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Delila Lamperay
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Posted - 2011.05.29 03:50:00 -
[1]
What is this Perfect World, Guild Wars, WoW?
In order to use my Incarna features I have to either buy a PLEX or buy it off someone who has bought it with a PLEX? Even if I buy a PLEX with ISK for the 'Aurem' its still the same.
No offense but this is pretty low. This is literally something out of those crappy Chinese MMORPG's.
Why Can't we simply use ISK to purchase these goods, or have some form of exchange rate for ISK and 'Aurem'
And why would you have to raise the subscription rate If you don't use the PLEX's? You are already gonna use this engine on at least two other games, which you will presumably make money.
I'm gonna keep playing but this sounds way too close to the generic pay as you go theme.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.29 03:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2011 03:59:34
Originally by: Delila Lamperay In order to use my Incarna features I have to either buy a PLEX or buy it off someone who has bought it with a PLEX?
No. In order to have access to all the clothes and accessories and whatnot else that will exist in the game, you will have to do that. But to access functionality, you don't need to do any of that.
Quote: Why Can't we simply use ISK to purchase these goods
You can. Indirectly. By buying a PLEX with ISK first. What do you care that somebody else had to buy the PLEX with cash first ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.29 04:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Akita T
Quote: Why Can't we simply use ISK to purchase these goods
You can. Indirectly. By buying a PLEX with ISK first.
àin fact, you can do it directly since they will be available on the market under the new category "apparel". ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Delila Lamperay
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Posted - 2011.05.29 04:20:00 -
[4]
My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. No matter how far they try to make this exchange indirect, a real money exchange is a factor in this.
Even though these are vanity items, this is nothing more than a pay as you play scheme. If that is something CCP wants to get into than well I have a little less respect for them for it. It's not gamebreaking and certainly not enough to make me quit, just a lil embarrassing.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.29 04:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tippia in fact, you can do it directly since they will be available on the market under the new category "apparel".
Yeah, but she'll say that somebody else has to buy it first and put it up for sale so we're back to "indirect" again
Originally by: Delila Lamperay My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. No matter how far they try to make this exchange indirect, a real money exchange is a factor in this.
So ? Selling or buying a PLEX is basically the same, from the standpoint you're complaining about. If you want to be up in arms about it, you have to be equally unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too. In fact, why even bother talking about AUR and Incarna when that's not even your actual beef ? So, are you unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too ? Bad news for you then. They're not going away.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 29/05/2011 05:16:50
Originally by: Akita T *Snip*
Originally by: Delila Lamperay My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. No matter how far they try to make this exchange indirect, a real money exchange is a factor in this.
So ? Selling or buying a PLEX is basically the same, from the standpoint you're complaining about. If you want to be up in arms about it, you have to be equally unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too. In fact, why even bother talking about AUR and Incarna when that's not even your actual beef ? So, are you unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too ? Bad news for you then. They're not going away.
The fear among the opposing playerbase is simply 'non-vanity items for real world money' down the road.
As for the mechanic you lay out there: real money > vanity items > isk instead of or in addition to: real money > plex > isk it's perfectly fine with me and probably the majority of most of the opposing players. Well, maybe some of the dress-up-players might be concerned with availability of AUR and the ISK/AUR conversion rate. CCP will have to look at this very closely.
Though, it's a door that has been/will be opened and people are rightfully concerned that CCP might step over the line there at some point. Anyone from the upper food-chain at CCP up for a statement along the lines of "We'll never do non-vanity items for cash sales until the servers shut down."?
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Orlacc
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:17:00 -
[7]
Everyone needs to lighten the f up. I swear there are folks who NEED to find things to ***** about.
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Julienne Poirier
Gallente Nonya Endeavours
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:27:00 -
[8]
Its ccp's game. They believe their actions are best for continuing the game's existence. You're just renting.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Delila Lamperay My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. .
this has been a Micro transaction game from the instant they made it posilbe for players to Exchange GTCs for ISK.
they just made it a lot easyer with ingame plex.
they plan to make it somehow even easyer soon.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 29/05/2011 05:16:50
Originally by: Akita T *Snip*
Originally by: Delila Lamperay My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. No matter how far they try to make this exchange indirect, a real money exchange is a factor in this.
