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Mal Ishos
Red Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:He defined Reward as isk/hour.
This is completely subjective. There are also many ISK generating activities in EVE which you cannot reasonably calculate their ISK/hr simply because of how subjective those activities are. Exploration in highsec might generate 300mil ISK/hr for some and only 10mil ISK/hr for others performing the exact same task. Additionally, the amount of risk being taken performing the same task depends not just on the person performing them, but on the people who occupy the same area of space and, in the case of Exploration, the kind and number of people performing the same task in a given band of security status in all of EVE.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9368
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:This is completely subjective. I wouldn't call it subjective. At most, it's a bit arbitrary, and perhaps a bit sensitive to measurement constraints (e.g. how long a period you use to achieve your average and which period you choose), but it's pretty darn objective as measurements go.
Quote:There are also many ISK generating activities in EVE which you cannot reasonably calculate their ISK/hr simply because of how subjective those activities are. That doesn't make them subjective GÇö it just means the objectively measured result will vary, which is to be expected. If it were subjective, the result would depend on who did the measuring rather than on what was being measured. If one explorer earns 10M an hour and another earns 300M in the same hour, then that is objectively what they earn. The subjective part would rather be whether they feel it is GÇ£a lotGÇ¥ or not. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
480
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:Telegram Sam wrote:He defined Reward as isk/hour. This is completely subjective. There are also many ISK generating activities in EVE which you cannot reasonably calculate their ISK/hr simply because of how subjective those activities are. Exploration in highsec might generate 300mil ISK/hr for some and only 10mil ISK/hr for others performing the exact same task. Additionally, the amount of risk being taken performing the same task depends not just on the person performing them, but on the people who occupy the same area of space and, in the case of Exploration, the kind and number of people performing the same task in a given band of security status in all of EVE.
If you take a large enough sample, the fluctuations should average out to a reasonable isk/hour value... At the same point, you make a valid argument that we need to look at the variance of the isk/hr reward as well as the average! |
Mal Ishos
Red Federation
43
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:53:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mal Ishos wrote:This is completely subjective. I wouldn't call it subjective. At most, it's a bit arbitrary, and perhaps a bit sensitive to measurement constraints (e.g. how long a period you use to achieve your average and which period you choose), but it's pretty darn objective as measurements go. Quote:There are also many ISK generating activities in EVE which you cannot reasonably calculate their ISK/hr simply because of how subjective those activities are. That doesn't make them subjective GÇö it just means the objectively measured result will vary, which is to be expected. If it were subjective, the result would depend on who did the measuring rather than on what was being measured. If one explorer earns 10M an hour and another earns 300M in the same hour, then that is objectively what they earn. The subjective part would rather be whether they feel it is GÇ£a lotGÇ¥ or not.
Semantics. |
Mal Ishos
Red Federation
43
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:If you take a large enough sample, the fluctuations should average out to a reasonable isk/hour value... At the same point, you make a valid argument that we need to look at the variance of the isk/hr reward as well as the average!
This is true. The ISK/hr for any given activity will fluctuate wildly based upon any number of factors depending on where, when, how and by whom the ISK generating activity is being performed. ISK is also just one of many ways to measure Reward in EVE Online the Internet Spaceship Game. There are also multiple ways to measure Risk based on some of the same factors involved in measuring Reward. However, Risk is certainly less subjective than reward, since it has fewer determining factors.
The only way this discussion could ever come to a logical conclusion would be the requirement that Risk and Reward be given a strict definition in the context of this game and that just can't happen when there are so many factors to consider and each one of those factors is based on the individual performing the tasks. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9369
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:01:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:Semantics. No. Accuracy.
Variability is not the same thing as subjectivity. If the results depends on what you measure, it's not subjective; if the result depends on who does the measuring, it is. ISK/h contains two factors that do not depend on who does the measuring (unless one is travelling at relativistic speeds). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1491
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mal Ishos wrote:Semantics. No. Accuracy. Variability is not the same thing as subjectivity. If the results depends on what you measure, it's not subjective; if the result depends on who does the measuring, it is. ISK/h contains two factors that do not depend on who does the measuring (unless one is travelling at relativistic speeds). Note to self: do not compute isk/hr while in warp. Rifterlings - Small gang low/nullsec combat corp specializing in fast paced combat in frigates and cruisers. US and EU Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free frigates and fittings for members! |
Mal Ishos
Red Federation
43
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mal Ishos wrote:Semantics. No. Accuracy. Variability is not the same thing as subjectivity. If the result depends on what you measure, it's not subjective GÇö it's just not fixed; if the result depends on who does the measuring, it is. ISK/h contains two factors that do not depend on who does the measuring (unless one is travelling at relativistic speeds).
