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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.03 03:46:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Never stop trying, maybe someday you'll grow up to a real troll ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Elmer Dunley Horsekoch
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Posted - 2011.05.03 04:09:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Shiroi Okami
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Never stop trying, maybe someday you'll grow up to a real troll
Your tears sustain me. Keep up all that :elitepvp: though, i'm sure one day you'll overcome those bad bad recon alts.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.03 07:35:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Actually, all of Genos agrees that Angel ships are overpowered (See, the nerf dramiel thread) and we hardly fly them at all. The last time we did mass angel gangs (Aside from Machariels) was February 2010, don't let that stop you from trying to change the subject of ECM balance because you don't want to lose your win button though. ---
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 09:03:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Shiroi Okami
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Never stop trying, maybe someday you'll grow up to a real troll
Never ever stop trying someday you will know how to pvp without whines everytime something does not go as planned
Pod |
Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 09:08:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Actually, all of Genos agrees that Angel ships are overpowered (See, the nerf dramiel thread) and we hardly fly them at all. The last time we did mass angel gangs (Aside from Machariels) was February 2010, don't let that stop you from trying to change the subject of ECM balance because you don't want to lose your win button though.
So paper thin jamming bird with no DPS after a needed jam range nerf is not ok. But a unscannable battleship that can go faster then some frigates and snipe from safety. Or very fast autocannon kiting monster still going faster then most frigates is OK. Gotcha your logical reasoning is simply brilliant.
Pod |
Kingwood
Amarr Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2011.05.03 10:04:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Actually, all of Genos agrees that Angel ships are overpowered (See, the nerf dramiel thread) and we hardly fly them at all. The last time we did mass angel gangs (Aside from Machariels) was February 2010, don't let that stop you from trying to change the subject of ECM balance because you don't want to lose your win button though.
So paper thin jamming bird with no DPS after a needed jam range nerf is not ok. But a unscannable battleship that can go faster then some frigates and snipe from safety. Or very fast autocannon kiting monster still going faster then most frigates is OK. Gotcha your logical reasoning is simply brilliant.
Quoted for stupidity. Please show me the unscannable PvP Machariel fit. And where did Suitonia say that Angel ships are okay?
AUTOCANNON KITING MONSTER
OH GOD ANGELZ
Anyone defending ECM because of "omg we need something to kill those Angel/Minmatar ships" is a scrub. You're a scrub.
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:11:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Actually, all of Genos agrees that Angel ships are overpowered (See, the nerf dramiel thread) and we hardly fly them at all. The last time we did mass angel gangs (Aside from Machariels) was February 2010, don't let that stop you from trying to change the subject of ECM balance because you don't want to lose your win button though.
So paper thin jamming bird with no DPS after a needed jam range nerf is not ok. But a unscannable battleship that can go faster then some frigates and snipe from safety. Or very fast autocannon kiting monster still going faster then most frigates is OK. Gotcha your logical reasoning is simply brilliant.
Quoting for hilarious reading comprehension fail ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
clbo
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:37:00 -
[158]
Edited by: clbo on 03/05/2011 11:41:21
Edited by: clbo on 13/45/2911 25:61:99 Hi, me and my friends also fly hurricanes but we do not want to cripple the dual web + scrambler or our nice triple sensor booster fits setup by adding things like ecm/eccm.
So we, as paying customers, yes we pay for this bad game, are asking you CCP to pretty please nerf jammers because I cant zoom around at ridiculous speeds while locking down someone and skull **** him with this low sensor strength. Also I do not understand what support ship means, how I can use fof missiles, drones or remote sensor dampeners to keep out of combat a ship that's jamming 9 people at a time and that usually stays at around 70 km away from my auto cannons.
Edit:
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Kingwood
Amarr Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:41:00 -
[159]
Originally by: clbo Edited by: clbo on 03/05/2011 11:39:26 Edited by: clbo on 13/45/2911 25:61:99 Hi, me and my friends also fly hurricanes but we do not want to cripple the dual web + scrambler or our nice triple sensor booster fits setup by adding things like ecm/eccm.
