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Chira'Relael
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:18:00 -
[1]
I havent been involved in the upper-echelons of this discussion but i'm dying to know why the HS incursions are being shut down so quickly.
please stay on topic when replying and provide links to thread topics, as i wish to be informed.
thanks ahead of time.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:32:00 -
[2]
Working As Intended.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Goose99 on 02/06/2011 23:34:27
Originally by: Chira'Relael I havent been involved in the upper-echelons of this discussion but i'm dying to know why the HS incursions are being shut down so quickly.
please stay on topic when replying and provide links to thread topics, as i wish to be informed.
thanks ahead of time.
Shield got each and every mom under the old aggreement, so the deal is off. Armor now forms mom fleet before mobilizing, but shield still want moms, so incursions get popped.
The old agreement was doomed from the beginning. Overwhelming majority of highsec carebears are shield, so shield forms far faster and gets mom every time, armor gets nothing. It's only a matter of time before the armor rage builds up.
A sustainable agreement would be somewhere along the lines of: Shield manage Caldari and Minmatar moms as they see fit, Armor manage Gallente and Amar moms as they see fit.
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Face'off
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Posted - 2011.06.02 23:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Goose99 Shield got each and every mom under the old aggreement, so the deal is off. Armor now forms mom fleet before mobilizing, but shield still want moms, so incursions get popped.
The old agreement was doomed from the beginning. Overwhelming majority of highsec carebears are shield, so shield forms far faster and gets mom every time, armor gets nothing. It's only a matter of time before the armor rage builds up.
A sustainable agreement would be somewhere along the lines of: Shield manage Caldari and Minmatar moms as they see fit, Armor manage Gallente and Amar moms as they see fit.
i would hate to see it divided amongst Empire lines but i can see the reasoning (jump wise). im an armor pilot myself so i know the rage portion. since this game runs 23hours a day i know it's impossible to be online every time a mom mobilizes.
i dont wish for these incursions to be up for a whole week. i think 3 or 4 days should be the limit. gotta rotate the crops, ya know. all i would ask for is the CHANCE to get a mom. i hope to see more armor pilots as time moves on.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2011.06.03 01:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Goose99 A sustainable agreement would be somewhere along the lines of: Shield manage Caldari and Minmatar moms as they see fit, Armor manage Gallente and Amarr moms as they see fit.
Since 90% of the high sec Incursions take place in Amarr space, I'm pretty happy I fly Armor =) - Explosions!
ORE Field Offices
POS vs DUST |
Panhead4411
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Posted - 2011.06.03 02:10:00 -
[6]
Well, by killing them instantly, it does reduce the ISK and LP faucets that CCP has been complaining about, and to counter this they were/are considering higher taxes and lower bounties, so maybe this is a good thing?
I for one was not enjoying the week long occupation of my home system while everyone farmed it for everything it was worth. And then complained that by the time it mobilized it had slowly reverted back to a higher influence percentage, for which they blamed the devs...
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Isan'na
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.06.03 05:13:00 -
[7]
The actual issues started due to a few dissenting pilots who were angry about BTL consistently winning Mom fights and their difficulties in assembling a large armor fleet due to the disparity in numbers. They repeatedly spoke out against the agreement because they were unable to achieve their personal goal of 'winning' the Mom fight, but in an aggressive, self-centered, and belligerent manner. Not to mention loudly.
Throw in a couple altercations in the space of two weeks, and relationships were strained. One of the final straws was the dissenters openly and knowingly violating the terms and killing an incursion before agreed.
What they ignored is the good that was achieved through the agreement, and the benefit to the average incursion runner, while claiming that the community sided with them. The current removal of the agreement is a harsh method of reminding why there was an agreement in the first place, and a reminder that pilots who broke the agreement are just as culpable as the FCs and suffer the same repercussions.
In either case, the FCs are meeting again tomorrow to rediscuss terms and actions that need to be taken, and the meeting will be open to the public.
Originally by: Goose99
A sustainable agreement would be somewhere along the lines of: Shield manage Caldari and Minmatar moms as they see fit, Armor manage Gallente and Amar moms as they see fit.
As previously pointed out, the vast majority of incursions spawn in Amarr space. What you really need to do is get some strong leadership and declare a specific constellation as the focus for the Armor community, so that you'll have unified strength. Don't whinge if others do it better. <Isan> MALD Incursion Store |
Dayreth
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Posted - 2011.06.03 05:56:00 -
[8]
why anyone bothers with mom? vanguards are way better isk/hour even if you are limited to OTAs. just get your vindi/kronos/pali with fed navy webs and logi...
if you try to get to assault or larger size you endup sitting doing nothing for at least half the time you are online - mom fleets take forever.
