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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 24/04/2011 00:08:01 Could Render Photovoltaic Cells Obsolete
Why was this not main news? Frack your Windsors, Ghadafis and GAGas!
Quote: The researchers found a way to make an ôoptical battery,ö said Stephen Rand, a professor in the departments of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Physics and Applied Physics.
In the process, they overturned a century-old tenet of physics.
ôYou could stare at the equations of motion all day and you will not see this possibility. WeÆve all been taught that this doesnÆt happen,ö said Rand, an author of a paper on the work published in the Journal of Applied Physics. ôItÆs a very odd interaction. ThatÆs why itÆs been overlooked for more than 100 years.ö
You wanna know why "nucular" is such a green(dear god) power source, for which there is seemingly no alternative available? Because sh!t like the above is ignored! ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
sableye
principle of motion
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:05:00 -
[2]
because they've not actually made one yet, until they do its a bit like the free energy machines people try to always sell every couple of years, not sayingt his is not legitmate but until they build a protype that legitmatly makes electricity then its pointless speculation. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:11:00 -
[3]
I wonder how long until the patent is bought by an oil company and shelved. Every major advance in solar has met that fate.
The grip big oil has on the globe is one of the great evils of our age, and it's time that we rise up and free ourselves from the shackles of their, one sec, someone is at the door.
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 24/04/2011 00:12:14
Originally by: sableye because they've not actually made one yet, ..blabla.. pointless speculation.
And because customers like the above are too lazy to actually click the link, I quoted the juiciest bit directly from the source.
Click the darn link and educate yourself instead of spouting of "TV talking heads wisdom". ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
sableye
principle of motion
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 24/04/2011 00:12:14
Originally by: sableye because they've not actually made one yet, ..blabla.. pointless speculation.
And because customers like the above are too lazy to actually click the link, I quoted the juiciest bit directly from the source.
Click the darn link and educate yourself instead of spouting of "TV talking heads wisdom".
I read the article, please see the bit
Quote: which could lead to ôa new kind of solar cell
I even bolded the important part, they not made anything yet. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:53:00 -
[6]
They've made a discovery which has applications in solar technology. You don't need to have things already in production before you can patent them. It's apparently stood up to peer review so far in a physics journal.
Using "could" is just standard practice for anything further down the road. It doesn't mean it's under the kind of doubt you seem to think, or want.
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:56:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 24/04/2011 00:56:24
Originally by: sableye I even bolded the important part, they not made anything yet.
Fair enough then.
This is indeed in the advanced research stages, but it already blows minds when you start thinking about it.
______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.24 00:58:00 -
[8]
It's mostly theoretical for now, but if we're lucky enough to have theory mesh with practice as expected/hoped, all we'd really get (according to the article) is CHEAPER install cost solar panel tech. Which is quite ok for the countryside and such, but not so great for powering cities... install costs (which this tech has the POTENTIAL to drastically reduce them if all goes just right) are not quite the only impediments against this going full scale.
Let's put it this way... if alternative energy sources would actually go the way of the "shelf of big oil companies" as the nearly full-on tinfoilhattery plot claims, how exactly do you explain the boom in the development of electric cars, hydrogen fuel cars, new hydro-dams being constructed wherever still permitted by environmental regulations, windfarms springing up like mushrooms after a rainy day and all those other visibly not-oil alternatives that are even getting heavy government subsidies to offset the initial costs and turn them quite profitable much earlier than a pure market economy could (and this is happening across a lot of the EU, and I suspect to a lesser degree in other parts too). _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 01:15:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 24/04/2011 01:20:35
Originally by: Akita T
Let's put it this way... if alternative energy sources would actually go the way of the "shelf of big oil companies" as the nearly full-on tinfoilhattery plot claims, how exactly do you explain the boom in the development of electric cars, hydrogen fuel cars,
What boom? Prius? Please. Hydro fuel? They are saying it¦s ready in 10 years for 20 years.
Quote: new hydro-dams being constructed wherever still permitted by environmental regulations, windfarms springing up like mushrooms after a rainy day
Mainly prestige and good profits to be had milking government subsidies.
Quote: and all those other visibly not-oil alternatives
*crickets
Quote: that are even getting heavy government subsidies
Solar subsidies just got a MASSIVE cut in Germany, and you¦re REALLY comparing the nuclear industry subsidies with the droppings from the table alternative energy is getting? Quote: to offset the initial costs and turn them quite profitable much earlier than a pure market economy could (and this is happening across a lot of the EU, and I suspect to a lesser degree in other parts too).