CCP please nerf jammers because I cant zoom around at ridiculous speeds while locking down someone and skull **** him with this low sensor strength. Also I do not understand what support ship means, how I can use fof missiles, drones or remote sensor dampeners to keep out of combat a ship that's jamming 9 people at a time and that usually stays at around 70 km away from my auto cannons.
Edit:
Try flying solo for once and then fit an ECCM and still be viable in fights. You are hilariously dumb.
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clbo
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:46:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Kingwood
Try flying solo for once and then fit an ECCM and still be viable in fights. You are hilariously dumb.
Trying to solo a fleet is, wait what? Ok, trying to solo 2 ships of witch one may have ecm is, oh.. maybe you need some friends in this massive multiplayer internet spaceship game (and some brains).
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:49:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Shiroi Okami
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Elmer Dunley Horsekoch Oshi.. butthurt genos-gasm in here.
"Bawww, my angel ships aren't pwnrolling everyone I come across. CCP, please nerf the bad falcon pilots!"
Actually, all of Genos agrees that Angel ships are overpowered (See, the nerf dramiel thread) and we hardly fly them at all. The last time we did mass angel gangs (Aside from Machariels) was February 2010, don't let that stop you from trying to change the subject of ECM balance because you don't want to lose your win button though.
So paper thin jamming bird with no DPS after a needed jam range nerf is not ok. But a unscannable battleship that can go faster then some frigates and snipe from safety. Or very fast autocannon kiting monster still going faster then most frigates is OK. Gotcha your logical reasoning is simply brilliant.
Quoting for hilarious reading comprehension fail
There is no comprehension fail here. Basically you say that you agree one class is overpowered. Yet you continue to fly it and ***** when other group of people is doing the same with slightly different type of ship that is overpowered in your opinion.
It s just funny how the perception changes when you are on the receiving part isn't it.
Pod |
Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:56:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Kingwood
Originally by: clbo Edited by: clbo on 03/05/2011 11:39:26 Edited by: clbo on 13/45/2911 25:61:99 Hi, me and my friends also fly hurricanes but we do not want to cripple the dual web + scrambler or our nice triple sensor booster fits setup by adding things like ecm/eccm.
CCP please nerf jammers because I cant zoom around at ridiculous speeds while locking down someone and skull **** him with this low sensor strength. Also I do not understand what support ship means, how I can use fof missiles, drones or remote sensor dampeners to keep out of combat a ship that's jamming 9 people at a time and that usually stays at around 70 km away from my auto cannons.
Edit:
Try flying solo for once and then fit an ECCM and still be viable in fights. You are hilariously dumb.
Waiting for that great solo falcon fit .... OH Pod |
clbo
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:00:00 -
[163]
Edited by: clbo on 03/05/2011 12:00:33
Originally by: Renarla .... - Make Sensor Dampening only have one of its two current functions, and give the other function to ECM, and increase the strength of both.
Also someone should teach you what scripts do.
Edit: Irony, none of that in here.
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clbo
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:04:00 -
[164]
And because I like to post so much, it never crossed your mind what would of happenerd if half your fleet had jammers instead of points.
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clbo
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:13:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Digger Nicks
Originally by: FT Diomedes
I'm a US Marine. I don't ****ing fight fair. **** E-honor. Charging into machine gun fire is stupid. If I can find a way to kill you where you don't stand a chance, I'm gonna do it. EVERYTIME. Learn to improvise, adapt, and overcome. If that means bringing your own EW boat to even the odds in your favor, then do that, just know that the next time I'm going to do something different to try to keep my edge.
I love you ( actually beefy marines but yeah).
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 12:31:00 -
[166]
Originally by: clbo And because I like to post so much, it never crossed your mind what would of happenerd if half your fleet had jammers instead of points.
You are making a good point. That would require bit more originality then these guys are obviously capable off. Pod |
Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.03 19:18:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Kingwood Actually, all of Genos agrees that Angel ships are overpowered (See, the nerf dramiel thread) and we hardly fly them at all. The last time we did mass angel gangs (Aside from Machariels) was February 2010, don't let that stop you from trying to change the subject of ECM balance because you don't want to lose your win button though.
