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Warev Charante
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Posted - 2011.04.27 21:30:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Warev Charante on 27/04/2011 21:33:04 Dear ladies and gents,
I am new to Eve and at the moment I am still messing around in the tutorials but soon I will move onto level 1 missions and I will no doubt need an upgrade on the ship I am flying. I am Gallente based and a friend of mine suggested I learn to fly a Myrmidon and learn all the support skills. Is that a decent plan or do you have any other suggestions? I don't play that much so I do have the time to learn the necessary skills. Thanks upfront.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 21:35:00 -
[2]
Yes, a Myrm is a good choice for missions...I hear. I'm still in a destroyer (after my cruiser got sploded, a Vexor), but I plan to get a Myrm some day soon. I just read a great article over at TenTonHammer about how to fit one for missions: linkage
~Gnosis~ |
Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 21:44:00 -
[3]
Going with the Gallente drone ships, the following are sufficient for missions:
Incursus frigate for level 1 missions Vexor cruiser (with drones) for level 2 missions Myrmidon battlecruiser (with drones) for level 3 missions Dominix battleship (with drones) for level 4 mission
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ISD Etetia
ISD STAR
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Posted - 2011.04.27 21:48:00 -
[4]
Myrmidon is a great ship, and I would Definitly recommend it. You could take a look at the ingame recommended certificates when showing info on the ship, to get an idea how to fit it.
On that note, you might want to check out a ship fitting guide for new players on the evelopedia which one of my colleages of ISD:STAR has been working on:
New player ship fitting guide
As Merouk already pointed out, Vexor would be a good first step before purchasing the Myrmidon, as it's a cheaper alternative that follows the same basic idea of using drones as primary weapon. Good luck!
ISD Etetia Commander ISD STAR |
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 21:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Merouk Baas Going with the Gallente drone ships, the following are sufficient for missions:
Incursus frigate for level 1 missions Vexor cruiser (with drones) for level 2 missions Myrmidon battlecruiser (with drones) for level 3 missions Dominix battleship (with drones) for level 4 mission
This is a great path...one I was following up to L3's (wasn't sure yet what I was going to do for L4's, thanks for the tip).
~Gnosis~ |
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.27 21:59:00 -
[6]
Having just done this about 30 days ago, I URGE you to follow this advice.
1. Do all/whichever tutorials/career missions you like. I suggest you do all, but that's just me.
2. Upgrade to a Destroyer. They usually run fairly cheap and are equipped similarly to frigates - just with more slots. Any half-decent Destroyer will make cream cheese out of level 1 missions and will only run you 600k-1M ISK to but and fully fit.
3. Take your newly-minted Destroyer to Arnon and do the Sisters of Eve epic arc. It's about 50-51 missions total, but many of them are just FedEx/travel missions. If you are diligent, you can get through most of the arc in a single evening [approx. 4 hours]. The vast majority of the combat missions are cake - but you should take extreme care with "Burning Down the Hive" [scram drones and heavy incoming damage in Room 2] and "Our Man Dagan" [his tank is extremely difficult to break - you could be chasing this guy around for a while]. With respect to those missions, I can't recommend enough that you should start training for cruisers as soon as you can so that you can get into one by the time you do "Burning Down the Hive". In a cruiser, you will be virtually invincible in all these missions.
All in all, the SoE arc will net you about 7-10M ISK in rewards [based on your Social skill levels]. Though it will fluctuate, the bounties, loot and salvage can easily get you another 20M ISK, depending on luck and some fortuitous lootable structures.
4. As soon as you are done with the arc, head back to a nice, central missioning system w/ high quality level 2 agents - preferably one that has level 3 and 4 agents within a jump or two. You will be spending quite some time in this general vicinity if you choose to mission.
Disclaimer: This plan is probably for someone that wants to focus on combat.
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Warev Charante
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Posted - 2011.04.27 22:02:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the pointers; they are extremely helpful. There are so many different ships out there that it's hard at times to keep an overview.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.27 22:05:00 -
[8]
L4's can be done in the Ishtar HAC also, if you've trained for T2 ships like it.
The Dominix is a big slow ship that can take punishment (especially if you use its power grid for the armor tank - and thus fit 4 railguns instead of 6 and rely on drones for damage), and it's relatively cheap. A lot of mission runners try to have it be cap-stable, and to do that you need to fill the mid slots with Cap Rechargers (and also have some cap control circuit rigs), which means you won't have the room for an afterburner and/or the drone support modules (Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Drone Navigation Computer). This is why the Dominix Navy Issue is popular - it has an extra mid slot and just a little bit more CPU and grid to fit either an afterburner or drone modules.
