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Jett0
Surface Warfare Tribal Band
248
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it:
Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss! Occasionally plays sober |
Lilianna Star
SAZI Enterprises The Aslyum
89
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
So, wait. Are we going to replace local chat with a plant based sensor array? If so, that would be lovely. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
683
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it: Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss! My biggest problem with that statement is " they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems."
Another thing aimed for big alliances and not the little guy. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Selinate
982
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it: Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss!
Well this might be a little hard to discuss with the NDA and all, but I'll give it a shot.
I'd support this kind of move, adding content for the dust players is imperative (along with making it a game that's actually fun to play in itself). However, all I ever hear about is alliances contracting out dust players to do this, contracting to do that.
If Dust is to succeed, Dust players must have the freedom to roam around on their own without needing alliances (and hence Eve players in general) to send them. Dust should have some elements of a stand alone MMO also. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2558
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
87
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 01:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lilianna Star wrote:So, wait. Are we going to replace local chat with a plant based sensor array? If so, that would be lovely.
It may have been there all the time as well, since we barely had any access to planets before.
Selinate wrote: If Dust is to succeed, Dust players must have the freedom to roam around on their own without needing alliances (and hence Eve players in general) to send them. Dust should have some elements of a stand alone MMO also.
I heard once a CCP interview where the Dev said that DUST player would be able to conquer planets on their own AND construct strctures on it. Sadly nothing more was mentioned on the topic.
James 315 wrote:I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows.
The point is seeing who's entering your system.
Frying Doom wrote:
Another thing aimed for big alliances and not the little guy.
As long as he has money... |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
615
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:
Another thing aimed for big alliances and not the little guy.
Sound familiar? Should give you an incentive to either join a big alliance, or grow your own alliance into a big alliance.
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Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
The kind of people who want to get rid of local in null never actually hold sov or hang out in npc 0.0 and they never will so i dont understand this obsession |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
90
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it: Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss!
Uhm wrong topic pal its general chat this is eve not dust keep it that way thanks.
/c |
Jett0
Surface Warfare Tribal Band
248
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
For better or worse, this also hits AFK cloaking... Occasionally plays sober |
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Gil Roland
Roma Aeterna
16
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Posted - 2012.09.02 08:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
The first step toward the removing of local chat. One small step for a man, a giant leap for nullseccers. No more "Oh my GOOD! There is a cloaked guy in my sistem!!" threads in the forums. They pleaded so much to solve the problem that finally CCP figured out the fix :-) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4509
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 09:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it: Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss!
You accidentally forgot to bold the "for a short time" qualifier.
Anyway, it's a neat idea. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2380
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Posted - 2012.09.02 09:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
So all those hours TEST and PL spent blowing each other away in various shooters (since well before we were allies) sure are going to pay off.
Woe to the enemies of the mighty Honey Badger. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
599
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 09:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
I take issue to a potentially major game changing mechanic affecting EVE being placed under the blanket of NDA.
But I comfort myself by realizing that even if we were allowed to discuss it CCP wouldn't listen until it was too late. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4509
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Posted - 2012.09.02 09:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Jett0 wrote:From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it: Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss! My biggest problem with that statement is " they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems." Another thing aimed for big alliances and not the little guy.
Breaking news: Sov warfare is inherently an alliance level activity.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2380
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 09:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Jett0 wrote:From Dust 514 beta: how it links to Eve Online and why you should try it: Quote:GÇ£Our approach is going to be that DUST players are going to take on specific goals for an alliance,GÇ¥ says Kristoffer, GÇ£rather than win wars while you sleep. So if youGÇÖre trying to take a system and a reinforcement timer is inconvenient, your foot-soldiers can go in and try and adjust it. Maybe you can even send them in to disable a solar systemGÇÖs local chat (and therefore intel) for a short period, the opportunities are endless. At the end of the day, they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems. Think of them as a Special Forces team that any alliance would benefit from having, by virtue of being the scalpel that supplements the chainsaw in space.GÇ¥ Link already posted in Dust section, but I thought this deserved its own thread. Discuss! My biggest problem with that statement is " they should provide tools for big alliances to fix specific problems." Another thing aimed for big alliances and not the little guy.
Sov holding alliances are the ones creating the most content, and driving the game's narrative.
You don't have to be a member of one to take part in the narrative they create, particularly when its on another platform entirely. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
76
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Posted - 2012.09.02 11:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
And when the next better FPS comes out and Dust is a graveyard, what options do we have then ? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2381
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Posted - 2012.09.02 11:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:And when the next better FPS comes out and Dust is a graveyard, what options do we have then ?
"better" FPS?
Let me tell you about Counter-Strike. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
81
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Posted - 2012.09.02 12:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Selinate wrote: Well this might be a little hard to discuss with the NDA and all, but I'll give it a shot.
Most of 'discussion' here is speculation anyways, so don't worry.
On topic, I really like the idea. Ive been mentioning removing local several times whenever I have bothered to post on these forums, so I'm all in for this.
