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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.19 22:04:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jack Oat
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Let me try to sum up all of the arguments against the concept of your idea, which is to nerf AFK cloaking.
-Its not an actual problem, if they are afk just ignore them
-afk cloaking is how we "counter local"
-only if you nerf docking
-you must be a botter
and all these arguments will come from the same 6 or so players, over and over and over again without making ANY actual points.
lets see how close I am
If you ignore them/fly in groups they prepare a titan hotdrop for example:
4tengu,2hugin,2 sabre,3scimitars, 4 ceptors + an option for more so ignoring them is not a real option.
Local should not be countered. There is a lot of other tactics, besides, if you want to do a hotdrop look at the screen and nothing will harm you, just recloak and continue watching the system.
"nerf docking" i can't see the point here... you can fly to a pos/safespots.
I'm not a bot, i'm AGAINST boting, but with 1 bastard AFKing in my system
miners went to empire and carebears running missions.
And i personally think that AFK cloakers ARE botters, i just want an OPTION to kill the guy when he is AFK.
The actual point is AFK cloakers disrupt a gameplay of many real people without taking almost any risk, the only option to counter them right now is to have a hotdrop ready titan on standby with large enough gang which is unrealistic for renters.
The actual point is that AFK cloakers given, imho, unfair advantage not in the cloaking part, but in AFK part:
They disrupt a gameplay for 24 hours/day without investing 24 hours a day
Usually there is no retribution possible since overwhelming force hotdropped
I only want an OPTION to fight them and not the whole alliance standing behind them.
So, it's really just the hot-drop capability of enemies right on your front-door that is the problem here.. not the lone AFK-cloaker in your system.
So, in essence.. spool up/down timers for cynos/jumpbridges so that you have a slight chance to get away.
Make a new proposal and aim it at the root of the problem: CYNO-mechanics.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!  |
Wolodymyr
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Posted - 2011.05.19 22:29:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Wolodymyr on 19/05/2011 22:31:03
Originally by: tester Malukker
The problem is they only risk their ships for a few seconds,
when they ready to make their move and we are vulnurable 23 hours
when we undock.
Have you ever lit a cyno?
You sit there for quite a while, you can't warp, move, or dock. If it's a regular cyno anyone in system can warp to you. If it's a Black Ops cyno you have to light it in a moderately expensive ship that you have to let sit there for a while.
Ways to counter a hot drop
1. Go mining / ratting in groups, never alone.
2. Get in a standing fleet.
3. Get on voice comms with your alliance.
4. When someone hot drops you yell "HELP HELP! Warp to me!" into comms. If your alliance is paying attention you'll be able to fight back.
5. Bait them. Do steps 1 2 and 3 but have your own fleet standing by. Go ratting in something juicy but with a good tank (carrier, marauder). When the hot dorp starts, get your tank up, warp in your fleet, drop some bubbles, and start killing.
6. Don't be a botter
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Jack Oat
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Posted - 2011.05.19 22:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Jack Oat
Local is removed in WH, but the attackers can't bring capitals.
I mentioned the fact there are differences, but lack of local still means no AFK cloaking.
Originally by: Jack Oat
Ballance is the problem, with afk cloakers ballance went to hell.
I'm looking on the problem from a standpoint of a small space renting corp.
It matters not what position you look at it from, local is the reason for AFK cloaking. It is the counter to local to try and subvert it's 100% risk free instant intel.
Originally by: Jack Oat
All the cards are given to the attackers:
they know the enemy, (cloaky recons when they aren't AFK all over the place)
they know themselves,
they choose the time and the place of the battle, (usually when they overpower the enemy by numbers or quality or both)
the only thing they don't have is "I win now" button.
You initially hold all the cards. You know they are there, you have the all seeing eye called local. You can see when they enter local and when they leave. But your reliance upon local to give you instant intel, is being somewhat subverted through the use of AFK cloaking. That's why they have to resort to AFKing, to try and put you off guard.