The Ishtar HAC solves the "slow" problem. It can do the same DPS as a Dominix, and if you fit it with an armor tank and a good Afterburner, it gets just enough damage reduction from its speed and small size that it can take just about the same punishment as the Dominix (even though it only has cruiser hitpoints rather than battleship hitpoints). And it does all this while going 500 m/s. It's vulnerable to frigates and/or anything that webs you, though, so the missions are a bit more exciting as they start.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.04.28 06:02:00 -
[9]
Note that a well fit myrmidon can do lvl4 missions, but the damage output is slow. Similar issue as with the drake. You can do them, it just takes time. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.04.28 07:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: foksieloy Note that a well fit myrmidon can do lvl4 missions, but the damage output is slow. Similar issue as with the drake. You can do them, it just takes time.
You can do SOME. It's not really feasible to do the heavy combat missions [Gur/Angel Extravaganza, The Blockade, etc...] in a Myrm or Drake, and those are the ones you really look forward to getting.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2011.04.28 10:58:00 -
[11]
Just want to second getting into a destroyer for your level I missions. Makes your life much easier.
Fit long range guns, a good afterburner, kite the rats and all the Level I missions are cake.
. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.04.28 11:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Merouk Baas L4's can be done in the Ishtar HAC also, if you've trained for T2 ships like it.
The Dominix is a big slow ship that can take punishment (especially if you use its power grid for the armor tank - and thus fit 4 railguns instead of 6 and rely on drones for damage), and it's relatively cheap. A lot of mission runners try to have it be cap-stable, and to do that you need to fill the mid slots with Cap Rechargers (and also have some cap control circuit rigs), which means you won't have the room for an afterburner and/or the drone support modules (Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Drone Navigation Computer). This is why the Dominix Navy Issue is popular - it has an extra mid slot and just a little bit more CPU and grid to fit either an afterburner or drone modules.
The Ishtar HAC solves the "slow" problem. It can do the same DPS as a Dominix, and if you fit it with an armor tank and a good Afterburner, it gets just enough damage reduction from its speed and small size that it can take just about the same punishment as the Dominix (even though it only has cruiser hitpoints rather than battleship hitpoints). And it does all this while going 500 m/s. It's vulnerable to frigates and/or anything that webs you, though, so the missions are a bit more exciting as they start.
A few corrections : Ishtar has only 1/2 of what a domi can put out since domi can (and should) fit a full rack of 350m rails which pump it's damage to somewhere around 900dps. Reason why navy domi is popular is because it can sport a wicked shield tank with 425mm rails while having an impressive dps, regular domi cannot fit 425mm rails leaving it with a shorter range. In most cases upgrading to navy domi isn't worth it because a regular domi can do the same with 10x less price even if you lose some 20km from your (rail) engagement range in the process.
Having no AB/mwd isn't an issue since you cannot move with sentries anyway.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
My Postman
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Posted - 2011.04.28 11:14:00 -
[13]
As beeing gallente your carrer path will be:
L1: Incursus, Catalyst L2: Vexor or Thorax (Cruiser), Ishkur (Assault Frigate) L3: Myrmidon (Battlecruiser), Ishtar (HAC) L4: Dominix (Battleship), Ishtar, Kronos (Marauder)
All of those (maybe asside the Thorax) are droneboats, so every single skill point invested in drones, will not be lost. All of those are armor tankers (possible shield fit for ishtar and dominix) so train armor tanking and the relevant support skills.
Hope this helps. Welcome to eve.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.04.28 15:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Traejun DiSanctis
Originally by: foksieloy Note that a well fit myrmidon can do lvl4 missions, but the damage output is slow. Similar issue as with the drake. You can do them, it just takes time.
You can do SOME. It's not really feasible to do the heavy combat missions [Gur/Angel Extravaganza, The Blockade, etc...] in a Myrm or Drake, and those are the ones you really look forward to getting.
Nonsense, you simply haven't skilled up enough yet. A heavily skilled Mrym will set out as much DPS via drones as a Dominix. Get your armor tanking skills up to be able to use T2 hardeners (Hull Upgrades 5) with T2 Drones and Advanced drone Interfacing to 5. 250mm prototypes will set down marginally as much DPS as the Battleship versions.
I honestly prefer the tanking ability of the mrym to any of the Gallente Battleships. Triple Repped Myrm for the Win.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.04.28 16:02:00 -
[15]
Work toward this fit.
HI
250mm Prototype Rail x 6 (This will require lots of skills to cut down on cpu and power usage of mods) If you can't fit 6 of these, drop down to 200mm or even 150 duals till you can get at least 5 of the 250s.
Med
Meta 2 Afterburner (YB version i think, just look) Cap Recharger II x 4 (If you can't use the T2 version yet, look for meta 4 version)
Low
Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II x 2 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Mission Specific Hardener x 2 (For Ex. Thermal Hardener II , Magnetic Hardener II(Kinetic Damage Mod) for Serpentis)
RIGS
Capacitor Control Circuit x 2 Drone Range Enhancer x 1
I may have specific names incorrect so i inserted additional info, but you get the drift.
