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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:12:00 -
[1]
See what CCP t0rfifrans and CCP Flying Scotsman have to say about Incarna in their latest Video Dev Blog.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us |
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:18:00 -
[2]
Goood stuff. More video Dev Blogs please! ~Gnosis~ |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:20:00 -
[3]
Awesome!
/c
Secure 3rd party service | in-game 'Holy Veldspar' Now /w voice |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: J Kunjeh Goood stuff. More video Dev Blogs please!
we have a lot more planned :)
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Myxx
Distructive Innovations
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Posted - 2011.06.10 17:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Myxx on 10/06/2011 17:56:19 Edited by: Myxx on 10/06/2011 17:54:00 i want to customise what shows on the screen for me. i want to be able to display mails or conversations im having with people on it. i want to be able to interface with the market via the screens, etc.
right now, its a large advert. let me do useful crap with it.
ie: i very much don't care for guristas epic arcs, or whatnot. let me show specific parts of the market that i want to see. let me switch the corp or PI screen out for a mail interface or something.
another example: let me switch the pi screen out for a galactic/onstellation/regional/system map. let me use it to plan routes, ie dotlan type interface.
integrate my contract interface with it. let me manage my contracts alongside the market.
let me switch what shows where on what screen, preferably as easily as possible. --
Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
Originally by: Tom Gerard
Then again... I am a moron.
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Kasidis
Gallente Nexus.6
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:17:00 -
[6]
Yes a little 3D floating map of the galaxy would be very cool. You could plans routes look over sov and sec status. The current map isn't the most user friendly thing. Regardless, I am looking forward to Incarna
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Raid''En on 10/06/2011 18:22:01 they added something new from what we already know ? cause when both speaking and listener are not on their first language it's not really easy to understand oral... they said that incarna is the biggest new thing they added to eve this the launch they want to put only CQ cause they need to be cautious ... it was alreay said tons of times...
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:22:00 -
[8]
I'm curious as to the statements regarding QA, not being able to predict what will happen, and being incremental. This seems rather contradictory. Removing the docked view, and having CQ or a black loading screen with the neocon is anything other than incremental.
Is the legacy of the docked view really such a big branch that it can not be included for at least one iteration?
The Real Space Initiative - V7
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Sino Sarn
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:44:00 -
[9]
Nerf supers, already.
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Shiganaru
C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Shiganaru on 10/06/2011 18:53:31
Originally by: Adunh Slavy I'm curious as to the statements regarding QA, not being able to predict what will happen, and being incremental. This seems rather contradictory. Removing the docked view, and having CQ or a black loading screen with the neocon is anything other than incremental.
Is the legacy of the docked view really such a big branch that it can not be included for at least one iteration?
It probably has to do with the way the old docked view was rendered. In order to render CQ in the same space, they had to change the type of surface it was being rendered to.
The point they are making with QA is that although the server is stable with 1k people working with CQ, they don't know how it is going to behave with 50k.
(CCP feel free to correct me, but...)
The big problem with that is the exponential increase in the amount of data the servers are going to need to handle with a first-person view.
While in space, the client-server only exchange information when the state of the current "grid" changes, such as someone entering grid, or setting their ship to orbit an object. The simulation engine running on both the client and the server keeps everything else looking pretty and synchronized.
While in-station, information such as the exact position of the player, which direction their head is turned (camera), their animation state, etc. will all have to be exchanged with the client/server and every other client that can see your avatar.
So, they'll do this one step at a time, starting with just you in the Captains Quarters, ending with a full blown concourse with bars, shop, etc.
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Illadelph Justice
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.06.10 18:52:00 -
[11]
I agree with the above sperg poster. Put in a map with a dotlan style interface or something as easy to read and plan with and I might actually use it. That said it should be available all the time so you know what to do ---
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.10 19:31:00 -
[12]
Ok, Having watched your VDB (video dev blog), I have a few comments, and a few questions...
First up, I would like to say that I have been looking forward to Incarna for some time and am very excited about the prospect of being able to get out of my pod and walk around stations... This is very cool.
However I am not thrilled (to put it mildly) about being forced to do so, every time I dock. This is massively immersion breaking, in a feature that is, as you say, all about immersion.
You talk about how hard a technical challenge adding Incarna (CQ) is, and how its almost guaranteed to go wrong in some way on hitting TQ...
I understand this, and I will not be joining in the inevitable emoquitragearg threads that will pop up after release to tell you you should have done more QA before releasing, blah blah blah....
However I will be continuing to ask, Why it is that, on a feature that is so hard to implement, that has such a big chance of going wrong... Why you had to make it compulsory on docking?
'If' it is likely to be buggy and such after release, why not implement it as you have always previously demonstrated it, as an option you have from the old/current hanger view after undocking?
That way if it doesn't work, it shouldn't (or be much less likely to) break people's ability to play the rest of the game as normal, while also at the same time being much more backstory friendly and immersion compliant.
Also if as in the backstory our characters are deeply paranoid about leaving the pod, due to fear of assassination, do they leave their pods on the end of a gantry in full view of the rest of the hanger, with no shower, towel soft furnishing or privacy...
Instead of the nice sealed private room with creature comforts as seen in the excellent fanfest trailer from last year?
If the answer is the room would have taken too long to get right for this launch... That's ok, but you could have, like the rest of the station, just put it behind a door that wont open yet till you get it done...