Token efforts. The private home "10 000 roofs" solar cell subsidy was so effective it got sucked dry quickly and never really followed up correctly(like a 1 million roofs initiative). It was still enough to make Germany the world leader in solar cell tech.
If it wasn¦t for Fukushima our oh so energy concerned German leaders would¦ve had no problems waving billions of mandatory refits to keep old nuclear reactors running at modern safety standards. Now they are switched off.
I bet it¦s even worse around the world. Especially when there isn¦t even a will to properly inform oneself about the dirty backroom deals money and power is doing with our enlightened leaders.
But I guess that¦s too tinfoil hat for you types. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
sableye
principle of motion
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Posted - 2011.04.24 01:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bane Necran They've made a discovery which has applications in solar technology. You don't need to have things already in production before you can patent them. It's apparently stood up to peer review so far in a physics journal.
Using "could" is just standard practice for anything further down the road. It doesn't mean it's under the kind of doubt you seem to think, or want.
what makes you think its peer reviewed this journal publishes prety much anything while it does do peer revieweed stuf as well the article itself doe snot mention it was peer reviewed and I can't find the original paper on the journals site to confirm if its peer reviewed or not as the site itself said it should be marked as such if it is. I am not saying the paper does not exist on there its not easiest site to navigate since they want to charge you for everything ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 01:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T let's put it this way... if alternative energy sources would actually go the way of the "shelf of big oil companies" as the nearly full-on tinfoilhattery plot claims
If you'd have even done a minute of research you'd know how terribly wrong that is. Don't even have to dig to find evidence of Exxon buying and stockpiling solar patents that remain unused. It's all in plain view, and abundant.
I never would have expected you to be so naive about the real world, when you embrace the ruthlessness of EVE so much.
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sableye
principle of motion
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Posted - 2011.04.24 01:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bane Necran
Originally by: Akita T let's put it this way... if alternative energy sources would actually go the way of the "shelf of big oil companies" as the nearly full-on tinfoilhattery plot claims
If you'd have even done a minute of research you'd know how terribly wrong that is. Don't even have to dig to find evidence of Exxon buying and stockpiling solar patents that remain unused. It's all in plain view, and abundant.
I never would have expected you to be so naive about the real world, when you embrace the ruthlessness of EVE so much.
patents don't mean anything in some places in the world, espially to those counties that don't produce oil (or limited production) like china and india.
I'd also like to say that compainies sue each other all the time for using each other patents does not seem to stop development there, take a look at the mobile industry there for an exmaple. ----------------------------------------- View The North Star! In All Its Glory!!
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.04.24 01:49:00 -
[13]
Another failfit from ivar.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.04.24 01:55:00 -
[14]
Thats a simple example of magnetic resonance, happens all the time.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.24 03:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Bane Necran
Originally by: Akita T let's put it this way... if alternative energy sources would actually go the way of the "shelf of big oil companies" as the nearly full-on tinfoilhattery plot claims
If you'd have even done a minute of research you'd know how terribly wrong that is. Don't even have to dig to find evidence of Exxon buying and stockpiling solar patents that remain unused. It's all in plain view, and abundant. I never would have expected you to be so naive about the real world, when you embrace the ruthlessness of EVE so much.
That's actually something completely different at work here. It's "investing smart" on behalf of those companies. RIGHT NOW, fossil fuels are still noticeably the cheapest overall source of power (barring maybe nuclear power in some cases, that is), so even if you put all those patents to work now, you know what you'll get ? That's right, FAR LESS money than what you could have gotten by doing something else, unless some heavy-duty subsidies fly your way, and even then it's not completely guaranteed to make you quite the same amount of money for your initial investment. However, at some point in time, fossil fuels will cease being the cheaper alternative. WHEN (not if, WHEN) that eventually happens, guess who's got all the most promising patents under their clutch and also be most likely to develop improvements and variations based on those patents ? Well, if you guessed "the guys you now accuse of suppressing the tech", that would be right.
Do you honestly think that IF solar energy would actually be cheaper than fossil fuel energy, the likes of Exxon would still bother expanding in fossil fuel while neglecting solar power "just to spite us" ? Please, they're only after the money. They'd switch in a heartbeat the moment they would smell the cashflow shifting.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 04:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Caleidascope Another failfit from ivar.
