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Trader20
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Posted - 2011.04.12 00:38:00 -
[31]
Yea i agree with him CCP, microtransactions are the best way to go.
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FeralShadow
RipStar. United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.12 00:48:00 -
[32]
Really, the last time i was completely blown away by new content was when the graphics were upgraded. Can we get another one of those please? _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
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Barbens
New Eden Industrial Services
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Posted - 2011.04.12 00:59:00 -
[33]
You're really whining about the forums?
What about downtimes that would stretch on for a week or more? Making bookmarks behind gates, because WTZ didn't exist yet How about losing 10 controllable drones on Vexors, Domis,etc.
The forums? Are you serious? They'll be back unlike the cool **** they've removed and that is gone forever.
Chill...
Barbs
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TigerXtrm
APEX ARDENT COALITION
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:30:00 -
[34]
If a security breach of the forum, not even the game itself, is reason for people to quit the game then please get the **** out before the rest of the community chases you out. It's internet spaceships. If you take it that serious it's about TIME you actually quit and get the **** outside your own house and taste some fresh air.
Some people... jeez.
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Julyan Fox
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:51:00 -
[35]
Play the game, not the forum. There were some bugs, that kind of stuff happens, live with it. If you are not happy just don't use the product, others will do.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: TigerXtrm It's internet spaceships.
Tell that to CCP. CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.12 02:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: TigerXtrm If a security breach of the forum, not even the game itself, is reason for people to quit the game then please get the **** out before the rest of the community chases you out. It's internet spaceships. If you take it that serious it's about TIME you actually quit and get the **** outside your own house and taste some fresh air.
Some people... jeez.
it's.. really more than that
first, the forums are an integral part of the game, no matter what you think. EVE's ingame pvp does ecalate to the forums quite regularly and with ease.
second, this issue was, for many people, the proverbial straw (more like the 2x4, but that's a personal view) that broke the camel's back, because it was the culmination of an ongoing decrease of quality on content release from the part of CCP. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.04.12 06:05:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Eve is esstenially a social network.
1% are content creators. 25% are hub people. The rest are churners.
CCP has driven out the vast majority of the 1% and 25% people in their quest for record subscriber numbers.
By focusing on the 7 month churners to the exclusion of existing customers, CCP has managed to basically destroy the very foundation of their social network.
Your numbers are probably way off, but for once, I'm agreeing with your basic diagnose. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Aldo Bridger
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Posted - 2011.04.12 06:35:00 -
[39]
I think this "latest fiasco," simply shows just how many vets are simply playing eveforums online these days (and probably have been for some time). That in an of itself shows the litany of loose-ends still out there and keeping people from enjoying the game.
IMHO priority number one should be to bring these damn ships into a semblance of balance. Projecties and supercaps online is very stale. Very few of the remaining problems have such a wide-ranging (negative) effect on the game.
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Lusulpher
Sinister Elite
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Posted - 2011.04.14 10:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hieronimus Rex
Originally by: Ranger 1 Wait.... what?
Quote: The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran
So you are upset that the new forums hiccuped?
If by "hiccuped" you mean "had a massive security flaw," then yes.
#NotIntendedAsActualSecurityProtocolOrQualityAssurance
CCP and American politics parallel so hard, they should go perpendicular. And ream each other in the ass. Creative Customer Person 7 |
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Sartorami
Minmatar Roid Runners Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.04.17 06:11:00 -
[41]
As the PVP-goons often claimed in the past; it's in adversity one grows strong. Well, this is -real life- adversity. Should that make it different? Nope. CCP making the odd mis-step/mistake won't kill the game. Players leaving for bull**** reasons will. I hardly do anything in-game anymore, but I keep my skill-queue working, and keep my four accounts running and paying in wait for what I know the game can become, if we only give it time...and I'm not taking the next six months. I'm talking the next 6 years, at the very least. And if I ever actually quit all my subs and never return, it will be strictly because EVE has shut down and died for good, or because senility strips it from my memory.
As a side-note, it probably helps that, barring the PVP-thing, EVE's my dream game as-is. Anything else will only be a bonus.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.04.17 09:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Evelgrivion Edited by: Evelgrivion on 11/04/2011 16:28:08
Originally by: Helicity Boson The degree to which this last fiasco has eroded my will to play is staggering. I'm no longer sure I want to put effort into blogging about this game, I'm no longer sure I want to put in months of effort to organize one of (if not the) biggest player run events in MMO land twice a year.