There are ISK generating activities in EVE for which ISK/hr cannot be accurately measured. And, in those cases, the measurement and the results are very subjective. Additionally, there are Risk generating activities for which there is no reward, so how do these factor into the equation or are they simply eliminated because they do not fit into your neatly defined Risk v Reward equation? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9370
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:There are ISK generating activities in EVE for which ISK/hr cannot be accurately measured. Such as?
Quote:And, in those cases, the measurement and the results are very subjective. Again, no. They're just subject to measurement errors, be it low validity or accuracy, and given the same data, two people will arrive at the same result. This is usually solved by trying to increase your sample size.
Quote:Additionally, there are Risk generating activities for which there is no reward, so how do these factor into the equation or are they simply eliminated because they do not fit into your neatly defined Risk v Reward equation? For those, the risk:reward is NaN and you simply say that there is no ISK reward GÇö you engage in the activity for some other reason than ISK. This doesn't make the measurement subjective, it just questions the arbitrariness of the definition. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Mal Ishos
Red Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.09.05 18:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tippia wrote:it just questions the arbitrariness of the definition.
This entire discussion is arbitrary without an objective definition of what constitutes Risk and Reward in EVE. Neither of which can be objectively defined as they are subjective to those who engage in the activities which generate them.
/thread |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9370
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 18:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:This entire discussion is arbitrary without an objective definition of what constitutes Risk and Reward in EVE. GǪand ISK/h offers such an objective definition that doesn't vary with who is engaged in the activity or who is measuring it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Too-Boku
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 18:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
Risk/reward is easy to define. However, It is very broken at the moment
Presently, I can make about 100m an hour running anomalies in 0.0. But I also have to deal with dozens of people trying to kill me in that hour (possibly). I also need access to halfway decent truesec.
Presently, I can make 100m an hour running Incursions in high sec in relative safety as long as I don't aggress anyone.
Presently, I can make 100m an hour in low sec plexing in a stealth bomber in relative safety as long as I pay attention.
Presently, I can make about 20-30m an hour mining in 0.0 but have to have a dedicated tank and also have to deal with dozens of people trying to kill me in that hour (possibly).
Presently, I can make 20-30m an hour mining in high sec in relative safety while being afk most of the time. At work, doing chores around the house, homework, washing dishes, cooking dinner, driving the kids to soccer practice, etc.
Something is wrong with this picture. |
Mal Ishos
Red Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 18:50:00 -
[73] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand ISK/h offers such an objective definition that doesn't vary with who is engaged in the activity or who is measuring it.
ISK/h varies wildly by who is engaged in the activity. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
536
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:ISK/h varies wildly by who is engaged in the activity. Then you have a wide variety of samples upon which to find a comparable average. Once you have this average for an activity you can confidently say whether you make more, less, or the same as the average. Regardless of that, the average can then be used in the risk calculation. Nothing Found |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9371
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:ISK/h varies wildly by who is engaged in the activity. Yes, but it's still an objective measurement.
You don't suddenly earn different kinds of ISK worth something other than the standard ISK, nor does your activity take some other kind of time that cannot be measured in hours. Also, ISK doesn't suddenly become Altarian Space-Z+éoty nor do hours turn into Wowtanium-decay pulses just because Bob over here is the one counting rather than Alice over there.
Unless you come up with a spectacular explanation for how ISK isn't ISK and hours aren't hours, ISK/h is an objective measurement of rewards. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Telegram Sam
Shoot To Thrill.
361
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
It seems that the risks in EVE can be divided into just a few broad categories:
-The risk that your ship will be destroyed. This can only happen to the ship you're in, not to a ship in your hangar. This can happen through PVE or PVP. -The risk that your pod will be destroyed (causing the loss of a clone and your implants). This can only happen through consensual or non-consensual PVP. -The risk that you will lose isk on the market (because of unexpected changes in buy/sell prices). -The risk that you will lose isk or items to another player through a scam. -The risk that you will lose isk or items to another player because of theft (intra-corp theft or ninja salvaging).
Any others? |
Mal Ishos
Red Federation
47
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:ISK/h is an objective measurement of rewards.
Yes, but obtaining ISK/h is completely subjective to each and every person engaging in the activity you're trying to gauge.
