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Azure Skyclad
Amarr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.06 17:49:00 -
[61]
Awwwww. Flicking peanuts at Andy's cage makes him squawk though.
Lets be honest, it's about the only thing he's good for.........It's about the only thing he's capable of.
Azure flicks another peanut.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.13 13:17:00 -
[62]
Just placing a note here that following the destruction of Moira'a HQ tower "Argos" in Pelille system we brought the surviving economic structures across to their lowsec trade hub in Agoze and placed the items on the market in an auction contract.
We hope that genuine neutral commerce organizations can make use of this equipment and bring some real properity and commercial vitality to the region!
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James Syagrius
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 05:58:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Just placing a note here that following the destruction of Moira'a HQ tower "Argos" in Pelille system we brought the surviving economic structures across to their lowsec trade hub in Agoze and placed the items on the market in an auction contract.
We hope that genuine neutral commerce organizations can make use of this equipment and bring some real properity and commercial vitality to the region!
I will regret replying to you, and may even lose my position in Moria for doing so.
~snorts~ Which will be no great loss to them I am sure.
But I was so offended by the sheer magnitude of tactlessness shown in your aforementioned post, that I found it imposible to remain silent.
My contribution to this war has been minimal, mostly involving the loss of ships.
I admit that I had a certain grudging admiration for you Ms. Constantine, if for nothing else the longevity of your organization and your personal ability to convince people to believe in the cause you clam to champion.
In short to me our fight was not personal.
Your crassness in ôvictoryö is emblematic of your low character.
My dedication to this war has been tepid at best. I felt it was little more than the contention of egos, and not worth the expenditure of my personal resources. That has changed.
To you madam I may be a bug to be swatted, but to me you are no longer a foe, youÆre an enemy.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:03:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 14/06/2011 12:06:04
Originally by: James Syagrius
Originally by: Jade Constantine Just placing a note here that following the destruction of Moira'a HQ tower "Argos" in Pelille system we brought the surviving economic structures across to their lowsec trade hub in Agoze and placed the items on the market in an auction contract.
We hope that genuine neutral commerce organizations can make use of this equipment and bring some real properity and commercial vitality to the region!
I will regret replying to you, and may even lose my position in Moria for doing so ... To you madam I may be a bug to be swatted, but to me you are no longer a foe, youÆre an enemy.
Any organization that would terminate your association for the crime of speaking your mind in public is not an organization that is worthy of your time. We are capsuleers with vast potential and freedoms undreamed by those who came before. Nobody should restrict your speech and opinions James Syagrius. And you should not surrender these things for any cause.
To me you are not "a bug" or any such crass dismissal of your sentience. And you are neither my foe nor enemy in truth. I do not make war on people like you James Syagrius. My enemies are not people, my enemies are not organizations either. My enemies are old regressive ideas with no place in the future. The real challenge is to destroy these ideas by changing the minds of people and you cannot do that if they are dead.
Why are we fighting here James Syagrius? We are fighting because your leader attempted to command the Free Captains of the Fraction and tell us where we could or could not travel. That is the essence of our conflict and it is the expression of the idea of territorial restriction against the idea of free commerce and open trade.
Were I you I would reject the false council of your leader and look instead to a brighter future. Where one embraces neutral commerce rather than shooting it, turning your weapons upon targets that truly mean you harm, rather than on those seeking to enrich the economy of independent minds on the frontier for the benefit of all honest men.
So I reject your enmity. And I urge you to do assess your thoughts anew.
Like the contents of your industrial HQ the meaningful elements survive. These laboratories and silos and reactors have transcended the destruction of the guns and scramblers and neutralizers and may be used again by those with the thoughts to seek honest commerce in Placid.
It is a metaphor I think you should consider.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 15:35:00 -
[65]
Meanwhile, Star Fraction's new, brilliant strategy is spamming evemails to our corporation memberlist. How Splendid.
This war was declared by Star Fraction for one purpose only: to eliminate those that disagree with them.
Through their history for the past eight years, they have followed the same pattern.
And now they repeat history once again. They decided to find an easy target to shoot, or so they thought. This target fought back, and they got personally insulted by it. How quaint.
Well, Moira is still here, and it will always be here, Jade Constantine. This is not simply an opinion, but an inevitability.
We are a community not built on an ego, but mutual understanding and respect for each others' abilities for capsuleers.
