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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: Akita T You know what actually worries me more about CQ ?
No, but I have a feeling you're going to wall-of-text us to death about it
Dear sir/madam, you appear to have forgotten to check if you properly installed your eyes and/or brain when you left the premises this morning, because the wall of text you speak of has been already delivered.
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Razin No slip of the tongue. CCP Dev: There is no ship-spinning in Incarna. CQ is mandatory.
It's not "mandatory" it's the medium ground. everything can be done without taking a step. It's just the view you see, which is not giving up much since all you do was spin.
It's still loading up the hardware-heavy graphics, so unless CCP heavily reduces the detail level, a lot of people will be at least partially miffed, since the game itself right now runs at a FPS anywhere between 2 to 4 times higher than the character creator. Why in the blazes force you to load up an environment that gives trouble (right now) to quite a few of the video cards in service every time you are in a position where even a WEB INTERFACE would do mostly fine ?
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Bumblefck
Originally by: Akita T You know what actually worries me more about CQ ?
No, but I have a feeling you're going to wall-of-text us to death about it
Dear sir/madam, you appear to have forgotten to check if you properly installed your eyes and/or brain when you left the premises this morning, because the wall of text you speak of has been already delivered.
Dear Sir/Madam/vampire bat, if you look carefully, not all pieces of the aforementioned wall-of-text have been delivered (see below). Kindly return to the factory, box them up and return them to their rightful place. -------------- Fix the game's last broken weapon system - support if you care!
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Frecator Dementa
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:23:00 -
[33]
as long as I can keep my "don't load station environment" option, I'm happy Anything else results in nerdrage ---- <sig goes here> |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:24:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 15/04/2011 21:24:24
Originally by: Akita T
It's still loading up the hardware-heavy graphics, so unless CCP heavily reduces the detail level, a lot of people will be at least partially miffed, since the game itself right now runs at a FPS anywhere between 2 to 4 times higher than the character creator. Why in the blazes force you to load up an environment that gives trouble (right now) to quite a few of the video cards in service every time you are in a position where even a WEB INTERFACE would do mostly fine ?
Because its true purpose, the reason it exists is to test the vampire game's engine. If you force it to load on everybody's machine, you can "battle test" on actual computers/hardware owned by your users. Plus, sometimes you can't shake the feeling that the CCP Q&A process is released something half cooked, and then weed thru the resulting whine and forum bile from the customerbase to find a solution.
In the end, they don't really give a damn about much else. Spaceships are getting frightening close to "feature complete" ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:25:00 -
[35]
Hi I'm Akita T and I selectively quote people.
I said YOU COULD GO BLACK SCREEN AS AN OPTION. whoch wold add NO RENDER TIME.
even a net book can load a blank screen.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:25:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/04/2011 21:26:53
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: Akita T It's still loading up the hardware-heavy graphics, so unless CCP heavily reduces the detail level, a lot of people will be at least partially miffed, since the game itself right now runs at a FPS anywhere between 2 to 4 times higher than the character creator. Why in the blazes force you to load up an environment that gives trouble (right now) to quite a few of the video cards in service every time you are in a position where even a WEB INTERFACE would do mostly fine ?
Because its true purpose, the reason it exists is to test the vampire game's engine. If you force it to load on everybody's machine, you can "battle test" on actual computers/hardware owned by your users. Plus, sometimes you can't shake the feeling that the CCP Q&A process is released something half cooked, and then weed thru the resulting whine and forum bile from the customerbase to find a solution. In the end, they don't really give a damn about much else. Spaceships are getting frightening close to "feature complete"
Please, at least let me delude myself with the presumption of incompetence instead of malice
Originally by: MotherMoon I said YOU COULD GO BLACK SCREEN AS AN OPTION.
How sure are you that that WILL actually be an option ? Also, what's wrong with the current low-requirements environment, why would it need to be removed ?