Those of us that understand the challenge you're facing are prepared to wait... And those that aren't wont be placated by anything so don't worry.
The screens are a nice idea... But are unlikely be considered even slightly useful by vets until they have a lot more features AND most importantly the UI works in the environment so that rather than the screen being a big shiny button that opens windows that cover up all the shiny buttons forcing you to close/minimise the window to press any more shiny buttons, it just works like a screen should and actually shows you the information there on the wall.
I understand that this might not be possible in the first build, but you have to understand that Incarna and CQ is almost useless and unusable until the UI does work like this... (same applies for ship fitting and such)
I also believe that by tying incarna to the hanger, (in that CQ now doubles as new shiny Incarna AND replacement for old hanger) you have limited your design/feature options in a detrimental manner. First because in CQ/Incarna you have both the old UI and the NEW 3d UI (which use up more resources together than either separately) if at any time you break either both get affected.
Second and more fundamentally, as expressed in this thread... By forcing the new incarna to have the same functionality as the old hanger you are restricting what can be done in incarna so it does not affect the performance of those just trying to use it like the old hanger... Which is much more work than actually keeping the old hanger which is 100% successful at being the old hanger...
And making incarna separate...
So you can really make us feel the separation from our Pods, like we are supposed to according to the backstory.
If you have read all these arguments before, from me and others, then I apologise but ....
See next Post ;-) __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:14:00 -
[13]
From previous post...
If you have read all these arguments before, from me and others, then I apologise but ....
I/we have no idea whether you have read any of our feedback... Because we have hardly any, and no substantive response from you at all, for getting on for a week (if not more) on a feature coming out in less than a fortnight, and which many have serious concerns about... and unlike dust affects all of us now not some of us in 12 months time.
In the 'Devs Answer Your Every Question' thread, I have thus far had one of my questions answered. The question was about feedback, specifically relating to the test server...
Here is the question [post 356 on P12], and here is the answer [Post 42 on P2]....
Basically I was asking that when testing features on the test server more of a dialogue exist between you [CCP] and us [the testers] for our mutual benefit. The idea being that if we had a better idea of what changes were on the test server and what issues you already knew about we could give you better and more targeted feedback... And we don't get angry and frustrated giving feedback to a brick wall...
Unless you say something, we have no idea if our feedback is helpful, well received (or not), If any of our suggestions are being considered, if they are not technically possible, if they are possible but you don't like them from an aesthetic stand point... ect...
In you're response you agreed that as you create threads specifically asking for feedback on particular topics and for us to help find bugs on the test servers, you probably could do better in communicating with us, (for exact question/response see links above)
However we have yet to see any improvement...
Now while more blogs and VDB's are great, they are by necessity too far apart to be of use here... So I propose this...
You should aim to post feedback on our feedback at least once a week and on every new build on SiSi/Duality as applicable... This should include what is being changed in the latest build,
what you most want testing data on, and what form it would most usefully take, some response to any major areas of feedback/commonly asked questions [e.g. when testing the NCC the list of people requesting the chars don't move when being sculpted, an issue that still irritates to this day, got too large to count... we have yet to have feedback on this],
and an UP-TO-DATE known bugs list....
Also upfront info, possibly in devblog form detailing what isn't YET in the build but will be later to reduce the 'why is this not in yet' posts
In addition I would recommend that new features under test/new builds should get new stickied threads for posting feedback in the test server feedback area. Both dev response thread (locked for devs only) and our feedback thread
These threads will superceed old threads which will get locked and unstickied as new ones open.
This will mean that as people get familiar with how the system works they will know exactly where to find the latest info on the current build, and no thread should get sooo long its impossible to find stuff in them, making looking through them easier for us and you.
And most of all we get a nice warm fuzzy feeling of being talked to, and listened to, which hopefully reduces the name calling and general animosity that seems to erupt so often. While making us more eager testers and guinea pigs, thus making eve better for everyone.
The forums in general might get a little nice place to live as some of the thread spam disappears as people learn where the best place to post on these issues is (I know it will only be slight but worthwhile I think)
For this coming patch the most urgent feedback I would like (and I hope here to pick uncontroversial subjects for feedback ;-) )
But in a new post ;-) __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Vegeta
Minmatar Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:15:00 -
[14]
Very impressed by the soundstage of the recording. Feels scarily binaural.
As for what they said... also cool.
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:28:00 -
[15]
Yeah, watched it but 5 minutes later I couldn't remember actually hearing any information, so tried again. 3 seconds in I realize I was hearing the sound of CCP lies, propaganda, and marketing drivel. *yawn*
CCP, if you really had respect for your players, you'd respond to their legitimate concerns and not put your fingers in your ears going "la la la give us all your money la la la." A business that does not respect their customers, does not deserve their customers.
As a side note, CCP, if you really want to appeal to your players, never ever EVER use or allow an employee to use the word "iteration" ever again. Everyone knows that in the CCP's Dictionary of Terms "iteration" means "permanently abandon a feature and throw in a rude gesture at the players just for giggles."
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:31:00 -
[16]
Any insight if they are going to be the other 3 races of captains quarters, or they coming later? ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Lisandra Riraille
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Any insight if they are going to be the other 3 races of captains quarters, or they coming later?
Yes, they said every station will have CQ.
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:37:00 -
[18]
Following from previous post...