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asmodian thorkrah
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Posted - 2011.06.03 09:18:00 -
[9]
BTL's FC's like to stroke the E-Peen.
Armor is completely disorganized compared to Shield.
Best solution for the community is to combine both shield and armor under one group, distributing the moms out fairly between the different groups of FC's.
Why this wont happen?
Because hardon is to busy lubricating himself with drool produced from the other shield FC's to be able to see that having two separate communities is not going to work. The argument received against this is the competing over sites..... This happens now between shield/shield armor/armor shield/armor on vanguards and other sites.
If both sides really have the community in mind BUT really think mom competitions is important then make the agreement that shield has 1st mom 2nd goes to armor 3rd is up for competition. Then reset
Accepting flame from Hardon licker's...3.2.1.Go
btw i fly shield
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.03 09:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: asmodian thorkrah BTL's FC's like to stroke the E-Peen.
Armor is completely disorganized compared to Shield.
Best solution for the community is to combine both shield and armor under one group, distributing the moms out fairly between the different groups of FC's.
Why this wont happen?
Because hardon is to busy lubricating himself with drool produced from the other shield FC's to be able to see that having two separate communities is not going to work. The argument received against this is the competing over sites..... This happens now between shield/shield armor/armor shield/armor on vanguards and other sites.
If both sides really have the community in mind BUT really think mom competitions is important then make the agreement that shield has 1st mom 2nd goes to armor 3rd is up for competition. Then reset
Accepting flame from Hardon licker's...3.2.1.Go
btw i fly shield
Goddamn why are the tears from this so good? We're literally seeing the NC collapse and yet the best chat **** is being produced in the two different highsec incursion channels. Over working as intended gameplay mechanics no less.
lol
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2011.06.03 09:30:00 -
[11]
I'm not going into who started killing Moms early.
But how exactly do you stop people from killing Moms for their tasty loot?
Relevant material:
Prisoner's dilemma
Originally by: Wikipedia The best deterministic strategy was found to be tit for tat, which Anatol Rapoport developed and entered into the tournament. It was the simplest of any program entered, containing only four lines of BASIC, and won the contest. The strategy is simply to cooperate on the first iteration of the game; after that, the player does what his or her opponent did on the previous move.
Considering that, I expected Shield to go "let the mom live" again soon and everybody should just relax till that happens.
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A'Brantox Foson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.03 10:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: A''Brantox Foson on 03/06/2011 10:39:24
Originally by: Dayreth why anyone bothers with mom? vanguards are way better isk/hour even if you are limited to OTAs. just get your vindi/kronos/pali with fed navy webs and logi...
if you try to get to assault or larger size you endup sitting doing nothing for at least half the time you are online - mom fleets take forever.
This guy speaks the truth.
Mom sucks, also it can take well over an hr to form then run, which is below the magic 60mil/hr... which armor will be raking in bear minimum if they know their peanuts.
Also if I remember right, armor used to rule the roost and thanks to people like hardin, shield got a chance to get a little better. I ran with shield at 1st, then w/o kicking up fuss, started flying with armor. Then as things evened up I wanted to start flying my battleships, being minmatar, started flying shield again.
Also I am very very rich now and have at least few months of PvP ships :3.. or if I wanted to, could buy a motherships or 50mil SP char lol... if I was a bit more fiscal... so i'm not going to any for a while :)... Edit: and none of this s down to winning mom sites :P
Jurgan Klinsman was here |
JackStraw56
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Posted - 2011.06.03 11:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Smagd I'm not going into who started killing Moms early.
But how exactly do you stop people from killing Moms for their tasty loot?
No one does it for the loot. That is a tiny percentage of the payout if you actually get it. Lowsec may be different where the revenant bpc can drop, but that's not what this thread is about.
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.06.03 12:10:00 -
[14]
Looks like its abit of a childish argument here between armor and shield fleets, with the effect that sites get finished faster. The funny thing is, is that his is a disadvantage for all incursion runners because you cant farm them properly anymore.
And for christ sake, who cares whether shield or armor finishes the mom? Its vanguards where the isk is anyway.
If there is any sense left in those 'leaders' of armor/shield channels, just let shields pop most of the moms and give armor an occasional chance, -BUT only if there are at least 2 in either minnie/gal and amarr/caldari space-.
No rocket science.
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Rez River
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Posted - 2011.06.03 12:16:00 -
[15]
Actually, it is not working as intended. It was not intended for a incursion to be completed within 4 hours.
The intentions is to disrupt the system for several days, and take a large effort to kill it within a couple of days. To get people in local to either evacuate the area or help with the incursions.
When the incursions where managed by the fleets, you actually had quite a influx of players wanting to try an incursion. If incursions only live for 4 hours then most people will never even see them.
