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Simaril Ratbane Lathspell
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Posted - 2011.05.10 13:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Simaril Ratbane Lathspell on 10/05/2011 13:24:42 How do L3s compare to L4s?
I unlocked some L4 agents, and am getting more every day. How hard and rewarding are they versus L3s? IÆm guessing I should buy a battleship before trying L4s. I know I shouldnÆt buy anything I canÆt afford to replace (or buy 2 of), but itÆs either spend all of my ISK on a ship + fittings, or do like 50+ more L3s. If I do lose a shiny new BS, IÆll still have my BC, and other assets.
IÆve been soloing high quality (+18) L3s in high sec with great success and fair profit compared to anything I earned on L2s (reward + time bonus + loot/bounty (no salvaging) = 1million ISK) . IÆve earned the time bonus basically every time, and donÆt necessarily get all the loot since IÆm usually at 20km. I havenÆt lost a battle cruiser on the L3 missions (I did lose some very low value frigates) so IÆm feeling fairly confident. I did lose a cruiser to PvP in high sec, so IÆm aware of that risk.
IÆm currently 3.3mil sp, using a myrmidon with 250mm rails, t2 cap rechargers, an AB, t2 hardeners, t2 armor rep, t2 dmg control, and hammerheads/hobgoblins (have skills for t2, carry t2 hobs, but mostly use the more expendable T1s). IÆm guessing I might be able to handle an æeasyÆ L4, but I donÆt necessarily want to make several jumps to try a mission only to find itÆs too hard and I need to go buy/fit a BS, or lose my Myrm.
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Gianath
Gallente Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
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Posted - 2011.05.10 13:52:00 -
[2]
Most level 4's aren't that hard really, even in a low-skilled Domi, they are just lengthy. As long as you can manage the skills to fit 2x LAR's (either Tech 2, faction, or meta 4) plus 4 rat-specific hardeners, and have the cap to keep them running non-stop for the 2+ hours it will probably take to clear most missions, you will do fine. Tech 2 drones just make things go faster, especially sentries, but I wouldn't put off the missions just because you are still using T1 heavies. Really all you need are tech 2 hobgoblins/hammerheads and an understanding of triggers you can research from places like eve-survival.com.
I wouldn't bother with learning large guns yet, they just aren't that great in missions until you've poured a ton of skillpoints into them and your time is better spent getting T2 sentries and/or heavies. There's a lot of situations where I will still use medium rails when I get into a Domi even though I wasted the skillpoints on large guns long ago, just because mediums will hit a lot more targets and cost a lot less money and storage space for ammo.
Or if you want to do what most other people do, forget about railguns entirely and mount a single civilian gun to draw aggro, and fill the rest of your high slots with drone links, tractors and salvagers and just resolve to vacuum up as much cash as you can from your missions since you are going to be there for awhile anyway.
But yes, get into level 4s as soon as you can afford a Dominix. Don't worry about losing it as long as you study the missions before accepting them, and make sure you take out the scramming elite frigates first so you can run if you get in over your head. It's definitely better money for the time involved.
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Gilm
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Posted - 2011.05.10 14:48:00 -
[3]
Simaril - my personal advice, wait until you can use Heavy/Sentry II's before taking on Level 4's, if you plan on using a drone boat. It might take you a while to train this up, but in the long run will offer the similar experience you are having with your L3 missions right now.
Also, imho, Damage Control II shouldn't be on a PvE boat. Better for tank or gank mods instead.
o7 Fly Dangerously!
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foksieloy
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.10 14:56:00 -
[4]
General rule of thumb is that to do all lvl4 missions your tank + dps should be 1000.
Actual DPS at expected range that is, not the EFT number.
How close to that do you get with your myrm? _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Simaril Ratbane Lathspell
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Posted - 2011.05.10 15:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Simaril Ratbane Lathspell on 10/05/2011 15:20:03 Honestly I have no idea what my tank and dps are. I can tell you, I often don't need the armor repair turned on (though i'm nearly cap stable), and I almost never have to warp out, even if I aggro everything. The t2 hardeners, and range of rails really limits the damage I take, especially if I do 1 group at a time.
