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Craig Bennett2th
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Posted - 2011.04.18 07:50:00 -
[1]
Hey I was wondering if you can put in a stock market. I know a massive amount about the stock market and if you need some help starting it then send me a message and most likely i can give you a helping hand in this.
BTW if you dont do this then I will a few months or so down the road
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Fredfredbug4
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.18 11:13:00 -
[2]
This has been suggested before but CCP will never do it because if it crashes the EVE economy will be screwed. If the EVE economy is bad then CCP might loose a lot of subscribers.
Plus how are you going to create the stock market yourself? You're not a member of CCP.
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ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2011.04.18 15:09:00 -
[3]
if said stockmarket crashed woudlnt that just be part of the game, and how would that effect things that badly anyways. its just stock not like one cant make cash of selling items anyways :-P
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Fredfredbug4
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.18 16:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK if said stockmarket crashed woudlnt that just be part of the game, and how would that effect things that badly anyways. its just stock not like one cant make cash of selling items anyways :-P
All the corps loose money as a result of a stock market crash. Then they have to raise their taxes so they can make up for it.
So everything becomes more expensive.
This has been suggested over and over again since this game started. If CCP has never showed any intention of making a stock market 8 years ago they probably won't now.
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Nominh Ehre
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Posted - 2011.04.18 19:06:00 -
[5]
Its a good idea i think. Could start with something that would solve the "jita problem" as well:
A currency for each faction
Think how fun, if you want to buy something you need to make sure you have the correct currency or you have to exchange.
People would start buying more locally and other people would start buying/selling currency.
Would be awesome. yes?
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GizzyBoy
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Posted - 2011.04.19 10:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Nominh Ehre Its a good idea i think. Could start with something that would solve the "jita problem" as well:
A currency for each faction
Think how fun, if you want to buy something you need to make sure you have the correct currency or you have to exchange.
People would start buying more locally and other people would start buying/selling currency.
Would be awesome. yes?
Lets not do that thanks. would that mean bounties arnt payed out in isk and only factions correct isk?
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Nominh Ehre
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Posted - 2011.04.19 11:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: GizzyBoy
Originally by: Nominh Ehre Its a good idea i think. Could start with something that would solve the "jita problem" as well:
A currency for each faction
Think how fun, if you want to buy something you need to make sure you have the correct currency or you have to exchange.
People would start buying more locally and other people would start buying/selling currency.
Would be awesome. yes?
Lets not do that thanks. would that mean bounties arnt payed out in isk and only factions correct isk?
Would it be a bad thing?
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Ar135
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Posted - 2011.04.19 11:32:00 -
[8]
The stock market idea is interesting, currency trading for this game not so much b/c of the associated problems.
Issues: 1. Creating a market where shares can be sold (Just adding a tab on the market isn't going to work as it would be a mile long) 2. Incentive to buy shares, in real life shares pay dividends and fluctuate in value corps in eve can issue dividends but they're not going to and implenting a voting system probably wouldnt accomplish much as eve doesnt have shareholder rights laws 3. Some new corps in real life sell shares to raise financial capital for projects, again in eve it would be difficult to incorporate some type of system which could effectively reward investors
However, there are corps that function like the ones in real life, the NPC corps, being able to buy and sell shares of the NPC corps would be nice espcially if they paid dividends.
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Ravenal
The Fated E.Y
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Posted - 2011.04.19 14:04:00 -
[9]
Well, maybe not as stupid of an idea as I originally thought when I was trying to write a reply to this thread. Still stupid given corp and asset mechanics in EvE.
Corp submits their stocks to the open market at some set price. Nobody buys because assets to stock price is nowhere near correct. Corp spy sees a capital bpo + some t3 stuff dumped into corp hangars ... rushes to the stock market and buys a majority holding in the corp. Shuts out previous owners and clears out everything.
Wait, yes... just as stupid as I originally thought. Just another way of doing corp theft. .
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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.04.19 16:39:00 -
[10]
Okay, I replied in another thread about "credit" in which I explained the distinctions between economics in video games and real life.
In life people must consider if they are going to be able to eat, where they will sleep and if the consequences of their decisions will impact the quality of their life and liberty. They must live thru the consequences of bad financial choices and the blight of economic hard times.
