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Silver Hair Carson
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Posted - 2011.04.05 09:25:00 -
[1]
Could not find the threadnaught that must exist on the subject.
With the removal of most renter havens and sanctums, I personally can see two long term effects: 1) curbing inflation -> isk rises in value 2) less escalations and more highsec missioning -> deadspace mods rise in value
???????????????
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Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.04.05 09:32:00 -
[2]
People move to better truesec
??????????????
profit
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.04.05 09:33:00 -
[3]
Rise in price of scourge missiles in hisec due to nullsec muppets who don't know how to fly anything else but Drakes.
Buy waffles! -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Silver Hair Carson
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Posted - 2011.04.05 09:34:00 -
[4]
The sanctum spamming carebears will not be accepted in entities holding good truesec, and what are they going to do about it? Fight?
More likely to fall back to highsec or mine.
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Cetus Perle Rote
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Posted - 2011.04.05 14:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Rise in price of scourge missiles in hisec due to nullsec muppets who don't know how to fly anything else but Drakes.
Buy waffles!
I lol'd IRL. Also OP care to explain and or link to these changes? I must be behind atm.
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Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming
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Posted - 2011.04.05 19:27:00 -
[6]
Try the test server.
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Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.04.05 21:54:00 -
[7]
Mission Loot will once again be a source of income, as Null Sec Ex-patriots swarm the Level 4 & 5 mission hubs, demanding that the CSM demand that CCP drastically increase Hi Sec mission loot drops....
Wouldn't that just be... ironic.
-------------------------------------------------------- This space For Rent. |
Machete Visor
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Posted - 2011.04.06 03:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Machete Visor on 06/04/2011 03:46:37 gotta think about everything together...
banned macro-miners and macro-ratters in drone lands = mineral prices up reduced bounties from ratting = slows down inflation increased "value of" mission rewards, lp rewards, mission drops = more people in hisec
pirate faction mods will not increase in value b/c they all have an corresponding module that can be purchased using LP points.
noctis price may go up and with it noxc mineral prices will go up do to reductions in macro ratters and drone refining hulk prices will go up as more people mine due to increased mineral prices in hisec
ship prices will go up (see BC and BS now even)
what happens to t2 production chain? not sure.
additionally, more people are moving to wormholes, despite enhanced sleeper neuting. t3 prices - not sure. there will be some decreased demand for tengus to rat sanctums, but t3 is the pvp choice in whs.
finally, i see the low sec desert area expanded into "high true-sec null-sec" as the masses move deep into null. that may result in more manufacturing in null and less mineral inflow from null. especially if they nerf jumpbridges at the same time.
so everything is pointing to increased mineral prices. the only offset is if less people play.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.06 05:04:00 -
[9]
With less bounties in nul, carebears will move back to hisec to make money, and thus there will be more folks earning mission rewards. Increase in supply = drop in prices. On the flip side, more missioners means more demand for said items. So perhaps there will be balance there.
Pirate faction stuff will have a slight increase in value as less nul bears means less faction mods getting dropped. However, most of those come from plexes and belt faction spawns, rather than sanctum and haven faction spawns.
Following that, those that stay will pick up belt ratting again, thus producing more drops of dread items. So short term drop in supply, followed by a resumption of supply. We may see a temporary spike in pirate faction loot.
Less sanctums+havens means less demand for salvaging in nul. Demand for noctis will drop. The same movement of players may result in an increase in Noctis demand in hisec. So overall a balance there. But a definite regional shift. If you have a nul-sec hauling alt, I sense some isk-making opportunities
The banning of a thousand bots is not a big deal. However the loss of hi end drone anoms will result in less minerals being available in drone lands. Coupled with the long-term invasion plans of DRF into Geminate, we should see a definite spike in low end mineral demands, unless they call off the invasion. A smaller spike if they do. ABCs come from nul, so you won't see as much change there. (Chribba will be pleased.)
