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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
667
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:21:00 -
[91] - Quote
Tippia wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me. For the same reason as why mission runners can't just build their own supercaps. Because the can't anchor a Capital ship Assembly array in Hi-sec?
Nope that doesn't work as an answer. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4511
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:23:00 -
[92] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Tippia wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me. For the same reason as why mission runners can't just build their own supercaps. Because the can't anchor a Capital ship Assembly array in Hi-sec? Nope that doesn't work as an answer.
what? please leave |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4511
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:24:00 -
[93] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Op: Ignore the ninja and keep killing your stuff, let it take whatever he wants to get YOUR agression and come back with a dedicated PVP ship to kill you, yes this is the Elite pvp of eve, because they're risk averse and afraid of doing stuff in low/null, they prefer Concord protection to bully new players/mission runners and then complain because lvl4's are in high sec... It's also thx to those dudes mining barges got buffed, it will probably be thx to then at some point high sec will become completely safe and then they will complain, once again, like jelly red haired kids you took candies away from them. Why don't you just spot the trigger and kill it so they get caught by scram/web frigs and killed by rats? -I can assure you this is hilarious, then fraps it or screen shot it and post it in local each time you see it in or his corp.
>new players >l4s please leave |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
669
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Posted - 2012.09.01 12:26:00 -
[94] - Quote
Andski wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Tippia wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me. For the same reason as why mission runners can't just build their own supercaps. Because the can't anchor a Capital ship Assembly array in Hi-sec? Nope that doesn't work as an answer. there are no agents in sov 0.0 i hope i have enlightened you today That does not really have much to do with why a mission runner can't build super caps. Why would he be in sov space in the first place? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2012.09.01 14:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Nea Star wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote: Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me. Because they don't have enough sp yet to do lvl 4's and find NS to be more lucrative than grinding low lvl missions? Also NS is way more fun.
Its also a great way to practice probing technique. And scanning lvl 4 missions will beat out running missions until you get good at level 4s. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
26
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Posted - 2012.09.01 14:30:00 -
[96] - Quote
MetalDev wrote: make it a fair fight.
In eve a "fair fight" is a fight where the odds are stacked in your favour .........
Its why there are blobs in nulsec. Its why there are gatecamps and neutral-alt gatespys. Its why there are neutral RR's and station gaming.
When PvP'ers start quoting the risk vs reward mantra they are so fond of throwing around, they don't want you to understand its meaning
You take all the risks They take all the rewards
Once you start to realise and undertsand this you'll cope with eve better. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9307
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Posted - 2012.09.01 14:37:00 -
[97] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Because the can't anchor a Capital ship Assembly array in Hi-sec? No.
Because it's a completely separate profession with a completely different skill set and a completely different reward structure, and because doing one doesn't mean you have any interest whatsoever in doing the other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
95
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Posted - 2012.09.01 14:39:00 -
[98] - Quote
This thread makes me chuckle. There are so few people out there that can even be bothered to salvage their own wrecks that I can not believe this thread can be taken seriously.
Odds are at least 80% of the wrecks in the game go unsalvaged. That should put upward presure on the supply and demand cost of rigs. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1724
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Posted - 2012.09.01 14:39:00 -
[99] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:100% agree with OP. Loot ninjas are ******* scum bags who should be Concorded dry up the @rse. Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me. Stupid. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Selaya Ataru
Pink Kitten Kommando To The Moon
20
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Posted - 2012.09.01 15:03:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dear god he had to make 2 post to spawn a 5 pages thread. He's bad but surely very efficient at this whole trolling business. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
594
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Posted - 2012.09.01 15:50:00 -
[101] - Quote
"Waaah someone stole my spacejunk! Where's my blankie?" http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
702
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Posted - 2012.09.01 15:58:00 -
[102] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:"Waaah someone stole my spacejunk! Where's my blankie?"
Somebody just ninja'd it Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
465
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Posted - 2012.09.01 17:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
Wurst thrat evar! Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Savnire Jacitu
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.09.01 17:44:00 -
[104] - Quote
Just blow your wrecks up whenever they come. That's what I do. <corrupt> |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
637
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Posted - 2012.09.01 19:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:100% agree with OP. Loot ninjas are ******* scum bags who should be Concorded dry up the @rse. Why they can't just run their own missions is beyond me.
