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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.06.12 15:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
Every time the subject of Intaki independence comes up, most Fderalists seem to ignore a very basic truth.
....there will always be Intaki who wish to be seperate from the Federation.
You got one thing right. They blame Federation for interfering too much, they blame Federation for not helping Intaki enough. Nothing the Federation does or does not do will ever change their minds.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.12 16:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Senn Typhos Where I'm from, people like you get spare holes in their skulls when they talk too much and can't back it up.
I've never seen a single member of your two-bit corporation out of a station, so don't give me that line, you posturing, worthless coward. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.12 16:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk As long as the Federation continues to ignore their responsibilites to the people of Intaki, the more possible it is that the Intaki might chose a different form of government.
This implies a complete untruth: that the Federation is ignoring their responsibilities to the people of Intaki. It is not. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.06.12 18:20:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Senn Typhos Where I'm from, people like you get spare holes in their skulls when they talk too much and can't back it up.
I've never seen a single member of your two-bit corporation out of a station, so don't give me that line, you posturing, worthless coward.
And I've never had to publicly apologize for starting a war I couldn't finish. So sit down, shut up, and let the adults talk.
Next topic.
To put it simply, for those still paying attention; if the State's interference with Intaki is morally reprehensible, why does the Federation continue its own interference? To call one thief evil, and then steal the thing he was after, seems like strange foreign policy to me. If it comes down to the Federation "owning" Intaki legally, then again, why not recognize a sovereign Intaki, as the assembly wishes?
Keeping a leash on an animal and calling it wild; doesn't really work out in the long run.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.12 18:31:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 12/06/2011 18:33:46
Originally by: Senn Typhos And I've never had to publicly apologize for starting a war I couldn't finish. So sit down, shut up, and let the adults talk.
That's because as far as I can tell you never have the spine to get yourself involved in them.
Now shut up and let the adults talk.
I'd address your other points (like this ridiculous notion that the Federation are "interfering" in the affairs of a sovereign member) but they're so divorced from reality they don't really deserve the credibility refuting them would provide. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.06.12 21:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 12/06/2011 18:33:46
Originally by: Senn Typhos And I've never had to publicly apologize for starting a war I couldn't finish. So sit down, shut up, and let the adults talk.
That's because as far as I can tell you never have the spine to get yourself involved in them.
Now shut up and let the adults talk.
I'd address your other points (like this ridiculous notion that the Federation are "interfering" in the affairs of a sovereign member) but they're so divorced from reality they don't really deserve the credibility refuting them would provide.
"As far as you can tell," means so little in the universe. If you can't answer the question, then don't talk. But don't stand there like you've accomplished something deserving of your special snowflake attitude.
If you're so desperate to impress me, you'd better grow a pair and get squared away, ricky-damn-tick, because right now all I hear is a whiny kid who never learned his place.
So what'll it be. Answer the question and talk like a man, or prove to the cluster once again that you can't finish your own business.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Senn Typhos "As far as you can tell," means so little in the universe.
Clearly a little more than what you can tell, though. What you can tell would probably barely fill a Quafe can.
Originally by: Senn Typhos If you're so desperate to impress me
Impress you? I don't even have the empathy neccessary to pity you.
Originally by: Senn Typhos you'd better grow a pair and get squared away, ricky-damn-tick, because right now all I hear is a whiny kid who never learned his place.
My place is still a damn sight above you, partner.
Originally by: Senn Typhos Answer the question BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
You didn't even ask a question, you ****ing imbecile. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Impress you? I don't even have the empathy neccessary to pity you.
Then why are you still talking? You could have either taken it upon yourself to offer serious debate against my earlier question - which apparently you've entirely forgotten - or better yet, shut up and act like a pilot worth a pod.
Smart money says you'll respond to this, too. If Federation parents gave their children the back of their hand when they needed it, you wouldn't be so deprived for attention.
I've given you too many chances already to keep quiet and show your discipline. Either way, no one seems willing to provide discourse, and you're a waste of my time. I'm finished with you.
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Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk As long as the Federation continues to ignore their responsibilites to the people of Intaki, the more possible it is that the Intaki might chose a different form of government.
This implies a complete untruth: that the Federation is ignoring their responsibilities to the people of Intaki. It is not.
As an objective outsider, it cetainly appears as if it is.
And I think there are more than a few Intaki who might agree.
Look at your last several posts, instead of continuing the discussion on the Intaki issue, you've veered off into an argument. This to me, is exactly what the Federation does on a larger scale. It begins to address the issues, then sees something shiney and looses all it's focus.