For this coming patch this the most urgent feedback I (and hopefully we) would like (and I hope here to pick uncontroversial subjects for feedback ;-) )
The old Hanger view, or the will CQ/Incarna be optional upon docking? If not... why not? baring in mind that most people think this is how you promised to implement it, and given all the strong arguments about immersion and design/stability issues and such?
Can we have the pod in a room like the one in the trailer?
Can we have separate graphics settings for the two totally different environments CQ/Incarna and Hanger/space?
Will the New 3d UI be made so that the new screens and features like fitting and such can be done in the environment rather than in the old UI windows? If so when?
Are you planning to add 3d UI buttons for ship maintenance bays, fuel bays and such for cap ships in CQ?
Will you add functionality to click on your ship in incarna to be able to do things like drag and drop a ship into your hanger, or modules/cargo into cargo bay?
Will we get all 4 races CQ's on launch?
What features are coming out when in the Incarna launch cycle?
Are you adding new turrets and CQ at the same time and if so is that wise?
Will you create a new 'in station' chat channel to replace local while ambulating in station (obviously not an option if we can't use the old hanger and have to decant on every dock)?
Why do lasers have recoil? (Sorry I had to put that one in, I recommend my suggestions from the threadnought but then I would, you did promise to reply to that thread )
Long Gallente male hair... ?
Can we have unlimited fittings back, either local or server, just as long as they are unlimited?
Can the NCC have an option to alter your chars make-up/clothes/hair without creating a new char portrait?
The level of the film graininess... is it how you want and can we have an option to disable/alter it?
Will we have a better waiting message than 'loading' on the Incarna/CQ loading screen... It is kinda immersion breaking... Could we get optional animations here instead?
Can you Actually commit to better communications with those testing/giving feedback on the test server?
Do you now dread my posts and hate my living guts?
There are loads more questions around but you can see those on the forums...
Hoping for a response...
Soden Rah __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Silence 133
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:41:00 -
[19]
Any chance of a subtitled version?
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Adrie Atticus
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:53:00 -
[20]
Fire your sound engineer!
I actually had to listen to the clip twice because for the first run I only concentrated on how someone actually managed to plug in 2 mics to separate channels. It makes the pronounciation actually worse than it is because you have to listen with only one ear and distortion kicks in more easily.
Horrid performance.
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Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.10 20:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Soden Rah
Why it is that, on a feature that is so hard to implement, that has such a big chance of going wrong... Why you had to make it compulsory on docking?
The answer is very simple: CQ is designed to promote the sale of virtual goods. Think of it as a 'shop window'. Now why would CCP not want you to view that shop window at every available opportunity?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Xurr
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Adrie Atticus Fire your sound engineer!
I actually had to listen to the clip twice because for the first run I only concentrated on how someone actually managed to plug in 2 mics to separate channels. It makes the pronounciation actually worse than it is because you have to listen with only one ear and distortion kicks in more easily.
Horrid performance.
I dunno the tech behind the sound but holy crap that was irritating.
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S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:07:00 -
[23]
I'm cross-posting this from a thread in General Discussion. Remove it if you want CCP, but I figured you might actually see it here. Granted, you probably saw it in GD, but you'd rather respond to trolls complaining about Dust than people who have serious concerns about an expansion being released in less than two weeks.
---
Keep the old hanger view (ok maybe improve the graphics for it at some point, but keep the concept the same) where you have full functionality of all services as they exist today.
If you choose to unplug from your pod, then you enter the CQ and you're "off the grid." Chat channels still work, but local chat will become an in-station proximity chat (you only see text written by those near your physical location). You can't access ship fittings, ship hanger, inventory, market, medical, etc unless you use the new UI that is built-in to your CQ. For market and medical facilities, I would recommend adding a new section to the station (for example, a medical wing). Players would go to the medical wing, talk to an NPC or a computer interface, and update their clone.
If you want to undock, you have to walk to your pod and enter it physically (the pod should have its own room so you don't have to get naked at the end of the exposed ramp). None of this magical "Hey, I can cast a spell and magically teleport to the undock screen" bullsh!t.
If you don't want to deal with having to physically manipulate the world around you, and you don't want to have to go to your pod in order to undock, then simply don't leave your ship.
1) It adds immersion for those who want Incarna: having to actually touch the world around you to interact with it is nice. If we have a bunch of shortcuts, then there is no incentive to actually use any of the new UI that you've designed... at all.
2) This would also prevent a lot of frustration for people who don't want to deal with an ambulation simulation: they can stay and ship spin for as long as they please.
3) It makes sense.
CCP, if you want Incarna to be well-received and fun, then man up and give the players what they want; above all, STOP CUTTING CORNERS AND TAKING SHORTCUTS. Make this happen and Incarna will be amazing.
Edit: Another thing to mention to the devs: I've been following threads on Incarna relatively closely, and I feel that someone should point this out to you: The majority of EVE's playerbase wants to see the continuation of the current hanger view as the default when docking. Yes, that of course means the players that don't want to use Incarna at all. However, that also includes the players who want to walk around in Incarna because it makes sense from a lore/common sense standpoint.
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Soden Rah
Why it is that, on a feature that is so hard to implement, that has such a big chance of going wrong... Why you had to make it compulsory on docking?
The answer is very simple: CQ is designed to promote the sale of virtual goods. Think of it as a 'shop window'. Now why would CCP not want you to view that shop window at every available opportunity?
C.