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
How sure are you that that WILL actually be an option ? Also, what's wrong with the current low-requirements environment, why would it need to be removed ?
Because they will both serve the same function? Because it's more immersion? because 1000's of players would complain about having to press a "walk" button "
why should I have to get out of the ship just to see the same station view but from my point of view?
the only real reason deign wise to keep the current one is ship spinning. other than that both environments serve the same function.
becuase games advance? Because we can't be stuck in the past? this is eve , it is, if anything, in a contain state of change for the past 6 years.
so yeah, if they don't keep option to not load station I will be there right by your side in protest.
if not, get over it, just like the massive 30 page thread on how the trinity graphics expansion should be removed, it will be ignored.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:36:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/04/2011 21:36:04
Originally by: MotherMoon so yeah, if they don't keep option to not load station I will be there right by your side in protest.
That was my only main point from the start.
Well, that, and that they should ALSO just keep the current station environment as an OPTION alongside "don't load anything" (if that option of "don't load anything" will even exist).
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 15/04/2011 21:40:20
Originally by: MotherMoon so yeah, if they don't keep option to not load station I will be there right by your side in protest.
That was my only main point from the start. Well, that, and that they should ALSO just keep the current station environment as an OPTION alongside "don't load anything" (if that option of "don't load anything" will even exist).
P.S. And what exactly is more immersive ? The pod pilot HAVING to get out of the pod each and every time the ship docks, making it to his quarters, washing out the pod goo, drying the hair and fully dressing, then back in the ship and out the docking bay, and all of it in the 30 seconds between session changes ? The CQ should simply be yet another station service button
bolded part
you would have player 3 weeks into the game just discovered this button.
plus once you press it what advantage would it give you? you would have tsame view but with an avatar. why not just have one.
but as for immersion.
the immersions from the idea that your ship is not important, YOU ARE. you are the pilot. sure the millennium falcon is cool, but you don't want to BE the spaceship. you want to be Han solo.
Instead it's , yeah look at that ship, that's MY ship. And that's me, god I'm such a badass.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.15 21:58:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/04/2011 22:03:26
Originally by: MotherMoon you would have player 3 weeks into the game just discovered this button
Like he has to "discover" the "undock" button ? Or the ship fitting screen button ? Heck, make it the default OPTION for all I care, as long as it's just that, an option, not the only possibility.
And I repeat, a LOT of people complained about horrendous FPS in the character creator on their video cards, even if the game itself ran just dandy. I myself get (with vsynch off) over 200 FPS spinning in station, but under 50 FPS in the character creator, and that's with a 460 GTX. A lot of people play EVE from their laptops too (where you can't exactly just upgrade the video card so easily), or machines with far less horsepower anyway (and why should they shell out for a much more expensive vidcard just to get SOMETHING other than a black screen in station, IF that will even be possible).
What breaks immersion more : keeping the current view, or forcing a lot of people to EITHER contend with a black screen or watch a slideshow while docked, with the mouse working at best shoddy due to the low FPS ?
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
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Aero Mercury
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.15 23:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 15/04/2011 22:03:26
Originally by: MotherMoon you would have player 3 weeks into the game just discovered this button
Like he has to "discover" the "undock" button ? Or the ship fitting screen button ? Heck, make it the default OPTION for all I care, as long as it's just that, an option, not the only possibility.
And I repeat, a LOT of people complained about horrendous FPS in the character creator on their video cards, even if the game itself ran just dandy. I myself get (with vsynch off) over 200 FPS spinning in station, but under 50 FPS in the character creator, and that's with a 460 GTX. A lot of people play EVE from their laptops too (where you can't exactly just upgrade the video card so easily), or machines with far less horsepower anyway (and why should they shell out for a much more expensive vidcard just to get SOMETHING other than a black screen in station, IF that will even be possible).
What breaks immersion more : keeping the current view, or forcing a lot of people to EITHER contend with a black screen or watch a slideshow while docked, with the mouse working at best shoddy due to the low FPS ?