My DPS is a bit low since I usually use cheap drones and fly around looting which puts me at inappropriate ranges for shooting. Again, I haven't bothered checking actual numbers since nothing has even been challanging to complete.
I've just reached the pre-reqs for medium rail specialization, partially becuase I was going away and wanted some slower training skills.
I do carry t2 hobs, and can use t2 hammerheads, I believe I do have skills for other drones (ogre?). I mostly use hammerheads I've looted, and don't care if I lose them, but I'll use t2 hobs if there are lots of frigates. In a bigger drone boat (domi), I'll have room for more thoughtfull options rather than just flooding the encounter with Hammerheads.
What kind of rewards do these rediculously long L4s offer?
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Mobius Fierce
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Posted - 2011.05.10 15:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mobius Fierce on 10/05/2011 15:25:35 Edited by: Mobius Fierce on 10/05/2011 15:24:06 I would get a battle ship and risk it (insure your ship!) but I would make sure I knew the mission walk through before heading in and skip it if it's one of the hardest ones. If you're using T2 hardners you should be okay. Warp out in case you get in trouble. And, like you said, if you blow up you'll still have your BC for level 3s while you try again.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.05.10 15:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: foksieloy General rule of thumb is that to do all lvl4 missions your tank + dps should be 1000.
Lol how many ships have that at all? A max skilled Tengu with T2 furies against Guristas doesn't have that, a Raven doesn't have that and I wonder what ship actually does?
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Sonya Kranz
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Posted - 2011.05.10 15:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: foksieloy General rule of thumb is that to do all lvl4 missions your tank + dps should be 1000.
Lol how many ships have that at all? A max skilled Tengu with T2 furies against Guristas doesn't have that, a Raven doesn't have that and I wonder what ship actually does?
He means you have to add up the dps and tank figures, and together they should be 1000+ im pretty sure any tengu and any raven will... my t2 fit domi for example easily gets around 750 dps and a 600 dps tank, that makes 1350, get it?
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Cuchulain Spartan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 16:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 10/05/2011 16:08:20
Get a Domi and put 2 Large Armour Reps in the low along with 2 x 2 mission specific hardeners. Put 3 cap rigs on and fill your mids with as many cap rechargers as you need to make the dual rep Domi cap stable for a perma tank. Once you follow the missions guides and manage your agro you should be able to run any lvl 4 easy.
You'll, make a lot more isk doing lvl 4's instead of 3's. Use a large rail in the high slot to pull agro and let the rats come to you. A tractor and salvage in your highs will make some extra cash while you mission. Leave the domi at your lvl 4 base and the myrm at your lvl 3, just shuttle between them as needed, saves moving the ships around all the time.
Get Eve Hq and fit up some ships on 'paper' etc to test fits before you fork out the isk on them ingame.
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Sonya Kranz
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Posted - 2011.05.10 16:12:00 -
[10]
Since i had EFT open anyway, heres a cookie cutter dominix fit to work towards (you can ignore the guns at first)
[Dominix, Missies] Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
Garde II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Warden II x5
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Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 17:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Maverick2011 on 10/05/2011 17:58:29 Im at 3.7mil sp and still at level 1 missions. I have enough reputation even for level 4 missions but i'm extreme over zealous about losing ships to NPCs. Im training towards a "perfect" battlecruiser where ill be for a loooong time then proceed to the "perfect battleship" for level 4 missions.
Its not needed and im sure im losing isk with this slow method but I dont live of missioning only. I have money to buy a battleship and fittings already and have the "perfect" battlecruiser already awaiting orders to launch at a station.
Its a personal thing though. I like to go in missions, get all enemies at once and clear them in 1 shots. At level 1 I don't even bother to loot, so i can do like 50 missions in a few hours after work.
Don't have patience for warping out or more careful strategies really for missioning, so i rather wait more to have what i consider a 100% safe ship from NPCs.
Of course the PVP aspect is always present, even doing level 1 missions, so I don't mind losing a ship to a player.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling and I wonder what ship actually does?
