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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 05:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kiteo Hatto on 05/04/2011 06:03:06 Hey guys, i've been pulling my hair out all night trying to decide which bs to cross-train to. I've been using apoc(i LOVE it) to run missions for amarr but it's become a pain to do angel and gurista missions. I would like to get an 'alternative' BS just for these missions. Have almost 10m SP in gunnery and just under 1mil in drones. Im also not too far off t2 shield tanking modules.
As i absolutely can't stand the look of a raven i counted that one out.
I can either go for Maelstrom or a Hyperion. I absolutely love the look of these and i heard they were both alright at lvl 4's.
So...my question is which one to go for ? Training time doesnt matter 'too' much as i will be more comfortable with t2 guns anyway.
I want to know which BS is easier to run lvl 4's in as i've seen a lot of people say Mael while others say Hype.
P.S. i kinda hate cap boosters....
Thanks in advance :)
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Deerin
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.05 06:10:00 -
[2]
Since you are not getting any damage bonuses on apoc anyway, you just might do fine with putting AC's in highs for angel and guristas missions, without bothering to crosstrain. ------------------------------------------- Die Amarr Die!!! |
Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 06:21:00 -
[3]
I won't be getting the rate of fire bonus of Mael if i do that then...And i kinda just want a new ship to fly :P
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Dark Voynix
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2011.04.05 06:46:00 -
[4]
Crosstrain Caldari so you can use also the Nighmare seems to be a good option. Training minnie will make you able to use blood raider ships ( baalghorn ), but they arent that good in Pve.
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2011.04.05 07:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: AstarothPrime on 05/04/2011 07:56:01
Originally by: Deerin Since you are not getting any damage bonuses on apoc anyway, you just might do fine with putting AC's in highs for angel and guristas missions, without bothering to crosstrain.
Since such blasphemy can be said only by a pilot who never flew amarr... ill teach you that:
- apoc has probably the best damage bonus of all amarr ships. Dont see it - take a look at crystals and their quite linear damage / distance ratio change... meaning - shorter range crystal = more damage. Apoc having distance bonus means - you can use shorter range crystal to pew pew. Meaning its - DAMAGE bonus. Get it?
**************************************** Comparing damage bonuses :
Load abaddon with standard L Load apoc with same turrets and gamma L (-37.5% range)
THEN see the dps EFT spits out... you will be amazed with apocalypse pure awesomeness
Regards
I.
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 07:58:00 -
[6]
So....what ship can i train for then ? D: I dont want to go caldari just yet(even though NM is a sick boat). I also thought of upgrading to Abaddon, but then im kinda worried about cap issues, skills are mostly at 5 but still =|.
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Jesterspet
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Posted - 2011.04.05 08:11:00 -
[7]
1298(conflag L) DPS baddon with a cap injector and 60km range with mega pulse II's. Suck it up and use multi freq's or conflag L + scorch L. Guristas and Angel BS's and BC's melt, everything else is drone bait as it should be.
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 08:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jesterspet 1298(conflag L) DPS baddon with a cap injector and 60km range with mega pulse II's. Suck it up and use multi freq's or conflag L + scorch L. Guristas and Angel BS's and BC's melt, everything else is drone bait as it should be.
I do actually like the sound of conflag, them things good on apoc ?
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.04.05 08:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ChromeStriker on 05/04/2011 08:28:19 Id go for the Maelstrom for one simple but important reason.... 1400's sound Awesome!! (yes eve has sound) Also (this is personally a secondary thought) with 800 autos you have the damage projection the hyp doesnt ( hybrids are broked) and you will get a higher DPS count because you can fill the lows with dmg mods, and tank in the mids. my 2 cents
edit: shtuff
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 08:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ChromeStriker Edited by: ChromeStriker on 05/04/2011 08:28:19 Id go for the Maelstrom for one simple but important reason.... 1400's sound Awesome!! (yes eve has sound) Also (this is personally a secondary thought) with 800 autos you have the damage projection the hyp doesnt ( hybrids are broked) and you will get a higher DPS count because you can fill the lows with dmg mods, and tank in the mids. my 2 cents
edit: shtuff
Im leaning towards Mael more now XD, but please explain why 1400s ? Most of the fits i've seen were using 1200 scouts or otherwise 800's t2's.
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Sessym
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.05 08:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kiteo Hatto but please explain why 1400s ? Most of the fits i've seen were using 1200 scouts or otherwise 800's t2's.
Because throwing 8 small cars at them is more fun than 8 motorcycles. If you are using artillery and you rely on their tracking, you're doing something wrong. With a bit manual piloting, you can make 1400's drop bcs and cruisers in a volley, sometimes less. For angel rats, do 800mm repeating, for gurista 1400s. Just remember to check your ammo types.
0= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'So grab your guns.'
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 09:00:00 -
[12]
Sweet stuff, can finally go to sleep :P. thanks for all the replies guys !
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Dark Voynix
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2011.04.05 10:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 05/04/2011 10:09:18 Ok, so you will crostrain but you dont want caldari ( even if would allow you to use the Nighmare) so what reamains is gallente and minnie. That said there is no contest: MINNIE !!