In video games people can unsubscribe and look to other games for entertainment with a few simple clicks.
It's been proven throughout the history of civilization that people, groups, mobs, organizations and governments make bad financial decisions. If a simulacrum of a real world stock market were allowed in EVE, it would certainly crash. Not only due to the fact that people are dumb about living within their means but because there would be a standalone complex of economic hackers actively exploring methods to bring the whole thing down just for "fun"
"Risk versus Reward"
If the in game economy were to suffer a serious economic collapse, the individual players risk $15/Month plus a casual source of entertainment which can be replaced without serious repercussions to the quality of life. CCP on the other hand risk the success of the game, the entire company, the livelihood of the employees and their families.
If you were the head of the company would expose your associates, friends and family to such risk?
Even if CCP were to staff SCC NPC Corporation with live economic game masters, it's still too much of a risk to trust the prosperity of the company on the watchful eyes of a handful of economist when you never had to risk a thing in the first place.
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Sakaras Lane
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Posted - 2011.04.23 19:52:00 -
[11]
This would be overly complex you would have to have corps go public issue shares set up a whole new board of directors system, the lack of actual laws would lead to massive fraud and theft, you think security trading in the real world is bad and underhand can you imagine eve? no eve would be better off adding gambling in stations hosted by corps then playing stocks.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.04.24 05:54:00 -
[12]
As I posted in another thread:
The problem with this is that it would almost never be used except for scamming noobs.
When youre talking about trading shares of stock in eve you have to ask yourself two very important questions
#1 what keeps the CEO from just emptying all of the corp wallet into his own and leaving? (In real life, the police come and arrest you for embezzling money, in eve they make a promo video out of what you just didLinkage)
#2 what are these stock prices based on? There is no brand loyalty in Eve, nor is there a way to see what assets a corp has
The real stock market works because in the real world corporate theft and espionage are prosecuted, not so in Eve.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.04.24 06:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nominh Ehre
A currency for each faction
How about alliance currencies.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Ji'kahr
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.04.29 02:16:00 -
[14]
A currency for each faction?
I think they exist role-play wise (then again, everything does, doesn't it?) ISK, or 'Interstellar Kredits' was meant to be a common currency the four factions could agree on. Apparently, one disk of ISK 0.1 is worth so much that if a capsuleer tipped a waiter with one, that waiter would be set for life.
I thought that was absurd when I heard it. Can you imagine getting paid or buying food if the smallest bill available was a $10,000 US currency note?
So I imagine the 'planet dwellers' have their own kind of currency. In Amarr it's probably something like 'Imperial crowns', metal coins stamped with the face of the Empress. Minmatar has many nations, and possibly many traditional currencies of varying values such as 'wampum belts'. Caldari might use paper money, or better still corporate scrip. Gallente might have a system of social credit, the better liked you are in society the more stuff you are entitled to.
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Ji'kahr
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.04.29 02:29:00 -
[15]
Oh, and as for the concept of a stock market in EVE? It sort of exists in the form of courier contracts.
The Dutch invented the stock market as an insurance policy for goods or 'stock' shipped by boat. When you got stuff shipped to Holland from say, India, you paid for your stock in the hold of the ship in advance. If your goods arrived then your stocks went 'up', and you can sell them for retail. If the ship sank or was robbed by Pirates your stocks went 'down'. Of course, buying a whole cargo hold full of goods is expensive, so shippers would sell 'shares' of their ship's cargo to investors. If the ship and cargo arrived safely, the investor got a share of the retail price of the profit.
In EVE terms? A hauler pays a deposit on a courier contract. If his ship arrives safely, he gets the deposit back plus the delivery bonus. If his ship gets blown up he loses his cargo and deposit.
The best way to 'play the stock market' in EVE then? Buy one item cheap in one station, ship it to another station where it will sell for a higher price. Make a courier contract. Hauler's ship gets ganked you get the haulers deposit (wholesale cost). Hauler's ship and courier contract completed, the hauler gets paid and you make a profit on retail.