I made my first billion as a "binman," even just "legitimately" salvaging without looting most of the time, and very rarely getting shot at (the mission-bears in Emolgranlan seem rather jaded, although I got some hilarious hate-mails for my efforts!).
All this before I hit 5mn SP, the same money would have taken a lot longer grinding up from zero with missions. Been there/done it, never ever want to do it again.
I also learned how to probe --well-- and a few finer points of the d-scanner, how to "hunt" using a combination of both, and how to run/hide when being hunted, and how long I can stay in my site/plex even with hostiles in local, all of which serve me, and will serve me the rest of my "life" in EVE, not least of all now as a full time mostly losec explorer.
Oh yeah, if I'm in a mission, and I'm going to get ninja'ed, then I usually see them coming a long ways off...
You can't get that from constantly shooting red crosses with an AI that would have been considered primitive 20 years ago.
You can however, get really, really bored and frustrated, really, really quickly.
Besides, if I ever need to mission, then having done up to final level 3 in the Caldari COSMOS arc has got me any level 4 agent I want across 4 factions...Those missions, at least, are challenging, and have a cool and fun storyline, plus interesting (if not always really useful) rewards.
TL/DR:
Because regular missions are gratingly tedious, and don't really teach/gain you much beyond the first few weeks.
E:
Assorted grammar- and typing-fail. Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2012.09.01 19:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
This has to be a troll.
Otherwise we're expected to believe that the OP has been playing EVE for over 4 years but still doesn't understand the difference between an exploit and intended gameplay.
Likely? I think not. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
637
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Posted - 2012.09.01 19:29:00 -
[107] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:This has to be a troll.
Otherwise we're expected to believe that the OP has been playing EVE for over 4 years but still doesn't understand the difference between an exploit and intended gameplay.
Likely? I think not.
I dunno, maing...
I misremember the exact source now, but I've heard of some carebears who've been in since 2003-04 who did not know the mechanics behind how they could be attacked in hisec without their attacker getting CONCORD'ed.
I mean, really: These are basic, basic mechanics --most of us usually learn the hard way how they work within 3-4 months at most.
I guess there are carebears, and then there are freakin' carebears, ya know? Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
111
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Posted - 2012.09.01 19:35:00 -
[108] - Quote
MetalDev wrote:Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.
But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...
And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.
Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.
I hate to tell you this but you are entirely wrong. You can't shoot a salvager, only a thief (or you will get concorded) for a start. The ownership mechanic is in fact broken the other way. Npcers are given an artificial ownership of loot drops. Why do npc wrecks belong to the player that destroys them? They should belong to the faction the npc belonged to and therefore fair game to anyone. This is how it works for player wrecks after all. But ccp have given npcers added protection, you would think it would be enough for them, but no they want ownership of the wrecks as well despite the fact wrecks are always fair game in all forms of eve.
Shooting a thief allows him and only him to fight back, no "buddies" can shoot you. He can come back in a pvp ship but then you don't need to be there when he comes back. Or you could go back in a pvp ship yourself and have a nice fight. Or your entire corp can since your corpmates can all shoot him while his can not do anything to you. Basically everything is in the wreck owners favour. You can choose whether to engage or not. If you do choose to agress you can change into the ship you want first. Your corpmates can help you while his are all limited (they can rep him but take no agressive action). The only way you can be ganked is if you are stupid enough to steal from a flipped can, in which case you get what you deserve. |
Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.09.01 20:09:00 -
[109] - Quote
Sometimes I don't mind people helping themselves to salvage. For example today i was doing Angel Extrav on my main and I just could not be bothered to think about going back in the noctis and picking over the wrecks. So when I was joined in the last room by a salvager I just abandoned all the wrecks and said he could help himself. Seems such a shame to let it all go to waste.
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Garreth Vlox
Blackened Skies The Unthinkables
105
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Posted - 2012.09.01 20:28:00 -
[110] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:because OP is bad and can't take care of himself.
I would think it has more to do with this: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14266599
The LULZ Boat. |
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
122
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 20:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
6/10 for 6 pages of troll food |
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
153
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
Elinarien wrote:Sometimes I don't mind people helping themselves to salvage. For example today i was doing Angel Extrav on my main and I just could not be bothered to think about going back in the noctis and picking over the wrecks. So when I was joined in the last room by a salvager I just abandoned all the wrecks and said he could help himself. Seems such a shame to let it all go to waste.
