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RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
3
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now that we have the pretty/fancy new launcher hardpoints, can we have a torp Naga? Every other ship/gun class out there allows you to run something with a full rack of guns, except torpedoes/cruise.
So to make up for releasing 2 similarly capable blaster boats out of the 4 new battlecruisers, you could at least give the Naga the option for fitting torp/cruise launchers so then all of us missile fanboys will have ourselves a viable (and fun) torp ship.
The only other real alternative is to fit up a torp CNR, and thats just not so fun.
Missiles were the only turret type that got ignored with the new battlecruiser release so pretty please can this be something considered for change?
At the time CCP hadn't finished the launcher hardpoints so it is understandable they didn't want their shiney new battlecruiser to be handicapped but the awful old launcher system. But since they made the new launchers there is no excuse. |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
88
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Actually, the naga had missile hardpoints when it hit sisi.
After a little testing, it was found to be hugely OP.
This is coming from someone with battlecrusiers 5 and 10msp in missiles. I would love if it had torps. but it was OP.
There is currently no ship with 8 launcher hardpoints. |
RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
3
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, it might be OP, but its also very very thin, which adds to the fun. The Talos can be considered OP with a ridiculous blaster setup and the Nado's have stupid alpha with arties, so why not add more to the "glass cannon" feeling and give the players of eve something they have never had, a true torp boat? |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
334
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Posted - 2012.09.02 14:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:Actually, the naga had missile hardpoints when it hit sisi.
After a little testing, it was found to be hugely OP.
Actually it was found to be worthless.
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Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
84
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Posted - 2012.09.02 17:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, good, excellent idea.
Turn an incredibly hard hitting ship which functions at absolutely ludicrous ranges into a glass cannon with a broken weapon system that will fail to hit the target for full damage unless at least three target painters are on the target in question.
I remember flying a torp naga. It was easily the weakest and worst attempt at a T3 battlecruiser that I'd seen out of the four. With blasters, it was utterly terrifying. Rails, it had silly long range and still packed a reasonable punch. Torpedoes? It couldn't do anything. As a weapon system they are broken by how quickly damage bleeds out from factors like whether or not the target is a Caldari battleship, or moving at even a meter per second. All of the T3 BCs have PvP uses. If you really want this change, you will be removing the Naga from the pool of viable PvP ships and turning it into just another POS basher.
It was so good to not see whinging about how the Naga used hybrids instead of missiles for a while. Why did you have to bring these asinine arguments back? |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
199
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Posted - 2012.09.02 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Yes, good, excellent idea.
Turn an incredibly hard hitting ship which functions at absolutely ludicrous ranges into a glass cannon with a broken weapon system that will fail to hit the target for full damage unless at least three target painters are on the target in question.
I remember flying a torp naga. It was easily the weakest and worst attempt at a T3 battlecruiser that I'd seen out of the four. With blasters, it was utterly terrifying. Rails, it had silly long range and still packed a reasonable punch. Torpedoes? It couldn't do anything. As a weapon system they are broken by how quickly damage bleeds out from factors like whether or not the target is a Caldari battleship, or moving at even a meter per second. All of the T3 BCs have PvP uses. If you really want this change, you will be removing the Naga from the pool of viable PvP ships and turning it into just another POS basher.
It was so good to not see whinging about how the Naga used hybrids instead of missiles for a while. Why did you have to bring these asinine arguments back?
Translation: No thank you because torps as a weapon system are broken and would lead to a broken Naga if it were built for torps. Fix torps first, then we'll talk.
See now, was that so hard to say? Why do you have to be so negative?
I think that the Naga is a bit out of place because it is the same as the talos only not as good at brawling. In theory it would make sense to make the caldari T3 BC a missile boat, but I agree that torps are a broken weapon on anything but stealth bombers and they are only good there because of the range bonus. CCP needs to adjust torps specifically and missiles in general. |
RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
3
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Posted - 2012.09.02 21:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Loius Woo wrote: I think that the Naga is a bit out of place because it is the same as the talos only not as good at brawling. In theory it would make sense to make the caldari T3 BC a missile boat.
^ This... seemed odd in my mind to release two ships that covered the same nitch (though I guess the Naga is better with rails than the Talos), and to expect that they would perform equally even though they have different specs is crazy, one will always be better than the other, and since there wasn't any other ship in the game that can use a full rack of launchers it seemed even more silly.
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Zeomebuch Nova
Metalworks
19
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Posted - 2012.09.02 22:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd support a torp naga. You balance it by modifying the bonuses torps get from the ship. There is no need to get an OP nor UP ship out of this. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
863
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Posted - 2012.09.02 23:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
RangerGord wrote:seemed odd in my mind to release two ships that covered the same nitch (though I guess the Naga is better with rails than the Talos), and to expect that they would perform equally even though they have different specs is crazy, one will always be better than the other The blaster Talos may be better at "up close" combat... but the blaster Naga excels at kiting targets from afar (40+ km range with blasters using Null ammo)... and it shield tanks better. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
141
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Posted - 2012.09.03 03:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fix torps (and citadel torps) and fix cruise missiles (and citadel) and then we'll talk about a torp/cruise-naga. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
204
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Posted - 2012.09.03 04:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
The problem is that missiles already are slightly overpowered. Torpedoes are especially overpowered, they actually have higher DPS than mega neutron blasters. Missiles are supposed to have the lowest dps.
Still, I think they could make it have 6 launcher hardpoints like the Raven, or just nerf missiles and buff the hardpoints on missile boats, then give it 8. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Loius Woo
PATRIOT KNIGHTS
200
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Posted - 2012.09.03 05:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Torpedoes are especially overpowered,
Ummm...