This is all so very ****ed, I want to love this game and company so much, but they are making it so very very hard to do.
The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran; the ongoing evolution of Eve Online's core player base into a disenfranchised group of customers and ex-customers who have had their enthusiasm for EVE Online chiseled away one little piece at a time by a continuous chain of failure to deliver on customer expectations for product quality. It is the dawning awareness that CCP cannot be trusted to deliver on their product's potential that creates the Bitter Vet, and as indicated by the deafening silence from CCP's free advertising, publishing and public awareness arm of core customers, a great many new Bitter Veterans were born into the world last weekend.
EVE, like any game, needs a strong core usergroup which sticks around far beyond the typical retention timeline. Every service model game that focuses on being an immersive sandbox requires makers and shakers, just like CCP said at Fanfest during the discussions of the cases of EVE and Dust 514, and the commercial focus of Dust 514. Just the idea of letting core user groups develop a subscriber addiction curve into bitterness and disenfranchisement is anathema to the continuity of the product dynamic. Yes, customers and core users can be replaced, but at an ever increasing cost of acquisition and with a growing necessity to compensate for the loss of publicity trends and events that were formerly created by the core groups of users.
And it is becoming ever harder to trust you to do something about it; everywhere we look we see in the media more and more messages of incompetence, more and more about the huge gaps between what CCP presents and what it delivers. I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE, because these disparities are what they see on the internet when they start looking at the game.
You are not the celebrity in this endeavor, CCP. EVE Online is the celebrity. Yes, we love and respect you for what you made. But Eve Online is at the point where your core community of customers and the image of the game on the internet are facing a serious challenge in perception. The reason why your core user groups are here is because they chose EVE Online as a mutually enjoyed rallying point; we did not choose the company as a rallying point. But, for the foreseeable future, we're stuck with you, CCP, until the game and intellectual property become fodder for an Electronic Arts buyout, which is something that has, unfortunately, already been on the table once . If we could get Eve Online away from your well earned reputation for incompetence and the inevitable Kiss of Death Buyout from Electronic Arts that will turn Eve Online into World of Warcraft in Space, we'd do it in a heartbeat.
But I am still here. Like many others, I haven't given up on the potential that EVE Online still has. I, like many others, haven't given up hope that EVE Online can become the all encompassing science fiction simulator that CCP wants the game to become. But with each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence, and each expansion's worth of continued neglect of the core dynamic that has kept the core customer base here, that glimmer of hope becomes dimmer and dimmer. Please, CCP; wake up before it's too late. Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people in internet spaceships.
I hate to have to do this: +Like
Retro sig |
Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Amarrian Veterans Guild
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Posted - 2011.04.17 09:41:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith Eve is esstenially a social network.
1% are content creators. 25% are hub people. The rest are churners.
CCP has driven out the vast majority of the 1% and 25% people in their quest for record subscriber numbers.
By focusing on the 7 month churners to the exclusion of existing customers, CCP has managed to basically destroy the very foundation of their social network.
^^This, haven't really played EVE for the last six months or so, just log on to change skills, really hoping CCP can sort the game out.
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TravisWB
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Posted - 2011.04.17 13:30:00 -
[44]
When the avatars begin walking EVE=WOW in space. Maybe with some Call of Duty mixed in?
When that happens it is goodbye for a lot of players, no doubt. Probably the majority of "core" players will leave.
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Embrace My Hate
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
And it is becoming ever harder to trust you to do something about it; everywhere we look we see in the media more and more messages of incompetence, more and more about the huge gaps between what CCP presents and what it delivers. I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE, because these disparities are what they see on the internet when they start looking at the game.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know anybody in Real Life that plays eve. Every time I play friends videos of the game they have high hopes which quickly erode during the trial period.
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TravisWB
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Embrace My Hate
Originally by: Evelgrivion
And it is becoming ever harder to trust you to do something about it; everywhere we look we see in the media more and more messages of incompetence, more and more about the huge gaps between what CCP presents and what it delivers. I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE, because these disparities are what they see on the internet when they start looking at the game.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know anybody in Real Life that plays eve. Every time I play friends videos of the game they have high hopes which quickly erode during the trial period.
LOL, for sure. The adverts for this game and the reality of the game are one of the more epic examples of bogus advertizing.
Also, somehow pod pilots, which are actual cybernetic biological goo dwellers able to single handedly pilot massive ships, are now getting all pretty with no visible implants.
