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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.30 00:32:00 -
[1]
CCP since you are reshaping the Maller hull. Please take a look at the Sacrilege. After the last missile changes this ship suffered indirectly one the biggest nerf's in Ships Eve history. At the moment is the only HAC that can't shoot at more then 30 Km (!!!) without loosing one of the Bonuses. All the other HACS can hit at longer ranges without having to sacrifice any of the ship bonuses.
The sacrilege could be easily on pair with all the other HACS if the ship could have is 5% damage bonus to missiles not only for Ham's but also for Heavy Missiles. I'm not talking about boosting the ship performance but only make the Sacrilege what it was before. A ship that could hit at roughly 75km with max skills.
Thank you
Strength and Honour |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.05.30 10:41:00 -
[2]
it seems amarr dont get bonuses for heavy missiles at all, only for HAMs. The legion cant shoot HM as well because of HAM bonus.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:02:00 -
[3]
This would tread on the toes of the Cerberus in a big way. I'd just give the Sacrilege another low - the extra space for more tank or gank would go a long way to improving it at the range it's meant to operate at. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.05.30 11:42:00 -
[4]
Sac needs another med to be viable shield-tanked, or another low to be viable armour-tanked. But its greatest problem is the existence of tier 2 BCs in general, and the Drake in particular.
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Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.30 12:06:00 -
[5]
If memory serves, Sacrilege used to be before a split weapon type laser/missile boat which couldn't exactly decide if it wanted to shield tank or armour tank, but had the Maller armour tank bonus. Come Khanid Mk.2, and they were made armour + short range missiles, and some time later, Sansha were made lasers and shields. Personally, I'd have done things the other way (Khanid for lasers/shields and Sansha for missiles + armour tank), but as things are, they're alright.
Looking at the bonuses, when using damage types other than kinetic and heavy missiles, the Sacrilege does have equal damage to the Cerberus. When using HAMs, it does more damage than the Cerberus. (Naturally it has much shorter range.) What could be considered is a bonus allowing HAMs to hit smaller/faster targets, which would indirectly boost damage. (Since HAMs aren't "guided missiles", the guided missile precision skill takes no effect.)
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Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.05.30 12:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington This would tread on the toes of the Cerberus in a big way. I'd just give the Sacrilege another low - the extra space for more tank or gank would go a long way to improving it at the range it's meant to operate at.
Though I usually find myself in agreement with you, in regards to your Cerberus point I doubt it would take much toll for a couple of reasons.
1. It has no range bonus while the Cerberus has 2 giving it a much farther effective range, which is the major point along with Sig Rad to use it over a Drake. It's missiles will also connect faster due to higher launch speeds.
2. It is an Armor Tanker so I would doubt you would see them in the same fleets. There is no point where an overlap exist as a Cerbs specialized role is shield long range where a Heavy Sac would be Armor Medium Range. It also wouldn't get the Assault Missile Launcher Bopnus unique to the Cara line that makes them gould frig killers.
Between Armor and Range correct me if I am missing something but overlap does not seem like a serious concern. As for the change I do not have much opinion etheir way as I do not fly a Sac.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.05.30 13:03:00 -
[7]
You actually make some very good points there. Yeah - overlap actually would be pretty limited looking at the complete picture, and I suppose I could still see myself flying both. I suppose this would also help make the Sacrilege a bit more viable in larger gangs, right now it just seems like a (rather nichT) solo toy to me. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.30 21:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Robert Caldera it seems amarr dont get bonuses for heavy missiles at all, only for HAMs. The legion cant shoot HM as well because of HAM bonus.
Well the supposed prize for the AT9 is actually a Maller hull with, among others, a bonus of 50% to all missiles ROF if you are to believe in this pic: Linkage
The question is that the Sacrilege was gimped to hell with the HAM Javelin range nerf making only able to fight at very close ranges. All other Hacs can attack at Close/Medium/Long ranges, the Zealot can hit at 80-100km, the Ishtar 60-70Km, The Eagle 140km, the Munin... hell even a vaga can fit Medium artys, without loosing bonuses but this doesn't happen with the Sacrilege.
Strength and Honour |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.05.31 00:30:00 -
[9]
Give it a 50% HAM Velocity Role Bonus.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Sakaras Lane
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Posted - 2011.06.03 06:54:00 -
[10]
Sacs fine of all the close range hacs it is one of the best, if any ship needs to be reworked it needs to be the Deimos. Fact is your flying it incorrectly sac is a close range buffer ship and it works exceedingly well in that role, if you want to fly a sniping hac go for the cerb, zealot, or eagle. Remember eve is a team game don't cry because your ship can't fulfill every roll.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.06.03 09:28:00 -
[11]
Quote: it works exceedingly well in that role
Oh hi. I'm a Drake. I do the same thing better for less isk and less skillpoints. How exactly does the Sacrilege work "exceedingly well" compared to that? _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
NovaReon
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Posted - 2011.06.30 12:15:00 -
[12]
Sacrilege lacks exactly one low slot to be truly effective. Being able to fit one more BCU in addition to a reasonable armor tank would make it an excellent ship to fly. I might even take mine out of the garage again.
Either that, or make it able to shield tank like the Curse.
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.30 13:14:00 -
[13]
Diemost is pretty short range as is Vagabond (although fast) and Blaster Eagle .. so range is not the main issue.
My biggest beef with it is the lacklustre damage it can put out, sure you can lol-shieldbuffer it and fill lows with BCS but if that doesn't count as a reason not to fix the Asstart/Brutix/Blasters then neither should it count for Sacrilege.
What I think might work: - Increase capacitor or the recharge bonus. - Move midslot to low (holy crap, never thought I'd suggest that for Amarr ).
Cap tweak helps when losing a booster (web is mandatory) and extra low opens tank or spank options.
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DraconisAlpha
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.30 13:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: DraconisAlpha on 30/06/2011 13:38:04
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote: it works exceedingly well in that role
Oh hi. I'm a Drake. I do the same thing better for less isk and less skillpoints. How exactly does the Sacrilege work "exceedingly well" compared to that?
lol hi, you won
Eve tools |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.30 14:11:00 -
[15]
boost hams not the sacri
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.06.30 14:41:00 -
[16]
Sacrilege is an awesome ship - Caldari T2 ships unfortunately sucks with HAMs :-( The sacrilege is a choice and tbh I never thought I'd hear anyone complaint about the sacrilege hehe It might not have bonus to heavies, but maybe you should fly a zealot if you wanted a long range ship? -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.30 18:22:00 -
[17]
The cap bonus, although nice, is switchable for something else but I'm not sure what that still fits Amarr and HAMs.
However, I'd rather not see the Sacrilege become an EM Amarr version of the Cerberus. Instead another low-slot or a bigger dronebay would help. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Hound Halfhand
Minmatar Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.07.01 02:47:00 -
[18]
IMHO, all HACs need a rework to make the viable for what they cost and how long it takes to train up for them.
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.01 06:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hound Halfhand IMHO, all HACs need a rework to make the viable for what they cost and how long it takes to train up for them.
Just harder to do than even AFs and look how far that has come
Frigates have just dictors/destroyers "above" them with same size guns (ie. frig size no advantage), but those two are relatively flimsy. HACs have BCs 'above' them with same size guns (ie. no advantage from cruiser size), and they have oodles of EHP/DPS ..
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Hikivirta Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.01 10:38:00 -
[20]
sacrilege is nice ship which works for both pvp/pve
there's a lot of other things to do than mess with a fine ship
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