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Leetha Layne
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Posted - 2011.04.28 16:46:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Leetha Layne on 28/04/2011 16:47:15 Myrm is great for level 3 and even some level 4 missions. But, don't rush! Get those drone skills up first! With Gallente, it's all about the drones.
Also, 200mm is more than enough for a drone boat.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.04.29 10:02:00 -
[17]
And for the recors 5x hammers isn't exactly what I would call effective in lvl 4's, a domi can field 5x heavies where myrm can only field a max of 4. So unless you like doing missions for like 4 hours a piece leave BC's to lvl 3's.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Jose Black
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 12:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Baneken And for the recors 5x hammers isn't exactly what I would call effective in lvl 4's, a domi can field 5x heavies where myrm can only field a max of 4.
It can field 3 at most. The maximum in efficiency would be a mix of 1 light, 2 medium and 2 heavy ones tho. For taking out (elite) frigates you can still have more light drones in bay.
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Jose Black
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 12:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Reeper 2435 Nonsense, you simply haven't skilled up enough yet. A heavily skilled Mrym will set out as much DPS via drones as a Dominix. Get your armor tanking skills up to be able to use T2 hardeners (Hull Upgrades 5) with T2 Drones and Advanced drone Interfacing to 5.
Nonsense? Yes indeed - your post is. What you were thinking probably is that a heavily skilled Myrmidon will be as good as a badly skilled Dominix. A Dominix has the same bonuses on drones, can field a full set of heavy ones and also bonused large turrets. Even if you fit medium ones it still has the same ability with them (no bonuses, same amount).
Originally by: Reeper 2435 I honestly prefer the tanking ability of the mrym to any of the Gallente Battleships. Triple Repped Myrm for the Win.
I guess that is because you never heavily skilled one. I know from experience that a 800 dps Megathron doesn't need much of a tank at all. The point of a mission still is to blow up stuff, not to tank it.
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Warev Charante
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Posted - 2011.04.29 13:21:00 -
[20]
I just wanted to thank you all for giving me all these tips. Although Eve contains a lot of struggle and rivalry you still have a very helpful approach towards newcomers and for this I salute you.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.04.29 14:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jose Black Edited by: Jose Black on 29/04/2011 12:48:37
Originally by: Reeper 2435 Nonsense, you simply haven't skilled up enough yet. A heavily skilled Mrym will set out as much DPS via drones as a Dominix.
Nonsense? Yes indeed - your post is. What you were trying to say probably is that a heavily skilled Myrmidon will be as good as a badly skilled Dominix. A Dominix has the same bonuses on drones, but can field a full set of heavy ones and also has bonused large turrets. Even if you fit medium turrets it still has the same ability with them (no bonuses, same amount).
Don't be a hatin in front of the new playas, shows no class. LOL. First, heavy drones are slower than grass growing so the time it takes for them to travel is offset by the speed of mediums. I.E. They get there 3x faster applying DPS 3x sooner if they have to play chase the npc. The second point here is that the myrm has no damage bonuses to turrets so if he trains projectiles and runs the correct ammo for the mission NPCs he may hit them nearly as hard as those Domi Rails.
Originally by: Reeper 2435 I honestly prefer the tanking ability of the mrym to any of the Gallente Battleships. Triple Repped Myrm for the Win.
I guess that is because you never heavily skilled one. I know from experience that a 800 dps Megathron doesn't need much of a tank at all. The point of a mission still is to blow up stuff, not to tank it. Also the double large repairer Dominix is all you need if you prefer the way of the turtle.
Everyone is an authority i suppose, actually i have battleships 5, T2 large hybrids, and all that stuff. But this isn't about me or you, this is about helping a new player we will one day be shooting at to help his game out.
My best advice for new players is survivability. Being the alpha king of guns doesn't mean diddly who when one of those scram frigs has you pinned and the NPCs are cutting through your ship life a fat boy with a bag of popcorn. These folks are new players who can't survive, so they need defense and slower DPS. I've seen many new folks cry over their first myrm loss which can hit the 60,000,000 isk mark and all they worked for over a month is now sitting in a little wreck triangle in front of them because they were instructed to pursue DPS instead of tank.
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Ilkahn
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.29 14:36:00 -
[22]
Reeps pro bro.
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Jose Black
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.04.29 16:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Reeper 2435 Don't be a hatin in front of the new playas, shows no class.
I really don't mean to, but felt the need to correct you a bit. By the way you were the one using the word nonsense, and you can read up my opinion about it. You mention a triple rep Myrmidon and yet your fit has only two. Now you say its about drone travel time, yet originally it was about skills. You write about 250mm prototypes and now its about skilling different weapon types.
