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MAGNATOR
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Posted - 2011.05.09 07:42:00 -
[1]
hi
I'm getting closer to being carrier ready and I was looking at moving to a WH ( possibly C4 ) .. but wondered which one has the most utility ?
I know the Caldari one is good for Pos repping but the Gallente version had more Dps for running Anomalies and the Amarr has more tank for kicking out invaders.
Maybe several would be useful .. your thoughts ?
Thanks
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.05.09 08:00:00 -
[2]
Archon.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.09 08:30:00 -
[3]
Do you have a system effect you're likely to live with? |
Millie Clode
Amarr Insert Cool Name Here
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Posted - 2011.05.09 08:46:00 -
[4]
Check the system effect.
If it's a wolf-rayet, get an archon or a thanatos.
If it's a pulsar get a chimera.
If neither of the above, archon and thanatos are generally better. ---------- Who, me? |
Socks Malone
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Posted - 2011.05.09 09:25:00 -
[5]
If you're repping your POS, things have gone very wrong for you.
I would look at fleet composition and WH effect and choose from there. If you tell us the WH effect we will track you down and blow up your POS, carrier and shoot your dog.
I'd say an Archon unless you are soloing. It has the energy and armor reps that come in ever so handy when doing anomalies. Just tell your Tengu pilots to learn to armor tank, I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
I'd just be real careful as WH gangs love capital kills and it generally only takes a couple dedicated energy-neut ships (Legions or Bhaalgorns) to make you have a really bad day.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.09 09:43:00 -
[6]
Nah, piloted cap ships are immune to generating lossmails, SD is too fast if you're not ******ed. |
MAGNATOR
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Posted - 2011.05.09 11:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: MAGNATOR on 09/05/2011 11:18:10 No Dog shooting pls
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.09 11:45:00 -
[8]
It depends.
If you are the only carrier in the corp, or if your corp uses shield tanked ships, chimera.
Chimera has the best local tank both for triage or pantheon in general. They also have very good cap.More importantly, they have the best reps to shields suited for PVE (a mid slot tank, a low slot gank)
If your corp uses armor tank, then use archon or the thanny. They are good at buffer tanking.
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Socks Malone
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Posted - 2011.05.09 11:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize Nah, piloted cap ships are immune to generating lossmails, SD is too fast if you're not ******ed.
You're very very bad man, Mr. Trevize.
Besides most guys getting their capitals shot at are too busy screaming, crying and gnashing their teeth to hit SD I thought.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.05.09 13:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Straight Edged It depends.
If you are the only carrier in the corp, or if your corp uses shield tanked ships, chimera.
Chimera has the best local tank both for triage or pantheon in general. They also have very good cap.More importantly, they have the best reps to shields suited for PVE (a mid slot tank, a low slot gank)
If your corp uses armor tank, then use archon or the thanny. They are good at buffer tanking.
Yeah, um...no. Archon is orders of magnitude better than the Chimera at both Triage and especially Pantheon. It's no competition.
Flux coils suck, and capacitor power relays penalize local shield tank. Moreover, CPRs give less capacitor than cap rechargers. Finally, the Archon has a larger base capacitor regeneration, and the Chimera has serious fitting issues. Triage goes to Archon.
Pantheon is even more lopsided. The existence of remote repair augmentors halves the amount of capacitor that a repair-dedicated carrier needs to run its reps, allowing an archon to permarun FIVE capital remote reps off of a single low-grade talisman boosted capital energy transfer. An egress-port rigged Archon can fit five locally (good luck doing that with your grid, Chimera), and a pair of them can send out six of them to the fleet cap stable, while getting over 2 million EHP.
Show me a triage or Pantheon Chimera, and a guarantee an Archon can outperform it.
Even for wormhole space, where shield ships are preferable for DPS output, an Archon still gets 15km on its capital shield reps. So long as the other ships maintain proper orbit range, it can even support a shield tanked gang (it just has to locally armor tank).
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Straight Edged
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Posted - 2011.05.09 13:21:00 -
[11]
actually no.
You give me an archon fit. And ill outperform it in either local tank , or cap, or both.