So ? Selling or buying a PLEX is basically the same, from the standpoint you're complaining about. If you want to be up in arms about it, you have to be equally unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too. In fact, why even bother talking about AUR and Incarna when that's not even your actual beef ? So, are you unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too ? Bad news for you then. They're not going away.
The fear among the opposing playerbase is simply 'non-vanity items for real world money' down the road.."?
Dude, we are alreay WAY past that point.
Want a full set of Plus 5 implants, Buy plex, sell for ISK, buy Implants Want a hanger full of the T2 faction ships of your choice? Buy Plex, Sell for Isk, Buy fleet.
Bascialy anything in game you want can be bought with Plex.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Julienne Poirier Its ccp's game. They believe their actions are best for continuing the game's existence. You're just renting.
If CCP didn't wanted feedback they wouldn't have this forum and allow posts about the object, nor would they have a comment link attached to their dev blogs.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Julienne Poirier
Gallente Nonya Endeavours
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Julienne Poirier Its ccp's game. They believe their actions are best for continuing the game's existence. You're just renting.
If CCP didn't wanted feedback they wouldn't have this forum and allow posts about the object, nor would they have a comment link attached to their dev blogs.
So why is this thread here when there is a comment link in the dev blog?
Linkage
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Akita T *Snip*
Originally by: Delila Lamperay My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. No matter how far they try to make this exchange indirect, a real money exchange is a factor in this.
So ? Selling or buying a PLEX is basically the same, from the standpoint you're complaining about. If you want to be up in arms about it, you have to be equally unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too. In fact, why even bother talking about AUR and Incarna when that's not even your actual beef ? So, are you unhappy with PLEX/GTC transactions too ? Bad news for you then. They're not going away.
The fear among the opposing playerbase is simply 'non-vanity items for real world money' down the road.."?
Dude, we are alreay WAY past that point.
Want a full set of Plus 5 implants, Buy plex, sell for ISK, buy Implants Want a hanger full of the T2 faction ships of your choice? Buy Plex, Sell for Isk, Buy fleet.
Bascialy anything in game you want can be bought with Plex.
There is a little difference there.. real cash > plex > isk > ingame advantage vs. real cash > ingame advantage
the yellow marked part is the thing people want to be sure it stays, as this means someone somewhere had to put effort (yeah I know, T2 BPO, moon-poo, L4 missions, bots come to mind as counter) to create those isk and items ingame.
If you are able to logically dissect that and render the argument pointless, go ahead. I'd like to be convinced of your point of view.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Julienne Poirier
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Julienne Poirier Its ccp's game. They believe their actions are best for continuing the game's existence. You're just renting.
If CCP didn't wanted feedback they wouldn't have this forum and allow posts about the object, nor would they have a comment link attached to their dev blogs.
So why is this thread here when there is a comment link in the dev blog? Linkage
CCP stopped reading/answering it and some partial points of the discussion might get lost in the threadnought..?!
Also, are you a mod? If not, it's not your business.. report the OP if you have to.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Julienne Poirier
Gallente Nonya Endeavours
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Also, are you a mod? If not, it's not your business.. report the OP if you have to.
huh? report the op for what?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Julienne Poirier
Originally by: Tres Farmer Also, are you a mod? If not, it's not your business.. report the OP if you have to.
huh? report the op for what?
Originally by: Julienne Poirier So why is this thread here when there is a comment link in the dev blog?
You're just trolling now, right?
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.29 05:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2011 03:59:34
Originally by: Delila Lamperay In order to use my Incarna features I have to either buy a PLEX or buy it off someone who has bought it with a PLEX?
No. In order to have access to all the clothes and accessories and whatnot else that will exist in the game, you will have to do that. But to access functionality, you don't need to do any of that.
Quote: Why Can't we simply use ISK to purchase these goods
You can. Indirectly. By buying a PLEX with ISK first. What do you care that somebody else had to buy the PLEX with cash first ?
You can also buy them directly with ISK from another player that bought them with Aurum. I can't heal stupid
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 07:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
There is a little difference there.. real cash > plex > isk > ingame advantage vs. real cash > ingame advantage
the yellow marked part is the thing people want to be sure it stays, as this means someone somewhere had to put effort (yeah I know, T2 BPO, moon-poo, L4 missions, bots come to mind as counter) to create those isk and items ingame.
