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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hexxx on 24/05/2011 00:45:52 Edited by: Hexxx on 24/05/2011 00:36:37 Hi. We're launching a player-run Insurance service.
Wut?
You'll want to read this first: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1170228&page=1#1
And after that, you'll want to read this too. Please note that I gave up all my ISK when I resigned and walked away with virtually no ISK to my name. I mention this now because it will be mentioned by others if I don't. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=823144
Why would I buy insurance from you?
In-game insurance is voided under the following conditions:
- Repackage your ship
- Trade your ship to another player
- Put your ship into a corporation hangar
- Sell your ship on the market
- Put your ship inside a contract.
EVE Insurance (EI) will not be voided under any of those conditions, and once purchased, is good for any loss that any linked character may experience.
Linked character?
EI uses user profiles which can be loaded with a currently unlimited number of EVE Accounts and Limited API Keys. All characters under any given account can then be loaded and "linked" to the user profile. In essence, one user, multiple characters. Policies are purchased by the user, not the character?
What?
One policy covers multiple characters.
Cool!
Yeah.
So how do I buy an Insurance Policy?
Simple...send ISK to the Corp with the ticker "EFSI". See Hexxx's corp and just send money there. It will be posted to your account within an hour if you've linked the character who sent the cash. If not, link the character at any point afterwards and the cash will post to you account when you do. You can withdraw you deposits, claims, etc whenever you'd like. We expect a turn around of 12 hours at the most...but reserve the right that it may take up to 24 hours. Your bank account currently will pay 0% interest.
Now wait a damn second...this sounds like a Bank!
Yes. Yes it does. Probably because it is.
WTFBANKFAIL!
We're using bank functions to move money....that's it. Calm down.
SCAM!!!!
I didn't work on coding and designing for 2 years with Sencnes to steal 2 billion ISK. Also, who do you think paid for hosting all this.
WTF! AUDIT!
Right now we aren't going to be allowing the public to see the ledgers and financial statements, but I will make a deal with you (the public). Elect an auditor and I will give them the necessary access to the ledgers and my full API. You can ask them whatever you want, and they can provide you with whatever data you desire.
I'll go a step further and also give them select source code on request. Choose wisely.
Your business will fail!
It may. Sencnes is underwriting the insurance policies and for the beta period we will not allow potential claims to exceed premiums plus the reserve fund of 2 Billion ISK. The beta period is us testing the software AND the business model. We don't intend to pass losses off to customers/testers...Sencnes will be absorbing those loses (and me, with what little I have). We can turn off the sale of policies at any time by making them inactive, which removes them from the Insurance marketplace.
When will beta end? What happens then?
Beta will end in roughly 3 to 5 months from now. At that point we'll decide on whether to aggressively expand or call this little experiment a failure. We will honor all contracts purchased during this time. If we choose to close, we will simply cease to sell contracts and do a "withdraw all" on all accounts to pay them out.
edit: formatting edit2: forum thread link fail /facepalm
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:36:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Hexxx on 24/05/2011 00:37:38 You said something about ledgers?
All financial transactions that can be done within EI are recorded as a financial transaction in one of 4 ledgers....asset, liability, revenue, and expenses. There's also a "meta" ledger called owner's equity where we track the equity set aside as a "claims reserve".
Who's working with you on this?
Sencnes and I have been working on EI for a very very very very long time...but we have some people who have joined the team in the past few months. I'll let them step forward as they see fit and talk about what they're bringing to the project.
Are you going to sell shares?
Maybe. We want to see if the business model works first. Call us old fashioned.
Hey, this website is cool! How does it work? Is it magic like a magnet? How do magnets work anyway?
The website uses the MVC 3.0 framework from Microsoft with C# and the Razor view engine. SQL Server 2008 handles the data and I do make use of LINQ and Injection Dependencies/Inversion of Control. Oh, and JQUERY (a little). I maintain two instances; a development/QA instance and a production instance. Each has it's own respective database. Each instance is logically seperated from the other.
So where's the website?!?!?!?!
http://development.eve-insurance.net/
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:38:00 -
[3]
First!