Originally by: Jack Oat
When being AFK is not safe, at least local population could mobilize or hide.
If that ever happens, you'll have way too much power on to of your already powerful intel tool called local.
I can see you hate the idea, of losing your all seeing eye.
Ok man,i get it, you don't like local.
I don't like ppl looking for easy prey so what?
If local will be removed we'll adapt or just move on...
The important question:
is what you prefer to do(looking for easy prey) is the ONLY thing people should do in this game?
If not, they should have a chance to do it.
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Jack Oat
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Posted - 2011.05.19 23:14:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wolodymyr
Edited by: Wolodymyr on 19/05/2011 22:31:03
Originally by: tester Malukker
The problem is they only risk their ships for a few seconds,
when they ready to make their move and we are vulnurable 23 hours
when we undock.
Have you ever lit a cyno?
You sit there for quite a while, you can't warp, move, or dock. If it's a regular cyno anyone in system can warp to you. If it's a Black Ops cyno you have to light it in a moderately expensive ship that you have to let sit there for a while.
Ways to counter a hot drop
1. Go mining / ratting in groups, never alone.
2. Get in a standing fleet.
3. Get on voice comms with your alliance.
4. When someone hot drops you yell "HELP HELP! Warp to me!" into comms. If your alliance is paying attention you'll be able to fight back.
5. Bait them. Do steps 1 2 and 3 but have your own fleet standing by. Go ratting in something juicy but with a good tank (carrier, marauder). When the hot dorp starts, get your tank up, warp in your fleet, drop some bubbles, and start killing.
6. Don't be a botter
yes i have.
you have to sit there 5 min in a recon. while logistics patch you up, an they are there in a matter of seconds.
1) done that, titan dropped a gang with logistics an t3, two faction and two regular BS were down in matter of seconds. (cyno jammer could solve the problem for 20kk/day)
2) our local fleet is smaller and less organized than what falls on us,
the attackers are really brave guys ;) also they have a supercap reinforcements probably.
3) are you renting space? have you heard of CTA? in short not really possible.
4) same as 1) 2) and 3)
if they hang around then probably they baiting you into bringing some reinforcements to kill them with what they have or with another hotdrop.
5) same as all of the above. the guy who was afk cloaker in our system left it and cought a mothership next day, he had 8 supercaps on standby + support. so something with "good tank" would be dead in less than a minute.
6) not a botter. but with afk cloakers it doesn't matter.
In other words, what you are saying is obvious, has been done or impossible in given situation.
The basic problem is that attacker CHOOSES to attack, it means from his point of view he has 100% chances to achieve his goals, AND have a backup plan just in case.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.20 00:02:00 -
[35]
Cyno jammer can solve most of your problem now. Cyno spool-up will solve more of your your problem later. All that's left is those pesky black ops ships, but watching local will work around that problem.
The folks suggesting that "cyno lighters are vulnerable" don't get the point that the cyno is available immediately, losing the cyno lighting ship fourty seconds into the operation doesn't actually hurt. When the target is properly chosen, the ship lighting the cyno can be tanked and repped (as already mentioned).
There does not need to be any special mechanism introduced into the game to make cloaked ships vulnerable. Learn to face your fear, form fleets, own your space. My opinion is that existing mechanisms do need to be tweaked though.
--
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.05.20 04:37:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Cyno jammer can solve most of your problem now. Cyno spool-up will solve more of your your problem later. All that's left is those pesky black ops ships, but watching local will work around that problem.
The folks suggesting that "cyno lighters are vulnerable" don't get the point that the cyno is available immediately, losing the cyno lighting ship fourty seconds into the operation doesn't actually hurt. When the target is properly chosen, the ship lighting the cyno can be tanked and repped (as already mentioned).