Well I was kinda hoping CCP would answer ;-) but I have heard this before... and I don't buy it.
those that want to change their avatars outfit every 5 mins and are preprepared to pay cash/ISK for it will do so if forced or not... Those that don't (Like me) will only be less likely to do it if CCP try to ram it down our throats...
Anyhow, I would like to have CCP actually answer the question... I am not holding out a lot of hope however.
PS: Being randomly logged out mid typing, having to go back to repost, then being told I can't because I am posting too fast, when the first attempt didn't succeed is Extremely annoying.... I am sure I can't be the only one frustrated by this... __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.10 21:53:00 -
[25]
oh snap : D
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Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:17:00 -
[26]
Not much new.
I still wonder what kind of substance you plan to put into incarna. We have been fed a lot of information about stuff we can see, but very little about what we can do. Incarna can add a lot of submersion, but only if there are things to do. So far all the talk has been about an empty box, not much talk about what it is supposed to contain.
All these popular avatar based MMOs became popular because the avatars do stuff. They didn't become popular just because they had cool looking avatars.
I agree you can do all sorts of cool stuff with incarna, but it doesn't happen automatically.
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Nasim Sunsorrow
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:21:00 -
[27]
you guys have a funny accent.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Adrie Atticus Fire your sound engineer!
I actually had to listen to the clip twice because for the first run I only concentrated on how someone actually managed to plug in 2 mics to separate channels. It makes the pronounciation actually worse than it is because you have to listen with only one ear and distortion kicks in more easily.
Horrid performance.
it wasn't hard to understand at all.
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.10 22:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Adrie Atticus Fire your sound engineer!
I actually had to listen to the clip twice because for the first run I only concentrated on how someone actually managed to plug in 2 mics to separate channels. It makes the pronounciation actually worse than it is because you have to listen with only one ear and distortion kicks in more easily.
Horrid performance.
While I wouldn't say it was that bad, having it that 'stereo' was distracting and unnecessary. For stuff like that where there people are just talking I would definitely prefer/recommend outputting each voice equally on both channels... Mono if you will ;-)
It sounds more professional apart from anything else.
And CCP T0rfifrans has a fantastic accent... leave him alone ;-) __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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boseo
Gallente Azure Horizon
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Adrie Atticus Fire your sound engineer!
I actually had to listen to the clip twice because for the first run I only concentrated on how someone actually managed to plug in 2 mics to separate channels. It makes the pronounciation actually worse than it is because you have to listen with only one ear and distortion kicks in more easily.
Horrid performance.
While I wouldn't say it was that bad, having it that 'stereo' was distracting and unnecessary. For stuff like that where there people are just talking I would definitely prefer/recommend outputting each voice equally on both channels... Mono if you will ;-)
It sounds more professional apart from anything else.
And CCP T0rfifrans has a fantastic accent... leave him alone ;-)
What they have obviously done is record the sound on 2 channels (left and right) and then forgot to double layer the sound in post-production (edit) thus meaning instead of sound in both speakers it is only in one.
luckily they have each persons voice coming out the same speaker as the side of the screen they are on (have seen this get messed up before).
oh and before anyone asks I study/work in film.
On topic:
Not really that much new information if I had to be honest. Would have been nice to have a few questions that have been floating around answered.
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Alexia page
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:39:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xurr
Originally by: Adrie Atticus Fire your sound engineer!
I actually had to listen to the clip twice because for the first run I only concentrated on how someone actually managed to plug in 2 mics to separate channels. It makes the pronounciation actually worse than it is because you have to listen with only one ear and distortion kicks in more easily.
Horrid performance.
I dunno the tech behind the sound but holy crap that was irritating.
Hopefully not the same tech that services the servers.
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Zendorea
Minmatar Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.11 02:22:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Originally by: J Kunjeh Goood stuff. More video Dev Blogs please!
we have a lot more planned :)
We wont them now miss! HAHAHA
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Kasidis
Gallente Nexus.6
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Posted - 2011.06.11 03:24:00 -
[33]
IMO, the new view isn't different from the old hanger view because you still have all the same UI elements that allow you to do stuff quikly. I mean the 3D UI is cool but you don't have to use it. I could do things just as fast on duality as the old hanger view. Just sayin.
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Lisandra Riraille
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2011.06.11 07:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kasidis IMO, the new view isn't different from the old hanger view because you still have all the same UI elements that allow you to do stuff quikly. I mean the 3D UI is cool but you don't have to use it. I could do things just as fast on duality as the old hanger view. Just sayin.
The point isn't necessarily about the speed of doing things. The point is that you wouldn't leave your ship (and thus your pod) just to reequip your ship, or mess with your cargo. That is what ship's crews and station crews exist for. You are supposed to be an almost godlike entity, why would you leave the safety of your pod just for some inane freight moving.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.06.11 10:38:00 -
[35]
Have I missed something ? Was there anything new or something of a particular importance in that blog ?
I saw a bit of empty words without much substance.
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Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.11 14:29:00 -
[36]
Incarna Preview was probably a bit of a misnomer. ;) But video blogs seem like a nice format so I hope you do some more. --
Originally by: CCP Elais
It was a great Frankenstein moment [...] to see the forum [...] come alive.
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Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2011.06.11 14:51:00 -
[37]
Au contraire : Veterans wont really care about a CQ video screen telling them where to go to start running Angel epic arcs etc...