If you are able to logically dissect that and render the argument pointless, go ahead. I'd like to be convinced of your point of view.
Tres stop kidding yourself on that
with the typical Free to play game out there that has a micro transaction base you have 3 levels of players
the free players (in this case someone who spends time out of there gameplay to grind the cash they need to play, they basicaly start off 400 million in the hole every monthy currently so they have to spend an hour or so grining 14 million extra just to "break even"
the "baseline fee" player who bascialy is paying the base ammount, and in this case able to avoid the need to grind out around 14 million a day just to stay in the game,
and the Feemium who does not need to spend a single second grining anything for ISK or mats or whatever in order to keep playing. just chuck ~30 USD at the game every time they need something.
trying to insert the two extra steps and say "its diferent" is lying to yourself and everyone around you.
and lying to yourself is the first step in getting yourself podded by some wet behind the ears scamp in this game.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 07:48:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 29/05/2011 07:50:39
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Tres Farmer
There is a little difference there.. real cash > plex > isk > ingame advantage vs. real cash > ingame advantage
the yellow marked part is the thing people want to be sure it stays, as this means someone somewhere had to put effort (yeah I know, T2 BPO, moon-poo, L4 missions, bots come to mind as counter) to create those isk and items ingame.
If you are able to logically dissect that and render the argument pointless, go ahead. I'd like to be convinced of your point of view.
Tres stop kidding yourself on that
with the typical Free to play game out there that has a micro transaction base you have 3 levels of players
the free players (in this case someone who spends time out of there gameplay to grind the cash they need to play, they basicaly start off 400 million in the hole every monthy currently so they have to spend an hour or so grining 14 million extra just to "break even"
the "baseline fee" player who bascialy is paying the base ammount, and in this case able to avoid the need to grind out around 14 million a day just to stay in the game,
and the Feemium who does not need to spend a single second grining anything for ISK or mats or whatever in order to keep playing. just chuck ~30 USD at the game every time they need something.
trying to insert the two extra steps and say "its diferent" is lying to yourself and everyone around you.
Why is CCP so strict on their macro/bot policy then? That's essentially the same discussion.. players get an advantage over others by creating stuff when they are not on the keyboard. If you allow: cash > stuff out of thin air > ingame advantage you can also allow bots/amcro > stuff out of thin air > ingame advantage.
Who are you kidding here?
I know that you can buy anything ingame for cash already, but that stuff never appeared out of thin air for the whole ingame economy. That's the key here.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 07:53:00 -
[20]
CCP is strict on the bot problem because it (a) generaly the whole bot and hacking issue is disruptive to the game and more specificaly because (b)the botting and hacking 3rd party RMT is in open compitition with the plex for ISK modle they have set up
If players cant Bot then they must spend RLD for ISK If the Botters and hackers provide ISK for RLD then that cash has no way of going into CCPs pocket.
Plex for ISK is, no matter how you try to slice it, RLM going to CCP for ingame services.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 08:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Who are you kidding here?
I know that you can buy anything ingame for cash already, but that stuff never appeared out of thin air for the whole ingame economy. That's the key here.
I am kidding noone.
here is the reality
the player who grinds ISK and or items from missions or mining or what have you to pay for his subscription IS CREATING SOMTHING THAT HE WILL NEVER USE. Anything he creates for all intents and purposes goes down the rathole of the ISK for Plex market and pops up in someone elses hands for use.
For all intents and purposes the person who sends off ISK to play EVE online to someone who gives him the ability to play the game. In essence CCP is basicaly trying to replace each and every steriotypical Chiness gold farmer or russian account hacker with a fairly large chunk of the player base with whats basicaly a Defacto ISK tax on there playtime.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.29 08:12:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 29/05/2011 08:12:40
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Tres Farmer Who are you kidding here?
I know that you can buy anything ingame for cash already, but that stuff never appeared out of thin air for the whole ingame economy. That's the key here.