There does not need to be any special mechanism introduced into the game to make cloaked ships vulnerable. Learn to face your fear, form fleets, own your space. My opinion is that existing mechanisms do need to be tweaked though.
but it doesn't solve the problem of the cloaked ship being completely invulnerable with absolutely no input from the player. No matter how big the fleet that is formed is the cloaked ship is only vulnerable if he chooses to be. That's the same as me being able to sit in my carrier ratting with reds in system and them not being able to shoot me because of a special invincibility button. They want to kill me but can't because there is no way for them to.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.05.20 07:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jack Oat
Ok man,i get it, you don't like local.
I don't like ppl looking for easy prey so what?
If local will be removed we'll adapt or just move on...
The important question:
is what you prefer to do(looking for easy prey) is the ONLY thing people should do in this game?
If not, they should have a chance to do it.
No actually I like the status quo. I like the fact that AFK cloaking, injects uncertainty into the mix. But it still relies upon you for it to work, Hence why it's called psychological warfare.
But I see the reason AFK cloaking happens but you don't want too. Not only that, you want even more power on top of the already powerful intel tool called local. I don't think that's a good idea.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Jack Oat
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Posted - 2011.05.20 10:04:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Jack Oat on 20/05/2011 10:06:08
Originally by: Mag's
No actually I like the status quo. I like the fact that AFK cloaking, injects uncertainty into the mix. But it still relies upon you for it to work, Hence why it's called psychological warfare.
But I see the reason AFK cloaking happens but you don't want too. Not only that, you want even more power on top of the already powerful intel tool called local. I don't think that's a good idea.
There is no uncertaity here, everyone is certain that a neut is in the system and noone will bet his expensive ratting ship on the slight chance that guy might be afk.
Its harrasment/griefing pure and simple, but my problem is not with the harrasment/griefing, the problem is that while doing so AFK cloacker doesn't risk anything.
Moreover, one man can do it over many systems without playing at all.
If you want to disrupt gameplay of many people, at least have a decency to invest your gametime to do so.
As for reason for AFK cloaking, it is the same as the answer to a question "why do cats/dogs leak their balls?"
"because they can"
Being more specific, why to risk ships, waste time on looking for targets, when you can spread AFK recons in a constellation or two and, when you ready, strike wherever you want?
Its just easier way to have fun with minimal investment of gametime and with current game mechanics you don't risk anything(as a recon pilot).
So the risk/reward is very high... too high i'd say.
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Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.20 10:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Cyno jammer can solve most of your problem now. Cyno spool-up will solve more of your your problem later. All that's left is those pesky black ops ships, but watching local will work around that problem.
The folks suggesting that "cyno lighters are vulnerable" don't get the point that the cyno is available immediately, losing the cyno lighting ship fourty seconds into the operation doesn't actually hurt. When the target is properly chosen, the ship lighting the cyno can be tanked and repped (as already mentioned).
There does not need to be any special mechanism introduced into the game to make cloaked ships vulnerable. Learn to face your fear, form fleets, own your space. My opinion is that existing mechanisms do need to be tweaked though.
but it doesn't solve the problem of the cloaked ship being completely invulnerable with absolutely no input from the player. No matter how big the fleet that is formed is the cloaked ship is only vulnerable if he chooses to be. That's the same as me being able to sit in my carrier ratting with reds in system and them not being able to shoot me because of a special invincibility button. They want to kill me but can't because there is no way for them to.
Obviously this means that docking up, hiding in POSes and logging out all need to be nerfed. When a gang of twenty reds rolls into system and everyone else docks up, hides in their POSes or logs off, there is no way to kill any of them! (Please don't try to claim otherwise, how long do you think it would take to kill even an unstronted large POS with twenty cruisers? I know you've never been to nullsec and all, but try and use your brain for once)
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.20 10:52:00 -
[40]
Danika and Jack Out both make valid and good points. But they are not mutually exclusive.
I say give them the pos de-cloak pulse. Sure if you want to all dock up to avoid it fine but as it costs them isk to use it, it will be a game of cat and mouse of when to use use it. And is an isk sink so it's good for the economy.