I am slightly disappointed you think after 5+ years playing the game you think I'll care more about some new feature screen telling me this in my CQ than the chronic lack of development of the glaringly bad features of Eve (FW, POS, Sov, Corp tools, Mining etc etc)..
The video format could work well in future though. Always good to see your face as you lie to us.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.11 16:39:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 11/06/2011 16:44:10 Edited by: Tres Farmer on 11/06/2011 16:41:38
Nice format.. like'd the interviews up until this one too. Audio was ok.
Please engage more with the testers in the test-forum. It's exciting to run around a partly new playground with your eyes covered for a while, but as long as the population numbers on Sisi are at least 200 times lower than on TQ it would be more efficient to help us help you find bugs and test new features.
Some days ago CCP RuberBAND showed up in some threads and I thought, cool they finally got it.. but now it's silent again.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Salomei
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Posted - 2011.06.11 16:42:00 -
[39]
Just for fun, can you launch Incarna and then leave WiS as is for a few years? No need to improve it in any way, just forget about it and move on to your next big time sink of a project (planetary flight or something).
Or (serious suggestion) still leave WiS where it stands, but get back to deepening space flight. Feed your malnourished core gameplay (Sov, PvP, FW, even missions) and improve the variety of space flight options (ie. find all those ships no one flies and find a proper niche for them).
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Io Koval
Gallente T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2011.06.11 21:00:00 -
[40]
So they discussed what the Veteran Players wanted...
I guess Newbies don't matter?
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Hyperforce99
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.11 22:22:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 11/06/2011 22:24:55 I would still implore CCP to make Captains Quarters an option. Allow players to switch between the Hangar View and the Captains Quarters. Perhaps even include an ability to dock directly to the captains quarters by adding an additional dock command (dock & Disembark).
Making CQ something we can chose to use is better than forcing it upon us. Especially since you for the longest time have told you fan base that Walking in Station would be an option. Why then now make it mandatory?
I'm sure I will enjoy the CQ, but I simply don't want to use it all the time.
This serves several purposes.
1. By keeping it optional for POST-tutorial players, any bugs that the CQ might introduce to the game will be limited to the CQ.
2. Considering the added loading time and CPU and GPU capacity increase, some people are experiencing large drops in performance when the CQ is loaded. Keeping the CQ an option to chose from would solve this problem.
3. Having to leave your pod ALL the time is immersion breaking, contrary to CCPs goal. I was under the impression POD pilots hated leaving their pods. Why would I leave my pod if all I was doing was switching from my mining ship to my hauler and back.
4. By keeping the hangar view and the captains quarters separate, its possible to create more immersion increasing features like cutscenes when getting in or out of out pods, when exiting cloning facilities after being podded etc.
5. Don't destroy our favorite AFK passtime, Ship Spinning
+. Why is the pod located on the hangar balcony, Its the weirdest place it could have been located at... I was more expecting a more enclosed, safer and private room off the side of the CQ like in the early lighting demo over a year ago. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.06.11 22:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Soden Rah
Why it is that, on a feature that is so hard to implement, that has such a big chance of going wrong... Why you had to make it compulsory on docking?
The answer is very simple: CQ is designed to promote the sale of virtual goods. Think of it as a 'shop window'. Now why would CCP not want you to view that shop window at every available opportunity?
C.
This..........
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Maldranan
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Posted - 2011.06.12 01:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Maldranan on 12/06/2011 01:50:27
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Soden Rah
Why it is that, on a feature that is so hard to implement, that has such a big chance of going wrong... Why you had to make it compulsory on docking?
The answer is very simple: CQ is designed to promote the sale of virtual goods. Think of it as a 'shop window'. Now why would CCP not want you to view that shop window at every available opportunity?
C.
Because they're saying on the one hand that Incarna is all about immersion into the world of New Eden, but forcing you to enter the captains quarters every time you dock breaks immersion. It's strange that they're not giving anything in the way of an official response to this very reasonable question.
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.06.12 02:02:00 -
[44]
Will there be any interactivity between Incarna and Dust from a direct perspective, for example Eve characters hiring Dust characters inside a station and/or planetary enviroment? Also, will, as Incarna develops, stations' enviroments and activities reflect the security of the system within which the station lies? For example, a low sec system or NPC Pirate region system stations have a darker, seedier feel with more nefarious activites than a station lying within high sec systems?
Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur |
Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.06.12 02:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Soden Rah Extraordinary amazing comments, suggestions and questions CCP should be reading and working towards addressing if they care about EVE, their customers or the future.
By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself CCP you ignore this man's posts at your own peril.
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CCP Manifest
C C P
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Posted - 2011.06.12 13:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: CCP Manifest on 12/06/2011 13:13:03
Originally by: Soden Rah SOME MORE QUESTIONS, BOLDED BELOW
*I came to this thread being directed from another one by Soden here.
If it is going to be so buggy, why....? You know we aren't planning on releasing anything buggy, right? Just because it's complicated doesn't mean that it will be bug-riddled. So far our internal tests point towards it as being fine and having no appreciable technical difference from the current way of doing things--with the exception of multiple accounts on the same machine. More on that later..
Also if as in the backstory our characters are deeply paranoid about leaving the pod, due to fear of assassination, do they leave their pods on the end of a gantry in full view of the rest of the hanger, with no shower, towel soft furnishing or privacy...
