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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
815
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Posted - 2012.09.09 10:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
No this is not me asking for donations for CSM member, sorry people
I was just wondering while finding a better way to have elections have the CSM considered having a fee to run as a candidate.
The tournament had one and I would say the modest fee of 2 Billion should cover it.
This will lower the number of false candidates no matter what system is introduced and 2 Billion would be easy for someone to get if they wanted onto the CSM and it makes for a small isk sink as well.
After all we are after intelligent people who know this game. You do not know it while a newbie but even then if a newbie was eager enough he could just buy 4 plexes.
It would be an even better barrier when combined with this years 100 likes. This way we get people who want to be on the CSM and are willing to suffer more than just an election loss.
That and make voting only available to accounts active for longer than 3 months to save people activating old accounts with 1 plex just to rig the election.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.09 11:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why would people activate their old accounts with plex if Hours for plex works fine? |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.09 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Besides that, who would spend a plex on voting for someone anyway? Even if you may think we are evil Overlords it's not like everyone has 20 inactive accounts and without those Mittens only would have gotten 100 votes. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
818
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Besides that, who would spend a plex on voting for someone anyway? Even if you may think we are evil Overlords it's not like everyone has 20 inactive accounts and without those Mittens only would have gotten 100 votes. How strange that you would get defensive on this when members of Goonswarm have stated many times that they go not create new accounts with plex or activate old accounts with plex to vote.
Nor did I mention Goonswarm.
But the fact is the number of old accounts who are reactivated to vote is unknown but the number of new accounts older than 30 days but under 250 day is always a good percentage of the voters.
CSM 7 8,447 making up 14.29% of voting accounts CSM 6 7,200 making up 14.67% of voting accounts CSM 5 8,598 making up 21.80% of voting accounts CSM 4 4,824 making up 22.80% of voting accounts CSM 3 6,258 making up 22.47% of voting accounts CSM 2 4,337 making up 21.56% of voting accounts CSM 1 6,253 making up 25,37% of voting accounts
Now I don't know about you but 25% of the votes to start with but as the total number of votes has grown the percentage has shrunk, means to me new accounts are being made for vote rigging but who ever is doing it cannot keep up as the voting numbers increase.
So yes Voting should only be allowed in characters continuously subscribed for 3 months straight. The only real argument anyone could make is "That will cost us too much" as although I am for more people voting characters below 3 months really would not have a good enough grasp on the game to know what the CSM does properly let alone know who to vote for. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: How strange that you would get defensive on this when members of Goonswarm have stated many times that they go not create new accounts with plex or activate old accounts with plex to vote.
Yeah, it's especially strange when you consider the baseless accusations about how we would actually plex accounts to vote from all that isk we get from our moongoo.
Also I don't see a problem with 14% of the voting accounts being under 8 months old. If you are relatively new to a game you are much more involved than some bittervet that only logs in once every other week to change out a skill. That players who started playing the game 2 months ago and are actively involved in the game have not enough grasp to understand what's going on is absolutely baseless conjecture. One could argue that most people that frequent this forum have no idea of what's going on, but since they are subscribed longer their voice is somehow more important?
Ask CCP for proper numbers, if you actually want to argue 'voter fraud'. Get the number of voters who have accounts that are under 2 months old and if most of the 14% are consisting of people that are subscribed for 2 months you have a point, but in this form it's just BS. |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.
While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot. I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
818
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.
While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot. I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though. I chose 2 as I thought that was the fee for the Alliance tourny. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm pretty sure the AT fee was 10 Plex, so about 5b. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
818
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Frying Doom wrote: How strange that you would get defensive on this when members of Goonswarm have stated many times that they go not create new accounts with plex or activate old accounts with plex to vote.
Yeah, it's especially strange when you consider the baseless accusations about how we would actually plex accounts to vote from all that isk we get from our moongoo. Also I don't see a problem with 14% of the voting accounts being under 8 months old. If you are relatively new to a game you are much more involved than some bittervet that only logs in once every other week to change out a skill. That players who started playing the game 2 months ago and are actively involved in the game have not enough grasp to understand what's going on is absolutely baseless conjecture. One could argue that most people that frequent this forum have no idea of what's going on, but since they are subscribed longer their voice is somehow more important? Ask CCP for proper numbers, if you actually want to argue 'voter fraud'. Get the number of voters who have accounts that are under 2 months old and if most of the 14% are consisting of people that are subscribed for 2 months you have a point, but in this form it's just BS. CCP do not store more specific numbers or if they do they have not released them even though this subject has occured after every election for the last few years.