ISK/hr is also not the only measure of Reward in EVE. Narrowing it to one specific metric fits your definition, but is not plausible in a game with dynamic variables and thousands of people with differing goals and definitions of Reward. |
Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative Paradox Alliance
81
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:37:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm thinking someone doesn't know what "subjective" means. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9373
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:45:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:Yes, but obtaining ISK/h is completely subjective to each and every person engaging in the activity you're trying to gauge. No, it's just variable between samples. This is trivially overcome through the use of statistics.
You seem to be very confused about what GÇ£objectiveGÇ¥ means. It does not mean that everything is always exactly the same. It means that the result is observer-independent; that the calculation of the same values always yields the same results. It does not mean that those values must always be the same. Conversely, GÇ£subjectiveGÇ¥ means that the same calculations yield different results depending on who does them. The values varying does not make the measurement subjective GÇö it makes the measurement a new data point. The ability to apply the same metric and methodology to a range of different activities does not make it subjective GÇö it makes it general. Being able to use spot measurements on some and statistical measurements on others does not make it subjective GÇö it makes it comparable. As long as you calculate what it says on the tin: ISK per hour (and explain how you got those two values), it's as objective as anything can be.
Quote:ISK/hr is also not the only measure of Reward in EVE. GǪwhich, again, only raises the question that it might be a bit arbitrary and that it's not universally applicable. That is not a problem. Not everything is about risk vs. reward, so if those activities cannot be measured on that scale, then so what? If I want to juggle eggs, I don't care about gas mileage.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Mal Ishos
Red Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.09.05 20:07:00 -
[80] - Quote
Too many words. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9375
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 20:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:Too many words. That's ok. I believe in you. Just try to push through and see if you can read it all the way to the end. It's kind of important that you understand the difference. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Telegram Sam
Shoot To Thrill.
361
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 22:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:It seems that the risks in EVE can be divided into just a few broad categories:
-The risk that your ship will be destroyed. This can only happen to the ship you're in, not to a ship in your hangar. This can happen through PVE or PVP. -The risk that your pod will be destroyed (causing the loss of a clone and your implants). This can only happen through consensual or non-consensual PVP. -The risk that you will lose isk on the market (because of unexpected changes in buy/sell prices). -The risk that you will lose isk or items to another player through a scam. -The risk that you will lose isk or items to another player because of theft (intra-corp theft or ninja salvaging).
Any others? No takers, eh? OK, I'll just quote myself. Like univ profs do.
In theory, each of these broad categories of risk could be refined to take into account any number of variables. Example: A player is considering soloing the mission "World's Collide," Level 4, solo. The Risk vs. Reward (isk/hour) analysis model could factor in the capabilities of the player's toon and ship capabilities (DPS, EHP, targetting speed, targetting range, cap recharge rate, etc.) and compare those to similar factors for the mission "rooms" (overall DPS, placement, range and speed of the NPCs, warp scrambling abilities, etc.). That would yield the risk figure for "losing a ship to NPCs" category.
Then, the risk of being ganked by another player, killed as a wardec target, etc. while in the mission could be factored. That would alter the figure for "risk of losing a ship" and also yield a figure for "risk of losing a pod." Risk of losing isk on the market or being scammed should be 0 for this activity. If the player is interacting in those areas while on the mission, there would be separate analyses for those.
Then, to calculate the reward (isk/hour) for the activity, the model would take into account the isk for the mission reward and NPC bounties, and the estimated time required to complete the mission. (Looting and salvaging wrecks would be a separate isk/hour activity to be analyzed, with the risk of ninja salvaging or loot theft factored in).
Finally, the "intangible" factors of the player's experience, intelligence, and skill would have to be accounted for. (Here is where a lot of the real world risk:reward analyzers fail, I think. The model is based on hard mathematics, but the intangibles are fuzzy and have to be guessed at intuitively, or estimated on the basis of past performance. Which is a pretty inexact indicator, as anyone betting on horse races or sporting events would know).
In the end, some Risk vs. isk/hour ratio for the Level 4 mission should be produced. In theory, a similar analysis could be performed for any other activity in the game. So one could compare the relative Risk vs. isk/hour ratios of different activities.
(But note: The Level 4 mission example shows that there's a problem with defining Reward as just isk/hour. LP are also earned, but those could be counted as interchangeable with isk. But the example player may not care much about the isk. He may be grinding missions only to get higher standing with an NPC corp or faction. But I suppose standing gain and loss could be factored into Reward as well). |
Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1808
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 23:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Mal Ishos wrote:subjective
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Here's the rub: objective refers to statements without emotional bias. subjective deals with emotional responses to situations.