Now to read it
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:42:00 -
[4]
..I'd like to retract my previous negative comments to you and your new venture. Player ran services and innovations are a part of what make Eve great, and it seems you have a passion for service and innovation. Good luck to you and your business.
First obvious questions are what ships are eligible for insurance?
What are the stipulations that will allow a payout?
How much does the policy cost?
How much is the payout?
How will you prevent fraud?
Is the policy a one time fee or a monthly fee?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..I'd like to retract my previous negative comments to you and your new venture. Player ran services and innovations are a part of what make Eve great, and it seems you have a passion for service and innovation. Good luck to you and your business. Thank you, I would like to mention that I've had help in this too. Sencnes obviously, but others will make themselves known in time. Just wanted to share the credit here.
First obvious questions are what ships are eligible for insurance? Currently we sell policies for... Hulks, Mackinaws, Skiffs, Obelisks, Orcas, Iteron Mark Vs, and Iteron Mark IV's.
What are the stipulations that will allow a payout? API KillLog. I know for some this is a deal breaker. I understand, but I won't yield on this point. So long as the policy contract is valid and the kill occurred during the coverage period, you get a payout as soon as you claim. You can withdraw from your account or use the cash to help buy another policy.
How much does the policy cost? Depends on which ship. Currently we have only policy per ship. Hulk's cost 70 million and payout 133 million. It's a rough 1:1.9 ratio.
How much is the payout? See above.
How will you prevent fraud? We don't detect fraud, we prevent it. We price our policies in such a way that fraud isn't profitable.
Is the policy a one time fee or a monthly fee? One time, similar to in-game. We wanted to keep it familiar and straight forward.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:54:00 -
[6]
A pretty minor point: What's with the "ú" symbols? All those very-insignificant digits in the premiums and payouts are distracting enough without adding in a wacky non-ISK currency symbol.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:55:00 -
[7]
..Second round of questions, and I feel these might be the most important.
What are your thoughts and ideas on the way Ray and Co. handled the closing of EBANK? Please answer separately.
The complete asshattery to innocent investors by Ray.
The refusal to pay out isk to anyone associated with a Corp who has frauded EBANK, even tho it is unknown whether the individual was involved in the scam?
The total PR nightmare that is Ray and Armarr?
The might is right policiy changes by the EBANK BoD?
The "rah rah" EBANK cheerleeding by SecneS?
Putting the business first, customer second?
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:55:00 -
[8]
Hi Hexxx
Ill check it out,
Not sure if it will take off, most 0.0 Already have a Ship replacement program (SRP) on top of standard insurance, And they would be more likely to trust alliance members than a random MD Guru.
Given that, did you have any idea what your core market would be?(High sec players?) I realize 0.0 isn't the be all and end all of this game.
best of luck, nice to see a new idea though.
inb4 moved to sell order forums.
___ iCandy Bonds
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Stealing Honest
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:57:00 -
[9]
As per SCC channel Hex you have stated there are other employees in this operation. Will you make these employees known to the public please?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Second round of questions, and I feel these might be the most important.
Um...start another thread or use Ebank's existing thread?
Investor Relation | BSAC SE Listing |
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.24 00:58:00 -
[11]
..Something that wasn't touched on in your reply Hexxx, is what are the stipulations? If my iteron gets popped in nul sec, because I was auto piloting, in very hostile space, will I get a payout?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Thoraemond A pretty minor point: What's with the "ú" symbols? All those very-insignificant digits in the premiums and payouts are distracting enough without adding in a wacky non-ISK currency symbol.
Ahh...part of the default currency format. I'll tweak the format this week to be less distracting. This is why I'm calling this a beta.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Something that wasn't touched on in your reply Hexxx, is what are the stipulations? If my iteron gets popped in nul sec, because I was auto piloting, in very hostile space, will I get a payout?
There is no way the insurance company can tell if you were autopiloting.
Highly doubt the insurance company will be so thorough as to know what is "Hostile space" to the customer. lots of paperwork & unrewarded time being spent tbh to fight over a 500k isk payout. ___ iCandy Bonds
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Something that wasn't touched on in your reply Hexxx, is what are the stipulations? If my iteron gets popped in nul sec, because I was auto piloting, in very hostile space, will I get a payout?
