011.04.13 12:48:00 -
[271]
Reported 7 bots that operate in my home system the other day. Via petition and email.
Great job your doing Spud and keep up the good work.
bump too
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Araknus Prime
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Posted - 2011.04.13 13:16:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Araknus Prime on 13/04/2011 13:26:13 Edited by: Araknus Prime on 13/04/2011 13:23:00 An interesting thread and interesting views. I like debates (read I like to argue one of the reasons I got married) so I am going to post controversially here on possible reasons that botting became so prolific before CCP hit it head on.
0.0 Now broken imho with the latest changes, shifting the benefits back to the big power blocks and stifling small corp/alliance growth. Isk making now for smaller groups of people is less viable in 0.0
Low Sec Still broken imho itĘs a bit like Libya everyone knows where it is but nobody wants to go there.
Ice Mining Come on seriously does anyone want to spend that long in a game sat still waiting for a ridiculously long cycle to complete sorry but in high sec that just must draw in bots like moths to a flame. Do something with it to make it have even a small amount of appeal (again this is my view only here)
Rock chomping At least this is a bit quicker than ice mining and has some variety but even so it can be likened to fishing. ItĘs ok to do for a while with a few beers and some nice tunes but other than that forget it (however a lot of peeps do like this so on balance its probably ok I donĘt really know, I just donĘt like it)
PvP Is fast becoming whose blob is biggest and 90% wait for 10% action (I am probably doing it wrong I usually do but then this is my opinions and thatĘs the way I see it)
So along comes Johnny botmaker and produces something that allows people to gather the time consuming stuff automatically and promises a fast path to riches and isk on tap to the people who buy it. Ultimately human beings are in the most part greedy (ok flames galore now but this is my opinion and if you look at how effective get rich quick scams are you see that this is true it does not apply to all obviously but in general people are greedy thatĘs why the scams exist and why they work).
To really eliminate bots why not work on fixing the in game reasons they exist as well as targeting the bots in the game (obviously CCP canĘt be expected to fix the human greed issue but it may be possible to reduce in some way the advantage a bot may give by making ice deplete for example)
My final point you could actually measure the success of an MMO by the amount of Bots that get created for it after all who would waste time and effort making a bot for an MMO that was not successful and people want to play and excel at.
TLDR: Kudos to CCP for tackling the bot problem head on can you now please tackle the reason they existed in the first place. (Oh and before anyone says it that does not mean make EvE online a rubbish MMO)
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:07:00 -
[273]
Edited by: Vincent Athena on 13/04/2011 16:13:24
Originally by: Araknus Prime
To really eliminate bots why not work on fixing the in game reasons they exist as well as targeting the bots in the game (obviously CCP canĘt be expected to fix the human greed issue but it may be possible to reduce in some way the advantage a bot may give by making ice deplete for example)
Well, ice does deplete, as do roids. As bots mine roids, depletion does not stop them.
But no mater how you change the game, a bot running 23/7 will make more money than you can. (Other than limiting on-line time, or some other artificial limit). Thus there is always a pull to bot.
Also many players like ice mining because it lets them make isk while reading, watching TV, paying the bills, doing yard work, etc.
Changing content so its more complex will also fail to kill all bots. A bot can drive a rover on Mars, Google has a bot driving a car in traffic, a bot is world chess champion, and another is the Jeopardy champion. The game cannot be made to complex to bot and still fun to play by people. That said content change to made botting harder may convince some bot writers to go do something else. CCP Sreegs does have a content guy on his team for this reason.
Ive also noticed a interesting trend from all people saying content should be changed. They almost never say what it should be changed to. And when they do, the suggestion is still uninteresting (make mining a passive activity like PI, leaving miners with nothing to do), or would be annoying to players (CAPTHCA), or would still be a bot draw.
At the end though, they agreed to a EULA. Violating it because they do not like the content is unacceptable.