Sup. I aim to please all altposts.
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Thats a simple example of magnetic resonance, happens all the time.
Yep, breakthroughs happen all the time. Every 100 years in this case, when we follow your logic. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Vogue
Short Bus Pole Dancers
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Posted - 2011.04.24 12:29:00 -
[17]
China is the worlds biggest manufacturer of solar panels and it exports most of them as dirty coal power is by far the most cost effective. This is a sad truism that green technologies will not supplant contemporary forms of energy production.
I wonder why there is not far more investment in geo thermal power as beneath the earth's crust is practically an infinite source of heat.
.................................................. Fortress Of Solitude |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.24 14:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Quote: that are even getting heavy government subsidies
Solar subsidies just got a MASSIVE cut in Germany, and you¦re REALLY comparing the nuclear industry subsidies with the droppings from the table alternative energy is getting?
oh hi there, welcome to my poor stupid country called portugal where we supply half of our own power demands with home-generated renewable sources (wind, hidro and some solar).
granted we're a stupid country where the PM is a big ass and not one politician can make compromises with FMI & co., because of how big dumb headed they are, but at the very least we managed to triple our renewable energy production in some 10 years, one of the very few good things the PM made while he was in office.
if we, a poor little country with nothing good for it (that even germans hate, apparently), can create a renewable energy source that is even the envy of the states (as it showed up in a Times' article a year back or so), why can't you people? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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CCP Cascade
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Posted - 2011.04.24 14:47:00 -
[19]
With the risk of derailing I found this claimed discovery quite facinating. I haven't seen any coverage of this except in a swedish technology magazine called Ny Teknik.
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer
Youtube with subtitles, click "cc": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4JUJhkpc3I
Patent pending: http://www.wipo.int/patentscope/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2009125444&recNum=1&docAn=IT2008000532&queryString=FP:%28WO/2009/125444%29&maxRec=1
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Tagera
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Posted - 2011.04.24 14:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Quote: that are even getting heavy government subsidies
Solar subsidies just got a MASSIVE cut in Germany, and you¦re REALLY comparing the nuclear industry subsidies with the droppings from the table alternative energy is getting?
oh hi there, welcome to my poor stupid country called portugal where we supply half of our own power demands with home-generated renewable sources (wind, hidro and some solar).
granted we're a stupid country where the PM is a big ass and not one politician can make compromises with FMI & co., because of how big dumb headed they are, but at the very least we managed to triple our renewable energy production in some 10 years, one of the very few good things the PM made while he was in office.
if we, a poor little country with nothing good for it (that even germans hate, apparently), can create a renewable energy source that is even the envy of the states (as it showed up in a Times' article a year back or so), why can't you people?
Definitely have a point....in fact if it weren't for big oil, the wanting of enriched uranium sources for things that make glass parking lots and the stocks and bonds of various people along with the middle east issue of what the hell would it do if no one bought oil. Fusion power would have actually been done ages ago. And yeah who wouldn't envy a small country where pretty much everyone generates half or more of the energy they actually use.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.24 15:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tagera
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Quote: that are even getting heavy government subsidies
Solar subsidies just got a MASSIVE cut in Germany, and you¦re REALLY comparing the nuclear industry subsidies with the droppings from the table alternative energy is getting?
oh hi there, welcome to my poor stupid country called portugal where we supply half of our own power demands with home-generated renewable sources (wind, hidro and some solar).
granted we're a stupid country where the PM is a big ass and not one politician can make compromises with FMI & co., because of how big dumb headed they are, but at the very least we managed to triple our renewable energy production in some 10 years, one of the very few good things the PM made while he was in office.
if we, a poor little country with nothing good for it (that even germans hate, apparently), can create a renewable energy source that is even the envy of the states (as it showed up in a Times' article a year back or so), why can't you people?
Definitely have a point....in fact if it weren't for big oil, the wanting of enriched uranium sources for things that make glass parking lots and the stocks and bonds of various people along with the middle east issue of what the hell would it do if no one bought oil. Fusion power would have actually been done ages ago. And yeah who wouldn't envy a small country where pretty much everyone generates half or more of the energy they actually use.
bit correction, by "home-generated" I mean in country, altho some people actually have a small wind generator or solar pannels and sell the energy back to the company. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.04.24 15:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: Caleidascope Another failfit from ivar.
Sup. I aim to please all altposts.
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Thats a simple example of magnetic resonance, happens all the time.