With the pretty and soon to be walking avatars should come a new reality for the game. As in the biggest ship a pretty avatar should be able to fly is a frigate and an end to either Empire space or an end to null space. Preferably an end to null, cause it is null that is ruining this game.
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The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: TravisWB When the avatars begin walking EVE=WOW in space. Maybe with some Call of Duty mixed in?
When that happens it is goodbye for a lot of players, no doubt. Probably the majority of "core" players will leave.
You're SO wrong. I'll still be flying internet spaceships, happy to let others play shoot-em-up planetside.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.17 14:44:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Grimpak on 17/04/2011 14:44:14
Originally by: The Old Chap
Originally by: TravisWB When the avatars begin walking EVE=WOW in space. Maybe with some Call of Duty mixed in?
When that happens it is goodbye for a lot of players, no doubt. Probably the majority of "core" players will leave.
You're SO wrong. I'll still be flying internet spaceships, happy to let others play shoot-em-up planetside while I push a big red button and dust the site from orbit.
fyp...
well one can hope so ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Ada Tora
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Posted - 2011.04.17 15:52:00 -
[49]
I really liked the game as it was before PI. It fit a niche that no one else could fit, and for the most part, still does. It needed work to flesh out the framework, but a competent company could easily do that in a short period of time.
However, CCP is not that company. Unfortunately, those of us who are not on the inside will never know whether the fault lies with the employees or the management. Coming from the trenches of IT, and having seen really stupid decisions being made by management who only care about padding their resume and moving on to the next big thing, I'm inclined to believe management is playing a large part in screwing up this game. But none of us can really know for certain.
My hope is that the game is sold to a company who recognizes where EVE fits in the gaming market and doesn't try to make it be what it is not, but who instead capitalizes on what makes EVE great.
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Teranul
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Posted - 2011.04.17 15:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ada Tora I really liked the game as it was before PI. It fit a niche that no one else could fit, and for the most part, still does. It needed work to flesh out the framework, but a competent company could easily do that in a short period of time.
I will resist the urge to insult your intelligence and instead point you at the myriad MMO developers who are all infinitely worse than CCP.
In fact, there is no other company that has as many people working on an ongoing MMO than CCP. Other companies frequently perform yearly paid expansions with even less content, or don't release expansions at all. The only company I am inclined to think of as even comparable to CCP in any way is Arenanet, but Guild Wars is barely even something you could call an MMO to begin with.
I can only wonder what your "dream company" could possibly be. Blizzard? Do we really want WoW in space? Valve? They have a hard enough time as it is creating content for shooters, I can't even imagine them supporting a game of this scale. Bioware? OHWAIT! Sony? NCSoft? Cryptic? Funcom? Turbine?
I mean... seriously? You've got some serious disconnects from reality, I think.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.04.17 16:43:00 -
[51]
CCP, you're wrong.
Polished quality not only sells, polished quality retains.
Deliver polished quality. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Ada Tora
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Posted - 2011.04.17 16:52:00 -
[52]
Hmm, struck a nerve with management?
If you are CCP management, take off the blinders for a moment and look at all the people around you who are posting similar sentiments. Look at the high-profile personalities who have become disheartened, some to the point of leaving. I admit that I'm a nobody, but you're losing the hearts people who have been here for years.
New and shiny will attract the shallow people, but EVE is a niche game. You won't keep those shallow people who are always chasing the next shiny. You need to hold onto your dedicated players, the ones who have been here for years, the ones who promote your game to their friends and win a convert one at a time ... the ones you're driving away.
It's not too late, but the door is closing. Please?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Teranul I will resist the urge to insult your intelligence and instead point you at the myriad MMO developers who are all infinitely worse than CCP.
So by your example, just because other people suck badly it is okay to stick with someone who sucks less. It's a flawed argument. CCP has delivered good content; CCP can deliver good content; CCP just does not deliver right now. Without positive and negative feedback from its customers CCP would be even more lost than it currently is right now. So, do not think everyone is all emoragequitting. It is not even emoraging. Each person is simply expressing a valuable insight into one (or more) customer's expectation and (dis)satisfaction levels. As to supporting CCP over and above all the others: I pay CCP for a game. I do not pay them. Egocentrically, of course all others are worse, they don't have me as a customer to make them better.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Adacia Calla
Minmatar Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:34:00 -
[54]
Cry more? I've played EVE for 7 years, and I'll play it for another 7 regardless of CCP ****ing up a forum release.