Im maxed both on gallente and minnie and simply there is no contest. Hybrid railguns do low dammage, even on a kronos is pure crap ( i know from direct experience).
Blasters on the other side have too small range. Train for t2 autocannons and you will never regret it. Autocannons and track enchangers ( + damage mods of course) ALL THE WAY.
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 10:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Voynix Edited by: Dark Voynix on 05/04/2011 10:09:18 Ok, so you will crostrain but you dont want caldari ( even if would allow you to use the Nighmare) so what reamains is gallente and minnie. That said there is no contest: MINNIE !!
Im maxed both on gallente and minnie and simply there is no contest. Hybrid railguns do low dammage, even on a kronos is pure crap ( i know from direct experience).
Blasters on the other side have too small range. Train for t2 autocannons and you will never regret it. Autocannons and track enchangers ( + damage mods of course) ALL THE WAY.
Thanks for the reply, im now more confident in Mael :). I will train caldari eventually(really want nightmare in the long run), but for now i just want to shoot angels and guristas with something other than lasers. Plus i always wanted to try arties :D, remember small ones on a destroyer sounded epic, so i can only imagine....
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.04.05 11:28:00 -
[15]
A gank fitted tach pala(1k+ turret DPS) can do the AE(40 Minutes with looting, skipping bonus room) and guristas assault(30-40 minutes depending on how long you are jammed) you get in amarr space from time to time reasonable quick. It is also a massive improvement over the apoc for the rest of the missions. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.04.05 11:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Voynix Edited by: Dark Voynix on 05/04/2011 10:09:18 Ok, so you will crostrain but you dont want caldari ( even if would allow you to use the Nighmare) so what reamains is gallente and minnie. That said there is no contest: MINNIE !!
Im maxed both on gallente and minnie and simply there is no contest. Hybrid railguns do low dammage, even on a kronos is pure crap ( i know from direct experience).
Blasters on the other side have too small range. Train for t2 autocannons and you will never regret it. Autocannons and track enchangers ( + damage mods of course) ALL THE WAY.
This.
Malstorm > Hyp every day, ok he's ugly like all the Minie ships line, made of wood and concrete poo coloured but at least he's efficient. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 11:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: The Djego A gank fitted tach pala(1k+ turret DPS) can do the AE(40 Minutes with looting, skipping bonus room) and guristas assault(30-40 minutes depending on how long you are jammed) you get in amarr space from time to time reasonable quick. It is also a massive improvement over the apoc for the rest of the missions.
Going to skip pala and just go straight for nightmare when the cash starts flowing in, reason being i just prefer to come back with noctis after missions. Can only focus on 1 thing at a time i guess :P. Looks hella sexy though.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.04.05 11:59:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 05/04/2011 12:00:54 I'd strongly suggest a 800mm AC Mael and use that for really short range missions/angels.
As for the Guristas, if its Assault, blitz it and if its something else, try to deny it.
Originally by: Kiteo Hatto
Question to all Mael pilots though, are t2 800s mandatory at the start ? Im thinking of just getting my shield skills up to t2 first hand, but if the autocannon as important as t2 pulses for amarr then i will train for those ASAP.
Thanks again guys.
If you use it for just the short range missions, you can get by with meta 4 ACs. Barrage is pretty useful to use in PvE, but the Apoc will just be a lot better at doing DPS at range, even if you are shooting a sub optimal damage type ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.05 12:16:00 -
[19]
Quote: If you use it for just the short range missions, you can get by with meta 4 ACs. Barrage is pretty useful to use in PvE, but the Apoc will just be a lot better at doing DPS at range, even if you are shooting a sub optimal damage type
Yes this ship be used just to run ae and some gurista missions. Rest will be done in apoc :). Anyone got a starter fit ? I checked evemon and for the one i'd like it would take 63 days or so which isnt a problem, since its mainly just t2 guns. Thoughts on t2 arties and drone types ?
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Valeroth Kyarmentari
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Posted - 2011.04.06 13:39:00 -
[20]
I'll just jump in here at the end and say...
I use a Maelstrom with 800s, with Fusion Ammo, and it rips through them like a knife through butter. A T2 tank is recommended though because most of the big Angel battleships like to get up close and personal.
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Valiermox
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:56:00 -
[21]
I personally used a Maelstrom right up until I got my Rattlesnake (now that is a good boat) and the Mael served me quite well.
In my opinion, you want a cap stable Mael (because using cap boosters really sucks) to tank just about everything. Yes, you don't get damage mods unless your cap skills are very good. I was using this ship at 7mil skillpoints and even still it was quite good.
something like my fit was such:
Lvl 4 Mael, Cap Stable
6X Capacitor mods (the ones that increase recharge rate)
1x XLarge meta 4 shield booster 2x Invuln T2 2x Boost amp 1x cap mod (another cap recharge mod)
8x Meta 4 800mm repeating artillery (had to swap some times for the arties for range)
3x CCCs
5x Hobgoblin II 3x Ogre I
I know that the damage isn't great, mainly cause my cap skills need work but this fit served me well for doing level 4s. That's just my two cents.