I skip many also, but Angel extravaganza has some good salvage, plus there's that random implant that drops from the fourth room. |
pussnheels
563
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 21:46:00 -
[113] - Quote
MetalDev wrote:Yes, they're annoying, yes they're carebears who prey on mission runners, and yes most of them are cowards and won't fight 1v1. These things we know.
But I thought of it like this. If you pop an NPC and the wreck contains loot - they can steal it. Stealing constitutes taking items from a container that do not belong to you. Salvaged components are items. Salvaged components are contained within a wreck. And yet when someone is salvaging your wrecks and not looting them, they don't get any punishment for it. What it comes down to is them using a module to take your items from a container that you created by destroying an enemy. Anywhere else in EVE this is illegal and results in an aggression countdown. Why not with salvaging? Because some Dev somewhere wrote "CONCORD considers wrecks to be communal junk, anyone can have junk"? Seems legit...
And then of course we move on to everyone's favorite - the real reason its an exploit. Let's say you choose to fight back. I've one shotted many a T1 frigate or destroyer and gotten away with it. 99.9% of the time they either return with a PVP fit ship and a few friends, or all of their friends who were waiting warp in and gank you, you loose everything. My point here is there's nothing - literally nothing you can do about it. You can attack - you might pop one or maybe two of them, but you'll be ganked, scrammed, and pop goes your ship. You loose.
Or you can give in, just let them have all your loot and salvage. They'll make lots of money, you'll have wasted a lot of time and lost isk. You loose. It seems a poorly balanced system where the people making their isk legitimately have absolutely no recourse or defense against having people blatantly steal from them. They want you to try to defend yourself so that they can exploit a game mechanic and have people warp in and kill you, which you would have absolutely no defense against. Balance the system, make it a fair fight.
no no no either you are a absolute carebear or you are trolling, if somebody wants to invest his time and energy in 'stealing ' wrecks that his choice , if YOU want to shoot him that is your choice , if he comes back in a pvp ships and blows up youtr pimped mission runner it is your fault should have thought on it when you shot him If you don't want ninja looters in your missions either find you a less populated system or change agent more frequintly But whining about it on here about it will only bring those who ninja loot as a proffesion a nice smile on, their faces I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Thrym Garsk
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 22:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
I got suckered with this the other day, and my thoughts are a bit mixed. I took the bait and shot at the enemy ship that was engaging in the looting activity. Don't let the year old character fool anyone, my actual playtime is less than six months.
On the one hand, shame on the "veterans" that think that this is a novel and fun way to have a game played. A person is doing an NPC portion of the game and is not looking for and probably not even suitably fitted for a fight, and is in a high security place in which they are not planning to engage in such. On the other hand, PvP happens in EVE, though, so there is some measure of accepting that it will occur that a player must recognize and be willing to tolerate. "Fair play" is not an evolved concept in EVE, nor in its community.
This lack of fair play is a fine thing, school of hard knocks and all that rot. The problem lies in the security status aspect. In my case, the person doing this had a sec status in the 3's--no sec hit for a directly pirate like act. After it was all done, I'm left with no kill rights on him, nor the basilisk he warped in as assistance. The orca he warped in didn't even go red(I'm shady on what this was even used for as I don't know enough about it but he appeared to switch fits or craft on me at one point to gain an ECM), frankly I'd have had time to kill that or chase it off if it had.
The fact that I am unlikely to ever see any of these three craft in a non-high sec area, or even outside of a mission space for that matter, means I'll essentially never be able to retalitate.
So to make the story shorter, I think it is fine that a person can go through the trouble to scan down a mission and steal your loot, even if I feel no obligation to think highly of the player. I do not think it is fine that this happens without any mechanism for repurcussion or even mechanism to allow the player base to apply repursions. |
Lord Arakkis
Vestige of Vehemence Dragon Swarm Dynasty
45
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Posted - 2012.09.01 22:37:00 -
[115] - Quote
Does the OP know that given the type of missions being run (I hope lvl 4s with this anger lol) that even with them salvaging, he would still make much more off of his bounties and mission rewards than the salvager? Your still a child in the eyes of the universe |
Adalynne Rohks
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
233
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 00:15:00 -
[116] - Quote
Thrym Garsk wrote:I got suckered with this the other day, and my thoughts are a bit mixed. I took the bait and shot at the enemy ship that was engaging in the looting activity. Don't let the year old character fool anyone, my actual playtime is less than six months.