Reading comprehension, Jenny, dear. ;)
As for OP, I say risk it. As long as you do not sell your Myrm to buy the battleship, not that you have anything else to do with that ISK, now do you? :) _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Forum Alting
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:23:00 -
[13]
I highly recommend using eve survival to check before you accept the mission. Some of them can be difficult on newbies but quite a few missions can be done very easily, some to the point you can do them in a BC (other than a drake, before anyone says anything!). Some lvl 4s could be soloed by your myrmidon and it's a good confidence boost to do it. I would recommend skilling for a dominix and heavy/sentry drones as soon as possible though.
Also worth noting that BS can enter most lvl3 missions. With a lot of them it's a waste as the oversized guns can sometimes struggle to hit the hordes of smaller ships but the dominix is a drone boat which has no penalties at all using light or medium drones over heavies. So if lvl4s are still tough then you can always keep the domi and just run lvl 3s with it.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:47:00 -
[14]
Set your Myrm up with a huge passive shield tank, harden it against only the expected damage from the mission (for missions against mercenaries, such as Silence the Informant, that's omnitank sadly) and use your swarm of T2 light, T2 medium and T2 heavy/sentry drones to chew through things.
As you gain confidence, move up to a battleship.
Read the kill mission survival guides, and better yet make sure you run missions with friends.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:55:00 -
[15]
I started doing level 4 missions in the same battlecruiser I did level 3 missions in.
I only had difficulty with one mission, Vengeance (Sansha Nation), and I easily solved that by buying some faction ammo to kill the last "boss".
All other level 4 missions were no problem in my battlecruiser.
When I moved into a battleship, I could do level 4 missions a LOT faster.
I'm currently excessively lazy, and do level 2/3/4 missions in a strategic cruiser.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:33:00 -
[16]
I would recommend getting together with others to run missions with. It makes the mission go a lot faster (so you get around the same ISK/hr), you can share tanking duties, and it means you're playing EVE in a social setting which is how it's supposed to be done. 2-3 BCs will do nicely in level fours, and you can do it with mates who don't have standings of their own yet too (everybody wins).
A Domi is fairly cheap as a first BS, but the rigs do get expensive (fit a CCC, and armour rep boost/speed rigs for tank, Sentry drone rigs are the only real DPS rigs you could fit), and you don't have to worry about skilling large guns because your main offense is drones. Also consider using Projectile weapons - no cap requirements (so more cap left for your tank), and can do different damage types to better suit the different rats (rather than just the kin/therm of rails). Particularly artillery, and especially on the Myrm which doesn't get any gun bonus anyway.
As for rewards, they scale up exponentially with level. The LP, mission rewards, ISK from bounties and salvage/loot amounts are much more in L4s than L3s.
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:23:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dian''h Might on 11/05/2011 07:23:43 You can do just about any L4 with a dual rep domi and 4 mission specific hardeners. There's no need for "perfect" skills. You'd don't even need to be "cap stable", just as long as you can permarun one repper and pulse the second as needed.
Tbh if you play eve that way, always waiting for a that one more skill, you'll either end up bored or become one of those 4 year old players who has no idea about any game mechanic outside of 3rd hand info on optimizing mission income. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:16:00 -
[18]
The missions rewards from L4's are not significantly more than L3's. A good L3 is paying around 900k-1.2M in rewards...with bad L3's paying less than 200k. A good L4 pays 1.5-2.5M in rewards, with nothing ever lower than 500k. Yes, it's double in some cases...no, it's still not that much.
Where L4's really shine is in bounties, loot and salvage. A really good L3 w/ lots of rats, great loot and some lucky salvage will earn you between 2-6M ISK above the reward. A similar L4 will get you no less than 8M ISK...and often times [The Blockade, Extravaganza, Pirate Invasion, etc...] will earn you well into the 20-30M ISK range.
As for the LP rewards...there's no comparison. Even a crappy L4 mission will earn you over 1000 LP...with really good ones going well into the 5000 LP range [more w/ skills]. L3's can't even touch that in most cases...with the best L3 I ever got dishing out just under 3000 - and that was for an agent I had 7.8 standing with.