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LiquidatorBrunt
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Posted - 2011.05.20 13:22:00 -
[41]
i do not agree,
as already said this is our counter to local,
the solution is remove local, but I am not hardcore enough to support that either, it would actually slow down a lot of the usual gameplay we engage in (i,e roaming) and push give more of the advantage to the big blob gang (though conversely it would be a nerf on their cyno removing on of it's most distinct advantages)
just like a lot of people shouting out ideas they fail to realise actually a lot more experienced players have thought about this... a lot.. and this is not something that can just be changed, in fact it may have to stay that way whether you like it or not
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LiquidatorBrunt
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Posted - 2011.05.20 13:25:00 -
[42]
not to mention how horrific that would be to have your manticore fleet decloacked by some decloaking super weapon, lol actually this is such a stupid suggestion I am not sure why I have posted here
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t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.05.20 13:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Danika Princip
Obviously this means that docking up, hiding in POSes and logging out all need to be nerfed. When a gang of twenty reds rolls into system and everyone else docks up, hides in their POSes or logs off, there is no way to kill any of them! (Please don't try to claim otherwise, how long do you think it would take to kill even an unstronted large POS with twenty cruisers? I know you've never been to nullsec and all, but try and use your brain for once)
if you want to kill someone inside a POS why dont you bring dreads? The whole point of the POS was to allow those who own the POS to force their aggressors to work harder to kill them. It was literally created to make it so that those living in a system would have a way to survive small roaming fleets while still giving aggressors the ability to get them by laying siege to the POS.
The point of cloaking on the other hand was never to allow players to passively harass other players. harassment is encouraged in eve, afkness is not.
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t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.05.20 13:33:00 -
[44]
Originally by: LiquidatorBrunt
not to mention how horrific that would be to have your manticore fleet decloacked by some decloaking super weapon, lol actually this is such a stupid suggestion I am not sure why I have posted here
Way to try to make it look like an extreme measure that would completely iliminate the use of cloaks. The suggestion would not limit the ability of a manticore fleet at all, the players would simply have to turn their cloaks back on and would be vulnerable for 15 seconds. further, they would have to be in a bomber gang set up in someone elses space meaning they should have something to worry about other than whether they are aligned to the target well enough
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Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.20 13:40:00 -
[45]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Danika Princip
Obviously this means that docking up, hiding in POSes and logging out all need to be nerfed. When a gang of twenty reds rolls into system and everyone else docks up, hides in their POSes or logs off, there is no way to kill any of them! (Please don't try to claim otherwise, how long do you think it would take to kill even an unstronted large POS with twenty cruisers? I know you've never been to nullsec and all, but try and use your brain for once)
if you want to kill someone inside a POS why dont you bring dreads? The whole point of the POS was to allow those who own the POS to force their aggressors to work harder to kill them. It was literally created to make it so that those living in a system would have a way to survive small roaming fleets while still giving aggressors the ability to get them by laying siege to the POS.
The point of cloaking on the other hand was never to allow players to passively harass other players. harassment is encouraged in eve, afkness is not.
a) because it's a 20 man roam, and if you try and do anything at all with 20 dreads, someone will drop supers on you.
b) because even if you do hit the pos, you have to come back tomorrow to actually kill it, though I suppose having never been in nullsec, you don't know what reinforcement timers are.
c) hiding in a properly set up pos makes you 100% invulnerable from any roaming gang, much like a cloak does. I thought you were against anyone ever being 100% invulnerable?
Cloaking devices were designed to allow a ship to hide, yes? Well, what are they doing that is against their design? an AFK player is not doing anything to you, your own fear is harassing you.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.20 13:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: LiquidatorBrunt
not to mention how horrific that would be to have your manticore fleet decloacked by some decloaking super weapon, lol actually this is such a stupid suggestion I am not sure why I have posted here
In my experience people who summarily state a suggestion is stupid usually are guilty of not think through the all the factors themselves :)
Why would it be so horrible? Is your entire manticore fleet afk?