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Varlerian Ti'kihli
Caldari Dyishi Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Varlerian Ti''kihli on 13/06/2011 04:33:51 Edited by: Varlerian Ti''kihli on 13/06/2011 04:29:14 Now, now...no need to diverge this discussion into senseless rantings. If you two really have such an immense disliking for each other I'm sure you can take it elsewhere...say the dark side of a remote moon?
On any note, you certainly have an interesting analysis of the situation there, General. I would like to ask a serious question, though.
If the Intaki people operate under a democracy, meaning that the people elect representatives who express the views of the majority, and the Intaki Assembly is the government and therefore represent the majority of the Intaki people...then wouldn't that mean that a majority of the Intaki people are unsatisfied with the Federation and wish to form their own independent state? I'll rely on Mr. Typhos' reference to the Intaki denial of the Federation fleet for this, and many other similar instances too numerous to point out. Please correct me if I'm wrong, however, as I'm no expert in Federal politics.
♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Varlerian Ti'kihli Surkousa Dyishi Enterprises, CEO |
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Simca Develon
Gallente Eleutherian Guard
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
As an objective outsider, it cetainly appears as if it is.
The key word there is outsider. I'm not entirely sure of the objective part.
I will concede that you do raise some points that are valid about the Intaki seperation movement, but I still find it rather ironic that you would be advocating the freedom of anyone while you have slaves. I think that your reasons for supporting this movement lie more with weakening the Federation rather than any actual feelings you may have for the Intaki people themselves.
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Simon Coal
Gallente Federal Robotics
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Posted - 2011.06.13 06:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Varlerian Ti'kihli
If the Intaki people operate under a democracy, meaning that the people elect representatives who express the views of the majority, and the Intaki Assembly is the government and therefore represent the majority of the Intaki people...then wouldn't that mean that a majority of the Intaki people are unsatisfied with the Federation and wish to form their own independent state? I'll rely on Mr. Typhos' reference to the Intaki denial of the Federation fleet for this, and many other similar instances too numerous to point out. Please correct me if I'm wrong, however, as I'm no expert in Federal politics.
The Assembly operates democratically. The denial of the Federation fleet into Intaki Prime is not a sign of dissatisfaction; it's an act allowed by the Federation, an act that is, in fact, enshrined in the Federal Charter. Reasons to keep the fleet out include: to prevent conflict with the Ishukone vessels in the area, to prevent conflict with the Mordu's Legion vessels in the area, as a sign of trust to the Ishukone and Legion ships, and to avoid provoking a Caldari military response. Retaining Ishukone assets in the system prevents the system from being re-auctioned should it fall into State hands again. Maintaining ties to the Caldari mega most interested in ending this conflict is of obvious value, both to the Intaki and the Federation as a whole.
At no point do the actions of the Assembly express a desire to secede. The Assembly's historical and present actions indicate a stance of being staunchly a part of the Federation, but a part that does not wish to be too tied to the bureaucracy and central organization that some parts of the Federation wish to extend. Secession remains a minority position. ---- I do not speak for Federal Robotics. |
Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Vanguard Imperium
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Posted - 2011.06.13 06:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Simca Develon
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
As an objective outsider, it cetainly appears as if it is.
The key word there is outsider. I'm not entirely sure of the objective part.
I will concede that you do raise some points that are valid about the Intaki seperation movement, but I still find it rather ironic that you would be advocating the freedom of anyone while you have slaves. I think that your reasons for supporting this movement lie more with weakening the Federation rather than any actual feelings you may have for the Intaki people themselves.
Thank you again, Ms. Develon.
I could point out that I've been advocating the seperation of Intaki, not the freedom of Intaki. But that would be horribly sterotypical on my part.
That you portay the issue as Intaki "freedom" (as opposed to "seceding from" or "leaving" the Federation) speaks volumes on the situation.
As I've said, my people seceded from the Empire a few centuries ago. So when I see a culture that is looking to secede from it's parent government, I grow curious to see if it's a case of history repeating itself in some abstract fashion.
Now I can't belive how you would think I would be interested in seeing a weakening of the Federation. Oh wait...you're right. I would. But who knows, maybe the Federation would end up being stronger without having to deal with the Intaki issue?
New Tales of the Dark Amarr |
Simca Develon
Gallente Eleutherian Guard
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Posted - 2011.06.13 06:45:00 -
[44]
You're welcome Mr. Mokk.
I believe the word you used was independence; which, at least to me, is interchangeable with the word freedom in this context. You are, of course, free to disagree on that issue since as you said "this forum is based on the Federalist democratic belief in 'Freedom of Speach' and 'Equality.'"
------------ Simca Develon Officer 3rd Class, Eleutherian Guard |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 15:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Senn Typhos Then why are you still talking?