The only problem with chimera is it cant fit 5 shield trans in pantheon, but it can fit 4 repper 1 energy transfer. which is the better fit anyways.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.09 13:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 09/05/2011 13:25:48
Originally by: Aamrr Yeah, um...no. Archon is orders of magnitude better than the Chimera at both Triage and especially Pantheon. It's no competition.
Chimera - Works great. Archon - The best repper, but the price is it can't rep a large POS. Nidhogger - Works great. Thanatos - Works great.
I'm a Chimera pilot, any my corp shield tanks. We use Chimera and Archon for escalations, as any carrier can work. We've never needed to triage on C5 or C6 sites.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:25:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aamrr on 09/05/2011 15:29:28
Originally by: Straight Edged actually no.
You give me an archon fit. And ill outperform it in either local tank , or cap, or both.
The only problem with chimera is it cant fit 5 shield trans in pantheon, but it can fit 4 repper 1 energy transfer. which is the better fit anyways.
Fine. Typical triage Archon. Gang links give it a 12415 EHP/s local tank. It can sustain that while still putting out a rep for almost 20 minutes. Triage chimera can't even use its 5th high slot, much less sustain that kind of tank and capacitor generation.
Pantheon fits forthcoming...
[Archon, Triage]
3x Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Energy Transfer Array I Triage Module I
4x Cap Recharger II
2x Capital Armor Repairer I Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 4x Capacitor Power Relay II
3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
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Rin Moennan
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Posted - 2011.05.09 15:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rin Moennan on 09/05/2011 15:57:21 Whats the point of being able to rep 20K dps when you can only tank 12K? YOU are going to take the most damage for your bloated sig + 0m/s. Not them.
I think i can fit a chimera with a better tank and a more balanced approach.
This ship can rep 17K (21K overheat for 3min) If reps are off, it can rep with two shield transfers for 3000/sec (around 12-15K dps)
This setup is much more balanced in a sense that the local tank and repper ammount is more equal. If they put out 20K dps the chimera can tank it. If they try to hit on your sub-caps with 20k dps, they can sig tank/speed tank it down compared to the carrier itself, letting them survive.
Another version is the more tanky one. Where the chimera itself tanks 20K dps (25K overheated) , or being able to dish out 2400/sec of reps (one and 3 quarters)
[Chimera, New Setup 1] Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
[empty high slot] Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Energy Transfer Array I Capital Shield Transporter I Triage Module I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
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bartos100
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.05.09 17:22:00 -
[15]
i am not a capital pilot but the question was for C4 WH so you can forget any SC
also i'm not sure but i think triage would be a pain to keep bringing in fuel depending on how easy you can get to K-space
and as a carrier solo is usually a bad idea you best look at what kind of fleet setup you have in the corp you run with
and then you also have to watch the effects of the WH
if you know all that info then you can start looking for what carrier would be best
but that's just my idea and as i said i don't fly carriers yet tho i know some players who do and you pick up some things over time :)
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Dorian Wylde
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Posted - 2011.05.09 21:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Socks Malone If you're repping your POS, things have gone very wrong for you.
I would look at fleet composition and WH effect and choose from there. If you tell us the WH effect we will track you down and blow up your POS, carrier and shoot your dog.
Really, you have about as much luck finding him with the information he already gave you than you would with the system name. Even with the system name you could theoretically never find him.
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Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.05.09 23:42:00 -
[17]
Look at your WH system effects, and what kind of fleets your corp flies. You aren't going to be soloing sites in your carrier anyways. If you're not sure which way to go, roll with the thanatos, as it can (somewhat) do both shield and armor. If you know you're going to be rolling shield all the time, go chimera. If you know you're going to be running armor all the time, go archon.
-Arazel
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BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
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Posted - 2011.05.10 02:15:00 -
[18]
Look...Let's not go nuts here. The OP wants to go into a C4 wh, and any carrier will do (provided he builds it there)
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Kerowyn's
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Posted - 2011.05.10 05:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: BuckStrider Look...Let's not go nuts here. The OP wants to go into a C4 wh, and any carrier will do (provided he builds it there)
The fact he has to build it kinda makes it important to get the right one no ?