Anyways that's a moot point, because if you read my earlier post I was agreeing in so far as the pulse would just make the cloakers detectable via probing for a time period.
Do you think that would be too nerfing? I suppose you would if you like flying into an enemy held system and cloak logoff a lot.
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t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.05.20 14:17:00 -
[47]
Edited by: t''raq mardon on 20/05/2011 14:18:07
Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Danika Princip
Obviously this means that docking up, hiding in POSes and logging out all need to be nerfed. When a gang of twenty reds rolls into system and everyone else docks up, hides in their POSes or logs off, there is no way to kill any of them! (Please don't try to claim otherwise, how long do you think it would take to kill even an unstronted large POS with twenty cruisers? I know you've never been to nullsec and all, but try and use your brain for once)
if you want to kill someone inside a POS why dont you bring dreads? The whole point of the POS was to allow those who own the POS to force their aggressors to work harder to kill them. It was literally created to make it so that those living in a system would have a way to survive small roaming fleets while still giving aggressors the ability to get them by laying siege to the POS.
The point of cloaking on the other hand was never to allow players to passively harass other players. harassment is encouraged in eve, afkness is not.
a) because it's a 20 man roam, and if you try and do anything at all with 20 dreads, someone will drop supers on you.
b) because even if you do hit the pos, you have to come back tomorrow to actually kill it, though I suppose having never been in nullsec, you don't know what reinforcement timers are.
c) hiding in a properly set up pos makes you 100% invulnerable from any roaming gang, much like a cloak does. I thought you were against anyone ever being 100% invulnerable?
Cloaking devices were designed to allow a ship to hide, yes? Well, what are they doing that is against their design? an AFK player is not doing anything to you, your own fear is harassing you.
So it is possible to destroy a POS then? it may be inconvenient to do it with roaming ships(you can take a large death star down with cruiser, you just need A LOT of them and a lot of time) but using the correct ships a POS can be relatively easy to destroy right?
How about a cloaked ship? is there any way to destroy it once its in the system? any special type of ship that can be used to find it? any possible way to counter it?
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.20 14:22:00 -
[48]
Can the OP agree to amend this original proposal from de-cloaking the cloakers in the system to my suggestion of just making them probe-able, with scaling difficulty level, for a limited time, as to dissuade this discussion from going down any further dead ends and moot arguments?
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Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.20 14:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Edited by: t''raq mardon on 20/05/2011 14:18:07
Originally by: Danika Princip
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Danika Princip
Obviously this means that docking up, hiding in POSes and logging out all need to be nerfed. When a gang of twenty reds rolls into system and everyone else docks up, hides in their POSes or logs off, there is no way to kill any of them! (Please don't try to claim otherwise, how long do you think it would take to kill even an unstronted large POS with twenty cruisers? I know you've never been to nullsec and all, but try and use your brain for once)
if you want to kill someone inside a POS why dont you bring dreads? The whole point of the POS was to allow those who own the POS to force their aggressors to work harder to kill them. It was literally created to make it so that those living in a system would have a way to survive small roaming fleets while still giving aggressors the ability to get them by laying siege to the POS.
The point of cloaking on the other hand was never to allow players to passively harass other players. harassment is encouraged in eve, afkness is not.
a) because it's a 20 man roam, and if you try and do anything at all with 20 dreads, someone will drop supers on you.
b) because even if you do hit the pos, you have to come back tomorrow to actually kill it, though I suppose having never been in nullsec, you don't know what reinforcement timers are.
c) hiding in a properly set up pos makes you 100% invulnerable from any roaming gang, much like a cloak does. I thought you were against anyone ever being 100% invulnerable?
Cloaking devices were designed to allow a ship to hide, yes? Well, what are they doing that is against their design? an AFK player is not doing anything to you, your own fear is harassing you.