Here is an objective statement about exploration: in an evening, pilot X probed down 30 sites. From 27 of those sites, pilot X obtained no materials of value. From 3 sites, pilot X obtained materials worth approximately 300M ISK at Jita lowest sell prices.
Here is a subjective statement about exploration: I wasted two hours probing down a bunch of useless sites, but stone the crows if I didn't make bank on the last sites! Why is it always the last place you look?
What Tippia has been trying to tell you is that it is perfectly possible to objectively measure income from activities such as gambling (and thus, invention or exploration). These numbers will be expressed in terms of averages, with standard deviations, or other statistics-type jargon. One might say, for example, that the ISK/hr of mining is 11M ISK/hr mean with a standard deviation of 1M ISK/hr (thus implying that mining is a low income stream, but a very reliable one). One might also say, for example, that exploration has a 5M ISK/hr mean with a standard deviation of 50M ISK/hr (i.e.: it's just likely that you will waste an hour making no ISK, but you might end up making 300M ISK/hr). The statisticians will know the appropriate terms (probably things like "normal distribution" or "gamma distribution" and something to do with the difference between activities which involve chance for fixed reward per attempt, and activities that involve variable reward per attempt)
But in the end, it is very possible to have an objective measure of risk for certain activities. That measure would make most sense expressed in terms of ISK/hr. Thus the cost of failure is ISK, and the chance of failure must be measured in some proportion per hour. You get these units using dimensional analysis (which is simply the analysis of the dimensions used in a particular expression: ISK is a dimension, hours are a dimension, thus the dimensions of the equation to get a result in ISK/hr must involve X ISK and Y/hr).
As an example, I fly a tanked hulk. My risk is the cost of failure (let's call it 200M ISK for a replacement hulk) multiplied by the chance of failure (per hour). For a tanked hulk, that chance of failure per hour is going to be something like 0.1%/hr. That is, for all tanked hulks that were lost, they lived for an average of 1000 hours). For a max-yield hulk, that chance of failure[/] will be closer to 1/10hr (that's not 1/10th of an hour, that's a dimension expressing a mean of 1 event every 10 hours, so perhaps a more descriptive unit would be splodes/hr or failures/hr).
As another example, if I fly a mission running or plexing ship such as a Tengu, the cost of failure will be about 700M ISK (tengu, subsystems, Caldari Navy ballistic controls). The chance of failure per hour will be in the order of 1/100 fails/hr for the average nullsec ratter. The [i]chance of failure per hour rises significantly if you fly that Tengu in hisec, and rises even faster if you fit deadspace or officer modules to that Tengu, and rises even further if you fly that offcer-fit Tengu in Osmon or Motsu (from second hand experience, the chance of failure per hour for an officer-fit Tengu in Osmon is about 1/48 fails/hr).
But what about measuring fun? Did you know that psychologists can actually measure how much fun you're having? Of course, they will measure it in terms of how excited you are, or how aroused you are (aroused is the clinical term for excited, which can include sexual arousal, but usually refers to adrenaline levels, pupil dilation, heart rate, or other physiological measures). Interestingly enough, how much fun you are having is not related to how much you enjoyed an experience, assuming "fun" is defined as "excitement induced for effort expended".
And the cruncher: we can also measure how much you enjoyed something.
These are all objective measures. They are all used by the gambling industry to tailor games to suit the players. This is why poker machines are so dangerous: they are specially designed to trick people into putting more money in. Different machines use different strategies, and the players will gravitate to the machine that gives them the rewards they feel that they deserve. The machine always makes a profit, and the gambler always ends up choosing the machine that extracts money from them at the optimal rate.
Your opinion that mission running is boring is a subjective measure. There is no scale you can measure your opinion against. How much fun you are having is an objective measure. The risk of an activity is an objective measure. The reward of an activity is an objective measure.
There is no magic left in the world.
Well, except for sunsets.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1808
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 23:19:00 -
[84] - Quote
Now here's a new word I want you to meet: variability.
You have stated multiple times in this thread that income is subjective. I think once you get to know variability, you'll realise that it's your new best friend, and subjective just got relegated to the "words that I used to know" bench.