My understanding of the backstory (I haven't read ALL the chronicles) is that capsuleers are for the most part, existent in a more exclusive part of the station from the regular Joe. Stations are also relatively safe, being as they have "airport-like" security, so fear of assassination should be at a minimal.
Instead of the nice sealed private room with creature comforts as seen in the excellent fanfest trailer from last year? One step at a time!
That's ok, but you could have, like the rest of the station, just put it behind a door that wont open yet till you get it done... That's where it is right now...
I understand that this might not be possible in the first build, but you have to understand that Incarna and CQ is almost useless and unusable until the UI does work like this... I would actually disagree with you here. You know that if your statement was true, the current UI wouldn't work at all and nobody would be able to surf the market. There's a reason why the old UI is in with the new.
I kinda got where you were going with the last part of your post, but really, it wasn't as clear as I'd need to respond. You were saying that we should have separated Incarna from doing anything else in station? That path is WAY unoptimal at the current time for many reasons.
CCP Manifest Public Relations and Social Media|| Iniquitous Brute |
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CCP Manifest
C C P
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Posted - 2011.06.12 13:27:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Soden Rah SOME MORE STUFF.
I/we have no idea whether you have read any of our feedback... Everyone's feedback has been read either by someone on the team itself OR distilled and passed along by our wonderful community team. Responding to everyone would be counterproductive to actually producing.
Basically I was asking that when testing features on the test server more of a dialogue exist between you [CCP] and us [the testers] for our mutual benefit. You are right, we need more dialogue there and our testing team has realized that.
However we have yet to see any improvement... Improvement is in the eye of the beholder. There are obviously many conflicting feedbacks and wishes expressed during testing.
Also upfront info, possibly in devblog form detailing what isn't YET in the build but will be later to reduce the 'why is this not in yet' posts While that would be nice, I don't think it's necessary. Our company shows you guys a LOT more than pretty much any other company. This peek behind the curtain isn't for everyone though, so I always try to suggest that anyone prone to dissatisfaction with designs should avoid test servers entirely and just wait till deployment.
Some stuff about organizing feedback and feature development changes. We can probably do a better job at this in efforts towards the things you mentioned, you are right.
CCP Manifest Public Relations and Social Media|| Iniquitous Brute |
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.12 14:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
That's ok, but you could have, like the rest of the station, just put it behind a door that wont open yet till you get it done... That's where it is right now...
I understand that this might not be possible in the first build, but you have to understand that Incarna and CQ is almost useless and unusable until the UI does work like this... I would actually disagree with you here. You know that if your statement was true, the current UI wouldn't work at all and nobody would be able to surf the market. There's a reason why the old UI is in with the new.
I kinda got where you were going with the last part of your post, but really, it wasn't as clear as I'd need to respond. You were saying that we should have separated Incarna from doing anything else in station? That path is WAY unoptimal at the current time for many reasons.
the other thread is here btw ;-)
ok for the first bit, sorry I should have been more clear, the rest of the station is behind a door that wont open, the pod is down some stairs under the balcony.. what I meant was if you didn't have time to make a pod room, you didn't have to tack the pod onto the balcony, you could have made another door that didn't open that would eventually lead to the pod room.
Second part, The unusablity is with the 'new' UI, in that you have to minimise/close all/most of your open windows to be able to walk to the new UI buttons which then open up more windows that cover it up again. If your doing things that involve moving things between windows it makes it very awkward trying to open them up with the new UI... so you just end up using the old one. This makes the New UI almost totally pointless, as having both together does impinge on performance, and one of them is made totally redundant by the other. I understand you are planning to work on the new UI, but my point is until that work is done, its just a curiosity, not a functioning tool.
Ok for the third point I obviously need to explain better what I am talking about... so here goes.
At the moment CQ is performing as our old hanger, and as the first step into Incarna.
To do this, and keep everyone just trying to refit their ships 'happy'. CQ has to have exactly the same functionality as the hanger. In fact you have been stressing the point that you believe it does achieve this (barring ship spinning). It also, needs to function as Incarna with whatever new features and functionality that has as well. My premise is that those two things are not always if at all mutually compatible. If you let us keep the old hanger view and then make CQ happen separately and after docking. then it doesn't have to function exactly like the old hanger, because the old hanger is already doing it. Which leaves you free to choose exactly how much of the old hanger functionality, and whatever other things we can access is available and in what way in CQ/Incarna. At the moment you are committed to making it exactly the same as we can't not enter CQ on docking. This means you are limited in your choices as to what functionality we have in CQ... you are committed to all of it. Now you could chose too give us all the exact same functionality, but I think that's a mistake...
From an RP perspective, we are supposed to dislike leaving our pods, where we achieve everything we want with mear thoughts, but sometimes there are some things that just can't be done from in our pods, sometimes because its a deal so shady that no electronic trace can be allowed to exist... So we are forced to leave our pods and venture out into the messy, cold, smelly and SLOW station interiors, to perform our dirty deeds.
Continued next post.... __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.12 14:10:00 -
[49]
From an RP perspective, we are supposed to dislike leaving our pods, where we achieve everything we want with mear thoughts, but sometimes there are some things that just can't be done from in our pods, sometimes because its a deal so shady that no electronic trace can be allowed to exist... So we are forced to leave our pods and venture out into the messy, cold, smelly and SLOW station interiors, to perform our dirty deeds.
