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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:00:00 -
[31]
My alt was perma jammed in Guristas Extravaganza last night in a Raven. Like seriously perma jammed...it was ridiculous...only ended up jammed for 1 cycle on my Machariel though... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Harkethas
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Maybe then you need to stick to lower level missions? You're actually demanding that the tougher parts of the game be simplified so you can casual your way through them. That's quite a stretch and a stand that definitely will draw it's share of trolls in your direction.
Now, here's the thing... your careful working our of tactics etc. simply needs to be reworked. What you worked out a while ago is less effective now. Adapt your plan to become more effective once again. They're locking you down. Add counters to that. Modify your fits. Bring a friend. Adapt.
Ingvar, I am running level 3 missions here - I never stated I was running level 4's. I have adapted the only way the game allows which is to fit ECCM modules to my ship. If I bring a friend they will be getting target jammed as well due to the number of ships doing it. I guess I'm just not very good at this game and really really need to keep my opinions to myself....
Apologies to all - I'll stay quiet in future :( _______________________________________________
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:11:00 -
[33]
no one is saying you can't talk dude, don't let anyone shut you down like that
just try FOF's, seriously. or try a ship, like a tengu or pirate ship, that has high sensor strength. it'll be alot easier for you
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:12:00 -
[34]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/04/2011 15:14:09
Golem Jamming Chances Table
Here are some numbers to help folks understand the impact of the new jamming and the effects of sensor strength.
Given a Golem with the following sensor strengths: * 14 - base Golem * 20.7 - Gravimetric Backup Array II (low slot) * 27.4 - ECCM Backup Array II (med slot) * 38.9 - Gravimetric Backup Array II + ECCM Backup Array II
"#" column is the # of jamming NPCs aggro'd. The other column headers are sensor strength. The row values is the percent chance of not being jammed.
# 14 20.7 27.4 38.9 -- ----- ----- ----- ----- 1 78.6 85.5 89.1 92.3 2 61.7 73.1 79.3 85.2 3 48.5 62.5 70.6 78.6 4 38.1 53.5 62.9 72.5 5 29.9 45.7 56.0 66.9 6 23.5 39.1 49.9 61.8 7 18.5 33.4 44.4 57.0 8 14.5 28.6 39.5 52.6
A base Golem is going to be jammed 50% of the time against three ECM NPCs. Even with an ECCM and backup sensor expect to be jammed a little over 20% of the time.
There's also the problem of lock times. You're looking at ~8-11 seconds to lock onto a Guristas battleship or cruiser. So if you're unjammed for 20 seconds, you'll only have time to fire off one or two salvos before the next jam cycle check. Never mind that the TPs shut off once jammed, so the second salvo will hit without TP support if you do get jammed next cycle.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Harkethas
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:27:00 -
[35]
Current Drake - Sensor Strength with Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM scanning array I running = 37.2 Planned Tengu - Sensor Strength with Dissolution Sequencer fitted = 20
Erm, am I missing something here? _______________________________________________
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:28:00 -
[36]
Nice post Stoic. So, if you change your fit to be jammed a little over 20% of the time against three, then kill the jammers first, that seems like a fairly viable strategy, does it not?
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:29:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 13/04/2011 15:29:40 tl;dr: zomg my single meta ECCM isn't protecting me from the half dozen ECM packed scorps
MADNESS! This....is.....INTENNNNNDED!
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:29:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Jason1138 on 13/04/2011 15:30:35 "Planned Tengu - Sensor Strength with Dissolution Sequencer fitted = 20"
fit the sensor strength sub on that tengu and it should be more like 35
and like i said before, if you're starting with the lowest possible sensors in a marauder, then yeah of course you're getting the crap jammed out of you. use something else vs jammers. the pirate bs's are all high 20's or 30
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Harkethas
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:39:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jason1138
fit the sensor strength sub on that tengu and it should be more like 35
Erm, as far as I can see the Dissolution Sequencer IS the Sensor Strength Subsystem for the Tengu...