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coolzero
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:11:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Araknus Prime Edited by: Araknus Prime on 13/04/2011 13:26:13 Edited by: Araknus Prime on 13/04/2011 13:23:00
Ice Mining Come on seriously does anyone want to spend that long in a game sat still waiting for a ridiculously long cycle to complete sorry but in high sec that just must draw in bots like moths to a flame. Do something with it to make it have even a small amount of appeal (again this is my view only here)
i have no problems with ice mining...i like it chatting away and be able to oversee the home situation(kids/dog/wife) but only if the price for ice is good.. bots where mining so much that it wasnt worth it to spend time on it...with the a lot of bots gone price will go up making it worth again to do ice mining Jack of all trades, master of none...
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Larissa Sunsorrow
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:42:00 -
[275]
CCP needs to clean some wallets after the ban. take a look at this post from someone banned for using bots:
Quote: Both of my 2 botting accounts were unbanned yesterday. One of them was still active, so I went on and salvaged everything I could: ore, ships, and ISK. I still possessed everything I had before the account suspensions. My other account was inactive, so I used the 4 hour time period they give you to use PLEX to take everything off of it. To my surprise, I managed to gather over 2 billion ISK from these two accounts.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:49:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Larissa Sunsorrow CCP needs to clean some wallets after the ban. take a look at this post from someone banned for using bots:
Quote: Both of my 2 botting accounts were unbanned yesterday. One of them was still active, so I went on and salvaged everything I could: ore, ships, and ISK. I still possessed everything I had before the account suspensions. My other account was inactive, so I used the 4 hour time period they give you to use PLEX to take everything off of it. To my surprise, I managed to gather over 2 billion ISK from these two accounts.
It would certainly not go amiss. On the bright side, it sounds like he is closing up shop after his first ban. Hopefully it's the start of a trend.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
clixor
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:45:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst I still say you remove a crapload of skill points in whatever areas they're set up for botting. Mining bot? Lose astrogeology. Penny bot? Lose all trade skills.
Hit them below the belt.
We're talking entry level SP here. The only way to hit the botters hard is where it hurts most: their Wallets. Technically it probably isn't a issue. I assume it's probably a legal/customer retention thing. Marketing guys with targets probably don't want to also loose the guys who bot occasionally.
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Henry Haphorn
Gallente Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:55:00 -
[278]
Here is a thought I brought up long ago, but seems to have been ignored. It's a suggestion that's based off of the concept brought up the introduction of PI.
Every once in a while, during mining, a little notification should pop up saying something like this:
"Your computer has detected an anomaly within your mining modules <be it mining laser upgrades, standard miners or crystals>. You must recalibrate them now before they start suffering damage or yield degradation."
Once you click ok, a pop up windows comes up and you have to manually click and drag around a series of puzzles the same way you would when you view a planet in Planet mode and then you have to make corrections based on your best guess and observations. What do you think?
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FeralShadow
RipStar. United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:58:00 -
[279]
Sounds entertaining. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Jones Bones
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.04.14 02:56:00 -
[280]
I wish I could bot my PVP. Then I would never have to be at my computer.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.04.14 08:44:00 -
[281]
So I read on a certain forum beginning with 'K' that the alliance leadership of a certain rouge-tinted overlordy kind has been permabanned for "sustained EULA violations"; 11 characters, including 2 with Titans.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.14 09:53:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Malcanis So I read on a certain forum beginning with 'K' that the alliance leadership of a certain rouge-tinted overlordy kind has been permabanned for "sustained EULA violations"; 11 characters, including 2 with Titans.
About fscking time as well! I do hope its true
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 10:02:00 -
[283]
That was for RMT though, not for botting (if it is correct). And CCP cares about RMT and not about botting (decreases their profit by plexes sold), while I care about botting and not about RMT (RMT is just moving ISK, the issue is how it is created. Yes you gain an unfair advantage by spending real money, just like when you sell plexes and buy a char).