You see exactly how many torp ships running around doing PvP?
Oh yea...NONE.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Torps only do the most damage against structures (not moving, huge signature radius) If a target is doing anything (moving or has a small sig) then they do shite damage. The fall off of damage is too steep on the torps and that is what makes them totally useless for PvP. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
323
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Posted - 2012.09.03 05:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
OP you have the best name I've seen for a while +1 for that, I didn't bother reading the rest of the post |
Dracan02
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
3
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Posted - 2012.09.03 06:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
the only thing torps are good for at the moment is ganking BS with bombers and structure bashing. the only thing that would make a torp naga any good is to bonus the torps for exp. velocity and radius... if you did that you would have the same problem that came with the old cruiser missile bombers. overly powerful against a small range of targets, useless against everything ells. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
334
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Posted - 2012.09.03 08:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
The torp Naga was worthless because its DPS could only be affectively applied against BS or, with painting support, t1/2 BCs. Unfortunately, the fundamental problem was that in the close-range gank-off that a torp Naga would have to take part in, it would very likely lose the applied DPS/EHP race to a BS or t2 BC. It certain;y would have been dead meat to another t3 BC.
I remember someone proposing Cavalry-Raven tactics for torp Naga gangs, using Doppler-shifted torp spam to overwhelm local and RR tank. But it didn't seem a very good idea. You'd have to get your torp Naga into position, lock up and redbox your target (giving time for hostile logi to start repping), then fly straight at them, giving them the opportunity to web and gank you. All so complicated when you can just fly a Tornado...
The Cruise Naga, relative to turret t3 BCs, had poor DPS in the important ~100 km region, compounded by flight time and missile damage application concerns. It was worthless too.
The current rail Naga may not have the close-range gankiness of a Talos. And it shouldn't, that's Gallente's realm. But neither does that Talos deal 700 DPS at 100 km... |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
953
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Posted - 2012.09.03 09:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
*Waves hand in a slow motion*
These are not the Torpedo Nagas you are looking for
The problem with missiles doesn't change that the intended role for current Tier3 battlecruiser is incompatible with torpedoes, so Torpedo Naga isn't going to happen, sowwy! |
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
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Posted - 2012.09.03 09:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking? That is: lacking DPS in the first place. 14 |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
147
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Posted - 2012.09.03 10:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking?
No, re-read. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
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Posted - 2012.09.03 10:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Colonel Xaven wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking? No, re-read. Post with your main, the one with blue badge. 14 |
Selaya Ataru
Pink Kitten Kommando To The Moon
22
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking? That is: lacking DPS in the first place.
Any chance that you get the point that missile based ships are just bad for sniping and the Naga is in fact a sniper ship?
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
755
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Selaya Ataru wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking? That is: lacking DPS in the first place. Any chance that you get the point that missile based ships are just bad for sniping and the Naga is in fact a sniper ship? That has nothing to do with my point. Of course it's bad at mssile sniping, given how it's a hybrid ship and how poor cruise missiles are . The point is how they absolutely had to make it hybrid-based. 14 |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
147
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Posted - 2012.09.03 11:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Colonel Xaven wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking? No, re-read. Post with your main, the one with blue badge.
Wouldn't make any difference content-wise. |
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
99
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Posted - 2012.09.03 14:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Current Naga:
Is: Excellent with rails or blasters Is Not: The same niche as the Talos.
Torp Naga was laughable even if torps did hit things moving faster than continental drift. "Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom." |
RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
5
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Posted - 2012.09.04 02:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
So as an excerpt from his post that he linked:
"We could have given it Stealth Bomber-like Torpedo explosion velocity, velocity and flight time bonuses but it was conflicting with an already existing ship class while not delivering not much new value itself. "
So instead it conflicts with another ship that was released at the same time as it was, pretty slick. Also, not sure how they are saying that torps/cruise were bad because they couldn't hit small fast things... so exactly how good are large blaster/rail turrets for hitting small fast things? If you didn't want to give it Stealth Bomber-like bonuses, then don't, give it some other missile bonus. That would make it as different from the Stealth Bombers as its current hybrid differences/similarities to the Talos now.
And if they are concerned with not having a sniping ship, I've seen the Oracle and Nado fill in that role pretty nicely without the need to make a 2nd of 4 new ships also have projectile/lasers because one is snipe and one is close.
So lets step through this:
4 new ships are released. There's a couple that can snipe (Oracle/Nado). There's a blaster brawler on the same level as a Vindi (Talos) There's a projectile, a laser, and a hybrid (3 of the 4 gun types)
So it seems like there is still a gap, that could be filled by the 4th ship (Naga)
There was no missiles and currently no ship in the game that can do 8 launchers either. You can't say its not for killing battleships because its paper thin and can't handle small fast things, well same goes for the rest. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
44
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Posted - 2012.09.04 02:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
OP, dont f@ck with my Drake killer. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
44
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Posted - 2012.09.04 02:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Selaya Ataru wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Any chance you admitting the reason Torpedo (actually, missile) Naga fails is the fact cruise missiles are also lacking? That is: lacking DPS in the first place. Any chance that you get the point that missile based ships are just bad for sniping and the Naga is in fact a sniper ship?
Did you tryed with bkasters? |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
126
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Posted - 2012.09.04 06:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:Actually, the naga had missile hardpoints when it hit sisi.
After a little testing, it was found to be hugely OP.
This is coming from someone with battlecrusiers 5 and 10msp in missiles. I would love if it had torps. but it was OP.
There is currently no ship with 8 launcher hardpoints.
It was cool on SiSi because missiles would come out of the middle. It was the only ship the old missile effects looked good on. I Endorse this Product and/or Service Source Recorder-esque tool for EVE |
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