So it is possible to destroy a POS then? it may be inconvenient to do it with roaming ships(you can take a large death star down with cruiser, you just need A LOT of them and a lot of time) but using the correct ships a POS can be relatively easy to destroy right?
How about a cloaked ship? is there any way to destroy it once its in the system? any special type of ship that can be used to find it? any possible way to counter it?
If by relatively easy you mean 'spend eight hours shooting the pos, hope the guns aren't loaded, hope the locals don't form up, then come back and do the same tomorrow, then yeah, sure, easy.
You can: bait it, ignore it, shoot it once it goes active, ignore it, pay no attention to it, pretend it isn't there, assume the guy is afk until you get something on dscan, not be an idiot, grow a spine and/or stop pretending you ever once set foot in nullsec?
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.20 14:47:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Danika Princip
If by relatively easy you mean 'spend eight hours shooting the pos, hope the guns aren't loaded, hope the locals don't form up, then come back and do the same tomorrow, then yeah, sure, easy.
You can: bait it, ignore it, shoot it once it goes active, ignore it, pay no attention to it, pretend it isn't there, assume the guy is afk until you get something on dscan, not be an idiot, grow a spine and/or stop pretending you ever once set foot in nullsec?
Though not exactly very clear in stating his points, I think t'raq means that it may be hard to counter a POS, but at least you can get tangible feedback while countering a POS. Its a chore yes, but something you can make progress on. No matter how you try to bait or goad an afk cloaker, you really never know its working, especially if the cloaker just on vacation. So where it would cost a lot of isk for you to build a POS to 'deny' strategic space to enemy ratters, you can achieve the same by putting a cloaker 23/7 an a fraction of the cost. Anyway, I think that is his arguement.
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t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Danika Princip
If by relatively easy you mean 'spend eight hours shooting the pos, hope the guns aren't loaded, hope the locals don't form up, then come back and do the same tomorrow, then yeah, sure, easy.
You can: bait it, ignore it, shoot it once it goes active, ignore it, pay no attention to it, pretend it isn't there, assume the guy is afk until you get something on dscan, not be an idiot, grow a spine and/or stop pretending you ever once set foot in nullsec?
I'm glad you can admit you were wrong about a POS being 100% invulnerable. As for what you can do to a cloaked ship; there is nothing that you can do except try to get the player to de-cloak his ship. While the ship is cloaked it IS 100% invulnerable.
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Can the OP agree to amend this original proposal from de-cloaking the cloakers in the system to my suggestion of just making them probe-able, with scaling difficulty level, for a limited time, as to dissuade this discussion from going down any further dead ends and moot arguments?
I think thats an awesome thought. Would avoid actually de-cloaking any active players by only making them scannable (it should require maxed skills to have any real chance of scanning them down). There would need to be some limiting factor on the POS mod though to stop it from being run constantly like you said. Not sure if this would be something easily programmed though.
Also, the people who continue to disagree with the idea of nerfing afk cloakers do so because they are afk cloakers and don't want to have to stop trolling these threads and actually pay attention to the game. No amount of sound logic will ever stop them from flaming you, they are simply lazy and don't want to have to earn their kills
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.20 15:27:00 -
[52]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
I think thats an awesome thought. Would avoid actually de-cloaking any active players by only making them scannable (it should require maxed skills to have any real chance of scanning them down). There would need to be some limiting factor on the POS mod though to stop it from being run constantly like you said. Not sure if this would be something easily programmed though.
Well, I don't want to take too much credit for it. It was Jack Oat's proposal after all, I just added a bit to it in the 2011.05.19 02:50:00 post, as I thought his original proposal would really irritate non-afk cloakers who happen to be in the system, and looking at the starmap or something. In general, I'm in the camp that cloakers should feel 99% safe while cloaked. But when cloaked in enemy (sovereign) territory, then they should feel about ~75% safe.