Isn't the Eve character creator the piFce de rTsistance of character creators in the gaming world? Of course that demands a lot from your computer, but that doesn't say that the captain quarter will be as heavy. While the character creator need to calculate a lot of things whiles you sculpting the character (and thus lower the frame rate), the captains quarter going to be more or less static.
Also, CCP said that the Neocom Panel will load before the rest of CQ. So everyone who don't want to wait for it don't have to.
- Dictated but not read. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.15 23:27:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/04/2011 23:28:16
Originally by: Aero Mercury While the character creator need to calculate a lot of things whiles you sculpting the character (and thus lower the frame rate), the captains quarter going to be more or less static.
NO, that's not quite how it works.
The character creator was already heavily GPU-limited (not CPU-limited), and all the "extra" load that's not just image rendering happens on the CPU, not the GPU (cloth/hair simulation can run on the GPU too, but I include that as "image rendering").
As long as the detail level on the character model is the same as on the character creator, CQ will run even slower than the character creator, not faster. For CQ to run faster than the character creator, the character model would need to be heavily simplified, and the rest of the environment needs to add even less load than what you took out through that character model simplification. _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.16 00:07:00 -
[43]
Akita why don't you watch the fanfest videos then get back to us.
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Comodore John
Gallente Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.04.16 00:43:00 -
[44]
TBH, scrap Incarna/CQ and fix current issues
Just my .02 ISK
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.04.16 00:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Aero Mercury
Also, CCP said that the Neocom Panel will load before the rest of CQ. So everyone who don't want to wait for it don't have to.
You really believe that? Do you also agree that new players would not be able to find the "CQ" button in the station interface? ...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.16 01:11:00 -
[46]
Originally by: MotherMoon Akita why don't you watch the fanfest videos then get back to us.
Is any OTHER video I'm supposed to look at EXCEPT the one specifically about CQ ? Because in the two big presentations (which I already watched) the only reference to it was something about the lighting system and visual targets.
Yes, I get the idea that they want to make people identify with the character, not the "pod" inside the ship or the ship itself.
In the CQ presentation, there was only a "work in progress" video (not real-time demo), and the video looked pretty low FPS (with no mention on the machine it was captured on). That's why I am (again, for the umpteenth time) saying that I have nothing against it being the default view while docked, as long as it's not the ONLY way to be inside. The fact that the station UI is loaded before the actual CQ environment doesn't mean a damn thing IF the CQ environment is eventually loaded and it starts dragging FPS down badly.
You have already agreed that if they don't leave an option to not load CQ you would be just as upset. At no point during that presentation did the speaker mention you could simply NOT load that environment. Fine, let's ASSUME that you could not load it at all... so you end up looking at a black screen. He also said the location inside the CQ where you "undock" is selectable (with the hangar balcony being the default), so... what's wrong with ALSO having the CURRENT station interior view as an OPTION ? The presenter specifically said the current station interior is going away, as a response to "can we spin the ship" question later on. Why ? Is NOT deleting it so much of an effort ? Sure, he said he also wants to spin ships, but "not this summer" in CCP speak of late might as well mean "never".
AGAIN... me, personally, on THIS particular machine, I will almost surely keep some location inside the CQ as the default view. But I also want the option to fall back to the current "pod in ship which we can spin" view for when I go on a slower machine. And it is imperative that the option to load no interior at all be preserved (for those with really lousy machines), because I am not convinced that it will.
Why am I "raging" about it now instead of afterwards ? Well, DUUH. Take a wild guess. Because lately, that's what I would expect CCP to do.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.16 02:20:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Akita T Why in the blazes force you to load up an environment that gives trouble (right now) to quite a few of the video cards in service every time you are in a position where even a WEB INTERFACE would do mostly fine ?