Yep, breakthroughs happen all the time. Every 100 years in this case, when we follow your logic.
Just, what?
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Tsual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.24 17:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Let's put it this way...
Why are you even bothering? You could as well try to convince an ufologist that there is no base on the dark side of the moon.
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.04.24 20:24:00 -
[24]
The really hilarious part about alternative sources is that solar works only when sun is up, no sun, no juice.
The best way to work solar, is to put satellite into orbit, this satellite will always be in the sun, constantly generating electricity. This is the way to do it.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.24 20:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Caleidascope The really hilarious part about alternative sources is that solar works only when sun is up, no sun, no juice.
The best way to work solar, is to put satellite into orbit, this satellite will always be in the sun, constantly generating electricity. This is the way to do it.
thus you put it on places that have plenty of sun year-round. and "not working with no sun" depends. it does work if the sun is clouded yes, altho with much less efficiency. logically, it doesn't work at all at night tho. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.04.24 21:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Caleidascope The really hilarious part about alternative sources is that solar works only when sun is up, no sun, no juice.
The best way to work solar, is to put satellite into orbit, this satellite will always be in the sun, constantly generating electricity. This is the way to do it.
thus you put it on places that have plenty of sun year-round. and "not working with no sun" depends. it does work if the sun is clouded yes, altho with much less efficiency. logically, it doesn't work at all at night tho.
You forgot the other two things about solar. Solar panels are made with very toxic materials. Solar panels have lifespan of about 20-25 years.
You also demonstrate another limit of solar panels. Most of us do not live in places that have plenty of sun year around. If you look at the map, you will notice large land masses north of equator, that is where most people live. That what makes solar collector satellite so appealing, put it in space, receiver to the sun, transmitter to Earth, no need for people to move around.
The most interesting development in solar panels in the past few years, was when they showed technology that would allow solar panels to utilize light of several different frequencies to generate electricity. Here is an article from 2004: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/sb-MSD-multibandsolar-panels.html
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.24 21:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Caleidascope The really hilarious part about alternative sources is that solar works only when sun is up, no sun, no juice.
The best way to work solar, is to put satellite into orbit, this satellite will always be in the sun, constantly generating electricity. This is the way to do it.
thus you put it on places that have plenty of sun year-round. and "not working with no sun" depends. it does work if the sun is clouded yes, altho with much less efficiency. logically, it doesn't work at all at night tho.
You forgot the other two things about solar. Solar panels are made with very toxic materials. Solar panels have lifespan of about 20-25 years.
You also demonstrate another limit of solar panels. Most of us do not live in places that have plenty of sun year around. If you look at the map, you will notice large land masses north of equator, that is where most people live. That what makes solar collector satellite so appealing, put it in space, receiver to the sun, transmitter to Earth, no need for people to move around.
The most interesting development in solar panels in the past few years, was when they showed technology that would allow solar panels to utilize light of several different frequencies to generate electricity. Here is an article from 2004: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/sb-MSD-multibandsolar-panels.html
tbh earth-bound solar panels seem to be good as a cheap way to provide heated water, or small localized energy production. more like a complement for hydro or windfarms.
orbit-bound panels tho, I would wait till we manage to create orbital elevators and physically "connect" a "solar ring" to surface.
meaning, unless we manage to create cheap durable and "clean" solar panels that require not much maintenance and we can setup them in the sahara, we better wait some 100-200 years for very large-scale solar plants ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.04.24 22:23:00 -
[28]
Wasnt certain european parties buying up realestate in the Sahara and Saudi to eventually put up massive solar farms...or sell it back to people wanting to put up massive solar farms?
Also talk of littering the AZ,NV, and California deserts with em too.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.24 22:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Blacksquirrel Wasnt certain european parties buying up realestate in the Sahara and Saudi to eventually put up massive solar farms...or sell it back to people wanting to put up massive solar farms?
Also talk of littering the AZ,NV, and California deserts with em too.
well, considering they are basically unsuitable for human consumption, and that it would actually give some shades to the local wildlife aswell, I guess it isn't a bad option. HOWEVER, since those panels require to be somewhat clean, and deserts are... well, anything but places with water, that kinda makes it hard. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.25 02:04:00 -
[30]
EuropeÆs Plan to Draw Solar Power From the Sahara Moves Ahead
The plan was to build power plants that concentrate solar rays instead of solar panel farms. Guess the current "irregularities" down there put that whole idea slightly on hold. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
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