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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.07 22:46:00 -
[61]
Guys, today I tricked a pirate into joining my Incursion running gang and ganked his/her Drake.
This means I will punch you in the face IRL.
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Mortania
Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.07 22:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Siberys The strong and ruthless get ahead, while the weak are ground to dust.
From what I've read, this is a line oft repeated by Satanists.
Take of that what you will.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.07 22:52:00 -
[63]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 07/05/2011 22:54:25
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 No it isn't. Role-playing a jerk is just an excuse to be a jerk.
Can be yes, but doesn't have to be no. Otherwise, we're back to the whole idea that Arnold is a mass-murderer because that's how he behaves in his movies.
It sounds like you don't really understand what "role-playing" meansą
No, killing someone in a game doesn't make you a murderer. No where did I state something even remotely close to this.
Arnold has a script he's following. If he punches someone that someone knows the punch is coming, yes, just as a miner should expect he's going to get killed in 0.0.
However, if Arnold got a hard-on for punching someone or gets off-screen pleasure from physically or emotionally harming people, then he has psychological issues, just as someone enjoying bathing in "tears".
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Roosterton
The 57th Overlanders
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Posted - 2011.05.07 22:55:00 -
[64]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
My point is that this is completly IRRELEVANT to the topic of discussion. I am talking about YOUR behavior, not the victim's behavior. I'm talking about YOU being a jerk. Listen man, a bully always has an excuse on why he does what he does. Usually his excuse is that it's the victim's fault for allowing himself to be bullied. I see that excuse thrown around here all the time. The least you could do (and I don't mean you personally) is take responsibility for YOUR actions.
Incorrect. One of the main points of the article linked in the OP is that if the victim doesn't like it, it's griefing. My victim (the guy I blew up) didn't like it (evidenced by how he was whining in local) so therefore, that idiot thinks it's griefing, which also means, that idiot thinks I'm a horrible person IRL.
Let me use a simple tennis analogy for you:
What the Massively Poster thinks is wrong: Serving insanely strong serves down the center which are really hard to return. The other player doesn't like it, so therefore it must be griefing! (But in reality, it's just game mechanics, and working as intended - in an EVE sense, canflipping or piracy)
What is actually wrong: Climbing over the net and beating your opponent to death with your tennis racquet. (Cheating - in an EVE sense, botting, /sphere/ing, buying isk) -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Haquer
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:04:00 -
[65]
CCP supports greifing. If you don't like it, this isn't the game for you.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:06:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Haquer CCP supports greifing. If you don't like it, this isn't the game for you.
Depends what kind of griefing, they don't support newb bashing for instance. So no, you're not 100% correct.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:07:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Telvani on 07/05/2011 23:09:27 I see what the article is getting at but the author's issue is understanding eve, if you think its ok to kill people in FPS games because that's the aim of the game then the same logic should apply to Eve.
Eve is a sandbox, we decide what the aim of the game is, and If I decide for a few weeks that inflicting the greatest ISK damage I can to a highsec mining corp or enforcing the if-your-highsec-mining-corp-cant-defend-itself-against-2-bored-students-and-their-alts-it-doesnt-deserve-to-exist rule is the aim of the game, then I have no issue with playing to that goal.
Yes I like feeling superior to others, even if they don't stand a chance. At the end of the day that's what games are about, winning, beating another person, don't pretend killing NPCs is the same type of game 'snap!' has more in common with Eve than an PVE game, its a different form of entertainment, a game is competitive, just in Eve we get to define victory ourselves (to some extent at least).
I do have issues with some griefing, in excess, but 95% of what is deemed 'griefing' is simply competitive play. |
Haquer
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:15:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Haquer CCP supports greifing. If you don't like it, this isn't the game for you.
Depends what kind of griefing, they don't support newb bashing for instance. So no, you're not 100% correct.
Look at you. You didn't even make a good argument.
So no, you're not 100% correct.