Why are you? Neither you nor the person behind you has ever contributed anything to this forum.
Originally by: Senn Typhos You could have either taken it upon yourself to offer serious debate against my earlier question
You did not ask a ****ing question, you ****ing moron.
Originally by: Senn Typhos I've given you too many chances already to keep quiet and show your discipline.
You act as if you're in any way entitled to respect or self-discipline. You are a liar, a pretender and a coward, just like your entire corporation. I do declare that an empty Thorax warped in, and out of it stepped Senn mother****ing Typhos. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Chatti
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Senn Typhos You could have either taken it upon yourself to offer serious debate against my earlier question
You did not ask a ****ing question, you ****ing moron.
dude you're gonna pop a blood vessel.
and he kinda did ask a question. you've even referred to it already you fool. you just didn't answer it.
Originally by: Senn Typhos Did any of the students happen to mention the assembly's view on the Federation's interference with Intaki affairs?
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 13/06/2011 16:20:41 The question is based on false premises, and is invalid. I don't consider it a question if answering it in any way implies the validity of a false premise. More like a statement that happens to end in a question mark. It's like me asking if you if you still beat your girlfriend.
By the way, do you still beat your girlfriend? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:25:00 -
[48]
Would you care to comment on the current fighting between Star Fraction and Moira corporation Andreus?
Join the Revolution!
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:30:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 13/06/2011 16:31:21 Not... really, and not in this thread, where it's entirely irrelevant?
Are you really that starved for attention that you have to ask me to come and comment on your lover's tiff with Jules? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Chatti
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:34:00 -
[50]
lol yeah I see where you're going with this.
sooo the Intaki are the girlfriend and the Federation is the one one beating it in your analogy right?
anyway does it need to be so false a premise? if you're saying there's absolutely no interference at all it makes me wonder what they actually do in Villore.
Aren't you implying the Senate is kinda redundant what with them not having any involvement at all.
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Chatti sooo the Intaki are the girlfriend and the Federation is the one one beating it in your analogy right?
And another analogy sails waaaaaaay over someone's head on the IGS.
Originally by: Chatti anyway does it need to be so false a premise? if you're saying there's absolutely no interference at all it makes me wonder what they actually do in Villore.
Aren't you implying the Senate is kinda redundant what with them not having any involvement at all.
>my face when he doesn't understand that interference and involvement are not the same thing ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:47:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Not... really, and not in this thread, where it's entirely irrelevant?
It involves Placid and the vicinity of Intaki. I just wondered if you'd like to revist your words a few weeks on and see if matters had proceeded to your expectations.
Join the Revolution!
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Chatti
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
Originally by: Chatti sooo the Intaki are the girlfriend and the Federation is the one one beating it in your analogy right?
And another analogy sails waaaaaaay over someone's head on the IGS.
oh I understood it lol. it's not exactly a new trick question now is it? damning yourself which ever way you answer.
Originally by: Chatti anyway does it need to be so false a premise? if you're saying there's absolutely no interference at all it makes me wonder what they actually do in Villore.
Aren't you implying the Senate is kinda redundant what with them not having any involvement at all.
>my face when he doesn't understand that interference and involvement are not the same thing
I guess their point is one persons involvement is anothers interference. kinda like all those ninja salvagers who like to help missioners loot their wrecks by getting involved
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 16:53:00 -
[54]
I haven't seen a single Moira pilot or a single Star Fraction pilot in Intaki in the past two weeks, and I've been there every day. Certainly I might have missed them, but your war obviously isn't affecting Intaki's economy, safety or the security of the Federation's sovereignty (although it's not like SF have the capacity to affect change to those anyway). Besides, I got bored the moment I realised Verone isn't taking you the least bit seriously. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris I haven't seen a single Moira pilot or a single Star Fraction pilot in Intaki in the past two weeks, and I've been there every day. Certainly I might have missed them, but your war obviously isn't affecting Intaki's economy, safety or the security of the Federation's sovereignty (although it's not like SF have the capacity to affect change to those anyway). Besides, I got bored the moment I realised Verone isn't taking you the least bit seriously.
Well he had to put a brave face on his investments exploding under our torpedoes really :)
Join the Revolution!
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Well he had to put a brave face on his investments exploding under our torpedoes really :)
How do you... ever manage to pull off the impression that you have the faintest clue what you're talking about, when you say stupid things like this? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:18:00 -
[57]
Achieving things in space dear Andreus. You should try it one day. Its surprisingly liberating you know.
Join the Revolution!
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Achieving things in space dear Andreus. You should try it one day. Its surprisingly liberating you know.
This line doesn't get any more relevant or accurate if you repeat it. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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