On a side note, NC does not rely on havens/sanctums for minerals. We trade moongoo for mins. Since moongoo is not getting nerfed, NC should see a delayed effect on mineral prices, and thus local production should stay nominally steady until the isk issue starts to affect prices.
DRF on the other hand relies more heavily on drone alloys for mins and will suffer a direct impact on their local production capacity until they can switch over to mining or trade of other commodities.
To sum it up, both sides will suffer a loss of income. DRF can compensate over time, though it will be a slowe recovery. NC will suffer more over time as the isk loss is permanent and cannot be compensated for easily. NC may have to resort to more mining to compensate, or alliances will have to start spreading some of that moon goo jew juice around.
With increased prices of minerals, we will see an increase in cost of ships. With less isk from nul, this will hurt nul-sec players even more. So I'm thinking I agree there will be an increase in demand for locally produced low end minerals in nul. More Hulks and other miners will be needed. Higher hulk prices.
T2 shouldn't see much change as by far the highest part of the cost is moon goo components, which (as far as we know) will not be touched by this change.
"moon goo jew juice", lolz.
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.06 05:08:00 -
[10]
doubel post sorry, but was running out of space.
Boy am I glad I didn't buy that raven up in Vale the other day. Prices on PvE stuff were already dropping. Now they should totally crash. Betting there's gonna be some serious fire sales going on.
Jump freighter alts, be prepared. Your services will be in demand as stuff moves back to hi sec.
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Misty McGinnity
Mystify Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.04.06 05:18:00 -
[11]
i think you idiots are greatly over estimating the "nerf"
No-one is gonna move back to hi sec coz of a few less sanctums being spawned, get a grip. ppl whinge about alot of stuff, personally, i can't wait until our FC takes us to get lots of bear killmails in the right trusec systems ;)
if income is seriously lost, a high sec jump clone + cheap T2 BS + Level 4 agent = profit. no-one's gonna move **** from nullsec to high sec for the sake of 2-3 less sanctums spawned when 1-2 jumps over its all gravy + theres still plenty of belt rats & faction spawns.
/thread
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Kairi Black
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Posted - 2011.04.06 07:01:00 -
[12]
I expect an increase in HS ganking, more kills initially in 0.0 because better true sec areas will be camped, and 0.0 residents will find more alternative ways of making money. At the same time ship prices will likely increase a bit from the initial losses.
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Florestan Bronstein
Element 115. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.04.06 07:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 06/04/2011 07:26:18
New deadspace loot from DED plexes could potentially lead to some changes on the market for existing faction/officer items (imagine if CCP introduced a deadspace invulnerability field).
Less Sanctums/Havens could lead to more people running DED plexes, Radar sites or c1/c2/c3 whs that happen to open in their space. Or to *gasp* people actually utilizing the pirate agents in nearby NPC 0.0 .
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.06 08:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Misty McGinnity i think you idiots are greatly over estimating the "nerf"
No-one is gonna move back to hi sec coz of a few less sanctums being spawned, get a grip. ppl whinge about alot of stuff, personally, i can't wait until our FC takes us to get lots of bear killmails in the right trusec systems ;)
if income is seriously lost, a high sec jump clone + cheap T2 BS + Level 4 agent = profit. no-one's gonna move **** from nullsec to high sec for the sake of 2-3 less sanctums spawned when 1-2 jumps over its all gravy + theres still plenty of belt rats & faction spawns.
/thread
If you're gonna come in here and call people names just because you disagree, then leave now and never come back. A few less? 1 to 2 jumps? Why do I feel like you have no idea how widespread this effect is, have never even looked at a map of any nul-sec region, nor read the relevant dev blog? Cheap T2 BS? No such thing. Do you even play this game?
Also, I doubt you will be going anywhere in nul, as you have no combat record on either BC or eve-kill. (trade alt?)
Every nul-sec system that has true-sec of less than -.25 is going to lose all its havens and sanctums, even with level 5 upgrades and level 5 combat index. A system that could support 4-8 full time sanctums runners will be doing jack all for anybody unless it has a significant number of belts. No one but noobs are going to run Hubs. The isk return barely covers the ammo.
