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Cassius Longinus
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:35:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
Did you not defend Sansha Kuvakei and his loyalists while he was forming a wormhole in Promised Land? Have you not, on multiple occassions, prevented anti-Nation forces from retaliating against incursions? Have your members not pledged allegiance to Sansha's Nation in local communication channels?
We have, in all instances, engaged in what we considered the most effective way to kill as many people as possible, which serves our ends. Furthermore, the blatherings of idiots in `local' do not constitute policy, regardless if the idiots are mine or yours.
You can review the original threads on those topics to see many neutral observers commenting the same- we have never been coy regarding our rules of engagement or diplomatic posture.
It should also be well known that we lack the strict command and control that institutions like Star Fraction exercise... our limits on pilot behavior are strictly related to FOF/Standings analysis. If we DID have capital assets helping dear Jules, I can only assume in their twisted minds, that they were going to get some kills out of it. I've personally always felt that the best use of capital ships are as wrecks.
If Star Fraction has few freinds, then Rote has less, but VETO ARE our friends, so I imagine escalation with them implies escalation with us. The degree to which Jade feels more important because of that is out of my hands.
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Jandice Ymladris
Caldari DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:38:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Jandice Ymladris on 18/05/2011 17:41:34 Jade Constantine, some modesty and sitting back & overthinking would help you a long way. Currently you're only making more enemies, and if you keep things up like this, you'll soon stand alone, loosing everyone's support. Several of your accusations show clear lack of knowledge/intel about your opponents, or you suffer from a very sharp Black/White image of the world. A lack of support for one side, doesn't mean they support the other side. I have fought during the Sansha Campaign, and if there's one thing I learned it's that there's alot more grey, then white & black. It would be wise for you to accept other shades then black & white in this warmongering you're attempting, it could make you friends. And friends can give you support.
On Rote kapelle & Veto I can say one thing about their sansha loyalties: they're non-existent. I saw them more as a wildcard during the Sansha Campaign. If they fought at our side, Good! If they decided it was more beneficient to shoot us, then best either drive them out or take the hint and bide our time. They are pirates & mercenaries, their loyalty lies with good fights & good profit. -------------- Cleaning up wrecks others leave behind! Got to keep space clean! |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:52:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/05/2011 17:52:20
(wrong colour will answer the other one first)
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cassius Longinus If we DID have capital assets helping dear Jules, I can only assume in their twisted minds, that they were going to get some kills out of it.
Hugging a defensive tower screen at 1 meter while repping incapped guns with carriers is a great way to get kills I hear.
Originally by: Cassius Longinus If Star Fraction has few friends, then Rote has less, but VETO ARE our friends, so I imagine escalation with them implies escalation with us.
I should hope so too. Otherwise how else do you expect to recruit Verone's late night timezone out from under his feet while he isn't looking ?
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:58:00 -
[95]
Most amusing how this is all unfolding. Good luck proping up Moira. They will need a LOT of propping up.
Got a dispute? Take it to court with the CCCNP! |
Kaneye Havit
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 18:32:00 -
[96]
This may be the first time I've spoken up on the IGS, but it needs to be said: Whoever says "SF is not open to diplomacy" is sadly mistaken.
A single incident of unprovoked aggression on our ships (or clear statements of hostile intent) is enough to get set -10.
It takes relatively little to have that -10 reset to neutral.
Our diplomats are standing by to take your calls.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 19:00:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Kaneye Havit Whoever says "SF is not open to diplomacy" is sadly mistaken.
Mixed Metaphor was never offered the option of diplomacy. Not once. The first we ever heard of Star Fraction's status towards us were libelous calumny on the IGS, open and entirely false accusations of collusion or sympathy with the Amarr Empire, all of which were in any case completely unneccessary to mention given that it was very clear you had made the decision to set us -10 first and sought justification after the fact. We were not contacted about this beforehand and the most recent piece of "evidence" that you cited was a statement that was (at the time of the standings change) over two years old, made while I was in a different corporation. We were never contacted to allow our side of the story to be voiced, never asked our current views on the subject of controversy. The only private communication we ever received from Star Fraction was a notice from Jade telling us that the change had already been made.
Never, at any point, did any diplomacy enter into the matter of the relationship between Mixed Metaphor and Star Fraction. A decision was made, justification was sought, action was taken. There was no dialogue, there was no discussion, there was no negotiation, there was no compromise. There was no diplomacy.
