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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Brooks Puuntai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
719
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Posted - 2012.09.06 23:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Eve is not a true space simulator. Never has never will. This should be common knowledge by now. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
295
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Posted - 2012.09.06 23:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Good thing that this is just a video game and I should really just relax. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Lieutenant Community Communication Liasions (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Agent Akari
Hobo Industries Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.09.06 23:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
What is the OP complaining about? This is a fantasy game. You are like asking people why a fairy should be real and why my boobs can't be more realistic.
Games are balanced to the players, not to reality. |
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
267
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Posted - 2012.09.06 23:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:I am sure this has been bandied about before, but I want to get in my 2 cents. I am rather OCD when it comes to game play physics; especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics. I have noticed the following inconsitancies in the physics of EVE online. Tranquility - EVE-EVE-TRANQUILITY - 7.43.412710
- Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this.
- There is no UP or Down in space. There is a galactic or solar north that could be considered UP/DOWN from a graphics stand point, but this has no bearing on space flight except in the sense of magnetic fields. See this. The physics of aeronautical flight do not apply in a vacuum.
- Thus there is no need for a ship to roll in order to change direction. That being said - assuming these ships have gravity plating only on the decks and not on the wall, it may be necessary to roll in order to redirect the Gs of the centripetal force downward. However, this is very poorly implemented; i.e. the center of mass point for the Myrmidon - a very tall ship comparatively; is somewhere in the middle of the ship. Using the theory above - this would throw all the crewmen in the upper levels into the ceiling.
- There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement.
- There is no (relative term) friction in space - see this. Case in point the density of matter is next to nothing due to it being a vacuum. Thus the only environmental force that would interact on the ship's velocity would be micro gravity from larger bodies.
- A space ship would not stop by ceasing forward acceleration (read: Turning off its engines). It would continue on its current vector until it reversed the direction of its engines and accelerated on a reciprocal vector. Read this.
- A space ship would not change directions and then change orientation as is the current case. If anyone has ever piloted a very heavy ship, like a freighter, you may have noticed that the ship points in the direction you want to warp in and then matches the vector after a period of time. While this is a lot closer to true physics it is not realistic. This goes back to the point above as to the reduction of velocity on one vector must be reduced while acceleration is applied to the new vector. For example: in order to make a 90 degree turn on the same plain the ship must yaw (90+45=) 135 degrees in the direction of intended travel before applying acceleration in order to scrub off the velocity on the previous vector. Doing this describes an arc connecting the previous vector with the new one.
This could be coded by placing a fulcrum point ahead of the ship and having the back "fish-tail" or lag directionally when following this point.
As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
Take your Physics elsewhere, the EVE-Verse operates on it's own laws. |
terzslave
RedStar Enterprises RED Citizens
52
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Posted - 2012.09.07 00:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Space? You must be mistaken. We're in the ocean. |
Jonah Gravenstein
1090
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Posted - 2012.09.07 00:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP will be releasing a submarine MMO in 2015, it's a simple reskin. CCP can't patch stupid. |
Methesda
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 00:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Methesda wrote:I don't think you understand what's going on here. Considering only the servers information... hahahahahaha My butt takes a while to accelerate, and I can shoot it in any direction. I should probably lay off the hot and spicy noodles. She was referring to the way the server uses vectors to handle the physical movement calculations. Which is also the reason ships centering and leveling is impossible to avoid.
Yes, I know what she was refering to.
My point was that it was a generalisation that does give any credence to a case for having a 'realistic' physics system in a game.
You're also doing the same thing using the word 'vectors', like it's something that has a special purpose in making a realistic space simulation! Surely the point is, is it *worth* making it realistic?
'Vectors' are also the most appropriate concept for modelling pool-game physics in Eve. Doesn't mean CCP should devote time to putting pool tables in our mackinaws. |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
165
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Posted - 2012.09.07 00:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
- Been playing for X years and never noticed - No ****/who cares? - Insert backstory/technobabble justification here - Your momma
Pick whichever answer you like. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
101
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Posted - 2012.09.07 00:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
You answered your entire post. It is all discarded because it is not feasible for game play. Imagine combat when you are flying faster than most weapons can shoot. You pass a guy he fires a missile at you and it is traveling at 1/4 your speed. You fire a hybrid round back at him but you are already out of range. In fact you can not get in range. One second you are too far away to hit him, the next second updates and you are too far past him. At the speed you are traveling at you can not turn around or stop in under 30 minutes. Then another 30 minute burn to get back to comabt area. But then you are going too fast again and what maybe you slowed up this time but he was burning toward you the entire time. So your combined closing speed is now just as fast or faster than what it was before. Zip right past he fires missles which never make it to your position and you never have a second in which your guns are in range to fire at him. etc... real physics just like you want. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.09.07 01:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Somebody please introduce the OP to The Secret World Online. I hear that game has great real world physics and reveals to us all the lies that the government has been shoving down our throats. The truth is out there yo. |
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MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
107
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Posted - 2012.09.07 01:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:Started laughing super hard when I saw: Quote:especially when it applies to a game that is based on real world physics EvE is not based on the real laws of physics that we currently understand, and I doubt you would be able to find a single law in our current system that actually holds true in EvE.But congratulations on making the same thread that gets made every single week, and congratulations on having an extremely basic knowledge of physics. If you're going to make points, you should at least make them properly. There's nothing funnier than seeing someone who just finished some basic high school physics and all of a sudden thinks they know what they're talking about. Newton's laws are pretty darn hard, aren't they!