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.04.14 10:59:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Furb Killer That was for RMT though, not for botting (if it is correct). And CCP cares about RMT and not about botting (decreases their profit by plexes sold), while I care about botting and not about RMT (RMT is just moving ISK, the issue is how it is created. Yes you gain an unfair advantage by spending real money, just like when you sell plexes and buy a char).
ROL space is literally seething with bots. In fact it's about all there is there.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 12:27:00 -
[285]
True, which is why I am glad he is banned. But he is not banned for botting, he is banned for RMT. So this is not a reason to expect CCP is actually going to deal with botting, for them the problem is that he RMT'ed, not that he used bots to get his ISK.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.04.14 13:28:00 -
[286]
I didn't say it was. Botting and RMT are related, though, and I thought it was interesting and entertaining news on a related subject.
Death to cheaters.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.14 14:15:00 -
[287]
It would appear dotlan has been having problems recording npc kills so the figures are somewhat skewed.
Whether that relates to some of the routing problems of late or otherwise - don't know. Its worth clicking on your favourite ratbot system and look at the graph. For the ones I look at I don't really see much reduction in the npc kills when the graph is working.
I hear plenty of wailing and gnashing of teeth (second-hand) but I get the impression that there's basically a load of isk laundering going on now. NB - I don't mean RMT, I mean people trying to sanitise their prior bot income. Once that's done we'll see what happens.
Its not rocket science and hopefully purging mining bots and RMT isn't all that's on the table....
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.04.14 15:22:00 -
[288]
Ive been monitoring Jita prices to see evidence of the bot war.
Isotopes prices continue to climb. Soon it may be reasonable for a player to ice mine instead of roid mine.
Mineral prices are going DOWN. All minerals, including the high end stuff through Morphite. Several possible reasons.
1) It is just the market doing its thing, no influence from bots at all 2) Ice miners, fearing being labeled botters are moving to roid mining figuring the greater amount of activity involved will make it obvious they are players. 3) Drone region botters are dumping their drone minerals on the market, sanitizing their ill gotten gains before CCP starts a policy of removing them. 4) Ratting bots are getting hit, and the isk they generate via bounties is dropping, and hence the demand for minerals is dropping. 5) The anomaly nerf is reducing isk gained via bounties, and hence the demand for minerals is dropping.
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.04.14 16:18:00 -
[289]
Hey guys, sorry I havn't postd here in a few days, RL comes first ya know
Sreegs, ty for your continued support in my thread. Tip'o my hat to ya, good sir!
Araknus Prime, you make a good point, and I welcome the Debate. I once had a thread, now burried deep in the features and Ideas section, that pointed out mining kinda sux. I threw a few ideas out on how to fix it...roids with veins, seige-hulks, death to Carrot top etc. Here it is, if you wanna read it.
I agree that mining could greatly benefit from a good overhaul....and I would love ICE mining to be gone and have some other way of harvesting Ice products.
But, as the players here have stated, regadless of the system, botting isn't fare to the norml players.
SO Here's todays update.
Website C is still down, their new ETA is the 17th of this month...I would like to point out that the deadline keeps being pushed back a few days. The reason for the delay now is "ETA adjustment due to real-life obligations". Thats kewl, even the bot creators need to handel RL first. Outside the game, DD's probably a kewl dude....but inside, he's a public enemy.
And speaking of public enemy, I beleive Othran needs a +1 kudos from us all. he's really struck a nerve with the botters on website c. I foudn this little comment "Othran, if you're reading this, **** off. I bet you used to be a botter and got bent, now that you can't have the free candy, none of the other kids should, either (in your ******ed opinion)." Othran, somehow you're getting more tears then I am. Wear this insult badge proudly, you've really ****ed them off.
Readers, join me in giving +1.
Website B remains silent, only a few posts here and there about updates. I still think their bot is working, but there are many posts about not using the bot 23/7. I think this website will suffer more in the slow burn then the immediate ban. As CCP makes it harder and harder to bot, the usres here will eventually learn it's not worth the risk for the reward.
