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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:36:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Helicity Boson The degree to which this last fiasco has eroded my will to play is staggering. I'm no longer sure I want to put effort into blogging about this game, I'm no longer sure I want to put in months of effort to organize one of (if not the) biggest player run events in MMO land twice a year.
This is all so very ****ed, I want to love this game and company so much, but they are making it so very very hard to do.
The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran; the ongoing evolution of Eve Online's core player base into a disenfranchised group of customers and ex-customers who have had their enthusiasm for EVE Online chiseled away one little piece at a time by a continuous chain of failure to deliver on customer expectations for product quality. It is the dawning awareness that CCP cannot be trusted to deliver on their product's potential that creates the Bitter Vet, and as indicated by the deafening silence from CCP's free advertising, publishing and public awareness arm of core customers, a great many new Bitter Veterans were born into the world last weekend.
EVE, like any game, needs a strong core usergroup which sticks around far beyond the typical retention timeline. Every service model game that focuses on being an immersive sandbox requires makers and shakers, just like CCP said at Fanfest during the discussions of the cases of EVE and Dust 514, and the commercial focus of Dust 514. Just the idea of letting core user groups develop a subscriber addiction curve into bitterness and disenfranchisement is anathema to the continuity of the product dynamic. Yes, customers and core users can be replaced, but at an ever increasing cost of acquisition and with a growing necessity to compensate for the loss of publicity trends and events that were formerly created by the core groups of users.
And it is becoming ever harder to trust you to do something about it; everywhere we look we see in the media more and more messages of incompetence, more and more about the huge gaps between what CCP presents and what it delivers. I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE, because these disparities are what they see on the internet when they start looking at the game.
You are not the celebrity in this endeavor, CCP. EVE Online is the celebrity. Yes, we love and respect you for what you made. But Eve Online is at the point where your core community of customers and the image of the game on the internet are facing a serious challenge in perception. The reason why your core user groups are here is because they chose EVE Online as a mutually enjoyed rallying point; we did not choose the company as a rallying point. But, for the foreseeable future, we're stuck with you, CCP, until the game and intellectual property become fodder for an Electronic Arts buyout, which is something that has, unfortunately, already been on the table once . If we could get Eve Online away from your well earned reputation for incompetence and the inevitable Kiss of Death Buyout from Electronic Arts that will turn Eve Online into World of Warcraft in Space, we'd do it in a heartbeat.
But I am still here. Like many others, I haven't given up on the potential that EVE Online still has. I, like many others, haven't given up hope that EVE Online can become the all encompassing science fiction simulator that CCP wants the game to become. But with each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence, and each expansion's worth of continued neglect of the core dynamic that has kept the core customer base here, that glimmer of hope becomes dimmer and dimmer. Please, CCP; wake up before it's too late. Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people in internet spaceships.
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Sarmatiko
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:39:00 -
[2]
Too many letters. In conclusion, can I have your assets?
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sarmatiko Too many letters. In conclusion, can I have your assets?
This is why you should read people's posts before asking for people's stuff.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people in internet spaceships.
OP confirmed for incarna hater. -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link? |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sarmatiko Too many letters. In conclusion, can I have your assets?
Was worth reading tho.
I too, want his stuff. -
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RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:48:00 -
[6]
I too know where Evelgrivion lives. and I want his stuffs however I don't think I'm going to get it as he's not going +1
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Sarmatiko Too many letters. In conclusion, can I have your assets?
This is why you should read people's posts before asking for people's stuff.
My brainstem tripped over the title and still hasn't recovered.
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Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:51:00 -
[8]
My first thought was "TLDR" but that was actually very well written, and you make some strong points.
Hang on to your stuff.
Who knows maybe CCP will get the message.
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Weirdo Asylum
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Posted - 2011.04.11 15:58:00 -
[9]
Constructive and well written. We need less wines and more good posts like this...
+1 |
Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DeBingJos Constructive and well written. We need less wines and more good posts like this...
+1
^^This^^, although I think you mean whines...
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Weirdo Asylum
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia
Originally by: DeBingJos Constructive and well written. We need less wines and more good posts like this...
+1
^^This^^, although I think you mean whines...
Yes, more wine and less whine!
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:22:00 -
[12]
Wait.... what?
Quote: The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran
So you are upset that the new forums hiccuped?
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:25:00 -
[13]
well said.
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:26:00 -
[14]
Evelgrivion makes an excellent post as usual. This is getting ridiculous. Its most of the way through Monday now. Does Hilmar not glance at the forums anymore?
Nikita's Graphic Arts Studio
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Reyold Bengali
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:26:00 -
[15]
Well thought out and presented, and with exceptionally good points. Definitely worth the time spent reading it. ------- Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Evelgrivion disparities [...between...] what they see on the internet when they start looking at the game.
+1 for the OP in general, and another +1 for the above snippet.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana Evelgrivion makes an excellent post as usual. This is getting ridiculous. Its most of the way through Monday now. Does Hilmar not glance at the forums anymore?
I am hoping that someone monitoring the forums will notice the spike in the "whine index" and, hopfully get it across, but since I have lost faith in CCP I am not very optimistic. The least we can do is keep bumping them to fill the GD with tears and hope CCP will notice the damp.
Another well written post OP.
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Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Wait.... what?
Quote: The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran
So you are upset that the new forums hiccuped?
If by "hiccuped" you mean "had a massive security flaw," then yes.
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2011.04.11 16:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
And it is becoming ever harder to trust you to do something about it; everywhere we look we see in the media more and more messages of incompetence, more and more about the huge gaps between what CCP presents and what it delivers. I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE, because these disparities are what they see on the internet when they start looking at the game.
