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Escucha Me
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Posted - 2011.06.13 03:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Escucha Me on 13/06/2011 03:31:41 It'd be just great if my t2 hulk that runs upwards of 200mil to acquire not counting getting the thing fit...wasn't able to be ganked in empire by an orca dropping 3 -8.0 or worse sec status pirates who then want me to pay them rent...on empire space. The ship is t2...either give it a couple more slots so you can fit it up for mining and give it a tank at the same time...or just give it a thicker tank. That or fix the bot problem so mining is profitable enough to afford losing hulks in empire space. anyways...who wants my stuff? |
Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.06.13 03:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Corina''s Bodyguard on 13/06/2011 03:35:10 Edited by: Corina''s Bodyguard on 13/06/2011 03:33:34 Edit: well, you didn't have content.
No non combat ship should be able to take 3 heavy combat ships for too long. They are designed to take the expected enemy (belt rats) and do so easily, even in .4. |
Escucha Me
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Posted - 2011.06.13 03:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Escucha Me on 13/06/2011 03:37:44 right...but...3 cruisers with t1 guns? and mind you...this is in empire...so theyve got like 5 seconds...should be able to tank them for that time when your ship cost 10 times what all three of theirs cost |
Samuel Caldara
Tera Incognita Cascade Associates
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:23:00 -
[4]
Ehh your both right and wrong... I do think the Hulk needs an extra ~50 pg. As it is it can't fit t1 strips and medium shield booster. It DOESN'T need more slots, its fine as is.
Using this character's skills I was able to finagle a t1 strip hulk that can tank 300 DPS omni-damage (yes a little eft action). It is possible to tank three cruisers for long enough for Concord to kill them. But you have to be using T1 strips. There should definitely be a tradeoff between mining power and tank. You shouldn't be able to omni-tank effectively with t2 strips but it should be able to mount a good defense with t1's....
And if your giving away your stuff I'll take it.
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Escucha Me
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:57:00 -
[5]
Yeah no, not giving away my stuff necessarily lol...if anything....even without giving hulks the ability to fit a proper full yield mining fit on top of having a slightly better tank...fix orcas so they can't haul combat ships around and drop combat right on top of someone in empire...I'm fine with not being 100% safe in empire...but the people who want to gank should have to work a little harder at it...few t1 ships really shouldn't be able to demolish such an expensive t2 ship before concord can smoke them in empire...especially when someone is actually doing the work to fill the bottom of the food chain instead of running a bot.
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Digital Messiah
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Posted - 2011.06.13 04:58:00 -
[6]
I have never actually compared the hulks % upgrade as a T2 variant to other T2 variants. I have also had to much to drink to do such a thing. If someone else would be so kind . Now where did I put the rum?
Quote: Don't Panic
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Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.06.13 05:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Escucha Me right...but...3 cruisers with t1 guns? and mind you...this is in empire...so theyve got like 5 seconds...should be able to tank them for that time when your ship cost 10 times what all three of theirs cost
It can.
[Hulk, Hulk] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
What 3 Cruisers put out 10000 Dmg each in 5 Seconds?
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miniCarl
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Posted - 2011.06.13 06:25:00 -
[8]
As a miner, I oppose this motion
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Escucha Me
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Posted - 2011.06.13 06:43:00 -
[9]
Sure you can fit them to survive but then you're stuck killing your yields and cargo space
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Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.06.13 06:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Escucha Me Sure you can fit them to survive but then you're stuck killing your yields and cargo space
Can you salvage these better yeilds and cargo space from your wreck? If it was worth it not to tank it then you should be able to afford a new one. If you can not, try tanking the next one.
A Tanked Hulk makes more then a Dead Hulk.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.06.13 07:22:00 -
[11]
A miner rohk wouldnt have fared any better. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 3APR11
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.13 07:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 13/06/2011 07:27:33
Two things:
1.
Originally by: Escucha Me 3 cruisers with t1 guns? and mind you...this is in empire...so theyve got like 5 seconds... [I] should be able to tank them for that time when your ship cost 10 times what all three of theirs cost
Repeat after me: Bigger is not always better. Likewise, more expensive is not always better.
If being in bigger and more expensive ship meant that you were better than anyone else who wasn't in something of similar value then no one would fly anything other than T2 fitted battleships and/or capital ships. For a T2 ship to be killed by a small group of T1 ships is not unheard of and is actually quite common. Again, the same goes for size.
and 2.
Originally by: Escucha Me Sure you can fit them to survive but then you're stuck killing your yields and cargo space
You take some, you give some... you can't have it all. This is what they refer to in-game as "risk to reward" ratio.
If you tank up your ship to proof it against s gank then you gain more safety but at the cost of lower material intake (and thus income). If you mod your ship to increase material intake (for higher income) then you increase your risk of becoming a victim of a ganking. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Escucha Me
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Posted - 2011.06.13 07:54:00 -
[13]
As counterpoint to risk reward arguement and understanding the ships fill different roles, a raven costing 60% as much approximately can fit a full tank and still achieve 80-90% of its dps potential. Sure you won't pull a whole mission with 4 bcs and a target painter but given attention, you can easily roll through. Still think the hulk shouldn't have to sacrifice close to half of its production capability to avoid being what amounts to one shot straight through structure
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.13 08:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Escucha Me As counterpoint to risk reward arguement and understanding the ships fill different roles, a raven costing 60% as much approximately can fit a full tank and still achieve 80-90% of its dps potential. Sure you won't pull a whole mission with 4 bcs and a target painter but given attention, you can easily roll through. Still think the hulk shouldn't have to sacrifice close to half of its production capability to avoid being what amounts to one shot straight through structure
Bear in mind that the Raven is a combat ship. It is designed to take damage and deal it. Anything outside of those two things and the Raven will not do so well.