To reflect this, I would like to see you actually having to walk places to achieve stuff, so I can't be sitting at a bar say, get a call to join in defending the corp pos, and just vanish into thin air teleporting to my pod. I have to walk/run all the way back... so when I leave my pod I really feel the separation, every step away from it is a step I will have to take back.
Also to do things like access the market I might have to go to my market terminal, or remember to have with my my portable tablet computer... The idea being that there are things that you can only do in stations, that tempt me to leaving my pod... but it comes at a price.
This only works if CQ and the Hanger are not one thing.
This is what I mean when I say that linking the two reduces your options and limits your design. (there are also aesthetic concerns that people want different functionality depending on if they are looking at it as a station interior or as Incarna.)
Also by linking them in this way, by using the in space UI while walking around, you mean that any change to the in space UI affects the In Incarna UI, and vica verca. as they have contradictory design needs and imperatives this creates conflict that need not exist.
I hope that has made my position clearer. __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.12 14:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
If it is going to be so buggy, why....? You know we aren't planning on releasing anything buggy, right? Just because it's complicated doesn't mean that it will be bug-riddled. So far our internal tests point towards it as being fine and having no appreciable technical difference from the current way of doing things--with the exception of multiple accounts on the same machine. More on that later..
heh, yes I do appreciate, that. However as acknowledged in the VDB trying to hunt down all the bugs that will occur when 60k people simultaneously try to use it on different machines... plus experience... I can't remember a patch with no bugs in it. This isn't a criticism just a fact of life, you can't QA everything. My point was, that given so many excellent arguments for making CQ separate from the Hanger, and given that if you make the hanger and CQ the same and it does have bugs, (which it will). Anyone with those bugs will likely have trouble every time they dock, rather than just if they tried to use the new Incarna feature. And this will apply to Every UI/Incarna patch from now on, as the two are tied together so what effects one effects the other. Anyhow looking forward to the dev blog :-)
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Also if as in the backstory our characters are deeply paranoid about leaving the pod, due to fear of assassination, do they leave their pods on the end of a gantry in full view of the rest of the hanger, with no shower, towel soft furnishing or privacy...
My understanding of the backstory (I haven't read ALL the chronicles) is that capsuleers are for the most part, existent in a more exclusive part of the station from the regular Joe. Stations are also relatively safe, being as they have "airport-like" security, so fear of assassination should be at a minimal.
Well i did say paranoid ;-) anyhow, the hangers are many miles across, giving many tens of miles of interior surface, trying to spot someone with a super advanced telescopic riffle somewhere in all that would be very hard. Plus slimy bare feet/knees on hard metal grate?
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Instead of the nice sealed private room with creature comforts as seen in the excellent fanfest trailer from last year? One step at a time!
Bad WIS pun detected __________________________________________________
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.06.12 17:18:00 -
[51]
If implementing Incarna is like "changing the engine at 200 m/h", then why did you decide to make it mandatory, breaking both the game and a sense of immersion for many of your players?? ... If you like choice please support this topic in the Assembly Hall. Thanks.
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Jacque Cruix
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Posted - 2011.06.12 19:51:00 -
[52]
People who don't like or can't stand change probably shouldn't be playing a game like this that will only be iterated upon and not replaced with an Eve II.
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Melisandra Palenis
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Posted - 2011.06.13 10:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Originally by: J Kunjeh Goood stuff. More video Dev Blogs please!
we have a lot more planned :)
You had better be quick as it is out in 9 days....... but I do understand if that was just you trying to give hope to the players. Personally I don't believe we will see anything substantial, as usual, until after all the patching that this new "feature" will provide is complete.
My prediction Extended DT on 21 June will overrun by 12 hours 22 Jun a quick patch to allow people to actually play 23 Jun a new patch to patch what the first patch broke 25 Jun another patch Then weekly patches until August to try and actually make it all work.......
Not being pessimistic or whining just going on the past performance of major patches.... content release... expansions.... something like that. Shame you guys didn't stay with the excellence theme from last year as you haven't quite got there yet.
Best of luck though and I hope you prove me wrong.
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Fulmar Muse
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.13 14:09:00 -
[54]
How large is the patch?... I only have 6GB left with the ISP im with atm, and contract is up on the 26th
"Keep on doin what you doin, do it gud.. "
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nicholas aengel
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Posted - 2011.06.14 06:08:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Manifest Stations are also relatively safe, being as they have "airport-like" security, so fear of assassination should be at a minimal.
I remember a couple of years ago at Sydney airport, where someone was beaten to death with one of those queue-line bollard-pole-things shortly after they came off the plane. You're not convincing me of the place being secure CCP
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BugraT WarheaD
Astromechanica Federatis
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Posted - 2011.06.14 07:10:00 -
[56]
I must admit that all the things that Soden points here makes sense. I was also really disappointed to se that the "CQ test for Incarna" is more a beta than a full release, the worst thing i see is that :
Quote: Will we get all 4 races CQ's on launch? As soon a possible after the 21.
Srsly ? We have a really unfinished expansion coming out ... But even that part is unfinished ?
I've still faith in CQ but please, we want a full expansion with lots of features and full of cool stuffs, even if it's released in 6 months rather than 6 days.
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Mickey Simon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2011.06.14 13:27:00 -
[57]
After having seen CQ for the first time the other week on Sisi, my main gripe is that there's no reason for the new interface.
Everything it enables me to do, I can already do, and I can already do it faster and more easily from the current interface.