In the end, Star Fraction has failed, and it always has failed. It has descended into the dark depths of capsuleer dementia and insanity, leaving behind any semblance of rationality for their actions, besides the sheer thrill of killing and the cheap joys of gloating on the IGS.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 15:43:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Julianus Soter Meanwhile, Star Fraction's new, brilliant strategy is spamming evemails to our corporation memberlist. How Splendid. This war was declared by Star Fraction for one purpose only: to eliminate those that disagree with them.
I don't believe any useful purpose is now being served by your footstamping or penchant for lying Julianus Soter. Your corporate membership has been appraised of the circumstances of war and current events so they may understand why things have happened. You have involved your corporation in this conflict by your own actions as is clearly revealed by the information made available to your corp mates at this time. I can understand why a dictatorship wishes to keep its servants in the dark - but it is not the way of the Fraction to respect such wishes. Information longs to be free.
Quote: In the end, Star Fraction has failed, and it always has failed. It has descended into the dark depths of capsuleer dementia and insanity, leaving behind any semblance of rationality for their actions, besides the sheer thrill of killing and the cheap joys of gloating on the IGS.
Now you are making absolutely no sense at all. This is a war that you personally provoked that has come home to annihilate your HQ tower in Pelille and has seen you abandon all possible principle or self-respect in your choice of unsuccessful patrons and defenders. Now you have a single opportunity to act as a leader rather than a spoiled little rich boy playing at politics and it will be seen if you rise to the challenge or simply hurl your toys from the pram in exasperated angst.
The IGS is watching Julianus Soter. Time to make a choice.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 15:49:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Julianus Soter on 14/06/2011 15:49:32 Everyone is free to express their opinions. Just some, such as Star Fraction, are more free than others, yes?
This is nothing more than the lowly tripe of might-make-right in 0.0 space, Jade Constantine. Every passing day you continue this perverse conflict, you drag your alliance's name through the same mire you claim to have elevated yourselves above.
And meanwhile, we continue.
You claimed to be hostile to Moira to begin with, while we were fighting the Caldari State. We reciprocated those standings for the defense of our own pilots from your wanton aggression.
We then destroyed a stealth bomber, in keeping with that policy.
Then you claimed, with no evidence, that we were set neutral.
What is clear, now, is that Star Fraction's much-vaunted NRDS policy is a ruse, used as an at-hand excuse for declaring war on whoever they wish.
They failed to remove the pirates in the Ostingele system, which they claimed to be fighting. How much more transparent can their claims to the economic interest of the Placid region can it get?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 15:57:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Julianus Soter
Everyone is free to express their opinions. Just some, such as Star Fraction, are more free than others, yes?
Your were very free to express your opinion of the Star Fraction by destroying a Fedaykin class torpedo bomber in 0.0 Syndicate Julianus Soter.
Just as we were very free to react to that consequence by making war on your corporation and annhilating your HQ tower in Pelille. That is the way of life and mutual coexistence on the Frontier. Choices, action and consequence.
Quote: You claimed to be hostile to Moira to begin with, while we were fighting the Caldari State. We reciprocated those standings for the defense of our own pilots from your wanton aggression. We then destroyed a stealth bomber, in keeping with that policy.
I assure you that your standings were neutral at that point otherwise you'd have been eliminated during the course of your involvement against Sansha incursions earlier in the year instead of aided on those occasions by fleets of Fraction vessels.
Quote: What is clear, now, is that Star Fraction's much-vaunted NRDS policy is a ruse, used as an at-hand excuse for declaring war on whoever they wish.
You are sounding increasingly desperate now Julianus and going down the path of Mizhara De'thul will hardly aid your case. I'm not sure anyone will follow how you destroying one of our stealth bombers in Syndicate, getting set red and then near-obliterated in a formal wardec represents a failure of our NRDS policy. I'd say if anything it shows that policy has teeth and should be a warning against foolish aggression from entities of your scale and capability in the future.
Quote: They failed to remove the pirates in the Ostingele system, which they claimed to be fighting. How much more transparent can their claims to the economic interest of the Placid region can it get?
Have we failed? It looks to me very much as if we've done rather better than you have on that score Soter.
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:07:00 -
[69]
The HQ tower that had its defenses offlined, as it was in the process of being taken down?
Thanks for saving me five hours of work, by the way.
Stop pretending to have legitimate interests in this wardec, Jade Constantine. Your own words betray your cause.
You claim to seek economic access, but indeed, that would seem to be instead economic hegemony, something directly against the purposes of the Star Fraction creed.
This can be resolved into the most simple terms: You sought to eliminate a competitor to make it less difficult for yourself. You seek to eliminate other competitors in the region in a desperate attempt to rebuild your alliance. We were a stepping stone to that goal.