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ReVOzE
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Posted - 2011.04.06 21:55:00 -
[22]
For Lvl 4 missions. Get a Tengu. Change missile type according to target type. Done.
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.06 22:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Valiermox I personally used a Maelstrom right up until I got my Rattlesnake (now that is a good boat) and the Mael served me quite well.
In my opinion, you want a cap stable Mael (because using cap boosters really sucks) to tank just about everything. Yes, you don't get damage mods unless your cap skills are very good. I was using this ship at 7mil skillpoints and even still it was quite good.
something like my fit was such:
Lvl 4 Mael, Cap Stable
6X Capacitor mods (the ones that increase recharge rate)
1x XLarge meta 4 shield booster 2x Invuln T2 2x Boost amp 1x cap mod (another cap recharge mod)
8x Meta 4 800mm repeating artillery (had to swap some times for the arties for range)
3x CCCs
5x Hobgoblin II 3x Ogre I
I know that the damage isn't great, mainly cause my cap skills need work but this fit served me well for doing level 4s. That's just my two cents.
Thanks for the fit, but i'll adjust it for myself a little bit :).
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Mike712
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Posted - 2011.04.06 23:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kiteo Hatto
Originally by: Valiermox I personally used a Maelstrom right up until I got my Rattlesnake (now that is a good boat) and the Mael served me quite well.
In my opinion, you want a cap stable Mael (because using cap boosters really sucks) to tank just about everything. Yes, you don't get damage mods unless your cap skills are very good. I was using this ship at 7mil skillpoints and even still it was quite good.
something like my fit was such:
Lvl 4 Mael, Cap Stable
6X Capacitor mods (the ones that increase recharge rate)
1x XLarge meta 4 shield booster 2x Invuln T2 2x Boost amp 1x cap mod (another cap recharge mod)
8x Meta 4 800mm repeating artillery (had to swap some times for the arties for range)
3x CCCs
5x Hobgoblin II 3x Ogre I
I know that the damage isn't great, mainly cause my cap skills need work but this fit served me well for doing level 4s. That's just my two cents.
Thanks for the fit, but i'll adjust it for myself a little bit :).
^that loadout is utterly terrible, the mach doesn't even have 8 turret hardpoints so I'm guesing troll. Don't use it whatever you do lol.
[Machariel, Cheap Lv4 Machariel] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Domination 100MN Afterburner Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
^try something like that instead.
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Kiteo Hatto
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.07 04:08:00 -
[25]
Quote: [Maelstrom, Lv4 Maelstrom] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
^try something like that instead.
Thanks, i like this more, but what would i switch for angels ? if anything apart from the guns
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Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.04.07 05:14:00 -
[26]
Hey man, i use my Mael a fair bit, i love it. I will say a few things about it though...
Train Minmatar BS to 4 at least, before you start using it. The extra 7.5% shield boost bonus is very handy.
Forget 1400's. They have less DPS than 1200's, more PG requirement and you waste DPS by obliterating targets. 1200's or 800mm ACs.
Meta 4's are fine as using T2 ammo is counter productive. For long range, use proton ammo against angels.
Consider a MWD. Having one means you should be able to easily dictate range, and minimise the incoming DPS, which in turn, saves you alot of cap from not using the shield booster.
Carry lots of light drones to kill off spider drones quickly. They are the chief enemy of the Maelstrom.
I use the following fit, and have done for a long time:
[Maelstrom, New Setup 2] Tracking Enhancer II Power Diagnostic System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L
Large Projectile Burst Aerator I Large Projectile Locus Coordinator I Large Projectile Locus Coordinator I
Hammerhead I x5 Hobgoblin I x5
The DG booster is a must (or a CL-5 at a pinch), as the lower CPU fitting is a huge advantage. Only fit the T2 guns after you get AC or arty spec to L4, and AWU to 4 or 5. otherwise it is not worth buying and trying to fit them when Meta 4's will do just fine.
Keep in mind the Maelstrom has about 2.5 forms of tanking: 1) Speed 2) shield boosting .5) DPS.
With T2 ACs and fusion ammo, you are gonna annihilate close range angel ships very fast indeed. If incoming fire is too high though, just pulse the MWD once or twice away.
Yes it takes alot of work to use. Yes the Mael does not tank as well as other ships, but it makes Eve alot of fun :)
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Elisa Vilerum
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Posted - 2011.04.07 05:42:00 -
[27]
8x1400mm will **** anything as long as u keep low tracking in check,there is no other weapon that can instant kill npc battleship other than 1400mm, u keep 2 groups of four guns so u can instant kill 2 BC and down every click and u need less tank in general using long range weapons.
8x800mm will bring more dps at somewhat ****'s range(no falloff bonus like mach/varg),but there is many missions that spawn close and ab can help further.
rails/blasters are fail on hype exception would be blaster pvp hype imho.
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Mike712
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Posted - 2011.04.07 11:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kiteo Hatto
Quote: [Maelstrom, Lv4 Maelstrom] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP L
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
^try something like that instead.
Thanks, i like this more, but what would i switch for angels ? if anything apart from the guns
Change the hardeners 2 invunls and 1 EXP is best.
Fit auto's if you like as angels tend to spawn and orbit at close range.
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