I'm guessing 37.2 is a bit rubbish as a sensor strength for level 3 mission mobs? _______________________________________________
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:43:00 -
[40]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/04/2011 15:44:27
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Nice post Stoic. So, if you change your fit to be jammed a little over 20% of the time against three, then kill the jammers first, that seems like a fairly viable strategy, does it not?
Yes. And since it looks like Guristas ECM cruisers and battleships have the same jamming strength/frequency, I would target the jammers in the order that they're fastest to kill.
I haven't seen any LogServer numbers for ECM frigates, so I'm not sure what their ECM strength is.
Also, if you're like me and normally carry nothing but gobs of light drones, you may want to start carrying mediums (or sentries) to kill ECM cruisers and battleships faster if you have perma-jam problems.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Kuronaga
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:43:00 -
[41]
Originally by: suki cox I have to agree, missions like The assault were a challenge already but now.. i always bring an alt for more gank and im sure glad i do because even with drones, that mission in question is too dangerous to leave drones on aggro because they seems to love attacking trigger ships, ay ccp?
even FoFs are not to be trusted
If a mission is challenging, you shouldn't be doing it.
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:45:00 -
[42]
"Erm, as far as I can see the Dissolution Sequencer IS the Sensor Strength Subsystem for the Tengu...
I'm guessing 37.2 is a bit rubbish as a sensor strength for level 3 mission mobs?"
thought you were saying 20 sensor strength, but you're saying 20% chance of being jammed?
either way, 37 is excellent sensor strength for any level of mission. 37% chance of being jammed is a little bad probably. 20 is a little low on sensor, 20% chance of being jammed is ok
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Harkethas
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:50:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Harkethas on 13/04/2011 15:51:32
Originally by: Jason1138 "Erm, as far as I can see the Dissolution Sequencer IS the Sensor Strength Subsystem for the Tengu...
I'm guessing 37.2 is a bit rubbish as a sensor strength for level 3 mission mobs?"
thought you were saying 20 sensor strength, but you're saying 20% chance of being jammed?
either way, 37 is excellent sensor strength for any level of mission. 37% chance of being jammed is a little bad probably. 20 is a little low on sensor, 20% chance of being jammed is ok
My current Drake is running a sensor strength of 37.2 with the ECCM running and I'm still getting perma-jammed by Level 3 missions.
With an ECCM - Gravimetric II on the Tengu with the subsystem skill at 5 would give a sensor strength of 68.6 _______________________________________________
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 15:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kuronaga
Originally by: suki cox I have to agree, missions like The assault were a challenge already but now.. i always bring an alt for more gank and im sure glad i do because even with drones, that mission in question is too dangerous to leave drones on aggro because they seems to love attacking trigger ships, ay ccp?
even FoFs are not to be trusted
If a mission is challenging, you shouldn't be doing it.
FYI: when I was doing jamming testing the 2nd room of the Assault, I had a Golem with a 1400 DPS tank (all mid slots used for tank plus a DCII.) After pulling full room aggro, it wasn't enough tank until I killed off a few battleships.
Plus, there also seems to be a bug where Guristas battleship guns are not hitting you or are hitting for 0.0 damage, so the DPS that room can produce should be even higher than it is.
Long story short, you can lose your Golem on the Assault if you screw up the triggers and pull room aggro and then get perma-jammed and scrammed.
If I were a really nice person I would update eve-survival with the above info. Or I can scan down ships in Motsu and loot surprised mission runner wrecks since the Assault is normally a 0 jump mission.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Linda Shadowborn
Gallente Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:01:00 -
[45]
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience.
source
I used to be fine in my tengu with the sensor strength sub.. but now im jammed to hell and back even if i add ECCM.. which is kinda silly tbh.
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:04:00 -
[46]
"My current Drake is running a sensor strength of 37.2 with the ECCM running and I'm still getting perma-jammed by Level 3 missions."