The stepping stone fought back, and Jade took it personally. That's all that there is to know about this conflict.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:20:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Julianus Soter The HQ tower that had its defenses offlined, as it was in the process of being taken down? Thanks for saving me five hours of work, by the way.
If that is true (which I doubt) why did you allow your corp mates to uselessly sacrifice themselves to defend a tower that you had already opted to abandon. Didn't you think to tell them it was a pointless fight before letting them demonstrate more courage in 30mins than you have shown in the last 2 months?
Quote: Stop pretending to have legitimate interests in this wardec, Jade Constantine. Your own words betray your cause ... This can be resolved into the most simple terms: You sought to eliminate a competitor to make it less difficult for yourself. You seek to eliminate other competitors in the region in a desperate attempt to rebuild your alliance. We were a stepping stone to that goal. The stepping stone fought back, and Jade took it personally. That's all that there is to know about this conflict.
We had full justification to respond to your aggression Soter. You brought the war onto the heads of your corporation through your arrogance and baiting of the Free Captains. Now you are simply spinning wildly like a red-faced child caught with his hand in the cookie jar of poor excuses.
And freed of your spiteful presence in Placid we're finding the elimination of the regional gcc hostiles quite a pleasant task!
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:29:00 -
[71]
We wanted to annoy you, and see exactly what the fits of those bomebrs were. Wasn't very 'needless', we wanted to make a point.
You'd note the unanchored modules inside the tower shield, and the offlined defenses. The ship maintenance bay was empty. In conclusion, the tower is inconsequential to our strategic plans, and was instead drawing isk in fuel from us, so we decided to begin taking it down.
Indeed, it had served brilliantly, as Star Fraction sacrificed around three billion isk of assets against it. Fortunately, by the time SF finally destroyed the tower, all crew and command staff had long been evacuated.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Julianus Soter We wanted to annoy you, and see exactly what the fits of those bomebrs were. Wasn't very 'needless', we wanted to make a point.
When you say "we" is that the royal "we" - because we certainly didn't see you at the fight.
Quote: You'd note the unanchored modules inside the tower shield, and the offlined defenses. The ship maintenance bay was empty. In conclusion, the tower is inconsequential to our strategic plans, and was instead drawing isk in fuel from us, so we decided to begin taking it down.
When one plans an organized take-down of a pos the practise is to offline and unanchor each module in turn rather than offlining ALL modules on the tower simultaneously Soter. I think it is far more likely that you simply messed up the fuel levels and ran out of liquid ozone thus betraying your corporation to a hopeless last action that you had no intention of supporting.
Quote: Indeed, it had served brilliantly, as Star Fraction sacrificed around three billion isk of assets against it. Fortunately, by the time SF finally destroyed the tower, all crew and command staff had long been evacuated.
As stated elsewhere the war thus far has been quite close in terms of raw isk damage (though you have lost 3x as many ships) but I will note you are rather effective at sacrificing your allies and corpmates and avoiding much personal discomfort Soter.
Still by all means claim "we didn't want that HQ anyways" it does contrast rather neatly with your boasts on the Moira war thread from six weeks ago about removing Star Fraction from Placid
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Althea Ekran
Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:38:00 -
[73]
Jules didn't need to be, dear. I was acting there on his behalf.
I'm still confused by 'three times as many ships destroyed' when your killboard lists pods, insurance-provided frigates, and POS modules as 'ships', and the metric itself ignores the entirety of the value per ship destroyed or lost.
Regardless, Jules wanted to mention he's off to go do some work, so, I trust you can keep yourself entertained while he's gone, Jade darling?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:41:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Althea Ekran I'm still confused by 'three times as many ships destroyed' when your killboard lists pods, insurance-provided frigates, and POS modules as 'ships', and the metric itself ignores the entirety of the value per ship destroyed or lost.
If we included tower modules would be four times. The metric of value of course in this campaign is "whether Moira have succeeded in driving the Fraction from Placid." Seeing on the results thus far it can be said we're doing rather well on that one.
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Althea Ekran
Moira.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:49:00 -
[75]
I'm fairly sure a single frigate isn't equivalent to a Raven-class battleship. That's the false equivalency I was driving home earlier dear. Anyway, I'm sure the IGS truly does appreciate the continuous spam you're flooding the system with, so I'll let you go on, and on, and on. ..
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.14 23:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Althea Ekran I'm fairly sure a single frigate isn't equivalent to a Raven-class battleship. That's the false equivalency I was driving home earlier dear...
