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DZeeta
Violent Solutions
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Posted - 2011.04.27 07:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DZeeta on 27/04/2011 07:08:22 TL;DR - How does ship replacement program work in your corp and what does your corp do?
This might not be the best place for this topic but I did not want to post it to CAOD for obvious reasons lol.
I am wondering what types of ship replacement programs you guys have, how is the tax rate and how does it work out for you all? In addition, please mention what your corporation does and how many ships it looses in a week/month(whatever seems more appropriate). The problem here is a PVP corp and Im trying to think of the best method to support its members while not raising taxes etc too high.
From the top of the head I can think of two options. They both replace only ships lost in fleet ops or corp related business.
First is the method where you replace the lost ship by giving the pilot who lost it the ISK or the ship back. Modules are covered by the insurance. I think this is quite fool-proof and safe method to do since you probably wouldnt need to have many ships in corp hangar for everyone to take. Just needs hefty corp wallet lol. It can work pretty well covering all the ships you choose, regardless of the meta levels.
The other method is ship borrowing program. The corp hangar has few of the each popular t1 ship in corp hangar. The pilot who wants to use something simply borrows it from there and insures it. If the ship is lost, the pilot sends the insurance ISK to the corp. While this method is not that good for the member as the previous, it still has its charms. The member would have to pay for the insurance cost and the modules if the ship blows. The corp would have to pay for the ship, but gets all the insurance cost back - this alone means that this method would work best for low tax corp or a corp that does not get its money thru taxes. The charm with this method is that a member has a wide array of ships to choose from and use.
I realise that these two are very rought models and need a lot of refining to be useful.
Please share your methods here and also, if you were not TL;DR then comment and find faults from mine.
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Taawuz
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Posted - 2011.04.27 07:14:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Taawuz on 27/04/2011 07:14:54 Lose a ship which is not failfitted to peeps, get hull money back.
Up to battlecruisers.
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Kiandoshia
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Posted - 2011.04.27 07:52:00 -
[3]
Every member of the corp pays 20-100m a month, depending on income and all losses sustained on corp related ops are replaced 100% as long as there is no faction/officer stuff involved =P
Ofc, that is not how they work but I'd be interested in knowing wether they will.
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Gavjack Bunk
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.04.27 09:46:00 -
[4]
If I lose a ship I get the opportunity to buy myself another.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 10:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Merouk Baas on 27/04/2011 10:15:37
I don't think any setup is sustainable through a prolonged war. You typically tax or get income for the ships program during peacetime and build up a reserve fund / reserve ships, so that when the war comes you're not wiped out. Of course, corp members have a tendency to want to see the benefits of their tax ISK right away during peacetime (meaning you have to spend your tax funds in a visible way that satisfies them), and then expect you to uphold your policies during war (with your own money, really).
As for the method, set up a list of ships and the amounts you're going to disburse for each. "Battleship type x - 30 million" type of thing. Each of your members buys the ship and gets the insurance back, and your 30 million helps them out with buying or fitting the next one. Except, each of your members is supposed to build up a cache of ships so it's available during wartime, so they shouldn't really rely on your reimbursement money.
Again, if they're buying ships on their own and seem excited about using them for some PVP fun, and your reimbursement program is like "hey, bonus" to them, those are the people you want to keep. Anyone who's nitpicking on prices or seems worried about being reimbursed will probably quit the corp at the first war (or when they lose their first ship during PVP), and won't be too eager to join fights either.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.04.27 10:17:00 -
[6]
My alliance has standard fits for ships to use. Use one of those ships with one of those fits and you get reimbursed or replaced. The amount depends on the ship so a hac might be 70m, a bs might be 120m, a logi loss is directly replaced with another fitted logi of the same type.
Complete logistics replacement is good, it encourages people to fly them more which means less overall need to fork out for reimbursable ships.
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Kyle Renton
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Posted - 2011.04.27 10:36:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kyle Renton on 27/04/2011 10:37:07 One thing that you are missing in you calculations is that a corp can insure ships. If you do that then as long as the ship is only passed between corp members and the corp the insurance remains valid, and so when the ship is lost the corp can get the ISK.