FOF's and drones should be enough to get you out of trouble on a level 3
for everyone complaining about the assault, just kill the 1 group needed to finish the mission and move on, if its really that bad for you. 8k LP in under 10 min and you can be onto the next one
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Ioci
Gallente Morrigna Order
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Barakkus My alt was perma jammed in Guristas Extravaganza last night in a Raven. Like seriously perma jammed...it was ridiculous...only ended up jammed for 1 cycle on my Machariel though...
Tests I've done on Test server lend me to support this in many situations in EVE. Conclusion, Modules simply aren't working. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:40:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Harkethas Yeah, change is indeed good, and I am switching out my webber for a ECCM but then when you get repeatedly jammed about 5-6 times on the trot in a mission where you usually expect to get jammed a couple of times and your tank that normally stands up fine is starting to get close to 1/3 shield because you can't decrease the incoming DPS due to an inability to return fire, it gets a bit tricky and slightly frustrating.
You realize you sound like you're complaining because it almost started to be a little challenging.
I think that the fact that practically everyone does lvl 4 missions for their main source of isk implies that they need to be a little tougher, not nerfed.
It is not "challenging". You can easily pile up more shield/armor and avoid most of the risk.
It is annoying because you get to play twiddle thumbs for longs periods of game time.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.13 16:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Barakkus My alt was perma jammed in Guristas Extravaganza last night in a Raven. Like seriously perma jammed...it was ridiculous...only ended up jammed for 1 cycle on my Machariel though...
then that's odd.
maybe Guristas now use only caldari jammers? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Barakkus My alt was perma jammed in Guristas Extravaganza last night in a Raven. Like seriously perma jammed...it was ridiculous...only ended up jammed for 1 cycle on my Machariel though...
then that's odd.
maybe Guristas now use only caldari jammers?
Nope, looks like a jamming strength of 3.0 against everything:
55282011.04.13 00:30:04:358EW START TIME 1 19999 20000.0 55302011.04.13 00:30:04:358GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanMagnetometricStrengthBonus 3.0 55342011.04.13 00:30:04:358GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanRadarStrengthBonus 3.0 55382011.04.13 00:30:04:358GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanGravimetricStrengthBonus 3.0 55422011.04.13 00:30:04:359GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanLadarStrengthBonus 3.0 55452011.04.13 00:30:04:359StartEffect.CheckAttackDefenseStrengths.1b (9000000000000571461L, 1506961454L) (3.0, 27.5) 0.109090909091 False
As per the last LogServer entry above, 3.0 jamming strength versus the 27.5 sensor strength of a CNR gives you 3.0 / 27.5 = 0.109090909091 or 10.9% chance to jam the CNR.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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coolzero
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:15:00 -
[51]
Edited by: coolzero on 13/04/2011 17:15:36
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience.
Linkage Jack of all trades, master of none...
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:39:00 -
[52]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Barakkus My alt was perma jammed in Guristas Extravaganza last night in a Raven. Like seriously perma jammed...it was ridiculous...only ended up jammed for 1 cycle on my Machariel though...
then that's odd.
maybe Guristas now use only caldari jammers?
Nope, looks like a jamming strength of 3.0 against everything:
55282011.04.13 00:30:04:358EW START TIME 1 19999 20000.0 55302011.04.13 00:30:04:358GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanMagnetometricStrengthBonus 3.0 55342011.04.13 00:30:04:358GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanRadarStrengthBonus 3.0 55382011.04.13 00:30:04:358GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanGravimetricStrengthBonus 3.0 55422011.04.13 00:30:04:359GetAttributeValue 9000000000000571461 scanLadarStrengthBonus 3.0 55452011.04.13 00:30:04:359StartEffect.CheckAttackDefenseStrengths.1b (9000000000000571461L, 1506961454L) (3.0, 27.5) 0.109090909091 False
As per the last LogServer entry above, 3.0 jamming strength versus the 27.5 sensor strength of a CNR gives you 3.0 / 27.5 = 0.109090909091 or 10.9% chance to jam the CNR.
said 10.9% kinda conflicts with what I and some other people have been experiencing.
also, it seems that it's quite random too. sometimes you get very few jams in a mission, while the exact same mission later on, you get permajammed to hell and back. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Grimpak
said 10.9% kinda conflicts with what I and some other people have been experiencing.