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Zues Brute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 02:38:00 -
[16]
I think the stock market Idea would be great and educational..i myself do the stock market daily in real life..not hard to learn just hard to master..just like eve LOL
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.04.29 02:43:00 -
[17]
Maybe it's been mentioned, but what if stocks could only be bought/sold and traded for player corps who actually participate in corporate (not individual) market orders? Specifically the gross profit of market transactions above a certain value, say 1bil.
Thus spawning or reinforcing trader corporations dedicated to business. If your company produces a ton of tech 2 equipment, and your profits rise, your stock will climb. By offering public stock, all players can participate in the rise and fall of major player industries through a single user interface.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Zues Brute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 03:10:00 -
[18]
Ruze It could be done but i think Individual investing should be allowed as well corp size should be regulated in particapating in beable to go public
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.04.29 03:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zues Brute Ruze It could be done but i think Individual investing should be allowed as well corp size should be regulated in particapating in beable to go public
Well, I would think that individuals being able to buy/sell stocks would be a necessity, yeah. But the stocks traded (not within corp, by the way, as that system is already in place) would be on public companies as you mentioned.
Sounds like it would work to me.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Zues Brute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 03:29:00 -
[20]
I would think we also would need other causes to make commodities to go up and down other then supply and demand we need some natural causes too to happen,,like some kind of space weather or something,maybe earthquakes on planets
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2011.04.29 03:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zues Brute I would think we also would need other causes to make commodities to go up and down other then supply and demand we need some natural causes too to happen,,like some kind of space weather or something,maybe earthquakes on planets
Well, in a way there are *natural* causes, too. Such as that major corporation that sells ships getting war'dec'd, or a couple freighters griefed, etc.
Though, maybe a space storm that destroys part of your corporations POS. That would suck.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Zues Brute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 03:36:00 -
[22]
ya lets make it real..LOL
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Ji'kahr
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2011.04.29 03:38:00 -
[23]
You can already sell/ trade shares in a corporation you make yourself, for about a million ISK.
Just make your own corporation, give it a name that won't make it a target to pirates 'I.e. 'Craigs shipping & Investments'. Do some market trading while docked up in a trade hub. This is as close to trading on the stock market as you get in EVE, the .01 ISK game. Call it Market PVP. Haul some of the stuff yourself at first, do some courier contract on the way. Train an alt or two to haul in about three days. Leave them in the NPC corp so they cant be war decced. Boring, easy money.
When you make enough money, start shipping through courier contracts.
When you have enough in your corporate wallet to make it look attractive to investors (e.g 1 billion) start selling shares. Keep 50% of the shares for yourself, sell the other 50% off. Sell these shares to the people you know best, such as the customers that buy stuff from you. Pay your shareholders a dividend every so often, such as every month. You decide the percentage of profits they get.
Now, if you like, you can buy at least one freighter and save yourself some money by hauling it yourself, or just contract out like the highly successful Red Frog Express does.
The only 'problem' I see here is that the stock market in EVE almost never goes down, except for the occasional suicide gank in a trade hub. This is a 'problem' not for you or your investors, but for the game developers. They are trying to find a solution to the hyper inflation in EVE's economy.
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stg213
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Posted - 2011.04.30 13:37:00 -
[24]
This has been actually considered by CCP... and discussed @ Fanfest see link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADyEvM1paZs&feature=channel_video_title (it's towards the end in the Q&A)
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.04.30 15:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: stg213 This has been actually considered by CCP... and discussed @ Fanfest ...
Yep. To get around the issues with current stock, maybe just make a secondary class. Existing shares are "prefered" stock and a new class would be "common". Allow common to go up on an exchange. Then the old system can stay as it is with no troubles and we can play public stock games too.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.04.30 15:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Fredfredbug4 This has been suggested before but CCP will never do it because if it crashes the EVE economy will be screwed. If the EVE economy is bad then CCP might loose a lot of subscribers.
An eve stock market can't quite crash in the manner we think of in the real world. For one, ISK isn't a debt laden note. It's a debt free currency that can never have an intrinsic or imputed value of zero, unless CCP shuts down the game. Curiously enough, ISK is more like real world gold than it is like real world fiat debt money.
Certain stocks could indeed crash, and likely would. I suspect a number of stock scams would be played out as well.
Tack on a nice divided history, price history, volume, outstanding information, etc, and it would be fun.
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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