Exactly. If our clients are going to basically hit the current "Re-customization" button automatically ON EVERY FRICKEN DOCK, then this game will be unplayable for me. Unsub.
You better make a simple CQ button out of the Re-custom. and leave EVE otherwise the F_CK alone. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.04.16 03:50:00 -
[48]
They never ever said CQ would be optional they said it wouldn't get in the way of an experienced player just wanting to use the market or dock or fit a ship which is an entierly different thing. At fanfest the interface had the dock buttons on the side just like now which is just great for most people. Also they'll increase the system requirements a bit since they've already announced in a devblog they're dumping Shader 2.0 support with Incarna.
Just saving you professional whiners some time since if you want to start some dumb threadnaught about it better do it now.
P.S. If you want to pretend Incarna dosen't exist go live in a Wormhole - or quit already. The minute you undock you consent to PvP, the minute you dock you'll consent to .. Incarna. There's a giant queue of people still waiting to "opt out" of the first, what makes you think you're special .
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.04.16 03:57:00 -
[49]
The impression I got is that a fixed position camera view from the balcony will be the quickie view for docking and that if you click on a button or something it'll load the full Incarna avatar and the environment behind the balcony door. The CQ and balcony have a door between them for a reason.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.16 07:47:00 -
[50]
Basciay the plan is that the basic station UI will still work anywhere in the room (slight warning the non undock station buttons UI *may* "poof" in the main room(not the balcony) from what I understand (doing so solves a problem) but you have all of that avalible from objects in the room
the only bad bit is aparently all "new" features might only be avalible in the "main room"
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.04.16 07:55:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 16/04/2011 07:55:16
Originally by: Steve Thomas Basciay the plan is that the basic station UI will still work anywhere in the room (slight warning the non undock station buttons UI *may* "poof" in the main room(not the balcony) from what I understand (doing so solves a problem) but you have all of that avalible from objects in the room
the only bad bit is aparently all "new" features might only be avalible in the "main room"
Yep, but keep in mind that if you are docking up to use the new features you plan on staying awhile as opposed to a quick dock/reship/undock. So you might as well get comfortable.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
My Postman
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Posted - 2011.04.16 10:45:00 -
[52]
Very much what Akita said!
While at home i¦m using a high end machine (well, high end 2009) with a "nber" fast internet connection, and never had a performing problem, when i¦m at work i use a laptop. It¦s a quite new one, with a mobile 21 mbit/s internet connection. I have to admit that i have some client side module lagging, and i would¦nt try an AE L4 on it.
Tl;Dr I don¦t want to have to buy an alienware laptop for Ç 3000 to be able to play eve from my laptop, hence what akita said.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.16 11:46:00 -
[53]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/04/2011 11:46:57
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: MotherMoon Akita why don't you watch the fanfest videos then get back to us.
stuff
I was talking about your issue of loading and character detail when walking. they go over a lot of automactic LOD tech that downgrades the details in real time to try to hold a set fps.
they talk about LOD based on number of avatars on screen.
and so on, it wasn't addressing any of the issues you just ranted on about.
it was in response to you not seeming to know much about how they are handling the graphics issues.
also eww alien ware. my 800$ 2 year old laptop runs the character creator at 25 fps. that's more than fine for me I could turn down the graphics if I wanted more.
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2011.04.16 12:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 16/04/2011 12:09:25 Just popping in here again...
Last night I was on SISI... not only was there not a CQ but ships were flying around backwards and there was a delightful UI bug that made it so you could not see how much damage your ship was taking (again). All the while supercarriers patrol every freakin beacon with neuts, fighterbombers and capital RR because at some point CCP got tired of enforcing any rules beyond not bubbling up the station.
Much like the "No Troll/flame Rules" of these forums (yes it is in the rules)
Quote:
# Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.
# Ranting is prohibited
A rant is a long-winded, redundant post, often filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.
# Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
Spamming, bumping and pyramid quoting are prohibited.