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 17:43:00 -
[20]
Honestly, does the tank type really matter? Wormhole carriers are locally tanked anyway, so it's not like you can't armor tank a nidhoggur while throwing out shield reps or vice versa.
Even the range issue on the capital mods isn't that big of a deal. Most ships have adequate range to hit the sleepers no matter where they are (tengus lob heavy missiles over 100km, and tachyons are certainly no slouch at sniping), so if the gang has to stay within 15km, I don't really see an issue.
Unless you're living in a wolf-rayet or pulsar, I wouldn't worry about it what type of local tank your carrier is using.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.10 17:54:00 -
[21]
I'd be pretty interested in doublechecking my choice if there was a Cat. Var. or Magnetar too. Ship comparisons are relative, sleeper DPS is absolute, only 1 or 2 combos might be viable (IDK). |
Lamar Calrissian
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:54:00 -
[22]
I lived in a C4 cataclysmic variable for a while, we had a niddy, and archon. I think these 2 carriers make a good team for WH space. Normally ran sites with incredible ease in the niddy and 2 BS's. Only 1 local rep on the carrier, even if the wave was out DPS-ing my tank the buffer was more than enough to take the damage before they swapped targets. |
Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:23:00 -
[23]
So many people are going to hate me for this but shield tanked triage nid :P
Someone above said something about CPRs being less effective than cap rechargers and they are an idiot also it is worth nothing the negative effect of CPRs on shield tanks is stacking penalized so by your 4+ CPR you get alot of gain for little pain.
My experience is based off running C6s and C5s running 4+ accounts myself sometimes with additional corp mates admittedly C6 sites were over a year ago so before the neut change but the setup I run for C5s is heavily neut resistant and tried and test post changes and can also run 3 capital armour reps in triage on a permanent basis. Everyone will have their own reasoning for everything.
The carrier pilot that flys nids can also fly archons so skills has no bearing on my choice
Also wading in on the pantheon argument chimera pantheon is not great IMHO armour is better in general for pantheon setups (I have run an armour tanked chimera before as well in a mix carrier pantheon setup)
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MAGNATOR
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:51:00 -
[24]
MY thoughts at the moment is to go with the thanatos, as that will be easiest to train for.
Plus I could rep some armour tanking BS which had a buff fit, just in case. While the carrier does most of the dps.
But I hear most WH pilots like a tengu , so I'm not sure if I could sheild rep them and local amour rep myself ?
And can a thanatos do a reasonable job of pos repping if needs be ?
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AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:34:00 -
[25]
If its non effect WH - chimera.
Shield resistance bonuses, tremendous EHP - supports tengu perfectly in higher rank WHs.
Regards
I.
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Mournful Conciousness
Gallente Special Situations
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:21:00 -
[26]
A carrier in anything less than a C5 is probably a waste of isk - unless you do it for the laugh (we built a chimera in our c3).
In our C5 we have several carriers and I would say that of these the thanatoses are the most versatile. Extra fighter damage helps cut down the time taken to do escalations and it has better cap characteristics for a logistic role.
We haven't tried an archon or the naglfarr, although the latter looks attractive from the point of view of pvp defence because equal bonuses to shield and armour rep - allowing more flexibility when rushing to defend whatever it is we are defending (usually just catching a pvp fleet in a large bubble and persuading them to play somewhere else)
In case you were interested, a carrier + dominix can run a c3 sleeper site in under 6 minutes. If you fit a capital remote repper to the carrier, the domi does not need to fit any resit mods at all. In other words, you can be all stick. :-)
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Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:42:00 -
[27]
Despite the niddy being the least used carrier, it works great with an armor tank supplying shield reps when in triage for your RR tengus,..this is for c5's tho so dunno about c4's.
Archon would be the best for a wolf ray wh but anyone who lives in those are kinda stupid, as the resist effects the sleepers as well making them harder to kill.
We really only have niddys :), we do have archons/thanny and chimera on stand by but mainly for pvp
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gibbo3771 Archon would be the best for a wolf ray wh but anyone who lives in those are kinda stupid
Brosef! |
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