Please do not interpret this post as an indication that we consider Star Fraction's opinion of us to be important - Star Fraction does not and will never possess the ability to impact on our corporation's mission. I just want to make it clear that Star Fraction is, indeed, not open to the prospect of diplomacy if it does not suit them to be. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 19:05:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor was never offered the option of diplomacy. Not once. The first we ever heard of Star Fraction's status towards us were libelous calumny on the IGS, open and entirely false accusations of collusion or sympathy with the Amarr Empire, all of which were in any case completely unneccessary to mention given that it was very clear you had made the decision to set us -10 first and sought justification after the fact. We were not contacted about this beforehand and the most recent piece of "evidence" that you cited was a statement that was (at the time of the standings change) over two years old, made while I was in a different corporation. We were never contacted to allow our side of the story to be voiced, never asked our current views on the subject of controversy. The only private communication we ever received from Star Fraction was a notice from Jade telling us that the change had already been made.
Never, at any point, did any diplomacy enter into the matter of the relationship between Mixed Metaphor and Star Fraction. A decision was made, justification was sought, action was taken. There was no dialogue, there was no discussion, there was no negotiation, there was no compromise. There was no diplomacy.
Please do not interpret this post as an indication that we consider Star Fraction's opinion of us to be important - Star Fraction does not and will never possess the ability to impact on our corporation's mission. I just want to make it clear that Star Fraction is, indeed, not open to the prospect of diplomacy if it does not suit them to be.
*ChipMo rolls about laughing.
Oh my, your almost as self absorbed as Mr Soter.
Got a dispute? Take it to court with the CCCNP! |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 19:11:00 -
[99]
I will take your lack of recognisable rebuttal as tacit acknowledgement that my statement was true.
Thank you. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.18 19:33:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Jade Constantine ôhelp Soter cook the books by any means necessary.ö
Speaking of cooking the books, are you ever planning to post all of your losses to your public records, or do capsules lost to Rote Kapelle with Gorion Wassenar landing the final blow not count? ____________________ GM Sunshine > oops Neurotica > Hate to see a GM in your gang say 'oops'
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.18 19:51:00 -
[101]
Especially ones I'm involved with.
This whole imbroglio is quite amusing. ----- *results may vary*
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:02:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Bacchanalian
Originally by: Jade Constantine ôhelp Soter cook the books by any means necessary.ö
Speaking of cooking the books, are you ever planning to post all of your losses to your public records, or do capsules lost to Rote Kapelle with Gorion Wassenar landing the final blow not count?
The capsule loss is already posted. Not sure what you are talking about. Rather pathetic attempt at spin though Bacchanalian, you are getting a little stale in your old age.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:07:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris I just want to make it clear that Star Fraction is, indeed, not open to the prospect of diplomacy if it does not suit them to be.
If you want to protest your standing and assert your genuine independence then feel free to contact a diplomatic officer of the Fraction.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:39:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 18/05/2011 21:40:51 There is nothing to protest. You made some accusations which were verifiably untrue to support a decision which had already been made prior to any discussion of exactly why you were making it. There really was no justification behind the standings change other than the broadly true fact that they're your standings and you can do whatever you want with them, which, in essence, I respect - no, no, respect is slightly too strong a word for this, acknowledge seems more appropriate. I acknowledge that they're you're standings and you can do whatever it is you please with them. Our objection was never that we felt wrongfully threatened (we didn't) or that we were upset at being on Star Fraction's redlist (we weren't) - it was that you resorted to calumny and falsehood to justify a decision which could far more easily and less disrespectfully have been summed up with "it's our standings list and we can do whatever the hell we like with them".
Again, I must reiterate that it is not Star Fraction's decision to set Mixed Metaphor red that we have contention with, it was the fact that you knowingly lied with intent to defame - a lie openly refuted by both the very people whose relationship with Mixed Metaphor the lie was intended to harm, and the people with which we were accused of sympathising, even though they would probably have profited more by supporting it.
Given that we were never - not once - consulted or invited to provide our own arguments during deliberations over this matter (assuming that deliberations took place, and it wasn't merely you deciding something and everyone else rubber-stamping it) I strongly suspect any attempt to engage in, ahem, "diplomacy" with Star Fraction will be futile.
Just in case it isn't, our single demand is very simple: a binding public retraction (in its own thread) of any and all statements or comments by Star Fraction personnel that Mixed Metaphor or any of its personnel harbour or have ever harboured sympathy for, or colluded with, the Amarr Empire or its loyalists in any attempt to spread its ideologies, expand its borders or oppress the peoples of other nations. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:42:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris There is nothing to protest.