We have recognition from Website A. I found this post:
"I found this thread. It worries me that even we have spies but not unexpected:
anonym.to/?http://www.eveonline.com/inga...amp;threadID=1492296"
To the members of Website A, that are also readers of my thread. BOO! Scared yet?
I havn't had the time to check out the ratter website. Does anyone know if thew new nullsec changes affects belt ratting? I should also note, the ratter program has a feature that checks local for neuts and cloaks up when they jump into system. Keep that in mind the next time you read a "Nerf the AFK cloakers" thread.
Thank you to my readers for your continued support and bumps. I hope this thread helps the gamers of Eve know that CCP is working on their issues, and I also hope it lets CCP know that we appreciate their work.
I'd like to give special recognition and thanks to Henry Haphorn for doing some additionl research and posting the botters tears. I'd also like thank Vincent Athena for monitoring Jita prices and proving to the botters that EVE will survive without them.
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Type VIIb
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Posted - 2011.04.14 17:11:00 -
[290]
My thoughts from what I've been read around the interwebs.
The mineral market is going to fall for a while since the recently unbanned are dumping their wares for what isk they can get for it and then move it to their main accounts. You manufacturing types could make a killing this weekend.
About half the folks I've talked to plan on cancelling their bot accounts after they have cleaned up their assets. Only a couple claim that they will cancel their main accounts as well. There has been heated discussion on that topic, it will be interesting to see what round two (30day bans) will do. Many of them told me that they got in to it because there did not appear to be any real enforcement from CCP until the last couple weeks. Most said they just did it for spending cash and buying PLEX.
Characters that were banned appear to have received about 72 hours worth of training time after the ban went in to effect. So it would appear that they only lost 11 days of training. Banned players could also not make changes to their account information during the ban, including payment options.
The sale of characters has been debated by many of the botters. There appears to be a misconception that selling the character will transfer the guilt to the new buyer, but most eventually agree that that would be wrong as it would be the account and the account owner that held the black mark against them not the character itself.
Several of the people pointed out that with the 'no credit card' rule that you can use to make accounts and the buddy program both are easily abused to feed in to ways of the botter as well. In one thread there was a running joke wondering how many accounts are in the names of people like Angelina Jolie and Kermit T Frog.
In the end only a few of the selfish and heavily addicted botters were actually mad about the ban cycle. Many felt that so long as the enforcement was fair and balanced (all bot types, not just the miners) they wouldn't go back to it. The undertone of those discussions however was overshadowed with a belief that this is a flash in the pan and lost revenues to CPP might cause them to back down in the long run.
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Neamus
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Posted - 2011.04.14 17:49:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Tasha Baxter Idk, the idea of prices going up doesn't bother me at all. Losses could do with hurting more, more people flying small, less T2/T3, not-so-sustainable cap fleets.
All positives in my eyes.
Agreed. Loosing an expensive ship used to mean alot more than it does now, for many people its almost trivial.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.14 17:52:00 -
[292]
It would be interesting to be omnipotent and know for a fact how many accounts are lost due to people being upset about their mining no longer being a viable profession (due to bots), or simply due to the proliferation of bots in general giving them a bad taste for the game.
I would not be surprised at all if CCP actually retains more accounts (satisfied customers) than it loses (frustrated bot users).
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Greagore
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Posted - 2011.04.14 18:28:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Malcanis .... Botting and RMT are related, though, ....
Death to cheaters.
Well with this train of thought I guess that means that any action that generates isk is related to botting.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.14 18:32:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Greagore
Originally by: Malcanis .... Botting and RMT are related, though, ....
Death to cheaters.
Well with this train of thought I guess that means that any action that generates isk is related to botting.
Except, of course, that the facts prove this to undeniably be true.
It serves as the most reliable and controlable way, short of outright account theft (which is actually enabled via the use of some bots) to generate the amounts of isk necessary with a minimum staff.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
LeviUK
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.04.14 18:46:00 -
[295]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs
I've been in contact with some people at other companies. Most of them tend to play their cards very close to their chests but I'm trying to get some really good cross industry communication going on. It may mean that we have to have some more success and get people's attention first.