Go back and look at the 27.4 column in the table in post #34. If there are multiple jammers present, you can wind up spending a lot of time jammed.
Quote: also, it seems that it's quite random too. sometimes you get very few jams in a mission, while the exact same mission later on, you get permajammed to hell and back.
Confirmed. Random is random.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:49:00 -
[54]
"Confirmed. Random is random."
lol i was thinking the same thing
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.13 17:51:00 -
[55]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Grimpak
said 10.9% kinda conflicts with what I and some other people have been experiencing.
Go back and look at the 27.4 column in the table in post #34. If there are multiple jammers present, you can wind up spending a lot of time jammed.
Quote: also, it seems that it's quite random too. sometimes you get very few jams in a mission, while the exact same mission later on, you get permajammed to hell and back.
Confirmed. Random is random.
note to self: never take afternoon naps. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Kalpel
Caldari United Systems of the Allegiance Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:34:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Kalpel on 13/04/2011 18:36:12 Edited by: Kalpel on 13/04/2011 18:35:42 Patch day, Gurista belt rats test pic I was jammed for over 3 minutes in this screen shot before I could target anything, once I could target it took another 7 minutes between jams to kill four little frigs *facepalm*
Now maybe it affects some players more than others, but this is just wrong IMO
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Teranul
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:52:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Teranul on 13/04/2011 18:53:03 I fail to see how constant jamming creates a "challenge".
I mean... unless being forced to sit and wait for RNG to not screw you over is a "challenge".
But seriously, NPC E-war is out of whack with their actual combat ability. Rats have considerably less tank, DPS, range, and tracking than player-piloted equivalents. It only makes sense that E-War is the same way. You also have to consider that there is almost always going to be more than one NPC with jamming capability.
There's such a huge rift between missions without E-War using ships and missions with them that, well, quite frankly you're better off taking the standing hit and skipping them all than forcing yourself to deal with them.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.13 18:57:00 -
[58]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/04/2011 18:58:49
Originally by: Kalpel Edited by: Kalpel on 13/04/2011 18:36:12 Edited by: Kalpel on 13/04/2011 18:35:42 Patch day, Gurista belt rats test pic I was jammed for over 3 minutes in this screen shot before I could target anything, once I could target it took another 7 minutes between jams to kill four little frigs *facepalm*
Now maybe it affects some players more than others, but this is just wrong IMO
Assuming the frigates have a jamming strength three, and judging from your Tengu modules, you were pretty much boned.
Looks like you had an 18 sensor strength which against four jamming rates (assuming jam strength of 3) means you'll be unjammed just under 50% of the time on average. If you had used the Dissolution Sequencer module instead, you would have had a sensor strength of 35 and would be unjammed 70% of the time.
# 18 35 -- ----- ----- 1 83.3 91.4 2 69.4 83.6 3 57.9 76.4 4 48.2 69.9 5 40.2 63.9 6 33.5 58.4 7 27.9 53.4 8 23.3 48.8
If you're going up against Guristas jamming rats in a Caldari ship, bring ECCM or gravimetric sensor boosters. FoF missile would probably be good against jamming frigates too.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Harkethas
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.04.14 09:42:00 -
[59]
Looks like the devs are looking into it http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1493604&page=1#21 _______________________________________________
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.04.14 10:05:00 -
[60]
I have no problems with my Tengu. It has a great 35 sensor strenth already and i can also fit FoF missiles! They usually get 2, rarely 3 cycles on me before I can lock them again.
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