Mission running income is variable, rather than subjective. Thus objective measurements of mission running income (or indeed, any other variable) take the form of statistical measures with uncertainties (i.e.: things like "means" accompanied by "standard deviations"). But statistics is a black art, and I do not grok it at all
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
44
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 23:31:00 -
[85] - Quote
Individual Risks Only
Hi-Sec Risks
War Decs Suicide Ganks- Revenged by Concord Thieves Ninja looters/salvagers Can Flippers Death by NPC Market Losses
Low-Sec Risks
War Decs Ganks (Some protection on gates and stations) Thieves Ninja looters/salvagers Can Flippers (Theoretically they would most likely just shoot you) Death by NPC Market Losses Cyno-Hot Drops
Null-Sec Risks
War Decs Ganks - no protection Thieves Ninja looters/salvagers Can Flippers (Theoretically they would most likely just shoot you) Death by NPC Market Losses Bubbles Cyno-Hot Drops Bombs
This is just a start and not complete or broken down into all the possibilities. But even just enumerating the individual risks doesn't really capture the imbalance in risk versus reward on an individual player level. I say that cause if your an organization that can manage to hold a tech moon then the balance is different.
Wouldn't it just be easier to measure isk/gained versus isk/lost in each section of space because when it comes down to it your really trying to say that for the extra risks in lower security space and the loses that come with operating there your not being rewarded in proportion to the amount you would need to keep up with some alt in highsec over the same amount of time. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9376
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 23:58:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:As another example, if I fly a mission running or plexing ship such as a Tengu, the cost of failure will be about 700M ISK (tengu, subsystems, Caldari Navy ballistic controls). The chance of failure per hour will be in the order of 1/100 fails/hr for the average nullsec ratter. The chance of failure per hour rises significantly if you fly that Tengu in hisec, and rises even faster if you fit deadspace or officer modules to that Tengu, and rises even further if you fly that offcer-fit Tengu in Osmon or Motsu (from second hand experience, the chance of failure per hour for an officer-fit Tengu in Osmon is about 1/48 fails/hr). GǪin fact, for T3s we can potentially do something ridiculously circular and fun. We an define risk in terms of rewards, and normalise the rewards to be our unit so its value is always 1. This gives us a relative measurement that is normalised for each player and each activity.
Why do that? Because if you lose a T3 you lose something else as well: time (or SP, which is much the same thing). How much is time worth? Well, we know how much you bacon you bring home with that reward figure and since we measure that in ISK/h, we have a worth for your time right there. So let's take that hypothetical Tengu and assume that you casually very lazily get 50M ISK/h with it. One hour is now worth 50M ISK. So when you lose that Tengu, your loss equates to 700M ISK = 14 hours worth of rewards. You also lose 78 hours of training time to get back that lvl V subsystem skill you also lost GÇö a total of 92 hours. And then, of course, there's the opportunity cost: while you train back those lost SP, you're no longer getting the full 50M ISK/h, but rather only, say, 45M (10% less), so those three days of retraining also mean you miss out on, oh, let's call it 45M ISK (3h play time per day for 3 days at a reduced income of 5M ISK/h each) GÇö another 0.9 reward-hours worth of loss. In total, the loss is worth 92.9 hours, and using the likelihood of 1/48h mentioned above, that gives us a total risk of 1.94 reward-units.
GǪin other words, the example Tengu in question is not worth the risk it generates. Its risk vs. reward ratio is 1.94:1 GÇö for every hour played, you will statistically be set back 1.94 hours worth of ISK and training time GÇö and you really want that ratio to be less than 1:1.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
98
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 00:01:00 -
[87] - Quote
Another measurement not considered in this risk/reward is fun vs boring. Do you mine your own ore for production or is that too boring and you buy your minerals for production? Do you pay extra high prices to buy stuff because it is right at your stations or do you go 7 jumps to save a few isk.
Fun vs boring plays at least as great a role if not even more so than risk/reward does.
Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Ryoken McKeon
Obstergo Exhale.
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 00:13:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Mal Ishos wrote:subjective Awesome explanation from an overly caring soul.
I'm pretty sure that guy was trolling. Sorry :/ |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1146
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 05:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
This is actually fairly easy, risk related to PVE activities:
No risk: Empty local Low risk: CONCORD protection and people in local Medium risk: No CONCORD but people in local High risk: No CONCORD and no local at all, empty dscan Certain death: No CONCORD and no local, Proteus on dscan
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
ugh zug
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 06:38:00 -
[90] - Quote
losses > or = income annoyances (new space) > or = annoyances (old space) (new space) income < or = income (old space) if true old space > new space too much risk no profit if false new space > old space risk worth while. Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
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