Akirei Scytale wrote: Let me tell you about Counter-Strike.
Telling about how FPS's in general don't evolve at all? Ok. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
599
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 18:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:Selinate wrote: Well this might be a little hard to discuss with the NDA and all, but I'll give it a shot.
Most of 'discussion' here is speculation anyways, so don't worry. On topic, I really like the idea. Ive been mentioning removing local several times whenever I have bothered to post on these forums, so I'm all in for this. Well I guess it's good that more reasonable people (i.e. those with actual nullsec experience) recognize that removing local is a terrible idea. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
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David Campbell
Colonial Marines EVE Division Villore Accords
13
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Posted - 2012.09.02 19:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:And when the next better FPS comes out and Dust is a graveyard, what options do we have then ?
That's what worries me the most with Dust 514. I'll hate to see EVE broken because DUST bit the ground. I mean, I'm not sure FPS players will keep playing DUST for 5 or 10 years like EVE players do. What then ? |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
241
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Posted - 2012.09.02 20:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote: Let me tell you about Counter-Strike.
Telling about how FPS's in general don't evolve at all? Ok.
Tell me that great story of yours again when you reinvigorated a genre which is essentially clicking from a first-person perspective. "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
69
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Posted - 2012.09.02 20:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
I just want DUST to fail so that CCP consolidates the gameplay and rolls it into Eve as an "alternative gameplay" or even a "True Expansion" and not just a content patch CCP likes to label an expansion cause the change the title name. Keep Eve online within Eve online, none of this idealistic codependency on a secondary playerbase crap. Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.
Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of Out Of Pod Experience, If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here. |
Jett0
Surface Warfare Tribal Band
249
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 21:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Blane, if it succeeds, then it wasn't idealistic to begin with... PC version grafted onto EVE sounds awesome though.
Personally, I'm not worried about Dust's longevity. It wouldn't be hard to port to different, and future platforms. Not to mention, the Dust that releases won't compare to the Dust even a year later.
Anyway, on the topic of Dust affecting EVE: I think it's a great idea. There's even mention of changing sov timers. I like this approach. It gives alliances more options without making anything mandatory. That said, I hope low sec gets something out of this, and not just faction warfare. Seedy lowsec corps working with a Dust merc corp sounds appealing.
...and eventually, wormholes... Occasionally plays sober |
Volar Kang
Quartz Research Strategic Alliance
18
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Posted - 2012.09.02 21:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
If I had a nickel for everything CCP said was going to be in the game and then never happened, I would have enough money to play for free for several lifetimes. |
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
69
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Posted - 2012.09.02 22:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jett0 wrote:Blane, if it succeeds, then it wasn't idealistic to begin with... PC version grafted onto EVE sounds awesome though.
Personally, I'm not worried about Dust's longevity. It wouldn't be hard to port to different, and future platforms. Not to mention, the Dust that releases won't compare to the Dust even a year later.
Anyway, on the topic of Dust affecting EVE: I think it's a great idea. There's even mention of changing sov timers. I like this approach. It gives alliances more options without making anything mandatory. That said, I hope low sec gets something out of this, and not just faction warfare. Seedy lowsec corps working with a Dust merc corp sounds appealing.
...and eventually, wormholes... It is Idealistic because it makes a whole number of assumptions both about the Longevity of the platform and the playerbase supporting it. The large problem it is going to face is the continued development upkeep to keep it playing friendly with Eve, as well as the eventual PS4 version.
Ignoring development hardships to merely keep it functional, playerbase retention is a massive worry. If you're fuelling this game by having the key point as domino effects through into Eve then the functionality must have meaning for the DUST players. CCP doesn't just want Eve players with PS3's fuelling the game, they want an entirely new playerbase. If the functionality has meaning and can have an adverse or beneficial effect to Eve players, then there has to be a constantly numerous playerbase with a notable quantity of players.
It has to be a steady gain of players, like Eve, which is the complete opposite of what FPS games are designed around marketing wise. FPS players [self included] rarely latch onto a game and play it till death [UT99, CS:S and TF2 are the three which come to mind that have been going " a while "].
Most FPS' like Battlefield, Call of Duty [Which is without doubt where the majority of the market sits] playerbase play a game only for as long as the next game appears. Sure some people stick to an older one, but that isn't a good market to throw a game into in which you want a long and lasting amount of dev time sunk into.
I have slammed DUST almost since day 1. I hate the ideas behind it because it has stolen a lot of potential from Eve for the sake of a FPSMMO that I will be surprised if it lasts longer than the devtime sunk into it, before some way to salvage the code is needed due to a playerbase shortage.
It's an unappealing idea launching on an unappealing platform with unappealing tie-ins to a game a used to love and stare into its development with fascination and child-like eyes of wonder. It's a parasite in my eyes and nothing less, and yes, I feel that strongly opposed to it. Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.
Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of Out Of Pod Experience, If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here. |
Solaine Talvanis
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.09.02 22:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Blane Xero wrote:It has to be a steady gain of players, like Eve, which is the complete opposite of what FPS games are designed around marketing wise.
Most FPS' like Battlefield, Call of Duty [Which is without doubt where the majority of the market sits] playerbase play a game only for as long as the next game appears.
I have slammed DUST almost since day 1. I hate the ideas behind it because it has stolen a lot of potential from Eve for the sake of a FPSMMO that I will be surprised if it lasts longer than the devtime sunk into it, before some way to salvage the code is needed due to a playerbase shortage.
Though I kind of agree with alot of the points you're making, I also recognise that CCP is a company first.. I think that if we can think about these possible risks they surely have by now.. 'cause to them it's not only about a game they love to play but about their livelyhood as well..
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they released Dust on consoles first for exactly the reasons you stated.. they are gonna make money on it, lot's of FPS players will probably play for at least a while.. I suspect that when they get bored with it Dust will get ported to PC for the more eve involved and lasting community, and that they planned this in advance.. EvE's code seems to be a ***** because they kept building on old code for years.. if they anticipated an eventual move to the PC beforehand however.. The money they made on the initial console release can be used to inject in their current and future projects.. basically the way most game creators work nowadays.. It's a risk, granted, but hopefull a small and calculated one.
Think of it what you want. I can allready see the "CCP is too ******** to realise blahblah" comments coming, but considering where they came from with this game I'd say they did better than most of us have sofar.. Either way, DUST is coming... no way around it.. we'll just have to wait and see.. it could be awesome. |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
90
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 22:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
ok ok i know. now i hope ccp can pull it off but let me say this in every forum yes even in this forum people destroying the game just because the graphics is bad and the performence for hitting or aiming is horreble. Yah before you shout its beta i know. but thats what happens now. Just saying. |
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
70
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Posted - 2012.09.02 23:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Solaine Talvanis wrote:Blane Xero wrote:It has to be a steady gain of players, like Eve, which is the complete opposite of what FPS games are designed around marketing wise.
Most FPS' like Battlefield, Call of Duty [Which is without doubt where the majority of the market sits] playerbase play a game only for as long as the next game appears.
I have slammed DUST almost since day 1. I hate the ideas behind it because it has stolen a lot of potential from Eve for the sake of a FPSMMO that I will be surprised if it lasts longer than the devtime sunk into it, before some way to salvage the code is needed due to a playerbase shortage. Though I kind of agree with alot of the points you're making, I also recognise that CCP is a company first.. I think that if we can think about these possible risks they surely have by now.. 'cause to them it's not only about a game they love to play but about their livelyhood as well.. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they released Dust on consoles first for exactly the reasons you stated.. they are gonna make money on it, lot's of FPS players will probably play for at least a while.. I suspect that when they get bored with it Dust will get ported to PC for the more eve involved and lasting community, and that they planned this in advance.. EvE's code seems to be a ***** because they kept building on old code for years.. if they anticipated an eventual move to the PC beforehand however.. The money they made on the initial console release can be used to inject in their current and future projects.. basically the way most game creators work nowadays.. It's a risk, granted, but hopefull a small and calculated one. Think of it what you want. I can allready see the "CCP is too ******** to realise blahblah" comments coming, but considering where they came from with this game I'd say they did better than most of us have sofar.. Either way, DUST is coming... no way around it.. we'll just have to wait and see.. it could be awesome. I understand CCP approaching it as a product to sell, but there were better paths to take. I find it hard to believe the years of development that have gone into DUST will ever see a merit-able return.
Sure, you could argue that the development on DUST has not been solely for DUST- "Incarna 0.5" is proof enough of this. However, it is undeniable that there have been years dedicated to bringing this game forward, and there will continue to be a large amount of developer time spent sustaining, maintaining and prolonging its life.
The way I see it, it's a large amount of risk for a low reward and the ability to "Do a cool thing" when in comparison to some much safer and more awesome and even "cooler" alternatives. DUST's only unique selling point is that it is an MMO that will be connected to an MMO. That's it.
Now Imagine if they had just sunk that time to turn Eve into something where the whole universe was the MMO known as Eve. Could you imagine how much stronger and how much more interesting Eve would be if they actually widened its scope? DUST like functionality native to Eve would have been a great, and groundbreaking accomplishment. An MMO that isn't just tied to one Genre?
DUST barely scratches the potential it has now hamstrung completely. GG. Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.
Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of Out Of Pod Experience, If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here. |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
107
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Posted - 2012.09.02 23:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
removing local before a battle would hurts the two sides most of the time, not sure one would have a real interest doing that often.
you'll need to make dust hide the local when you know how many red there's, but before they know how many you are... but any guy on the staging of the other side can tell his side how many guys there's... so well...
this seems more interesting for small roaming fleets, but then there's a need for a whole constellation do be without local for a while, so the attacking side can roam with more efficiency. |
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