The Hulk on the other hand has but a singular purpose; to mine. It is not meant to be in combat situation and not meant to take damage or deal it. It simply does better what its T1 counterpart, the Covetor, already does but better. That's what you paid for. An extra 20 to 40% efficiency. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Escucha Me
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Posted - 2011.06.13 08:42:00 -
[15]
If you're stuck throwing away all that gain to avoid being a target for griefers who don't have the marbles to go have a fair fight with someone then the case is made for just not flying a hulk isn't it?
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.13 08:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Escucha Me If you're stuck throwing away all that gain to avoid being a target for griefers who don't have the marbles to go have a fair fight with someone then the case is made for just not flying a hulk isn't it?
Again, two things:
1. There is no such thing as a "fair fight" in EvE. Anyone (including you) is allowed to use any advantage you can think up (short of violating the EULA) to turn the odds of any situation in your favor.
2. It IS worthwhile to mine in a Hulk... you just have to make yourself "less of a target" (by not fitting expensive things and/or tanking yourself such that it would cost too much to be profitable to suicide-gank) or go to places where the risk of "being found" is lower (hint: there are a lot of 'roids in missions and gravametric sites).
The bottom line is that if you don't spend at least SOME effort or make SOME sacrifices in keeping yourself safe then someone else WILL take advantage of your lax attitudes and capitalize on it. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
impli
Singularity. Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.13 09:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Escucha Me Edited by: Escucha Me on 13/06/2011 03:37:44 right...but...3 cruisers with t1 guns? and mind you...this is in empire...so theyve got like 5 seconds...should be able to tank them for that time when your ship cost 10 times what all three of theirs cost
Hulk haz good shield tank .. small shield boster with amply and you should . if your skill is good tank those 3 t1 cruisers ... btw with those hulk setup I tank 0.1 rats .. very easely ...
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.06.13 09:56:00 -
[18]
A hulk can have as much tank as a BC, but you must fit tanking mods. I've ganked my share of hulks, the reason it's so easy is people set them up for optimal mining ratehr than survival. Fit for survival and you'll rarely have a problem. You'll make 10-20% less ore, but you won't die typically. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.14 02:02:00 -
[19]
A Covetor is not profitable for gankers because of its relatively low cost, resulting in a wreck 6M worth tops, which doesn't cover the expenses and effort in almost all cases. A Hulk is very profitable for gankers because of its extremely high cost, resulting in a wreck 50M worth at minimum, which easily covers both the expenses and effort needed to organize an alpha kill, in almost all cases.
Yes, you can tank a Hulk well enough for it to be unprofitable to gank. But the problem starts right here: if you do so, the overall efficiency difference between Hulk and Covetor will become almost indiscernible, while they will remain 180M apart in cost. Which means that you either pimp your hisec Hulk for mining efficiency, or you use Covetor. ___ Remove insurance payouts for concord kills Make wardecs expensive and declinable Make SS go -1.0 per offense Remove L4 agents from hisec Allow non-corp hisec POS and moon mining |
sYnc Vir
Caldari Wolfsbrigade ShadowWolves.net
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Posted - 2011.06.14 02:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: sYnc Vir on 14/06/2011 02:42:42 Edited by: sYnc Vir on 14/06/2011 02:37:23 Edited by: sYnc Vir on 14/06/2011 02:36:52 [Hulk] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Survey Scanner II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Plagioclase Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Plagioclase Mining Crystal II Modulated Strip Miner II, Plagioclase Mining Crystal II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Without an Orca,
EHP 27,835 8000 Cargohold 1302 Yeild
With an Orca using The two good mining mods and the shield resist mod.
EHP 31.644 8000 space 2020 yield
each stats without drones.
31K should be enough. Note unless your willing to use a T2 power rig, you will need the Power Impant. No less than the PG4 or use the pricey shield extender, but that lowers your ehp.
EDIT, cost of ship 233m in EFT.
Edit, also note if you use an orca you can change your fit in space, so when someone warps in thats alittle shadey you can quickly change.
This does mean no mining afk.
Though why Gankers dont just shot the miners that are shield boosting. So much easier, and you can just use 5 thrashers for it. So its super cheap. ... I fly carelessly, without focus and semi afk all the time. ... |
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Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.14 02:38:00 -
[21]
Now please compare it with the same hi slot setup for Covetor. ___ Remove insurance payouts for concord kills Make wardecs expensive and declinable Make SS go -1.0 per offense Remove L4 agents from hisec Allow non-corp hisec POS and moon mining |
Syncs Alt
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Posted - 2011.06.14 02:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Syncs Alt on 14/06/2011 02:47:14 Edited by: Syncs Alt on 14/06/2011 02:46:56 Edited by: Syncs Alt on 14/06/2011 02:46:24
Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga Now please compare it with the same hi slot setup for Covetor.
no were near the tank of course, yeild with 1756 without 1132
But does cost 200m less.
Edit if you're cheap fly the T1, if you're not,have an orca and dont sit afk most of the time. Use the hulk.
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