What's happened is you've decreased the usability, made it harder for people to get in and out of stations and use station services, and have a really fancy interface that is kind of pointless.
The UI as it stands is ok. I'm sure you could improve the UX of it given enough time, but the move to holographic interfaces that you need to move to in the context of a station where you're half the time scrambling to find the right fittings so you can undock and join the fight again doesn't fit.
There's no reason for me, or many others, to ever use the walking in stations part of Incarna, and that frustrates me.
I'd love to own a bar and chill with my mates. I'd love to play minigames within stations. I'd love you to add something new to the game that increases my experience. As it stands, you've given me something a little nicer to look at while I'm docked, but I can't spin my ship anymore.
Given the only reason I'd ever want to leave my ship is to, well, do something in station for a while, instead of ejecting me from my ship automatically, give me the option to disembark. Only then should you load the Incarna environment. Otherwise, give me the docking/undocking that I'm accustomed to. Please?? :3
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Travis J Penken
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:57:00 -
[58]
Making Incarna non optional made me not resub my accounts.
Dont ask for stuff, maybe the developpers will make it optional at some point, if so, i'll be back.
/bye
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.06.15 17:22:00 -
[59]
I'm a big fan of the Sci-Fi simulator idea of Eve. I can clearly see Eve become much more than just a flying in space game and appreciate the efforts in expanding the game with new things to make life in eve feel more REAL.
But there's the problem with CQ... Also being a fan of the lore... Being a powerful pod pilot, not needing to leave the ship "EVER" makes the forced exit in CQ seem like a plot-breaking flaw! The flaw isn't that they can... Because they do! But in most cases, only reluctantly as the experience is described to be long and painful. There's also the added layer that pod pilots are much weaker and much more vulnerable in human form than when controlling a ship through the pod.
Now, from one moment to another, ALL pod pilots decide to exit their pods every time they chose to dock their ships...
Where's the immersion of the immortal demi-gods of space living decades at a time in their pods? The fear and discomfort of leaving the goo? The trailer at fanfest showed a man, puking out goo in his chamber feeling disoriented and lost... with subtitles revealing the disgust the pod-pilot has for the human form and how he hates having to exit the pod but MUST in order to remain disconnected from the NeoCom for all sorts of shady deals.
Remember, Incarna is about getting the pod pilots BACK to the station... An invitation to which they don't necessarily accept willingly.
In my vision of incarna as it was presented to us in VIDEOs and LORE: -Pod Pilot docks his ship in the station as per normal. -Pod Pilot needs to make a deal (High stakes illegal poker game?) or otherwise expresses the wish to disembark (Strip club? Feels the need to eat using his digestive system for once? Just wants to stretch his legs or even take some time off with the GF?) -Pilot then detaches the pod and gets transferred inside the station. -BAM! The neocom flickers and deactivates. -The connections to the camera drones go completely dark. -Total silence, disconnected from the world, it's dark and scary. -FLUSH! The goo gets released as light enters the pod as it opens, blinding white light increases the discomfort of the pod pilot even more. -The goo is released from the lungs and the pod pilot takes a few minutes to gather his senses. -He then reaches for a towel gets cleaned up and gets dressed... -He is now just a piece of flesh... A form which a normal pod pilot hates, a vulnerable state where he is not all powerful, where his thoughts do not control a massive space-faring war machine. -From there on, he ventures into the bowels of the station and starts his mischief.
But now what we have is this: -Pod pilot needs to dock for changing ammunition and drones, as well as load a few M3 of cargo. -Pod pilots exits ship and goes to his quarters???!??! -If it were me i'd just order people on the docks to transfer the items to my ship. Never would I want to go through de-podding just for that... There's no need to do so! Especially when that experience is painful and long! -Even had it been a non-pilot captain who can just walk off the ship, he wouldn't leave the ship for something this trivial.
Immersion Immersion Immersion... CQ is NOT good enough, it pokes more holes in the immersion than it currently offers opportunities. Fix the lore or fix the CQ as they currently are not compatible! This is almost a deal breaker for me. It's hard to make something such as CQ, but if the goal with CQ is to make the ultimate sci-fi universe then at least makes THAT part make sense with the lore! ESPECIALLY if the fix is extremely EASY and involves just adding a disembark button when docked in the station hangar.
And don't get me started about all the problems it solves with the people complaining about CQ for performance reason (Dual boxing, quicker refit, disparity in performance on HIGH settings in and out of stations...)
Make your life easyer, just do it! Add the disembark button (One of the ONLY shortcuts in design that players actually WANT)
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.06.15 21:09:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Di Mulle on 15/06/2011 21:09:27
Originally by: Nerodon Edited by: Nerodon on 15/06/2011 17:32:17 Why do you INSIST we get out of our pods against the better judgement of your own lore??
I may think about 3 possible reasons.
1. Sad one. They are unconfident about their product. If they would be confident, then they can even hide an option to enter CQ anywhere deep inside UI, yet people would still rush to see it, spread the word, then even more players will hurry to push that "get out of a pod" button. Besides, tbh, it is really a good way to introduce newbies to EVE (performance issues aside). But immersion-wise, they should also be directed to the procedure you (and many others) have described.
2. Ugly one. When you will be thrown into CQ 100th time, you - hopefully - may finally decide to buy some underpants for RL cash.
3. Because it is CCP.
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