Briefly, there will be 5 bands split pretty evenly as far as true-sec goes. However, nul-sec is not evenly divided by true-sec. Disclaimer: the following percentages vary from region to region. About half of all nul is in the first and now poorest band. The next 15% is going to lose all but 1 haven, according to reports I have received. The next band is about 10% of nul, and will lose 1 sanctum. The next band is due to receive one additional haven, and the next and highest band is due to receive one each haven and sanctum.
All the losses together are 100% of 50% (50%), 75% of the next 20% (15%), and 25% of the next 15% (3.75%), for a total loss of 68.75% of all havens and sanctums.
The gains will be +25% in 10% of space (+12.5%) and +50% in 5% (+7.5%), for a total gain of 20%.
So the net result is a loss of 48.75% of all high-end anomalies, nearly half of the possible total. Furthermore, most of those gains are going to be concentrated in a specific few systems, resulting in a clarion call for covert bombers and BO hotdrops, making using these "improvements" much more difficult, and thus further degrading the usefulness of anomalies for isk-making. (Not a whine, just saying if you're a stealth bomber pilot and all you have to do to figure out where to get juicy kills is look at true-sec on dotlan, wouldn't you?)
Sure you can run a hisec alt to mission. If you have multiple accounts, then you can mission and fly in fleets at the same time, as discouraged as that is. (Something about dividing your attention and fail-warping/jumping, that sort of thing.) If not and there's a CTA, you're screwed, and when you tell your CEO or Alliance executor "Sorry I can't help retake system-x because I'm missioning in hisec", there will be raging. Privateers, Orphanage, and such will also love the influx of easy war targets.
This WILL put a serious dent in nul-sec PvPers' ability to make isk for combat ships. My post was only meant to highlight my opinion regarding some of the market trends likely to arise from the anom nerf. But when uninformed bozos come on and start talking out their ass, I get a little emo.
/rant
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Silver Hair Carson
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Posted - 2011.04.06 09:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Soldarius
Originally by: Misty McGinnity i think you idiots are greatly over estimating the "nerf" [:troll:]
No-one is gonna move back to hi sec coz of a few less sanctums being spawned, get a grip. ppl whinge about alot of stuff, personally, i can't wait until our FC takes us to get lots of bear killmails in the right trusec systems ;)
if income is seriously lost, a high sec jump clone + cheap T2 BS + Level 4 agent = profit. no-one's gonna move **** from nullsec to high sec for the sake of 2-3 less sanctums spawned when 1-2 jumps over its all gravy [:troll:] + theres still plenty of belt rats & faction spawns.
/thread
<trolled to write a pretty good post>
/rant
Good insight soldarius, being on the DRF side I can concur the changes are going to hurt renters immensely. Personally seen 20+ machariels and countless marauders setting up for move to highsec from our station.
The funny thing about it is that this all could have been solved reasonably by putting a respawn timer on havens and sanctums, let's say 5 hours or faster depending on truesec, with +- 1 hour randomly. Would not be that harsh on everyone who upgraded bad systems earlier :)
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enterprisePSI
Unimatrix 0.1
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Posted - 2011.04.06 09:33:00 -
[16]
I predict a riot.
The Pod Log. ||| I MADE TWEET Y U NO FOLLOW!? |
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.04.06 10:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Soldarius
Originally by: Misty McGinnity i think you idiots are greatly over estimating the "nerf"
No-one is gonna move back to hi sec coz of a few less sanctums being spawned, get a grip. ppl whinge about alot of stuff, personally, i can't wait until our FC takes us to get lots of bear killmails in the right trusec systems ;)
if income is seriously lost, a high sec jump clone + cheap T2 BS + Level 4 agent = profit. no-one's gonna move **** from nullsec to high sec for the sake of 2-3 less sanctums spawned when 1-2 jumps over its all gravy + theres still plenty of belt rats & faction spawns.