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Camanche Jim
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:21:00 -
[69]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
No, killing someone in a game doesn't make you a murderer.
You don't kill people in this game - you are allowed to destroy their property. And that is the difference.
If you really DID kill in this game - you are out of the game for good never to return... What would you do?
What the guy in the article is referring to is a that no-one can pull off Jekyll/Hyde personality switch to the degree that you are completely different in Eve than in RL. If you take pleasure in ruining another persons day in Eve, you also look for that opportunity in RL.
It is regardless of the rules and constraints of the game - whether the PvP is consensual or not - IT GIVE YOU PLEASURE TO BE AN ASSHAT!!!
Amirite?
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Camanche Jim
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
No, killing someone in a game doesn't make you a murderer.
You don't kill people in this game - you are allowed to destroy their property. And that is the difference.
If you really DID kill in this game - you are out of the game for good never to return... What would you do?
What the guy in the article is referring to is a that no-one can pull off Jekyll/Hyde personality switch to the degree that you are completely different in Eve than in RL. If you take pleasure in ruining another persons day in Eve, you also look for that opportunity in RL.
It is regardless of the rules and constraints of the game - whether the PvP is consensual or not - IT GIVE YOU PLEASURE TO BE AN ASSHAT!!!
Amirite?
I literally go around and ruin people's days IRL.
I just walk around and destroy people's cars, houses and sandcastles, just because I can.
Oh damn, did you see me sneak in that sandbox reference?
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Mortania
Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: Camanche Jim
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
No, killing someone in a game doesn't make you a murderer.
You don't kill people in this game - you are allowed to destroy their property. And that is the difference.
If you really DID kill in this game - you are out of the game for good never to return... What would you do?
What the guy in the article is referring to is a that no-one can pull off Jekyll/Hyde personality switch to the degree that you are completely different in Eve than in RL. If you take pleasure in ruining another persons day in Eve, you also look for that opportunity in RL.
It is regardless of the rules and constraints of the game - whether the PvP is consensual or not - IT GIVE YOU PLEASURE TO BE AN ASSHAT!!!
Amirite?
I literally go around and ruin people's days IRL.
I just walk around and destroy people's cars, houses and sandcastles, just because I can.
Oh damn, did you see me sneak in that sandbox reference?
It's almost as if you're missing the point on purpose.
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Camanche Jim
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:34:00 -
[72]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
I literally go around and ruin people's days IRL. I just walk around and destroy people's cars, houses and sandcastles, just because I can.
I can guarantee you don't mate cos you have to be a good person because you will have consequences that would not be conducive to your health if you did.
But are you an asshat? Just because you're in Goons doesn't mean you are - but we can say that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then its a duck and so your group defines you.
So you take PLEASURE in ruining peoples lives in RL?
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Camanche Jim
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:39:00 -
[73]
I also have to add that studies have shown that some people cannot take pleasure in being nice to others. It seems the brain is wired differently and the pleasure chemicals are activated by causing pain (either vernal and in extreme cases physical). In some it actually hurts to be nice.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:45:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Camanche Jim
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
I literally go around and ruin people's days IRL. I just walk around and destroy people's cars, houses and sandcastles, just because I can.
I can guarantee you don't mate cos you have to be a good person because you will have consequences that would not be conducive to your health if you did.
But are you an asshat? Just because you're in Goons doesn't mean you are - but we can say that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then its a duck and so your group defines you.
So you take PLEASURE in ruining peoples lives in RL?
I take pleasure in ****ing people off over the internet. While yes, I'm an ******* IRL, that doesn't mean I go around ****ing people off as that isn't exactly the way to stay alive for very long.
However, on a video game, I can ruin your day as much as I want, and what are you going to do?
Oh right, cry on a forum.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:50:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Daniela Darr Edited by: Daniela Darr on 07/05/2011 20:33:55
Originally by: Shawna Gray Its a game. Who cares if someone blows up your imaginary spaceship or steals your imaginary spaceship money. If players "suffer" from losing their pixel stuff they (like the author of the article) are probably the ones in need of a therapy session.