And as I said below 3 months to not be able to vote is not really loosing anyone who knows what the CSM really does, while preventing vote fraud is a lot more important. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
818
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Posted - 2012.09.09 12:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:I'm pretty sure the AT fee was 10 Plex, so about 5b. Yeah it was 10 plex, but that might be a bit high that is almost real money. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
630
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Posted - 2012.09.09 21:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
If i had to pay to be a CSM, i don't think I would have run. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart."-á -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
CliveWarren
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.09.10 01:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Great idea, Frying Doom!
...wait, what do you mean you didn't actually want nothing but powerbloc candidates? |
Sal Volatile
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.09.10 03:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
I bet blocs hate this idea the way Brer Rabbit hates the briar patch. |
Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
693
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 09:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.
While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot. I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though.
No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand.
Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
But they obviously have a chance of promoting their ideas in the preliminary phase. 5b is really not much isk in the first place and like I said everyone who has a semi-popular agenda should be able to raise that much money.
The preliminaries in this CSM election were a big joke, since we just upvoted everyone, just to get more hilarious posts out of obvious joke candidates. If every 'like' would come with a 50m fee people wouldn't just upvote every ****** candidate. A 5b entrance fee is the closest thing we could get to that model. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Polly Oxford wrote:Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.
While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot. I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though. No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand. Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to. And he can he just needs to know how to make isk really well in his one to 2 weeks or buy plexs. But if he earned it in game then he really would be a good CSM candidate. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
693
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Signal11th wrote:Polly Oxford wrote:Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.
While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot. I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though. No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand. Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to. And he can he just needs to know how to make isk really well in his one to 2 weeks or buy plexs. But if he earned it in game then he really would be a good CSM candidate.
??? I hope you are trolling? God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
CliveWarren wrote:Great idea, Frying Doom!
...wait, what do you mean you didn't actually want nothing but powerbloc candidates? I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.
The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Signal11th wrote:Polly Oxford wrote:Also about paying ISK for participating in the CSM election: I actually think that's not a bad idea. Joke candidates won't run and people that actually have a chance of winning should have no problem getting donations from their constituents.
While richer players may have an advantage, it's definitely a better system than just letting everyone with over 100 likes on the ballot. I would suggest 5b as a reasonable amount though. No basically for the reason that everyone should be able to stand, this way you are just inviting the more well off in real life or in EVE to be the only ones able to stand. Even if a new guy with only 1mil isk and 2 weeks playing experience wants to stand he should be able to. And he can he just needs to know how to make isk really well in his one to 2 weeks or buy plexs. But if he earned it in game then he really would be a good CSM candidate. ??? I hope you are trolling? About as much as you. Having newbies run for election would just fill it up and make it even more gameable than it is now. What do we do if for example Test wanted to run 100 of their newbie members for the CSM it would shut down the elections as they can get the 100 likes each that they need right now. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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CliveWarren
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
120
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.
The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success.
It's not a matter of having 2 billion, it's a matter of being able to spare 2 billion just to become a candidate.
This is a volunteer position at the end of the day. Having players pay to become that is just cynical and wrong. There's other ways you can reduce joke/no-hope candidates without doing this. |
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
CliveWarren wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.
The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success. It's not a matter of having 2 billion, it's a matter of being able to spare 2 billion just to become a candidate. This is a volunteer position at the end of the day. Having players pay to become that is just cynical and wrong. There's other ways you can reduce joke/no-hope candidates without doing this. Such as? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Signal11th
Against ALL Anomalies
693
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:CliveWarren wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.
The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success. It's not a matter of having 2 billion, it's a matter of being able to spare 2 billion just to become a candidate. This is a volunteer position at the end of the day. Having players pay to become that is just cynical and wrong. There's other ways you can reduce joke/no-hope candidates without doing this. Such as?
voting????
Please don't take offence FD but have you supplanted the original Frying with someone else or has he sold you this toon??? God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
CliveWarren
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
121
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Such as?