I am kidding noone.
here is the reality
the player who grinds ISK and or items from missions or mining or what have you to pay for his subscription IS CREATING SOMTHING THAT HE WILL NEVER USE. Anything he creates for all intents and purposes goes down the rathole of the ISK for Plex market and pops up in someone elses hands for use.
For all intents and purposes the person who sends off ISK to play EVE online to someone who gives him the ability to play the game. In essence CCP is basicaly trying to replace each and every steriotypical Chiness gold farmer or russian account hacker with a fairly large chunk of the player base with whats basicaly a Defacto ISK tax on there playtime.
All fine and dandy, but there are limited resources in Eve. The moment you allow limitless resources to pur in via cash > ingame items you'll get a problem.
2$ for 1 million units pyerite? here please.. 15$ for 1 carrier? here please.. 30$ for an outpost? here please..
Is that possible today? Yes, no doubt.
Could you do it repeatedly without influencing those prices there? No.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 08:13:00 -
[23]
and before anyone gets there nose bent out of joint, yes I will probably buy a plex with RLM in order to buy Aurum. since they currently plan for literaly EVERYTHING in incarna to be avalible anywhere at any time if you pay Aurum, then frankly for me its just less of a hastle to do it that way than to mess around trying to find the item on the market place.
and also. Quite frankly, I have literaly no problem with the whole RLM for plex for Isk for ingame item microtransaction system that EVE online has now.
I just wish people would stop BLEEPinglying to themselves that its anything other than exactly that.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Illuminaty
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Posted - 2011.05.29 08:21:00 -
[24]
Having the isk being a middle-man between cash and in game items is an important distinction.
Selling a plex right now is paying RL money to another player for their labor (i.e. their isk). CCP is simply being a middleman.
Buying isk or items with RL money straight from CCP is completely different.
In terms of how EVE works, the distinction is huge.
As for Incarna and Arum... If charging for useless frill items lets CCP bring in more cash to hire full time employees to make useless frill items is what lets us finally be able to have paint jobs on ships, then FULL SPEED AHEAD!
I need rims to put on my gold-plated megathron. I'm dead for serious. Make it happen CCP.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.05.29 08:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Delila Lamperay Why Can't we simply use ISK to purchase these goods, or have some form of exchange rate for ISK and 'Aurem'
It's "Aurum" (as in, "gold pieces"). And you'll be able to use ISK once people take the goods from the Loyalty ù sorry, Item Store to the open market.
Why can't we simply use ISK to purchase Rattlesnakes?
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.29 08:56:00 -
[26]
Tres, wake up and smell the Damed coffee.
plex has been an intrigal part of the game for over a year now. by and large the market realy dosent show mutch strain from any price jumps or slumps in plex prices nowdays.
let me put this in a way you should be able to understand
in December, the average trade volume in plex was 3225 per day
thats around 1,128,750,000,000 just in plex EVERY DAY.
or to put it another way. based strictly on Dr Enyos QEN
Thanks to plex alone,91 TRILLION Isk traded hands in the 4th quarter last year.
that, Ironicaly, seems to compare quite strongly with the 100,4 Trillion in new ISK that was injected into the EvE economy from bounties, mission loot and mission rewards generated durring the same quarter.
32 extra plex would not even be noticed at that volume of trade, and I honestly doubt that anyone would even pay mutch attention to 100 extra plex comeing from one person, odds are anyone willing to pump that mutch plex into the market will know better than to dump it all in at once.
but thats still enough cash to suport some other efforts in game on a local scale.
the basic problem remains though. a lot of people try to act like right now there not already on the so called slipery slope of Micro transactions.
the reality is we have been on it for some time already, and its been slowly gaining speed for quite some time now.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.05.29 09:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Delila Lamperay My deal is that a real-money exchange is taking place. No matter how far they try to make this exchange indirect, a real money exchange is a factor in this.
Waaa, waaa, cry me a river!
If you don't like it the bugger off.
But first show me some other company in the MMO business that cares even 1/10 of how CCP cares for EVE and its community.
You want tons of stuff but don't want to pay for it? Yeah, you bet, who doesn't? And no, your subscription fee doesn't entitle you to get endless amount of free vanity items additonally to two free expansions per year, constant improvements, free EVE voice and other goodies. |
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