"Just pixels" is no argument. Those pixels represent money and time. If your parents have died and you only have a lot of digital photographs of them which I erase from your harddisk I can't say "it's just pixels".
Those pixels dont represent money or time. You paid to play a game where you get the chance to buy a spaceship and get a chance to have it blown up. Blowing up your ship does not change this. Complaining about that is just as stupid as complaining about the time/money you spent training beeing "wasted" if you lose a football match.
The moment your parents start resembling a navy raven you might want to seek help.
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Camanche Jim
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:50:00 -
[76]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
I take pleasure in ****ing people off over the internet. While yes, I'm an asshat IRL, that doesn't mean I go around ****ing people off as that isn't exactly the way to stay alive for very long.
However, on a video game, I can ruin your day as much as I want, and what are you going to do?
Oh right, cry on a forum.
Thanks Ender
Point proven - you do not change your mindset. And THAT is what the guy was getting to in the article.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:52:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Camanche Jim
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
I take pleasure in ****ing people off over the internet. While yes, I'm an asshat IRL, that doesn't mean I go around ****ing people off as that isn't exactly the way to stay alive for very long.
However, on a video game, I can ruin your day as much as I want, and what are you going to do?
Oh right, cry on a forum.
Thanks Ender
Point proven - you do not change your mindset. And THAT is what the guy was getting to in the article.
Look at you. Oh no, somebody made fun of me/killed my spaceship/oh god racism/I'm literally a big whiny baby/etc on the internet.
Guy guys, the internet is exactly like real life.
No really.
Hello?
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Haquer
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:55:00 -
[78]
~heh~
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IIIAsharakIII
The League of Extraordinary Assholes
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:55:00 -
[79]
Ok, the thread's been going for awhile. Got a nice reply to my questions, and some interesting points people have brought up in the time being.
Some thoughts on everyone's posts so far:
While there's a statement the author of this article is trying to make, there IS a difference between playing a role in a game and taking it out of game. As I said before, I think its highly dependent on the individual, so each griefer and their victim really ought to be analyzed on a case to case basis. Consider, each incident is not the same, and the results will depend on the moods/behaviors/social norm/etc of the actors.
On top of that, We haven't even considered RL cultural/social norms, so how can we bridge Eve Online into a discussion about the real world?
Yes, there are people who are playing this game to make people miserable. YES, they might be exactly the same kind of person in RL. But, not all of us are playing this game to hurt people. Most of us just want to blow up your ship, post your mail, say yarr and savvy a few times, then off we go.
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Naynomi
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Posted - 2011.05.07 23:56:00 -
[80]
I must be missing something.
What exactly is wrong with greifing?
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:01:00 -
[81]
Originally by: IIIAsharakIII Sensible :words:
No no no. You are literally a terrible person for shooting somebody else or making them feel bad.
No really.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:03:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 08/05/2011 00:04:04
Originally by: Camanche Jim
But are you an asshat? Just because you're in Goons doesn't mean you are - but we can say that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then its a duck and so your group defines you.
Goons just play the game, and have fun doing so. They are one of the organisations in EVE that make the game as great as it is. While i'd never join goons EVE would not be as fun without them.
Posts like this make you a much bigger asshat than anyone in goons.
Originally by: Haquer CCP supports greifing. If you don't like it, this isn't the game for you.
They dont. You just dont know what griefing is.
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Haquer
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:07:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Shawna Gray They dont. You just dont know what griefing is.
"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game that deliberately irritates and harasses other players."
So petition the griefers and see how far you get.
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:07:00 -
[84]
Wait, what?