(short version) Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome.
And it goes On and On and On
Win.
Right now CCP is acting exactly like a corp CEO who is tired of being a CEO and is just in it to collect mission runners taxes (TM)
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.16 12:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jada Maroo The impression I got .. The CQ and balcony have a door between them for a reason.
Sorry, wrong impression. We currently have TWO clients installed on our computers. The standard "EVE-Space" client we used all these years(including the GFX updates), and the new Incarna client that gets loaded alongside the Space client every time you click the Re-custom. button.
ONLY this Incarna client is able to render the character and all that we saw in the CQ fanfest vids.
Starting it takes about half a minute when I run a single client on my WinXP system. Running two clients it gets ridiculous. The current Space client has already become almost too bloated for two simultaneous clients in one 2GB WinXP system.
P.S. to all WinXP too-old-tards, go lick ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Guilliman R
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.16 12:38:00 -
[56]
I agree with Atika on this, if I cant run two accounts at the same time smoothly anymore with the CQ taking up all resources I'm just going to quit, cba flying in space with shocking graphics because CCP forces me to stare at a high poly walls. ------
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Frank Battaglia
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Posted - 2011.04.16 15:59:00 -
[57]
Bump
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Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2011.04.16 17:09:00 -
[58]
Is the station environment really that light weight? True it's been a while but the last time I ran eve on a machine that was seriously underpowered (Geforce 6200m) the station environment was one of the highest loads in the client, just undocking would massively increase my FPS, as would working with the map open.
So I don't really get all these calls to keep station spinning for low powered machines, unless CCP has fixed .. buahahaha, sorry I couldn't even say that with a straight face :p
There's no reason that the new CQ should be a really heavy graphics load beyond anything else that the eve client does already given they develop it with a modicum of competency. I'd rather wait and let them show whether or not they've got it rather than railing against them sight-unseen because of what we've come to expect them to be capable of.
Opening a feature for public review, ignoring two rounds of testing and then pushing it through to production in a horrifically broken and bloated state? That's a failure. But all this outcry over something that we haven't even seen yet? We're not even close to failure until they're getting ready for release (not SISI). There are far more productive things to be ranting against at this stage.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.16 18:23:00 -
[59]
I'm very excited about the captain's quarters and Incarna in general, but I agree that we should have the option to stay in our pods if we plan to undock soon and just want to load cargo or change ships.
Surely that's the kind of stuff we could do via computers and robotic loading cranes without the ordeal of getting dumped out of our pod, vomiting up goo, taking a shower, changing, sitting on our nice couch, accessing a computer to do stuff, then stripping back to our undies, hooking up cables getting back in the pod, etc. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
mkint
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Posted - 2011.04.16 18:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Siiee modicum of competency. I'd rather wait and let them show whether or not they've got it rather than railing against them sight-unseen because of what we've come to expect them to be capable of.
Opening a feature for public review, ignoring two rounds of testing and then pushing it through to production in a horrifically broken and bloated state? That's a failure. But all this outcry over something that we haven't even seen yet? We're not even close to failure until they're getting ready for release (not SISI). There are far more productive things to be ranting against at this stage.
Bolded the issue here. Underlined the bad joke. Client-side performance gets worse and worse with every patch. I'd go as far to say that client-side performance is worse than it has ever been. Even extremely basic things that 20 year old software like Windows 3.0 was able to do smoothly seems to be a struggle in the EVE client. And that's just looking at coding issues, not to mention piss-poor UI usability design. Not to mention gawd-awful documentation and accessibility of featuers. Not to mention the gawd awful haphazard integration of new features. Not to mention that even if they did open CQ to testing, they're just going to ignore all the feedback that matters, just fix a broken texture that nobody will ever see and release it as pre-beta quality and barely functional and not fun and not iterate for another decade, just like 9 out of 10 new features that get implemented. There is precedent for the pessimism you're seeing here.
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