Why is the Machariel exempt?
Quote: Please show me the unscannable PvP Machariel fit.
It's hard to show with CnP EFT action, but the gist is either Halos or sensor-strength implants, a sig-reducing Loki booster and mids full of ECCM or RECCM. Really irritating for awhile, off the Taisy gate in M-O, until some bright individual simply anchored cans at various positions off the gate so anyone could get an easy warp-in on them (them being WERPA Corp in this case).
I have no idea if you affiliated with them or not, but I do remember that ******ed bit of risk-free PvP.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.03 19:54:00 -
[168]
The last page on this thread is a very good example of why it's incredibly hard to have a balanced discussion about ECM. Too many incredibly stupid or terribly bad trolls. ---
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.05.03 21:50:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Mag''s on 03/05/2011 21:54:49
Originally by: Suitonia The last page on this thread is a very good example of why it's incredibly hard to have a balanced discussion about ECM. Too many incredibly stupid or terribly bad trolls.
May be an idea, for you to stop posting in them then. Just saying.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.03 22:53:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Suitonia The last page on this thread is a very good example of why it's incredibly hard to have a balanced discussion about ECM. Too many incredibly stupid or terribly bad trolls.
I'm not trolling, I'm asking what I feel is a legitimate question.
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Noisrevbus
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Posted - 2011.05.04 04:03:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Suitonia The last page on this thread is a very good example of why it's incredibly hard to have a balanced discussion about ECM. Too many incredibly stupid or terribly bad trolls.
Sadly, people from your own corp not only included but also a driving force in this very thread.
Other than that, it usually goes for forums in general and the best way about is to re-enter into interesting discussion again.
Make another good post, and i promise you that at least i will try to follow suit.
Good luck.
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Winter Aurnette
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Posted - 2011.05.04 18:40:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Winter Aurnette on 04/05/2011 18:40:21
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Marl Boro
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Posted - 2011.05.04 18:42:00 -
[173]
As a fairly new pilot to EVE I find posts such as these more helpful than most (including asking direct questions). Hearing discussions on both sides of the argument is an invaluable teaching tool.
But as a noob to all this I'll try to see if what I have learned so far is a fair and accurate representation of ECM:
1) ECM is a very powerful tool in EVE and can make a fight one sided. In order to fully take advantage of ECM boats knowing what is other side is bringing to the battle is vital, but requires prep time. ECM works amazingly against opponents who do not bring a variety of ships from different races.
2) The best way to counter ECM is to have ECM yourself. ECCM is effective but is a waste of a mid-slot if ECM is not in the equation. I must ask here - is this not the same for every form of EW? Modules to prevent it are wastes of slots?
3) People whine and complain about how good ECM is unless they have ECM in their fleets. As ECM has been a part of the game when I played the limited time that I did in 2007. How is it that by now people do not just diversify their fleets to require a ECM boat or counter boat (stealth bomber / cloak dps / dedicated tackle?) to bring balance? The complexity of pvp in EVE is what I enjoyed about the game and is pretty much why I have returned.
That is the just of what I have learned so far. Games with very small amounts of roles are very boring, PvP and PvE. I have found PvE in EVE to be amazing boring - bring big ship with guns and kill their ships zzz etc. The PvP is EVE has various different roles. DPS (long range, short range, mid range, fast, slow, tank, paper, etc) / Logistic (healing?) / CC (ecm and other ew's) / Tackling / etc. There seem to be so many different types of combinations of fleet builds and ship builds that almost anything could happen.
Anyway. That is what makes EVE alluring to me. Now I must stop reading forums and learn from experience.
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Prometheus Exenthal
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2011.05.04 20:18:00 -
[174]
countering ECM with ECM is not *countering*
- MY LATEST VIDEO - DEALING WITH IT PROMSRAGE.COM |
Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:08:00 -
[175]
The issue some have is that is doesn't scale as well as other effects; if you are solo, "solo" and very small gangs, ECM even in the form of drones can be overpowering. In medium to large gang, it's rather well-balanced.