/thread
If you're gonna come in here and call people names just because you disagree, then leave now and never come back.
/rant
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Florestan Bronstein
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.04.06 10:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Silver Hair Carson Could not find the threadnaught that must exist on the subject.
Linkage 98 pages and counting
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flakeys
The Great cornholio's
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Posted - 2011.04.06 14:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Misty McGinnity i think you are greatly over estimating the "nerf"
No-one is gonna move back to hi sec coz of a few less sanctums being spawned, get a grip. ppl whinge about alot of stuff
Probably the first time i agree with you
The only ones who move back are the true carebears who are only there for iskgrinding all day and never help a hand with territorial defences etc wich according to allmost every alliance is a kind they rather not have.
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Von Kroll
Caldari Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2011.04.06 16:07:00 -
[20]
One of the beauties of "old" Providence was that it was basically worthless to any of the major power blocks, and thus, was the breeding ground for CVA and everything it achieved out there. Back when I was in Paxton, we theorized what the long term affects of system improvements would be, and some of us felt that they portended bad things. Obviously the war didn't start over that, but the long-term value of that region improved tremendously once system improvements made it just as valuable as low true-sec systems, with respect to mining and anomolies.
This "nerf" will hopefully benefit those that are interested in such future enterprises by like-minded players/corps/alliances, getting rid of the feudalism that helps compliment the major power blocks' isk-geyser that is moon goo.
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Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2011.04.06 22:43:00 -
[21]
Looked at independant of all other factors, the reduction of Sanctums/havens should cause a decrease in isk generation simply through bounties. If this is coupled with less null sec ship losses you may also see a reduction of insurance payouts. This would cause some level of deflation across the market as a whole. This may be balanced by also reducing Isk sinks such as those involved in sov structures/upgrades, but I doubt it.
So, holistically there will be deflation. How much is hard to tell because it's hard to know how much ISK generation has been slowed.
The one place I would expect to see it most clearly will be in the Plex market, and, following the general consensus that prices are inflated due to excessive isk supply (which I actually disagree with but I am a bit space rich) will push down plex prices. May be hard to draw causality there though depending on the effectiveness of the bot banning which could have a similar effect. Only counter to that effect will be the thousands of whiny bears who make a good chunk of the demand in the plex market following through on their super cereal promises and emoragequitting. But, that would require me to bet on a weak willed junky quiting ****** because the dealer increased the price.
So generlly my guess is that Plex is going to see some downward adjustment
As for the mineral/goo/derivatives markets? I'm not going to guess at those as there are far too many convoluting factors at play. Be interesting to see as only time will tell. Should take about 2 months to clear the speculation and determine the real effects.
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.04.07 12:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Arnakoz on 07/04/2011 12:11:42
Originally by: Misty McGinnity i think you idiots are greatly over estimating the "nerf"
No-one is gonna move back to hi sec coz of a few less sanctums being spawned, get a grip. ppl whinge about alot of stuff, personally, i can't wait until our FC takes us to get lots of bear killmails in the right trusec systems ;)
if income is seriously lost, a high sec jump clone + cheap T2 BS + Level 4 agent = profit. no-one's gonna move **** from nullsec to high sec for the sake of 2-3 less sanctums spawned when 1-2 jumps over its all gravy + theres still plenty of belt rats & faction spawns.
/thread
meh, its not less sanctums. its NO sanctums. 0.0 to -0.4 will have only frig and cruiser level rats. basically akin to running level 3's. and everyone jumping back to hisec to earn income is EXACTLY what the fear is here.
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clixor
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Posted - 2011.04.07 12:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arnakoz Edited by: Arnakoz on 07/04/2011 12:11:42 and everyone jumping back to hisec to earn income is EXACTLY what the fear is here.
Fear for whom exactly? These guy are running 99% safe in 0.0 and will start to run 99.9% safe in hi-sec. I don't see much of a difference tbh.
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