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Mograph
Caldari
Conspiracy Theorists
M-A-L-E-V-O-L-E-N-C-E
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Posted - 2011.06.06 23:49:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mograph on 06/06/2011 23:59:53
Urrm this is a little strange. theres a huge difference in training times for tech 2 Guns compared with tech 2 missiles.
If you want to learn to use, i dunno t2 large artilery.
I need to get my specialization skills for the smaller t2 guns up to level 4
if I want to use t2 Cruise I don't have to train any specialization skills until I reach cruise missiles 5.
heres a picture which explains it a bit more Linky
I know I looked at a gun and a missile, but the missiles skills are identical to the launcher
Anyone else think that they need to change this?
Not sure which way it should be changed - should Missiles need more skills, or guns need less? But I think they should be similar training times. (Yeah I cant use t2 arties yet so maybe my view is slightly biased towards make it take less time)
and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.07 00:05:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mograph
Not sure which way it should be changed - should Missiles need more skills, or guns need less? But I think they should be similar training times.
Not this **** again.
The missile skill tree is considerably longer than a single turret tree plus it lacks the transferable turret support skills. It takes a lot longer to gain all T2 missiles than it does for getting all T2 lasers, with good support skills in both cases.
In exchange for this longer skill tree, the missile user has the option of entering the tree at different points. A classic case of "different but balanced".
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Mograph
Caldari
Conspiracy Theorists
M-A-L-E-V-O-L-E-N-C-E
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Posted - 2011.06.07 00:18:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Mograph
Not sure which way it should be changed - should Missiles need more skills, or guns need less? But I think they should be similar training times.
Not this **** again.
The missile skill tree is considerably longer than a single turret tree plus it lacks the transferable turret support skills. It takes a lot longer to gain all T2 missiles than it does for getting all T2 lasers, with good support skills in both cases.
In exchange for this longer skill tree, the missile user has the option of entering the tree at different points. A classic case of "different but balanced".
what if I dont want ALL t2 lazors, I just want t2 Large lazors, and then just t2 medium hybrids, and just t2 small projectile?
That should take the same time as getting t2 light heavy and cruise missiles? but it wont becuase for the lare t2 lazors I gotta train and extra 3 level 5 skills.
Thats what i'm getting at more than the rest of it. it should still be balanced but in a more consistant manner.
and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing. |
Tyme Xandr
Gallente
Stones Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.07 01:13:00 -
[4]
But when you train to your 'lazors' you can use both pulse and beam variety. Whereas for missiles you need to train Cruise missiles to 5 - then if you want to use the short ranged high DPS ones (of BS variety) you would have to train Torpedoes to 5 as well.
It works out in the end.
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Mograph
Caldari
Conspiracy Theorists
M-A-L-E-V-O-L-E-N-C-E
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Posted - 2011.06.07 01:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tyme Xandr
But when you train to your 'lazors' you can use both pulse and beam variety. Whereas for missiles you need to train Cruise missiles to 5 - then if you want to use the short ranged high DPS ones (of BS variety) you would have to train Torpedoes to 5 as well.
It works out in the end.
Ahaha Didnt really think of that, OK
and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing. |
Mocam
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Posted - 2011.06.07 10:59:00 -
[6]
Missile skills are more comparable to drone skills than gun skills - in theory anyway.
You don't need to train drones up like guns either but they have limits of their own.
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Caldari Meatbag
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Posted - 2011.06.07 11:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tyme Xandr
But when you train to your 'lazors' you can use both pulse and beam variety. Whereas for missiles you need to train Cruise missiles to 5 - then if you want to use the short ranged high DPS ones (of BS variety) you would have to train Torpedoes to 5 as well.
It works out in the end.
for large pulses you need large laser 5, med laser 5, sml laser 5, sml pulse spec 4, med pulse spec 4, large pulse spec
to then use T2 beams you need to redo all the spec skills again...
you also must have some different gunnery support skills to lvl 5...
so no it's not balanced in the slightest.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.07 12:07:00 -
[8]
no need for a change.
Being able to enter the skill tree at different points is the bright side of missiles. However, they have downsides too.
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Neuge
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Posted - 2011.06.07 13:31:00 -
[9]
Figuratively speaking, nail your lips together, please.
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Tyme Xandr
Gallente
Stones Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.06.07 16:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tyme Xandr on 07/06/2011 16:25:00
With a stock character (stock attributes) it would take the following times:
T2 1400 Arties: 79 Days, 12 hours
T2 Cruise Launchers: 36 Days, 12 Hours
But from 1400 Arties to 800 Autos it would take only 20 Days, 6 Hours
But from Cruise to Torp launchers it would take 23 Days, 18 hours
So there is a lapse in time. However, a missile guy cant use T2 HL or HAMs by training directly up to Cruise or Torp. We train everything seperately. Whereas you can use T2 Small/.Med/Large variety of your weapons. You have some spec skills to do for each, but we have spec skills to do to use T2 weapons ourselves as well.
If anything it seems this was made to help out other races who specialize in Turrets but have some ships that use missile launchers (Amarr and Minmatar have some decent missile using ships).
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.06.07 19:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tyme Xandr
If anything it seems this was made to help out other races who specialize in Turrets but have some ships that use missile launchers (Amarr and Minmatar have some decent missile using ships).
Exactly. Missile specialists need to go through the whole lengthy missile skill tree to train all the missile skills, but turret specialists can quickly train a missile skill of their choice to be able to fly a specific ship (e.g. bomber). So whining that turret users somehow get the short end of the stick is absurd.
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Havak Kouvo
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Posted - 2011.06.09 11:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag
Originally by: Tyme Xandr
But when you train to your 'lazors' you can use both pulse and beam variety. Whereas for missiles you need to train Cruise missiles to 5 - then if you want to use the short ranged high DPS ones (of BS variety) you would have to train Torpedoes to 5 as well.
It works out in the end.
for large pulses you need large laser 5, med laser 5, sml laser 5, sml pulse spec 4, med pulse spec 4, large pulse spec
to then use T2 beams you need to redo all the spec skills again...
you also must have some different gunnery support skills to lvl 5...
so no it's not balanced in the slightest.
The bulk of the training time is in training up the core laser skills, training sml beam to level 4 and med pulse level 4 is pretty short.
With guns you can get both long and short range weapons at pretty much the same time because they share a lot of skills, missiles have to train each one separately with less overlap.
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Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
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Posted - 2011.06.09 12:39:00 -
[13]
The good stuff with missiles is that you don't have to train them all at T2 lvl to get the one you want.
Try to train T2 large rails and...**** you can't without small T2 lvl med T2 lvl (4 for both) while you can train cruise missiles and torpedoes for your BS without train all others to T2 level, making easier to jump to missile bs's than large guns bs's.
The support skills for missiles is pretty balanced with support skills in gunnery.
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