Yep. No restrictions outside of the character being linked to the user profile that purchased the insurance and so long as the loss was incurred during the period of coverage for the insurance contract that was purchased.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:03:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 24/05/2011 01:04:52
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Second round of questions, and I feel these might be the most important.
Um...start another thread or use Ebank's existing thread?
..You'll note I asked Hexxx what is thoughts were on these actions. A second thread would be pointless as this thread is the Q and A thread.
The EBANK thread has noting to do with Hexxx's new venture.
As Hexxx was involved with the start of EBANK, I would like to know what he thinks of the end of EBANK.
And as there are some bank elements to this new business, questioning the CEO about previous bank's actions seem prudent.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hexxx
Is it magic like a magnet? How do magnets work anyway?
So, how do magnets work anyways? Sometimes I hold two up and they stick together and sometimes they act like my parents and stay away from each other. I'm so confused.
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Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:09:00 -
[17]
Sixteenth!
Also, interesting, will watch.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Second round of questions, and I feel these might be the most important.
What are your thoughts and ideas on the way Ray and Co. handled the closing of EBANK? Please answer separately.
If you're wondering about my management style, I would have sought financing through an IPO and then wound the Bank down and restructured it so that investors (not depositors) bore the risk while maintaining some kind of liquidity. This is not to say what EBANK ended up doing was "wrong", just a different way to handle things.
Quote:
The complete asshattery to innocent investors by Ray.
This thread is about me and EI, not how other people manage their businesses.
Quote:
The refusal to pay out isk to anyone associated with a Corp who has frauded EBANK, even tho it is unknown whether the individual was involved in the scam?
This thread is about me and EI, not how other people manage their businesses.
Quote:
The total PR nightmare that is Ray and Armarr?
This thread is about me and EI, not how other people manage their businesses.
Quote:
The might is right policiy changes by the EBANK BoD?
You can see via my posting history while part of EBANK as to what I think about this. I'm not honestly sure what you're asking.
Quote:
The "rah rah" EBANK cheerleeding by SecneS?
I think enthusiasm is a valuable trait.
Quote:
Putting the business first, customer second?
Not sure how this applies to EI. Bottom line, we sell contracts, we honor contracts, we give your money to you on request.
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Stealing Honest
Stealing Honest Speculation Group LLC
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:23:00 -
[19]
I would like a public answer to my question Hexx if you wouldn't mind please.?
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:30:00 -
[20]
Good luck prodding people into using this.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:30:00 -
[21]
..Very diplomatic reply to my last question. I understand why you would want to avoid them. Two years down the road customers might have wanted answers to these questions.
So let me clear it up a bit.
Bank A did the things I outlined.
You are a semi bank.
How different would your handling of the things I outlined be?
Do you approve or disapprove of the way bank A handled the issues?
If you choose to deflect these questions again, then I'll bow out for now and wish you good luck.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Stealing Honest I would like a public answer to my question Hexx if you wouldn't mind please.?
The others will reply in this thread...shouldn't be any surprises honestly, just want them to get a chance to introduce themselves and what they're doing.
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The Illustrious Juden
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:35:00 -
[23]
I'm sure I missed it but are you going to bother verifying losses and if so how?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Very diplomatic reply to my last question. I understand why you would want to avoid them. Two years down the road customers might have wanted answers to these questions.
So let me clear it up a bit.
Bank A did the things I outlined.
You are a semi bank.
How different would your handling of the things I outlined be?
Do you approve or disapprove of the way bank A handled the issues?
If you choose to deflect these questions again, then I'll bow out for now and wish you good luck.
I already addressed your question about my management style with regards to how the financial aspect was handled. As to the people aspect, I put a higher value on PR then perhaps what the current EBANK management does. This isn't a slam to them, I just do things differently.
Implicitly, I would have handled things differently and my previous reply highlighted those differences. I'm willing to touch on these points, but with so much written about this so far, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here.