On the one hand, shame on the "veterans" that think that this is a novel and fun way to have a game played. A person is doing an NPC portion of the game and is not looking for and probably not even suitably fitted for a fight, and is in a high security place in which they are not planning to engage in such. On the other hand, PvP happens in EVE, though, so there is some measure of accepting that it will occur that a player must recognize and be willing to tolerate. "Fair play" is not an evolved concept in EVE, nor in its community.
This lack of fair play is a fine thing, school of hard knocks and all that rot. The problem lies in the security status aspect. In my case, the person doing this had a sec status in the 3's--no sec hit for a directly pirate like act. After it was all done, I'm left with no kill rights on him, nor the basilisk he warped in as assistance. The orca he warped in didn't even go red(I'm shady on what this was even used for as I don't know enough about it but he appeared to switch fits or craft on me at one point to gain an ECM), frankly I'd have had time to kill that or chase it off if it had.
The fact that I am unlikely to ever see any of these three craft in a non-high sec area, or even outside of a mission space for that matter, means I'll essentially never be able to retalitate.
So to make the story shorter, I think it is fine that a person can go through the trouble to scan down a mission and steal your loot, even if I feel no obligation to think highly of the player. I do not think it is fine that this happens without any mechanism for repurcussion or even mechanism to allow the player base to apply repursions.
I wouldn't expect you to think highly of looters. They're not exactly in it to make buddies with mission runners. But if you feel so strongly that you're on the losing end of this fight, it's because you're not aware of how the aggro works. You should look it up, or somehow find out all the ins and outs of what each person is allowed to do in this scenario.
Best thing for a mission runner to do would be to join a large, active high sec/mission runner corp. The npc corp you're in can't back you up if you get down and dirty with a pirate. But being in a corp where you can have near instant backup is a huge boost to the mission runner.
If you can mop up a pirate fast enough, you won't even have to worry about orcas coming in, or any other strange thing you might worry about. You'd be surprised how easy it is to just pop a looter before they can fight back much. They'll probaby bring back a pvp ship after that, so you can either fight him with ALL of your buddies, or go back to station for a few minutes, while aggro wears off. |
Emily Radcliffe
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.09.02 00:22:00 -
[117] - Quote
Gÿ+/ /Gûî /n++ \ |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
149
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 00:44:00 -
[118] - Quote
Let's do the time warp again!
Finally, a quality post! It is the greatest inequality to try to make unequal things equal. |
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
55
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Posted - 2012.09.02 00:48:00 -
[119] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Let's do the time warp again! Finally, a quality post!
Lmao.
Bless this threads's soul. I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point! |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
111
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 01:10:00 -
[120] - Quote
Thrym Garsk wrote:I got suckered with this the other day, and my thoughts are a bit mixed. I took the bait and shot at the enemy ship that was engaging in the looting activity. Don't let the year old character fool anyone, my actual playtime is less than six months.
On the one hand, shame on the "veterans" that think that this is a novel and fun way to have a game played. A person is doing an NPC portion of the game and is not looking for and probably not even suitably fitted for a fight, and is in a high security place in which they are not planning to engage in such. On the other hand, PvP happens in EVE, though, so there is some measure of accepting that it will occur that a player must recognize and be willing to tolerate. "Fair play" is not an evolved concept in EVE, nor in its community.
This lack of fair play is a fine thing, school of hard knocks and all that rot. The problem lies in the security status aspect. In my case, the person doing this had a sec status in the 3's--no sec hit for a directly pirate like act. After it was all done, I'm left with no kill rights on him, nor the basilisk he warped in as assistance. The orca he warped in didn't even go red(I'm shady on what this was even used for as I don't know enough about it but he appeared to switch fits or craft on me at one point to gain an ECM), frankly I'd have had time to kill that or chase it off if it had.
The fact that I am unlikely to ever see any of these three craft in a non-high sec area, or even outside of a mission space for that matter, means I'll essentially never be able to retalitate.
So to make the story shorter, I think it is fine that a person can go through the trouble to scan down a mission and steal your loot, even if I feel no obligation to think highly of the player. I do not think it is fine that this happens without any mechanism for repurcussion or even mechanism to allow the player base to apply repursions.
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