Whereas I am quite certain that a single pos module activated against said Raven-class battleship killed by somebody else entirely hardly has the same impact in overall campaign flow than a simple assessment of aims and objectives achieved does. The problem with K/D efficiency assessments is it is exceedingly easy to "cook the books" and make it look like one is winning when in fact one's organization is being kicked up and down the length of Placid like an unloved stepchild.
Case in point Ms Ekran. Almost 75% of the apparent isk-damage "achieved" by Moira in the fighting was achieved by single Moira vessels/pos modules making exceptionally minor contributions to engagements that were completed by other forces. This is hardly a meaningful way of assessing progress to anyone interested in actually "winning" a war rather than salving hurt feelings while losing one. A point you might do well to ponder as your organization considers war-strategy in the future.
Hence we present the simple exchange of vessels in space in our own assessments coupled with the primary measure of objectives achieved or not. In this case the measure of whether Moira could keep its primary objective of driving the Fraction from Placid. An objective I believe we can both agree Moira has failed at decisively thus far.
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:34:00 -
[77]
I think our drugs lab may be having some unforseen effects on Mr Soter.
Seems to be living on another pane of existance all together.
Got a dispute? Take it to court with the CCCNP! |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.16 11:55:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Julianus Soter You claimed to be hostile to Moira to begin with, while we were fighting the Caldari State. We reciprocated those standings for the defense of our own pilots from your wanton aggression. We then destroyed a stealth bomber, in keeping with that policy.
I think you are confusing yourself or otherwise attempting to confuse others with a distortion of reality here Soter. The only instance I can find of us previously referencing Moira would be (ironically) in the Mizhara Del'thul/Misan P'tek corp theft where I believe your pilot Jonny Damordred also accused us of breaching our NRDS standards and was told that Moira's time (as ultra-nationalists) would come. Now you would certainly have been in your rights to set us Red on that basis if it suited you. But on the further witness statement of your pilot Ilfort (and I quote)
Originally by: Ilfort If I were in a stealth bomber in nullsec and allowed myself to get caught, I wouldn't expect any mercy. Nor would I hold a grudge, for allowing myself to get caught, in a stealthbomber, in nullsec.
I also wouldn't consider it pirating in nullsec seeing as no "laws" are broken. Now if the corporation that did the killing proclaimed to be NRDS in nullsec, then I might take slightly more offence. But we don't.
I personally wasn't there, but if I had been present I see no reason why I wouldn't have taken part in the kill. If the kill had been in low security space, I wouldn't have.
Edit: Sooplex, I know and accept that Star Fraction are a NRDS organisation. In lowsec, Moira. tends to maintain a NRDS policy as well. However, to assume that everyone will know, care and reciprocate with regards to your rules of engagement is arrogant and a bit silly.
There it seems quite clear that your group simply behaved as NBSI pilots "tend" to behave (in nullsec) and shot at a neutrally-flagged ship which contracts your own words in the paragraph above.
As a result Moira were formally confirmed as Red by the Star Fraction and have been treated accordingly ever since. I don't really see where your complaints are at this point - you just seem to have behaved as NBSI opportunists and been beaten black and blue for your behaviour and are now crying foul when those you hoped to score an easy kill against have demolished your corporate presence in Placid.
Originally by: Julianus Soter Then you claimed, with no evidence, that we were set neutral.
I have stated correctly that your organization was neutral when it fired on our Stealth Bomber in Syndicate and is noted on the public comment on the killmail in question this action triggered the setting of -10 standing. You were not -10 at the time of this attack and as far as our records show have never been set -10 as an individual corp. (During your brief membership of Rote Kapelle alliance before they threw you out, you would of course have been flagged -10 on their behalf)
To counter your claim with the evidence required I've moved the initial report of aggression to the public section of the SF forums which clearly shows the post made by our pilot May Ke with the aggression log from your gang and the response of our director ClaireXXX setting your organization -10.
Had you already been -10 at this point (which I imagine is what you are attempting murkily to suggest) then why would this log and action have been posted?
Originally by: Julianus Soter What is clear, now, is that Star Fraction's much-vaunted NRDS policy is a ruse, used as an at-hand excuse for declaring war on whoever they wish.
On the contrary - I believe what is clear is that you will say and claim almost anything to cover up your blushes at this point Soter. Including trying to smear the cluster's oldest and most famed NRDS freespace entity to make excuses for your misplaced and rather innept NBSI practises.
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