You're wrong because Murphy's "laws" apply to EVE. If boot.ini can't be deleted, your harddrive will be formatted instead. Spreading fat from a botter's corpse with a knife over the top of CATalyst's hull will create a perpetual spinning device that'll fry your videocard. |
Myxx
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
581
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Posted - 2012.09.07 01:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
OMG! Sci fi has unrealistic physics!
OMG! |
Nonnosa
Grey Nomads
6
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Posted - 2012.09.07 03:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be.
The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip.
If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/
Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again. |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
108
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Nonnosa wrote:I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be. The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip. If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again. Haha when I was 7 years old I couldn't manually dock with a station in Elite 1 either, so I had to edit the save file to get the docking computer.
Orbiter is a carebear game, better play Babylon 5:IFH if you want newtonian physics. |
Zanarkand
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
9
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
It was confirmed by CCP 5 years ago, that EVE online is actually a Cold War submarine game, but all the commanders are on drugs, and they imagine they are in space. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
1028
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
For **** sake. Why are you so ignorant? THE OBVIOUS REASON FOR SPACESHIPS HAVING MAX VELOCITY IS DUE TO THE WARP CORE THAT ANCHORS ONES SHIP RELATIVE TO THE UNIVERSAL FABRIC.. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Evelyn Meiyi
Meiyi Family Holdings
38
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: As I said, this is just my 2 cents to CCP on how to make their game more realistic. I am well aware this is a game and that any or all of this post may be discarded as beyond the ability to be coded or not feasible for game play in the current environment.
It's easy to code (all of it is a relatively simple thing to do), but why? Other than 'making the game more realistic', what would the point be? EVE is not a spaceflight simulator, and most of the changes you propose would break the systems that are already intact and functional. |
Arbiter Reformed
Analog Folk SRS.
50
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
you when voyager goes into liquid space? that was eve |
Sebastian LaFleur
Galactic Shipyards Inc
29
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:You answered your entire post. It is all discarded because it is not feasible for game play. Imagine combat when you are flying faster than most weapons can shoot. You pass a guy he fires a missile at you and it is traveling at 1/4 your speed. You fire a hybrid round back at him but you are already out of range. In fact you can not get in range. One second you are too far away to hit him, the next second updates and you are too far past him. At the speed you are traveling at you can not turn around or stop in under 30 minutes. Then another 30 minute burn to get back to comabt area. But then you are going too fast again and what maybe you slowed up this time but he was burning toward you the entire time. So your combined closing speed is now just as fast or faster than what it was before. Zip right past he fires missles which never make it to your position and you never have a second in which your guns are in range to fire at him. etc... real physics just like you want.
Would be hilarious. I guess all the kills would result from two ships colliding into each other by accident. Alliances would insert huge walls of noobships to which any invader would probably hit and explode like a supernovae.
The X-Instinct expands life. The X-Instinct expands consciousness. The X-Instinct is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.-á |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
109
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Posted - 2012.09.07 06:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sebastian LaFleur wrote: Would be hilarious. I guess all the kills would result from two ships colliding into each other by accident. Alliances would insert huge walls of noobships to which any invader would probably hit and explode like a supernovae.
Everyone would explode much sooner by flying through a station or a planet. |
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Tobey Darkness
Outer Space Task Force Germany
8
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Posted - 2012.09.07 07:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
1. Eve is a Submarine Simulator, not a Space Simulator! 2. If you want some nice space gameplay with "realistic" physics, try Kerbal Space Program 3. If you want some nice Simulator, try Space Engine, Universe Sandbox or something like that. 4. "You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration" - Depending on the technology you're using. EVE uses some form of Warpdrive which has no infinite speed and acceleration. 5. With the Warpdrive, the ship aligns itself with the solar systems x-axis. 6. "Friction" - Warpdrive. It's all about the used technics.
And there are other things you might notice: Planets aren't moving. Stations arent as well. Asteroid belts aren't even anything near realistic. Aren't you wondering how so many gigantic ships can fit in that Station in Jita?