Just remember not to talk to HBGary and the likes this time - if you're expecting players to help, we don't expect out OS's to be infected (and from that mail, it's more than fair to assume). Think before you deploy any silly solution to the end user, you have seen how low other issues have pushed the flash point ;)
If you're talking about communicating with some of the financial side; good luck - been there and done that for other things... it was not pleasant.
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Henry Haphorn
Gallente Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.04.14 18:50:00 -
[296]
Thanks for the recognition, Ninjaspud. I'll continue to look into other websites to see what I could learn. Also, if I find anything that could potentially be a weakness in any bot in particular, I will report it directly to CCP. You folks should do the same. Don't post any bot weaknesses you find here on the thread as no doubt the bot programmers are watching this thread. Instead, report it directly to CCP.
Let's keep this up, guys. Let's push for more bot tears and keep eavesdropping on the bot community. Once again, please report any bot weakness you may find directly to CCP since they would know what to do with that kind of information.
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Linda Shadowborn
Gallente Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.14 19:01:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Araknus Prime
Ice Mining Come on seriously does anyone want to spend that long in a game sat still waiting for a ridiculously long cycle to complete sorry but in high sec that just must draw in bots like moths to a flame. Do something with it to make it have even a small amount of appeal (again this is my view only here)
Rock chomping At least this is a bit quicker than ice mining and has some variety but even so it can be likened to fishing. ItĘs ok to do for a while with a few beers and some nice tunes but other than that forget it (however a lot of peeps do like this so on balance its probably ok I donĘt really know, I just donĘt like it)
Ill be labled insane but i actually enjoy mining both ice and regular stuff. Sadly it is so horribly inefficient isk/hour wise i dont do it much anymore. I think it is more of a "to each their own" my friend Christine loves mining too but with the current isk/hour.. she thought about resubbing until i told her about the values of rocks.. and she decided against it.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.04.14 20:13:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
Originally by: Araknus Prime
Ice Mining Come on seriously does anyone want to spend that long in a game sat still waiting for a ridiculously long cycle to complete sorry but in high sec that just must draw in bots like moths to a flame. Do something with it to make it have even a small amount of appeal (again this is my view only here)
Rock chomping At least this is a bit quicker than ice mining and has some variety but even so it can be likened to fishing. ItĘs ok to do for a while with a few beers and some nice tunes but other than that forget it (however a lot of peeps do like this so on balance its probably ok I donĘt really know, I just donĘt like it)
Ill be labled insane but i actually enjoy mining both ice and regular stuff. Sadly it is so horribly inefficient isk/hour wise i dont do it much anymore. I think it is more of a "to each their own" my friend Christine loves mining too but with the current isk/hour.. she thought about resubbing until i told her about the values of rocks.. and she decided against it.
I ice mine on my alt to fuel a tower and just keep an eye on the screen to either dock up to unload or gtfo out of the belt if combat ships show up on grid. Usually playing BLOPS or doing work while the lasers cycle. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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FeralShadow
RipStar. United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.14 20:46:00 -
[299]
I should also note, the ratter program has a feature that checks local for neuts and cloaks up when they jump into system. Keep that in mind the next time you read a "Nerf the AFK cloakers" thread.
^^^^
Have seen this many many many times while roaming around null sec. At any rate, props to Orthar (sp?) for taking so much heat. This really is making my day _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Smarcus Smokus
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Posted - 2011.04.14 21:21:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Smarcus Smokus on 14/04/2011 21:27:10 I was on my way home from work yesterday and heard this story on NPR:
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/04/13/pm-poker-bots-invade-the-virtual-casino/
They interviewed people from both sides of the fence, as is typical NPR style. It was very interesting to see the parallels to Eve botting.
Edit: Just realized I made post 300...FOR SPARTA!!!!
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