Originally by: Reeper 2435 Everyone is an authority i suppose
I prefer math as an authority. And I am well aware about the small factors besides raw fitting numbers.
Originally by: Reeper 2435 My best advice for new players is survivability. Being the alpha king of guns doesn't mean diddly who when one of those scram frigs has you pinned and the NPCs are cutting through your ship life a fat boy with a bag of popcorn.
Now that reads better than my Myrm generally beats any Gallente battleship. It is actually good advice. Once you get to know tactics, opponents and your equip (including skills) you switch tanking for damaging capability.
Tl;dr: Carefully think before you write and make sure you make sense before you call nonsense on others.
A new player should not be rushing into big ships. That is for the reason alone that you can reasonably train for a smaller one in a much shorter time. A bigger ship doesn't make up for missing skills - at all. But if properly skilled and piloted by someone who knows what he's doing a battleship is a more efficient mission runner platform than a battlecruiser.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.04.29 17:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jose Black
You mention a triple rep Myrmidon and yet your fit has only two. Now you say its about drone travel time, yet originally it was about skills. You write about 250mm prototypes and now its about skilling different weapon types.
1. 3 x rep is PVP (we're not going there) 2. DPS for drones will calculate into travel time. Watching heavies take 10 to 15 seconds to get to target when mediums get there in 3-5 seconds it gives your 7 to 12 seconds (drones fire at 4s intervals) more damage on target. My mediums kill most targets in the same time that it takes the heavies to travel and engage. 3. The comment about weapons was to you, not the new player (i would discourage it for my own reasons).
Originally by: Jose Black
Originally by: Reeper 2435 My best advice for new players is survivability.....
.... It is actually good advice. Once you get to know tactics, opponents and your equip (including skills) you switch tanking for damaging capability.
thank you, we both agree on something LOL.
Originally by: Jose Black Tl;dr: Carefully think before you write and make sure you make sense before you call nonsense on others.
nonsense wasn't directed at you personally, but towards conforming thought that a battlecruiser can't do lvl 4s efficiently. I'd also like to point out that i consider your comment quite rude and self important.
Originally by: Jose Black
A new player should not be rushing into big ships..... A bigger ship doesn't make up for missing skills...
Agree on 2 things now, at this rate we'll be BFF.
Originally by: Jose Black a battleship is a more efficient mission runner platform than a battlecruiser.
I totally disagree. But i will acknowledge that there are a few select missions that work better in a battleship. But 90% of them i can finish in nearly the same time in a battlecruiser. It also depends on where you mission. If you do null sec or low sec missions, BC's are the way to go. BS's are slow and easy to tackle before they can typically escape
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.04.29 20:44:00 -
[25]
Also if you can field 5 heavies , you might as well use 5x sentries I prefer garde II's. 5x hammers II's can kill a BS (slowly) and if it happens to be a say pope or a higher BS (800k-1,2mil) then good luck getting past even it's shield regen. There is one thing however which is that 5x hammers II's are definitely better then 5x ogre I's, so don't even bother trying to use T1 heavies they're simply just that crappy.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.04.29 20:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Reeper 2435 2. DPS for drones will calculate into travel time. Watching heavies take 10 to 15 seconds to get to target when mediums get there in 3-5 seconds it gives your 7 to 12 seconds (drones fire at 4s intervals) more damage on target. My mediums kill most targets in the same time that it takes the heavies to travel and engage.
Mediums can't break the tank on some mission rats at all. For many level 4s you'll want 5 heavies or 5 sentries if you're going to take the "drones ARE my guns" path. I guess you could make up the difference with guns, but if you're doing that then the lost time isn't that important anyhow.
Basically, you can do level 4s in a Myrm in about the same way you can do level 3s in an assault frigate -- sure, it's possible, and good for when you're just really bored, but if you're wanting to actually do the missions for isk purposes then you want a ship actually in the proper power bracket (in this case, the Dominix). ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.04.29 21:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: Reeper 2435 2. DPS for drones will calculate into travel time. Watching heavies take 10 to 15 seconds to get to target when mediums get there in 3-5 seconds it gives your 7 to 12 seconds (drones fire at 4s intervals) more damage on target. My mediums kill most targets in the same time that it takes the heavies to travel and engage.
Mediums can't break the tank on some mission rats at all. For many level 4s you'll want 5 heavies or 5 sentries if you're going to take the "drones ARE my guns" path. I guess you could make up the difference with guns, but if you're doing that then the lost time isn't that important anyhow.
Basically, you can do level 4s in a Myrm in about the same way you can do level 3s in an assault frigate -- sure, it's possible, and good for when you're just really bored, but if you're wanting to actually do the missions for isk purposes then you want a ship actually in the proper power bracket (in this case, the Dominix).
ummm... are we talking the same game?? |
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