Working to create a primary system would be a start. STV-ish systems would go a long way with minimizing the impact of no-hoper candidates as well.
Anything is better than charging volunteers for the right to be able to volunteer though. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Frying Doom wrote:CliveWarren wrote:Frying Doom wrote:I would be worried about having people on the CSM that could not get a mere 2 Billion is. I prefer 2 Billion if preference to 5 billion as it is a hurdle but still a small one but it will limit the number of joke candidates.
The CSM members are supposed to be people who know how the game works over all or in a specific area but as they all require isk to function, I believe isk is a reasonable measure of success. It's not a matter of having 2 billion, it's a matter of being able to spare 2 billion just to become a candidate. This is a volunteer position at the end of the day. Having players pay to become that is just cynical and wrong. There's other ways you can reduce joke/no-hope candidates without doing this. Such as? voting???? Please don't take offence FD but have you supplanted the original Frying with someone else or has he sold you this toon??? No still the same me a lot more tired but still me
I really was am not sure why you would think this is not me as I said I am tired but could you clarify? not enough paranoid rants maybe? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
CliveWarren wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Such as? Working to create a primary system would be a start. STV-ish systems would go a long way with minimizing the impact of no-hoper candidates as well. Anything is better than charging volunteers for the right to be able to volunteer though. But don't primaries generally mean you vote twice? We can barely get people to vote once. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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CliveWarren
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
123
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:But don't primaries generally mean you vote twice? We can barely get people to vote once.
That's why I said you play with the idea. It's also why I said literally ANY idea, including leaving things as-is, is significantly better than charging volunteers for the right to volunteer.
You're good at recognizing problems - you just need to work on coming up with solutions that aren't straight out of Crazy Town |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
839
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
CliveWarren wrote:Frying Doom wrote:But don't primaries generally mean you vote twice? We can barely get people to vote once. That's why I said you play with the idea. It's also why I said literally ANY idea, including leaving things as-is, is significantly better than charging volunteers for the right to volunteer. You're good at recognizing problems - you just need to work on coming up with solutions that aren't straight out of Crazy Town Crazy town is a nice place to live.
But yes a lot of my ideas are off the wall and even though my solutions generally stink they do get people talking about the problem.
I would rather be that crazy old Nut that gets people talking than someone with good ideas that gets drowned out in the static produced by these forums.
I know very well that their are a lot of people out there that can come up with better solutions than I can, if only they would talk but It normally takes people 40 pages of arguing with Null sec blocking groups before anything can really be talked about. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4579
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Posted - 2012.09.12 09:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: I would rather be that crazy old Nut that gets people talking than someone with good ideas that gets drowned out in the static produced by these forums.
You are that static.
Look, this is pretty simple. When you come up with your "good" ideas, pretend that you are someone who doesn't think you're all that great and see if you can come up with any way to object to said "good" idea. If you can come up with 3 or more objections in less than 2 minutes, then a good rule of thumb is to simply not post it. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
846
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Posted - 2012.09.12 10:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote: I would rather be that crazy old Nut that gets people talking than someone with good ideas that gets drowned out in the static produced by these forums.
You are that static. Look, this is pretty simple. When you come up with your "good" ideas, pretend that you are someone who doesn't think you're all that great and see if you can come up with any way to object to said "good" idea. If you can come up with 3 or more objections in less than 2 minutes, then a good rule of thumb is to simply not post it. It is easy to come up with 3 objections in less than two minutes for any idea. Maybe you need to follow your own wisdom. Also I actually only ever stated posting a lot when I released that any idea on this forum that is something one of the larger blocs do not want it is automatically spammed to death. I have seen more accomplished to my aims in the meta game by being static than I have seen by those that are weak and timid. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4584
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote: I would rather be that crazy old Nut that gets people talking than someone with good ideas that gets drowned out in the static produced by these forums.
You are that static. Look, this is pretty simple. When you come up with your "good" ideas, pretend that you are someone who doesn't think you're all that great and see if you can come up with any way to object to said "good" idea. If you can come up with 3 or more objections in less than 2 minutes, then a good rule of thumb is to simply not post it. It is easy to come up with 3 objections in less than two minutes for any idea...
This has been true for all of your ideas, certainly.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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