Have you asked George Lucas the same questions after watching Star Wars?
I myself would love to see more realistic stuff, like moving planets or realistic asteroid belts, but there is one very good reason why this will never happen: GAMEPLAY.
Do you know what's really dumbing down eve? Graphics! If you really want a hardcoregame with a learning curve that even beats eve: Try bay12games.com/dwarves |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
583
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Posted - 2012.09.07 07:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
does the op realize if we want to have a fully relistic space sim , that most of us would just give up , did you ever tried controlling a object in zero gravity I didn't but i know pretty well it is not easy or did you ever tried real space flight , i didn't but there used to be a great sim out that let you recreate all the great missions in space , historical and what ifs , it is just bloody difficult you can try it here I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
59
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Posted - 2012.09.07 08:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ogedei Khaghan wrote: Space does not have a maximum speed. You CAN have a maximum rate of acceleration due to mass to thrust ratios. The only limiting facter on speed in space is the ability to avoid running into space dust which would destoy a ship if the collision velocity is too high. Currently MicroWarp and afterburners are able to increase the maximum velocity and acceleration of a star ship which shows that any shielding that would be used to protect the vessel from collisions is better than these maximum speeds. In a real world setting the plow shielding would need to be upgraded to withstand micro collisions before increasing the maximum speed. Reference this. The speeds we achieve are of course nowhere near the speed limit of the universe in normal flight - and we break the speed limit of the universe by a huge factor on a very regular basis in warp... However the tutorial used to discuss the huge fusion reactor which was the source of the power for your capacitor, fuelling that fusion reactor by means of a huge magnetic scoop to drag in interstellar hydrogen would create a very significant drag factor on your ship and therefore a counter to your thrust and an effective speed limit on your ship.
Ogedei Khaghan wrote:
There is no need for a spacefaring vessel to "right" itself in relation to the galactic/solar north. While this does make for some easier comprehension of game play it shows a poor comprehension of 3 dimensional movement. There is no need for a ship to adjust orientation relative to the star's equatorial plane but if you're static and you have effectively infinite fuel... is there any reason not to? Keep in mind too that your ship's technology is not worked up from first principles - perhaps Terran vessels did have a need to reorient to the star's equatorial plane and what we have is simply a relic from that seed. |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1730
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Posted - 2012.09.07 08:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
wow, your stupid opinion was sooo worth getting posted !
I congratulate you ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
59
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Posted - 2012.09.07 09:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down" |
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.09.07 09:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:the tutorial used to discuss the huge fusion reactor which was the source of the power for your capacitor, fuelling that fusion reactor by means of a huge magnetic scoop to drag in interstellar hydrogen would create a very significant drag factor on your ship and therefore a counter to your thrust and an effective speed limit on your ship.
If that was the explanation then you would fall slowly into the nearest planet when you pressed CTRL+space, because orbiting would be impossible |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1327
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Posted - 2012.09.07 11:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:For **** sake. Why are you so ignorant? THE OBVIOUS REASON FOR SPACESHIPS HAVING MAX VELOCITY IS DUE TO THE WARP CORE THAT ANCHORS ONES SHIP RELATIVE TO THE UNIVERSAL FABRIC.. What pattern is this fabric?
I think this is an important question
its plaid rite?
rite? TK is recruiting |
Sebastian LaFleur
Galactic Shipyards Inc
29
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Posted - 2012.09.07 11:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: If there is no "up" in space, why do all the ships in Star Trek always approach each other the same way up?
I mean you never see an episode where the Romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the Enterprise and it's upside down.
QED Space has "up" and "down"
LOL, That is so true!
The X-Instinct expands life. The X-Instinct expands consciousness. The X-Instinct is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.-á |
Sinigr Shadowsong
WATAG Academy SOLAR WING
3
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Posted - 2012.09.07 11:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Eve "space" actually much more like liquid enviroment. Spaceships act like submarines. Submarines have "Up" and "Down" side, limited maximum speed, lose speed if turn off engines, can be bumped. Charges underwater can only travel a limited distance. Turning is slow rotating, inertia is a non-factor. Lasers disperce on very short distance. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
105
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Posted - 2012.09.07 12:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nonnosa wrote:I agree with OP Eve is not "realistic' but you dont want it to be. The old PC game Frontier: Elite 2 had newtonian physics for flight which made control of your ship any where from difficult to impossible. The auto pilot module was the first and most essential piece of equipment you had to equip. If you want to try realistic space flight I suggest Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/Remember it is a simulator, not a game. You'll never complain about Eve being hard ever again.
You could also check out I-War and I-War 2; they had amazing flight simulation mechanics.
It did give me a proper nerdasm to get to jump through a lagrange point :)
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