If you have specific questions, I will answer them. If your questions are open ended opinions about someone else, they become harder to address. The thread I linked to in the beginning outlines how I plan to run this operation and without being specific about what you take issue with exactly, it's hard for me to justify putting a ton of time into trying to address it.
Be specific in your questions, I'll be specific in my answers. Deal?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:37:00 -
[25]
Good luck with it, I am really, really, REALLY curious if it could possibly work at all. If it *can* work, yours has a good chance to be one of the better ones.
Questions of a practical nature: * how long to "breakeven" (duration for premiums to reach payout value) for a first-time customer ? * is the premium/payout user-selectable or system-fixed per ship ? * if variable, is there a limit to per-ship payout (like, say, highest Jita buy order minus in-game max-insurance payout minus premium) ? * will there be any "user reliability" based premium/payout adjustments (as in, first-time customers get poor rates, repeat customers with no claims getting better and better rates, like a real insurance company) ? * is this ship insurance only, or can it also cover (a portion of) destroyed modules ?
You know, stuff like that. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Illustrious Juden I'm sure I missed it but are you going to bother verifying losses and if so how?
Via the full API Key and the KillLog API Data. Yes, this is a deal breaker to some people, but the only way to validate a loss in a reliable manner.
Other details...all passwords are fully encrypted. API Keys are not encrypted in the database...but then you don't need to store them, only load them up when you want to load losses to file a claim or link your characters.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.24 01:46:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Hexxx on 24/05/2011 01:46:48
Originally by: Akita T Good luck with it, I am really, really, REALLY curious if it could possibly work at all. If it *can* work, yours has a good chance to be one of the better ones.
Questions of a practical nature: * how long to "breakeven" (duration for premiums to reach payout value) for a first-time customer Depends on how many characters they've linked and how many ships of the insured ship type each character possesses and could fly. Remember, since we're selling a policy to the player to use for any character linked...and it's not specific to an individual ship, only a ship type...the player could be saving a serious amount of cash here. If it's one character with one ship...then two premium payments equal just over one payout. * is the premium/payout user-selectable or system-fixed per ship ? Right now, just one premium/payout per ship. In the future there may be more...I'd be interested to see what people think of the premium/payout options we have and which ones they'd like to see.
* if variable, is there a limit to per-ship payout (like, say, highest Jita buy order minus in-game max-insurance payout minus premium) ? There is, and we adjust it based on a weekly or monthly update to the rough market value of a ship. This effects policy pricing, NOT policy payout. In other words, once you purchase a contract...that payout is set. * will there be any "user reliability" based premium/payout adjustments (as in, first-time customers get poor rates, repeat customers with no claims getting better and better rates, like a real insurance company) ? I'd like there to be, but for now we need to focus on proving the model itself is viable. I'm very very very open to tweaking the model after we establish viability.
* is this ship insurance only, or can it also cover (a portion of) destroyed modules ? Damn good question. =) We have talked about insuring modules and cargo. I have not written a single line of code for that yet...it's just theories and pricing models on a spreadsheet.
You know, stuff like that.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.24 02:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Akita T * how long to "breakeven" (duration for premiums to reach payout value) for a first-time customer
Depends on how many characters they've linked and how many ships of the insured ship type each character possesses and could fly. Remember, since we're selling a policy to the player to use for any character linked...and it's not specific to an individual ship, only a ship type...the player could be saving a serious amount of cash here. If it's one character with one ship...then two premium payments equal just over one payout.
And the duration is ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2011.05.24 02:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 24/05/2011 02:29:12 ..I gather that you would handle things differently then the EBANK BoD. For me that satisfies my questions.
Except for the EBANK ole'switcharoo might is right policy change. Will you go on record saying that current (at the time) customers will grandfather in and not be subjected to significant policy change?
Now, say EI takes off running and all is well. Do you have intentions to open shop and act as a formal bank? By accepting deposits for returns?
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.05.24 02:30:00 -
[30]
I can't find how this.. actually works. Am I not looking hard enough?
The linked site seems to have nothing, either.
How much does this cost, and what do you get, would be my question. Specifics, not ethereals. Go make a new disaster, that's what I'm counting on. You're someone else's problem, now I only want you gone... |
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