I would suggest to look back at the original intention and fix some things of the incursion: 1. They take 2 days to complete 2. Incurse all systems not just the ones that are almost empty anyway. **** of more people; then I finally get to see some other systems then the handful of constellations that they can spawn in now. 3. Fix the bounty ratio, between HQ/assault/vanguard.
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Chira'Relael
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Posted - 2011.06.04 07:19:00 -
[16]
either way, it's beneficial to both sides of the fish tank. economics, social and pvp'ical interactions are blossoming. business is good and people are hyped. their saving up for Incarna so they can chill on their sofas and watch their commodities increase in their tickers.
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abalys
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Posted - 2011.06.07 12:32:00 -
[17]
A sustainable agreement would be somewhere along the lines of: Shield manage Caldari and Minmatar moms as they see fit, Armor manage Gallente and Amar moms as they see fit.
what???? allmost all incursions are in amarr space so think what you talk
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Crabs Collector
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Posted - 2011.06.07 14:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: abalys A sustainable agreement would be somewhere along the lines of: Shield manage Caldari and Minmatar moms as they see fit, Armor manage Gallente and Amar moms as they see fit.
what???? allmost all incursions are in amarr space so think what you talk
In the past there have been many times that there were no incursions in amarr, and loads in gallente/minmatar space.
Anyway none of the incursionrunners wants the moms to get popped fast. So those nubs leading armor/shield incursion channels should grab some new brains.
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.07 15:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rez River Actually, it is not working as intended. It was not intended for a incursion to be completed within 4 hours.
The Incursion can end when the mothership is killed.
Working As Intended.
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Aryndel Vyst
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.07 15:11:00 -
[20]
Sorry pubbies it's working as intended.
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abalys
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Posted - 2011.06.07 16:40:00 -
[21]
the comunitys now agree and hold the mom site till the last minute but now the goons decided to make in les fun for hi sec runners
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.07 17:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: abalys the comunitys now agree and hold the mom site till the last minute but now the goons decided to make in les fun for hi sec runners
There are two highsec incursions up atm. Spawn time ended up being staggered. It's impossible to kill off for the time being.
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.07 19:43:00 -
[23]
Dance, pubbies! Dance!
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Goddess Ishtar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.07 19:55:00 -
[24]
Goons ruin everything.
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HardinSalvor
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Posted - 2011.06.08 08:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: asmodian thorkrah BTL's FC's like to stroke the E-Peen.
Armor is completely disorganized compared to Shield.
Best solution for the community is to combine both shield and armor under one group, distributing the moms out fairly between the different groups of FC's.
Why this wont happen?
Because hardon is to busy lubricating himself with drool produced from the other shield FC's to be able to see that having two separate communities is not going to work. The argument received against this is the competing over sites..... This happens now between shield/shield armor/armor shield/armor on vanguards and other sites.
If both sides really have the community in mind BUT really think mom competitions is important then make the agreement that shield has 1st mom 2nd goes to armor 3rd is up for competition. Then reset
Accepting flame from Hardon licker's...3.2.1.Go
btw i fly shield
And now for the required comment...
u mad bro?
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i hatechosingnames
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.08 09:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: HardinSalvor
And now for the required comment...
u mad bro?
mad would be a self important incursion FC deciding to kick someone from their public chat whom put forward constructive criticism...
the same someone who happens to be a goon FC that could easily rally a whole bunch of people to come play in highsec incursions...
now who do we think this self important incursion FC is boys and boys pretending to be girls?
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.08 13:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Goose99 on 08/06/2011 13:52:36
Originally by: i hatechosingnames
Originally by: HardinSalvor
And now for the required comment...
u mad bro?
mad would be a self important incursion FC deciding to kick someone from their public chat whom put forward constructive criticism...
the same someone who happens to be a goon FC that could easily rally a whole bunch of people to come play in highsec incursions...
now who do we think this self important incursion FC is boys and boys pretending to be girls?
So that's what it's all about. You got kicked, boohoo, Goon drama. Lulz.
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i hatechosingnames
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.08 17:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Goose99 So that's what it's all about. You got kicked, boohoo, Goon drama. Lulz.
lulz they have no highsec incursions to run...
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.08 18:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ladie Scarlet on 08/06/2011 18:11:57
Originally by: i hatechosingnames they have no highsec incursions to run...
Victory!
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.06.08 22:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Edited by: Ladie Scarlet on 08/06/2011 18:11:57
Originally by: i hatechosingnames they have no highsec incursions to run...
Victory!
Gratz, you have deprived carebears for like 2 hours before the next one spawned. Apparently goons are not smart enough to kill 3 moms at once so spawns are not staggered. But then again, if they are, they wouldn't waste time in highsec acting as extra dps and tank to pug fleets in mom sites, while under wardec by the usual orphans & company.
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