If you have the members borrow the ship and insure it themselves, you are going to have to insure it again every time it changes hands.
One of the best ways that I've seen is to have the corp split into teams that each have their own corp hangar. Usually these would be time based. Either use the corp hangar divisions or individual stations to allow you to control access.
By doing this, even if one person steals you are not losing a big chunk of items. You can still have a couple of divisions for capitals and BPOs etc that only directors can access.
Another advantage of this is that it allows you more control over getting standard fits used for corp ops, which is a great help to the FC.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.04.27 12:44:00 -
[8]
We don't have an official replacement policy. We help when we can and where we think we should. Stupid deaths are generally left to the player to recoup. We also have corp ships that we can produce for cost that players can hop into in a pinch. They're not so much to replace ships as they are there to give the now shipless pilot a means to get back into the game until such time as he can replace his lost ship.
However, if I could be arsed to administrate such a program I would probably offer corporate ship insurance to cover a percentage of the hull costs. I would not insure the cost of the hull for 100% as that removes any incentive for the player to be "careful" but, still motivating the player enough to take 'some' risks.
I would not insure mods as some people love to fit high isk mods on a pvp ship they know they're going to lose eventually. Then when they do lose it, it's a week before they can afford to replace it. Why would I want to enable this behavior?
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Henry Haphorn
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 12:50:00 -
[9]
Some alliances have a SRP that covers a fraction of the cost of the hull. The left over difference is covered by insurance.
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ROXGenghis
Missions Mining and Mayhem Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.04.27 13:03:00 -
[10]
Only replace ships that are critical to a good fleet composition but nobody wants to fly. Logis, bubblers, scouts, etc. This will encourage people to support the fleet rather than just bring their loldps ships and hitting F1. - sig |
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TorTorden
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.27 20:10:00 -
[11]
In my personal experience ship replacement programs either only covers worthless stuff or doesn't work at all, and as has been mentioned the members who fret about such programs won't be around for long, and when they do disappear nobody cries.
In truth a reimbursement program is just not feasible for two reasons, it would cost a lot of money to maintain (I.e really high taxes) and you would wind up with cookie cutter ships and all fitting decisions made by some alliance big wig. And whats the fun in that ?
I think it would be better in the long run for corp morale to have select methods of giving incentives for specific activities (you got podded 30 times last week (in fights of course) Take a bow, and have a cigar(read prize)) This can be made infinitely more amusing for all parties than huge tax rate followed with paperwork for the leadership and a bureaucracy for your members.
------------------------------------------------ There is no such thing as good or evil. Just an egotistic struggle for self empowerment. ------------------------------------------------ |
Dvomayn
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.04.29 12:12:00 -
[12]
The only way reimbursement should be handles IMO is to only reimburse HIC, DIC, Logi, and other suicide tackle. People get sloppy and lazy when they know their ships are going to be handed back after each screw up. Better to make them learn now and have a better fleet later than continue to cater to their mediocrity and rage when your fleet is ****. If a player is so poor they can't afford ships, fly one of the reimbursed ones so they can be useful or laugh at them and tell them to learn to make money better because it's not terribly hard.
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Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.29 12:25:00 -
[13]
If I die in a fire, i get money that combined with platinum insurance is enough to buy me a new one fitted off of alliance contracts.
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Florestan Bronstein
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.04.29 12:41:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 29/04/2011 12:45:37
Ship replacement from taxes won't work well - you can use it to encourage use of certain ships (Logistics, HICs, ...) but unless you have real carebears (who refuse to pvp) a ship replacement program paid for with taxes only means redistributing from the most active members in your corp to those who just log in 2 hours each evening to get their pvp fix.
Usually ship replacement is paid for by taxing sources of revenue that would not be accessible to individual members on their own (the most obvious one is moon mining) - that way the redistributive aspect of the subsidy is less obvious (because nobody feels as if the money gets taken from his wallet).
Ship replacement programs are a very powerful tool for enforcing the use of standardized fittings - reimbursing only "correct" fittings or having steep discounts on the reimbursement value for "wrong" modules is much more effective than FCs writing dozens of forum posts asking members to train for the right fittings.
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