Is it just me or did the article writer not once make a clear point of what he was *****ing about? The impression I got is that he wants to: nerf The Mittani, nerf goonswarm, nerf theft, nerf scamming, nerf The Mittani, nerf alts, nerf PvP, nerf goonswarm, nerf RP'ers not RPing as themsevles IRL, nerf EVE, make PvP consentual, and nerf The Mittani
First off, I want to point out the fact that he can't seperate reality (r-e-a-l l-i-f-e) from fantasy (A G-A-M-E) is seriously disturbing.... on so many ****in levels. That's like going and having a little cry everytime you die on CoD It's like holding a candlelight vigil for that infantry squad you lost in C&C It's like accusing your spouse of cheating on you because they have a gf in GTA
I mean we can see this for what it is right? This is a grown man sitting around, (while he could be doing something productive), writing disjointed ramblings on how his feelings where hurt because someone took his internet pixels away from him, and therefore all EVE players are psychotic sociopaths who'd kill kittens and rip the souls from kiddies for a bit of a giggle. They probably beat their wives/kids too, spit on the elderly as they walk by, and **** in the homeless guys change-tin
Do you really feel that time was worth it? An hour or two at least writing that up, proofreading, editing little bits here and there. What do you have at the end? A jumbled collection of words with no meaning behind, liberally sprinkled with groundless assumptions of what other EVE players are like IRL. 3 syllables for ya Pa-the-tic
*Assuming* he considers PvP 'griefing', then this is clearly 0/10 troll EVE is a PvP game, marketed as a PvP game, deliberately designed by the devs that no space is 100% safe, and that death has a price. 95% of EVE trailers are centered on PvP, most of the content is developed for PvP, and the entire economy is driven by PvP PvP != griefing I mean, would you ***** and moan about getting 'griefed' if you died on CoD? Of course not, it's a PvP game, just like EVE. You go into it with the assumption you're about to die a (preferably) fiery death.
Quote: If griefers (and some hardcore roleplayers) were simply interested in blowing off steam or acting out in a consequence-free environment, the nearest FPS/RPG and its cannon-fodder NPCs would suffice (or the nearest gym and a heavy bag). But it's not about that. It's about having a real feeling of superiority over real people (but of course, it's got to be anonymous so the griefer can keep his day job).
Nope wrong, it's done for 3 reasons. 1) The Money 2) The Money 3) The Money
Your delicious tears are simply 'gravy', an entertaining gravy, a gravy I drizzle daily over my morning open-faced sandwich of bacon, egg, jalepeno peppers, children's souls and dead kittens
...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Mortania
Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:11:00 -
[85]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: IIIAsharakIII Sensible :words:
No no no. You are literally a terrible person for shooting somebody else or making them feel bad.
No really.
. <--- The point..................................................................................Your understanding --->.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:12:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Haquer
Originally by: Shawna Gray They dont. You just dont know what griefing is.
"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game that deliberately irritates and harasses other players."
So petition the griefers and see how far you get.
If i ever find someone that griefs me i might, but so far after 6 or so years its not happened to me.
You might want to stop whining to CCP every time someone blows up your ship.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:15:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: IIIAsharakIII Sensible :words:
No no no. You are literally a terrible person for shooting somebody else or making them feel bad.
No really.
. <--- The point..................................................................................Your understanding --->.
Such a compelling argument for why I was wrong.
Why didn't I see this before?
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Haquer
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:28:00 -
[88]
So if there's so many bad people in Goons, why haven't they been mean to each other so much to collapse?
Anyone have any ideas?
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Clementina
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:29:00 -
[89]
What you guys have to understand is that what you are paying for is to grief and be griefed.
Eve is the S&M of MMORPGs.
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Mortania
Minmatar No Compromise Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.08 00:30:00 -
[90]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: EnderCapitalG
Originally by: IIIAsharakIII Sensible :words:
No no no. You are literally a terrible person for shooting somebody else or making them feel bad.
No really.
. <--- The point..................................................................................Your understanding --->.
Such a compelling argument for why I was wrong.
Why didn't I see this before?
Because you're missing the point. That was the point of my previous post.
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