Well written post but that little gem above pretty much sums up a growing concern of mine. While "A Future Vision" is neat little video, does anyone really think that CCP as it exists today could ever deliver it or even come close? When you release these types of videos, marketing hype, and fail to deliver anything close to the original hype you lose creditability. Can you honestly say that CQ is going to live up to the hype of the WIS videos from Fanfest '08? Did PI or Nullsec sovereignty changes?
While there is always some part of an expansion I enjoy nothing has really blown me away since Apocrypha. Did the talent that spearheaded Apocrypha leave the company? Is there some conflict within the organization where resources are constantly being moved about to support your various projects? If I can see it breaking down on a customer level I can't even imagine what it's like within the organization.
There is no Dust or WOD, EVE Online is papa so my suggestion is to HTFU and take care of him before he brings the whole family down.
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2011.04.11 17:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore There is no Dust or WOD, EVE Online is papa so my suggestion is to HTFU and take care of him before he brings the whole family down.
CARBON >> all.
CCP Carbonfest when? -- Did you know there's an alliance who's name you're not allowed to say, or website you're not allowed to link? |
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.11 17:02:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Rikki Sals on 11/04/2011 17:02:37 Good post!
Forums are one of the first places I look when trying to size up the health of an MMO/its community. This MMO has started to look more and more sickly. The community itself is better than many, but the disparity between that and the parent company is widening.
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Eladaris
Amarr Excessum Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:21:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Eladaris on 11/04/2011 18:22:42 Excellent post Evelgrivion, the forum hiccup was just embarrassing and I'm surprised the gaping security holes haven't been latched onto by the larger media.
Excellent way for CCP to showcase multiple issues all at once though:
Ignoring all bug reports from their playerbase: CHECK! Wasting their time working on half-assed features: CHECK! Not really taking the time to look fully into potential problems in favor of new shinies: CHECK!
And of course... the kicker... lying to the community and claiming the forums were totally an in-house 1year long project.
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:27:00 -
[23]
tl;dr Forum rollout didn't go as planned, therefore EVE is broken and going to be bought by EA
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
But I am still here. Like many others, I haven't given up on the potential that EVE Online still has. I, like many others, haven't given up hope that EVE Online can become the all encompassing science fiction simulator that CCP wants the game to become. But with each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence, and each expansion's worth of continued neglect of the core dynamic that has kept the core customer base here, that glimmer of hope becomes dimmer and dimmer. Please, CCP; wake up before it's too late. Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people in internet spaceships.
Well said. +1
Im still here too, but not for much longer unless they turn this boat and make some serious changes.
I too wonder what the word would be like from the viewpoint of the average non-web (grunt) coder. How frustrated are they? Why do these problems keep occurring? What management/process changes occurred which have lead us in this direction?
How I wish they could talk without being monitored/censored by their bosses...then perhaps we could start to get to the bottom of what is happening.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 11/04/2011 18:46:37
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Ranger 1 Wait.... what?
Quote: The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran
So you are upset that the new forums hiccuped?
If by "hiccuped" you mean "had a massive security flaw," then yes.
Ah, I see.
Remind me, were we talking about the EVE forums or Scrapheap Challenge?
Must be the EVE forums, as only CCP is accused of being incompetent, insensitive, and ignoring their customers after having their security come under attack.
Edit: Perhaps I should be more clear.
When was the last time the EVE forums suffered "security issues"?
The answer is right after the first big botter purge.
It's interesting that this occurs right after the start of another (sucessful) purge, it's simply not limited to the main forums but related forums as well this time.
Food for thought.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Evelgrivion [...stuffs...]
+1
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.04.11 18:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
But I am still here. Like many others, I haven't given up on the potential that EVE Online still has. I, like many others, haven't given up hope that EVE Online can become the all encompassing science fiction simulator that CCP wants the game to become.
*Raises glass* AYEEEEeearr..
I dont mind moving to new forums really, I approve of several things in the last incursion patch. Im here to play Eve. I just want to avoid such trainwrecks like the new forums with blatant disregard for safety measures and good practise. Thats why people voice out, to avoid anything worse. I trust the new forums will be on drydock for a long while. And next time with some extra testing done.
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Titus Phook
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Posted - 2011.04.11 19:02:00 -
[28]
Well said Evelgrivion. The core of players who have stuck with Eve for good or bad, who go out of their way to create interesting and engaging content, promote Eve and the dark universe that it presents in blog posts are the lifeblood of the game.
Without this core Eve becomes just another MMO that may as well have been produced by ,god forbid, the likes of EA.
CCP creates the framework and basic content, the community creates all the devious, backstabbing, doubledealing shenanigans that attract headlines in the gaming press. ---------------------------------------------
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.11 19:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Evelgrivion stuff
I quite liked your post till you reach this bit:
Originally by: Evelgrivion Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people in internet spaceships.
I.. kinda disagree. it should be Originally by: Evelgrivion Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people
I can say that, as a so called "bitter vet" am only bitter at the fact that CCP fails to keep with their "quality" and "excellence".
while new content and change are welcome to this game, the fact that CCP lately has started to deliver content that lacks "quality" and "excellence" begs to question if they shouldn't slow down a bit and start to do some fixing that needs to be done. There is quite a huge quantity of currently available content in this game that, when improved, can be sold as "new" and "shiny". ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.12 00:27:00 -
[30]
Eve is esstenially a social network.
1% are content creators. 25% are hub people. The rest are churners.
CCP has driven out the vast majority of the 1% and 25% people in their quest for record subscriber numbers.
By focusing on the 7 month churners to the exclusion of existing customers, CCP has managed to basically destroy the very foundation of their social network.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
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