The nerfs suggested by solo/small gang PvPers would cripple ECM's ability to work in larger fights (one lock allowed" would be OK for breaking reps? lol, lrn2logi). ECM as it stands today is overpowering for solo and very small gangs. CCP had to balance somewhere and sided with numbers
v0v
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.04 21:55:00 -
[176]
As i said.
i think falcon should have its jamming strength removed, and instead it has a grid-wide jamming module.
This way, it will be more balanced and usable in fleet warefare. while still being weaker in solololing.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.04 23:12:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 04/05/2011 23:13:43
Originally by: Straight Edged As i said.
i think falcon should have its jamming strength removed, and instead it has a grid-wide jamming module.
This way, it will be more balanced and usable in fleet warefare. while still being weaker in solololing.
The falcon seldom being used in large fleets has nothing to do with jam strength and everything to do with it's EHP and relative expense. Scorpions are used a helluva lot, often in mass (a 220 man shield BS fleet might have 40 or 50 Scorpions in it) to either jam out enemy logis (hard) or randomly jam out DPS ships (easy and hilarious).
There is already an AoE semi-ECM effect and it's... not really useful for much except getting your supercarrier untackled in lowsec.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.05 05:52:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Suitonia The last page on this thread is a very good example of why it's incredibly hard to have a balanced discussion about ECM. Too many incredibly stupid or terribly bad trolls.
1 It is not trolling that people have different opinions and think that your opinions [not personal] but presented by the members of your corporation are hypocritical. 2 This thread continues in a fine tradition of nonsensical whines that has been going on for a long time. http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1036387/page/1 Pod |
DingoEating Baby
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Posted - 2011.05.05 06:40:00 -
[179]
For the duration of this post, "small gang" will refer to "fleets of fewer than 10 pilots." Feel free to ignore this and continue to play trollololol.
Just wanted to sum it up for you guys.
ECM is broken in solo and small gang fights. One Falcon can effectively shut down an entire small gang that isn't sacrificing multiple mid slots to ECCM (and subsequently putting themselves at a severe disadvantage against a fleet that doesn't rely on a falcon). ECM is the reason a lot of fights don't happen in lowsec; if a fleet sees a falcon on d-scan or a known falcon pilot in local, they avoid the other fleet even if they have a falcon of their own. Because of this two evenly matched fleets that incorporate ECM will almost never willingly fight each other. Too much risk is involved. Note that fleeing from evenly matched fights is often justified by saying that everyone involved is a U.S. Marine and/or has a 12-inch Fleet Stabber.
ECM is not broken in large fleets, particularly when fleet sizes get into the hundreds. It's pretty easy to counter it with stacked ECCM, or snipers, or MORE ECM, or just plain running away.
However, let's compare the numbers: Less-than-10 people, vs. 40 to 3100-man engagements. CCP gets paid 4x-310x more by the nullsec crowd for whom ECM is balanced than by the vastly lower number of people who solo or fight in 10-man fleets. Therefore, no matter how broken ECM is in small gang warfare, CCP will never balance anything on the small scale; you simply don't matter enough to them for that to happen.
tl;dr stop complaining about ECM because even if you're right CCP will never do a thing about it.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.05.05 07:41:00 -
[180]
Originally by: DingoEating Baby ECM is broken in solo and small gang fights. One Falcon can effectively shut down an entire small gang that isn't sacrificing multiple mid slots to ECCM (and subsequently putting themselves at a severe disadvantage against a fleet that doesn't rely on a falcon).
If you're in a five-man gang - let alone a ten-man gang - and you have not brought at least one ship that can apply DPS at range, you are quite simply doing it wrong, are bad at PVP and deserve everything you get, whether it be hostile ECM, Scimitars or TD-Drakes - all of which your one-dimensional mob is incapable of dealing with.
There isn't much more to say, really. The tools are there, but the cavemen just stare at them blankly.
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