Quote:
Also, the people who continue to disagree with the idea of nerfing afk cloakers do so because they are afk cloakers and don't want to have to stop trolling these threads and actually pay attention to the game. No amount of sound logic will ever stop them from flaming you, they are simply lazy and don't want to have to earn their kills
I wouldn't go that far to make that assumption. Some people in the thread are just skeptical of random new ideas, especially ones that are not articulated properly. There are just too many impractical and ill-concieved proposals that really the onus is on the OP to make a convincing case. So the sentiment is generally "guilty until proven innocent" unfortunately.
Oh, and be easy on Danika, she actually is pretty knowledgeable in the game mechanics. (at least in my limited experience), more than a few times she has pointed out flaws in my proposals that I didn't consider.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.20 17:38:00 -
[53]
BAWWWWWWWW.
Cyno jam your system, keep a defense fleet up.
Your the one that wanted to move out to dangerous 0.0 space remember, suck it up.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
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Posted - 2011.05.20 18:40:00 -
[54]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 20/05/2011 18:40:32
As long as it affects AFK cloaking only and leaves cloaking itself legitimate, I'm on board.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.05.20 19:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
BAWWWWWWWW.
Cyno jam your system, keep a defense fleet up.
Your the one that wanted to move out to dangerous 0.0 space remember, suck it up.
There are renters in alliance 0.0 who may not have the funds to defend properly. Though regardless of that, a ~30mil tactic that requires a >>>30mil defense (cyno jam) is clearly a play imbalance. Many wars are won by ensuring that your enemies are burning more isk than they are earning, with the victor being the one who has enough isk to keep the fight going. In such a war, a 30mil tactic that makes the enemy waste ($$$)* isk to defend is a strategic win, even if the cloaker never hot drops anyone into the system.
* I'm not sure how much it is in terms of time and isk to set one of these up, but I'm guessing its significantly more than the cost of a cover ops ship.
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.05.20 19:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jack Oat
There is no uncertaity here, everyone is certain that a neut is in the system and noone will bet his expensive ratting ship on the slight chance that guy might be afk.
Its harrasment/griefing pure and simple, but my problem is not with the harrasment/griefing, the problem is that while doing so AFK cloacker doesn't risk anything.
Moreover, one man can do it over many systems without playing at all.
Well it seems that their attempt to subvert local as an instant intel tool, is working rather well on you.
Originally by: Jack Oat
If you want to disrupt gameplay of many people, at least have a decency to invest your gametime to do so.
They are, just not how you like it.
Originally by: Jack Oat
As for reason for AFK cloaking, it is the same as the answer to a question "why do cats/dogs leak their balls?"
"because they can"
And people AFK cloak, because of local.
Originally by: Jack Oat
Being more specific, why to risk ships, waste time on looking for targets, when you can spread AFK recons in a constellation or two and, when you ready, strike wherever you want?
Which would be pointless, without local.
Originally by: Jack Oat
Its just easier way to have fun with minimal investment of gametime and with current game mechanics you don't risk anything(as a recon pilot).
So the risk/reward is very high... too high i'd say.
Yea local intel power is very high and at least people can use AFK cloaking, to reduce it's power somewhat.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Thomas Phillippe
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Posted - 2011.05.20 20:31:00 -
[57]
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.20 20:36:00 -
[58]
Just fyi, im taking the time to create as many cov ops alts as possible across my 6 accounts just to further prove how ******ed you are.
I'm going to watch you do nothing, and theres nothing you can do about it.
Have a nice day.
Oh, and stop posting the same topic over and over again on new alts, you're just making yourself look silly.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.20 20:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Just fyi, im taking the time to create as many cov ops alts as possible across my 6 accounts just to further prove how ******ed you are.
I'm going to watch you do nothing, and theres nothing you can do about it.
Have a nice day.
Oh, and stop posting the same topic over and over again on new alts, you're just making yourself look silly.
pathetic...
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Stark Furlough
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Posted - 2011.05.21 00:47:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
pathetic...
Pathetic would be the so called "Hardcore" players of Null running and hiding when a neut enters system.
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