Do L4's if you can. The only real consideration is risk - L4's can actually kill you...L3's can't. Focus on tank skills when preparing for L4's - get into a T2 tank if you can - that should keep you alive. Having a ranged boat helps immensely as well. Sometimes, I don't activate my Shield Booster once in my Raven...just pop rats from 90km+ and watch TV.
Sure, it take twice as long to do an L4 as it does to do an L3
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My Postman
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:03:00 -
[19]
As long as you can run 2 x LAR II cap stable, your Domi should survive 99% of all missions. Be aware that there are some missions you might get into trouble with a low skilled Domi (Angel Extravaganza for example), but you should try it by yourself.
Skill up Senty Drones to 5 to be able to use T2 sentries, they are MUCH better than T1¦s. When having the ability to use T2 drones, ALWAYS use those as they kill things much faster, lowering incoming DPS. T2 heavies are fine, when a rat BS comes nearer than 12-15 km, as your sentries start getting tracking issues. Use T1¦s (Drone Interfacing 4 mandatory, 5 better), till having "Heavy Drone OP 5).
TL; Dr; My advice: Buy Domi + 2 x LAR II + 2 x Omnidirectional + Drone Link Augmentor + 2 x Sentry Damage rig and go for it! I forgot: Gallente Battleship 3 mandatory, 4 better, 5 not useful unless you want to go Kronos.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:49:00 -
[20]
You can do 4's in a myrm no problems. I do it all the time, even in null sec. Many folks here that are screaming for Domis for lvl 4 missions would be telling you to get a titan first if you could fly it in hi sec.
Sounds to me like you are well on your way. I'm strictly Gallente and don't fly other races. Get your Battlecruiser skill to 4 or 5(prefered) and your Myrm will tank like a BEAST.
You have your T2 med drones, use them heartily, they will tear through all in your path. You need to get drone interfacing to 5 eventually to bring the pain from from your drones.
Honestly, once you have a heavily skilled BC, it's going to make your battleships all that better. Don't rush up the scale, you'll only be half arse in another set of ships. EVE takes time to develop your skills. Be patient, use that time. And a note,do what others suggested and find some folks to fly with. Game is 1000% more fun.
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DCThunder
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:32:00 -
[21]
The most fun is to do L4s in a HAC, especially an Ishtar.
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DCThunder The most fun is to do L4s in a HAC, especially an Ishtar.
I guess it depends on what you're doing while afk.
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Reeper 2435
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Originally by: DCThunder The most fun is to do L4s in a HAC, especially an Ishtar.
I guess it depends on what you're doing while afk.
Don't go AFK in a mission... BOO, drone aggro may kill you.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dian'h Might You can do just about any L4 with a dual rep domi and 4 mission specific hardeners. There's no need for "perfect" skills. You'd don't even need to be "cap stable", just as long as you can permarun one repper and pulse the second as needed.
I agree. One option is to go straight the Dominix and park the Myrmidon for nostalgic reasons. "Cap stable" is severely overrated - you can overcome cap stability issues by using a cap booster. The Domi has a capacious cargohold, plenty of room for a supply of cap booster 800s.
Starting level 4s in a Myrm will help get the funds required to acquire the Dominix in the first place.
A long time ago I advocated getting into a battleship as quickly as possible. The hardest part about flying a battleship in missions is learning to be patient and reading the mission guides carefully.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Leetha Layne
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Posted - 2011.05.14 07:08:00 -
[25]
I too am on the cusp. I can do all level 4s, but my support skills are such that level 4s can take hours. Survival is not the issue, just my DPS. Get a Domi, raise drone skills and practice with the Domi in level 3s. Three or 4 level 3s an hour vs one level 4 makes it ISK inefficient for me at this point.
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Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Leetha Layne I too am on the cusp. I can do all level 4s, but my support skills are such that level 4s can take hours. Survival is not the issue, just my DPS. Get a Domi, raise drone skills and practice with the Domi in level 3s. Three or 4 level 3s an hour vs one level 4 makes it ISK inefficient for me at this point.
Same here. A quality L4 takes me about an hour to do and another 20 mins to loot/salvage.
I can probably do 3 L3's in that time.
The L4 is still more profitable when you take into account BS bounties, better loot, and more salvage. L4's just get a little boring in a Raven.
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