In which case I suggest you shut up go away or meet us in space.
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Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:51:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Never, at any point, did any diplomacy enter into the matter of the relationship between Mixed Metaphor and Star Fraction. A decision was made, justification was sought, action was taken. There was no dialogue, there was no discussion, there was no negotiation, there was no compromise. There was no diplomacy.
Ah, Mr. Ixiris, exactly the same happened to Angel Wing and myself. As my involvement with Star Fraction did mostly concern debates here on the IGS, and to be honest, I believe your opposition consists of mostly words too, it is my belief that Star Fraction feels threatened by those who raise their voice against them on the IGS. Even half-witted Gallenteans as yourself. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:53:00 -
[107]
In this thread our old enemies in Rote Kapelle are joined by Merdaneth and Andreus. I'm sure they feel quite spoiled by the support.
Seriously.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:04:00 -
[108]
Oh no, please don't think I'm supporting Rote Kapelle. I have absolutely no love for those guys (although, admittedly, I have no hate for them), and roughly the same goes for Moira. We're painting in broad strokes here, Jade. There are a lot of people who don't like you, and it's not like we all have a secret club with a hidden tree fort. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:08:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Oh no, please don't think I'm supporting Rote Kapelle. I have absolutely no love for those guys (although, admittedly, I have no hate for them)
Didn't you already say you were supporting Veto in this very thread? I honestly have no idea what you are bleating about at this point.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:09:00 -
[110]
I never said anything of the sort. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:13:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris So you're officially going after Veto now? Well, that's all the excuse I need to get involved.
I wonder at this point if you are confusing yourself.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:15:00 -
[112]
That statement never indicated whose interest I intended to represent.
Of course, I never said that I wasn't working with Veto, either... ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:16:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris That statement never indicated whose interest I intended to represent. Of course, I never said that I wasn't working with Veto, either...
Well since we think you are a imperialist lacky considered shoot on sight by our organization it was a fair assumption whose side you'd be on. We certainly don't want you on ours.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:19:00 -
[114]
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:22:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Hugging a defensive tower screen at 1 meter while repping incapped guns with carriers is a great way to get kills I hear.
Would have been had some people bothered to engage us...
I might be looking in the Star Fraction's direction. ___
Chaotic Dreams |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:24:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Hugging a defensive tower screen at 1 meter while repping incapped guns with carriers is a great way to get kills I hear.
Would have been had some people bothered to engage us...
I might be looking in the Star Fraction's direction.
Why in space would anyone engage a carrier on the edge of tower shields with half a dozen logistics ships? Its not like you can't just scuttle inside the defense screen like so many dung-beetles the moment anything looks at you strangely. Try risking your carriers in open space next time.
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:46:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris ...it's not like we all have a secret club with a hidden tree fort.
Well, now your DEFINITELY not getting in.
/me pulls up the rope ladder. ----- *results may vary*
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.18 22:47:00 -
[118]
Hey, I kept the secret tree fort a secret, and I learnt that stupid secret handshake! You owe me! ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.18 23:46:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Why in space would anyone engage a carrier on the edge of tower shields with half a dozen logistics ships? Its not like you can't just scuttle inside the defense screen like so many dung-beetles the moment anything looks at you strangely. Try risking your carriers in open space next time.
...Really. You're going to claim we would have ran off... 'Scuttled' as it were... Despite your group being the ones who fled...
I guess our force was just too much for your three Falcons. You'd think with the ability to mitigate as much damage as you had, you'd at least try, but it's fine. I can understand why you didn't. After all, trying is the first step towards failure.
___
Chaotic Dreams |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.05.18 23:57:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino ...Really. You're going to claim we would have ran off... 'Scuttled' as it were... Despite your group being the ones who fled... I guess our force was just too much for your three Falcons. You'd think with the ability to mitigate as much damage as you had, you'd at least try, but it's fine. I can understand why you didn't. After all, trying is the first step towards failure.
Yes I am certainly claiming that your group was positioned to scuttle inside the Moira Tower shields the moment anything that could possibly threaten you appeared. You are a member of an immensely risk-adverse organization that never fights remotely risky engagements. Your masters market this as combat prowess and to a degree it is. But do not attempt to claim you are any different than any other nullsec enclosurist seeking to sack the deck with advantage before you dare creep our of your shells.
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