Someone needs to chill out a bit.
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Doc Fury
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:36:00 -
[55]
Maybe if the management at CCP were not always so busy patting themselves on the back as usual before deploying mediocre deliverables? That would be a good start in managing what they perceive as out-of-sync customer expectations.
Sometimes the only reason I come back to EVE at all is to see just how badly CCP can fark things-up right after telling everyone how awesome & excellent they are. Most of the good longtime players I knew and respected are gone, the "last straw" being the common thread in any parting comments.
Smart companies in this industry have been watching CCP closely, and the smartest ones are using them as a model for what not to do.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:45:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris CCP, you're wrong.
Polished quality not only sells, polished quality retains.
Deliver polished quality.
CCP gave up on retention. They lost faith in their own product.
They believe it isn't good enough to bother playing past 7 months and therefore they should only focus on making sure new subscribers retain at least that long. Any longer and they become a hinderance with their demands for bug fixes.
Originally by: Ada Tora
New and shiny will attract the shallow people, but EVE is a niche game. You won't keep those shallow people who are always chasing the next shiny. You need to hold onto your dedicated players, the ones who have been here for years, the ones who promote your game to their friends and win a convert one at a time ... the ones you're driving away.
CCP has no idea what a niche product is or how valuable it can be over many years. They somehow believe their product is or can be mass-market broadcast like WoW.
It just seems to be GroupThink, they're stuck telling each other bull****.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Taladool
Minmatar JIta-Hosting
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Posted - 2011.04.17 18:01:00 -
[57]
+1
Agree with the OP 100%
CCP is really getting out of touch with the player-base, include the major lack of quality on most of the recent patches, and it gets scary.
Keep in mind there are so many things in this game that need work, need to be fixed, that if they were fixed it might cause a ton of bitter ex-vets to come back to eve.
We need CCP to focus on fixing everything that is broken, not working on new shinys. TS3 and TS2 servers for rent, order here |
Tarasina
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:03:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Teranul
Originally by: Ada Tora I really liked the game as it was before PI. It fit a niche that no one else could fit, and for the most part, still does. It needed work to flesh out the framework, but a competent company could easily do that in a short period of time.
I will resist the urge to insult your intelligence and instead point you at the myriad MMO developers who are all infinitely worse than CCP.
In fact, there is no other company that has as many people working on an ongoing MMO than CCP. Other companies frequently perform yearly paid expansions with even less content, or don't release expansions at all . The only company I am inclined to think of as even comparable to CCP in any way is Arenanet, but Guild Wars is barely even something you could call an MMO to begin with.
I can only wonder what your "dream company" could possibly be. Blizzard? Do we really want WoW in space? Valve? They have a hard enough time as it is creating content for shooters, I can't even imagine them supporting a game of this scale. Bioware? OHWAIT! Sony? NCSoft? Cryptic? Funcom? Turbine?
I mean... seriously? You've got some serious disconnects from reality, I think.
I can think of WoW and EQ2. EQ2 had expansions every 6 months or so in the beginning and they managed to have lots more content than even Apocrypha, probably more content than Eve has had since Apocrypha (incl. Apocrypha). Now they release yearly expansions. WoW is every 2 years? Lots more content not to mention the dungeons, balancing etc in-between the expansions.
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Vexion Daran
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.04.17 22:24:00 -
[59]
To the OP:
From all the morons typing "EVE is dead" and other sporadic brainfarts, you have put together a very good post. Even if i would agree or disagree, you have made your point with well chosen words and respect for CCP and what they did. I am looking forward to other players taking a notice to this post and see that this is the way to make things clear.
Thank you Evelgrivion, you made my COAD experience a whole lot better.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.17 23:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ada Tora If you are CCP management, take off the blinders for a moment and look at all the people around you who are posting similar sentiments. Look at the high-profile personalities who have become disheartened, some to the point of leaving. I admit that I'm a nobody, but you're losing the hearts people who have been here for years.
Who cares if some forum *****s quit or more likely just threaten to quit. I have played this game longer than any other game I have tried. That tells me CCP have done a brilliant job with this game. If someone gets tired of the game after 5-7 years its only natural. Its a wonder the game kept their interest that long. Most likely they will be back in a little while as there is no game that can compete with EVE.
If they truly wanted to quit they would just leave instead of making yet another dramaqueen thread.
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